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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


It's great when something in a sci-fi story is written as being a horrible piece of garbage. It creates complications that can show off the depth of the setting. Why something is bad, why it's still in use. It's funny. So many writers will talk your ear off about how cool their stuff is, it's refreshing when they go the other way.

Anyway, this is the only thing I remember offhand.

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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The only gundam I know of that is depicted as just garbage that can't win a fight is this one.



Can't fight, but every year it makes it to the finals of the gundam tournament because nobody can find it when it's disguised as a windmill.

I liked how the Millenium Falcon was a piece of garbage in the movies. Luke poo poo-talks it at first sight, and it spends the bulk of Empire Strikes Back on cinderblocks with engine trouble. But then the EU considered it some kind of gold standard for a ship.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I think most engagements with mobile suits involve fairly small numbers of units compared to how many tanks and jets the modern military fields. That probably helps for maintenance logistics.

The space scenes of most gundam shows are fairly realistic aside from the giant robots. There's no artificial gravity aside from the centrifugal force inside the colonies, so there's all these people floating around and having to use handholds to scoot along hallways.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Can I count the garbage camera or film that they used for the original Star Trek that couldn't get the color green right so it came out yellow?

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.




Taintrunner posted:

Yes... and no? In a weird way, it's actually kinda impressive that some smuggler can throw a bunch of bullshit into a civilian freighter and turn it into a top of the line smuggler ship unlike anyone had ever seen. The elevator in my apartment went out this morning when I tried to buy some more whiskey, so I'm partially bias, buuuut - in a way, it actually fills in the "realness" of the worldspace by implying that the engineering of space travel in the world was still a very dangerous yet experimental place.

It makes Luke's desires and aspirations of being a legendary starfighter pilot much more accessible and relatable, as well as giving the mechanics of this galaxy some real weight to it, and much like The Expanse, it makes the stakes feel so much more tangible.

That's not the story that the EU has endorsed though. They say the words "heavily modified" a few times, but there's never actually been a story about modifying ships much, and there's a whole slew of transports throughout the EU that are armed right out the doors of the factory, so it's not clear what is actually modified about the Falcon.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


For American shows and movies, they're not so much about quarries and instead they prefer to film within the 30 mile zone where union work is a lot cheaper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy16KFzM4XU

Of course, with space colonization, it's plausible that only a very small area of the planet is colonized and the rest of the planet is unpopulated, so there basically is a very small area of the planet worth visiting.

And then there's space colonies, where it's a very neat idea to make a giant installation floating out in the void, but seldom do works make a reason why people built and live in them in the first place. The biggest reasons I've seen are using them as a hub for transport without having to enter in and out of a gravity well and as a platform for space mining, but otherwise, most people are built for living on planets and would be better off to continue living on the planet.

Babylon 5 was made to be a transport hub and a neutral meeting place. The Gundam franchise I don't think ever clarifies their reasons, which it seems relevant because all those space colonies are always wanting independence. Sonic Adventure 2 had a space colony that was just abandoned for some reason.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


All the logistical issues with a city planet are the same as the logistical issues of a city in general. People value physical proximity to eachother enough to overcome the difficulties, and it's not that much of a stretch to think that in the some huge galaxy-spanning empire would have a massive planet-sized capital city shipping in food from other planets just like how Rome shipped in most of its food from Egypt.

You also in the real world see powerful cities fall into decay once the money starts to dry up, and they're left struggling to survive, dying from the same aspects that once made them so great. Most notably, Venice is now constantly flooding from being built on stilts in the sea, which was what once made it so powerful in the medieval world.

Droyer posted:

Gundam has "overpopulation but terraforming isn't a thing" as a reason and in SA2 the colony was a weapons research station that got shut down because the government grew suspicious of the head researcher.

Overpopulation doesn't seem to really jive with the fact that there's so much empty land for the Gundam to fight in and for White Base to scoot across on Earth in Universal Century. At least G Gundam has the excuse that Earth is all hosed up from war and still being used as a giant fighting arena for mobile suits.

I think Gundam Seed had a lot of empty space too, but all I remember about Gundam Wing's earth terrain is there being a bunch of cliffs over the sea.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I mean, if you're gonna call out sci-fi technology just for being scientifically implausible without absurd power and scale requirements, you'll never be happy with anything.

How about Plasmids from Bioshock? Radical genetic engineering that drives you insane along with granting superpowers, and in order to maintain the supply of slug juice, you gotta brainwash little girls to harvest and process it, but to protect the little girls, you gotta brainwash people and strap them into a diver suit.

Why did any of that sound like a good idea?

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


GD_American posted:

Speaking of lovely pieces of garbage tech, what's the closest sci-fi analogue to the M2 Bradley

I couldn't really think of anything that had that kind of development hell, but there is the Dreadclaw, which has some similarities.



So on the left, is the Dreadclaw, the more advanced version of the space marine drop pod on the right in Warhammer 40k. These things have the primary purpose of taking an entire group of space marines from a ship up in orbit all the way down to the surface of a planet, ready to fight. A normal drop pod can take 12, the dreadclaw can fit 10.

What the dreadclaw has going for it is that it has flight engines that can take it all the way back up to the ship to get a fresh batch of marines. Theoretically it can go back and forth, ferrying marines to the battlefield. It's also armed and capable of providing fire support. It's got that sort of jack of all trades thing that the Bradley had going on.

The catch is that the dreadclaw had a mysteriously high rate of accidents killing its crew that nobody could really figure out until the Horus Heresy happened and it was revealed that something about their design was literally evil and their "machine spirits" were malevolently trying to kill their occupants. Maybe they did go through development hell back during the dark age of technology and manifested their creators' frustrations. Then the dreadclaws joined the heresy by going to 100% fatalities for the Imperium's marines, but still worked fine for chaos space marines. Or at least as well as anything the forces of chaos uses, so there's still fatalities, they just don't care.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Just remembered a total garbage ship.



So if you haven't played the game, how it works is that every ship has subsystems that can be broken, meaning that your ship loses that function until a crewmember goes into that room to fix it. The doors between rooms are those red rectangles.

If you'll notice, there are two rooms with no doors to them, meaning that once they're broken, there's no way to fix them. One is the engine, the other is the life support, so if you disable both, the ship can't escape and you can just wait until they slowly run out of air and the crew dies. You get more salvage if you just kill the crew instead of destroying the ship as well.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Hodgepodge posted:

Astrotelepathy in 40k is supposed to be like the shittiest form of communication imaginable, it just gets ignored for convenience.

Like a distress signal is received as a bad dream a random amount of time from when it was sent in a random place and relayed multiple times as the relay astropath's interpretation of the dream.

Whole astropathic choirs going insane from suddenly receiving distress signals from thousand year old wars is a thing.

It's even worse on a ship where you might lose your entire communication system to the physic echoes of some atrocity that happened a million years before humanity was born.

Pretty much everything that uses the warp is the absolute worst thing possible. Traveling through it can often have ships blink out of existence or show up a thousand years late or arrive before they left.

You need to use a giant beacon to stay on course, and those beacons attract Tyranids. The Emperor constructed a thing to steal and use the Eldar webway instead, but since it went wrong, it's now a hole into the warp that demons are trying to get through to invade Earth, and it's only kept plugged up by the Emperor's comatose body.

And if you just want to use psychic powers for fun and profit, there's a chance your head will just explode.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


It's a triplecorder, it cords thricely.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Well, he didn't exactly stay in his grave, so...

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I don't really know anything about the german air force in WW2, although I do know that the Death Star trench was taken from a movie about assaulting a Nazi dam. The empire sure doesn't have space U-Boats. German tanks were notorious for being overengineered things that kept breaking down for dumb reasons, which you could kinda interpret the AT-ATs as.

The Empire's military philosophy does seem to be "what if imperial japan had a much much bigger budget but instead of building better fighters, just made a thousand Yamatos and a few extra big Yamatos".

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Admiralty Flag posted:

I'm the Mass Effect Citadel, the product of an incredibly old and technologically advanced race

They knew how to build Mass Relays, but faster-than-walking-pace elevators eluded them

How fast do you walk straight up 5 stories?

Not faster than it takes your squadmates to have a little conversation and the next area to load I bet.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


MA-Horus posted:

On looking at a massive Martian battleship. "One of those things can kill a planet"
the best character: "Any ship can kill a planet. Just drop anvils from orbit."

Because bombing campaigns have solved every war they were involved with on their own.

General Battuta posted:

TLJ is completely consistent with all of this. The hyperspace ramming isn't even hard to explain away with some . I did a Star Wars story for a charity anthology recently and thought about dropping in an explanation but couldn't really find the wordcount. Plus it's dumb when the EU fixes stuff that doesn't need fixing!

I don't think the EU spends that much time "fixing" things, I think what they end up doing most is taking things from the movies and wiggling them around until they can be applied to whatever story they're writing, because a lot of licensed works outside the main body of work of an IP need to constantly reference and repurpose elements from the original story instead of coming up with something new. You wind up getting the feeling that the story is more being written through rules-lawyering of the setting, and the setting feels smaller for just being a bunch of remixes of a small amount of elements.

Which honestly Last Jedi felt it was doing a lot of the time.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Tulip posted:

The funniest thing to me about Star Wars ships is that SDs don't seem to be built for any particular purpose. They're comically undergunned for their size, they have a fighter contingent but it doesn't seem primary, and they have a ton of AT-ATs but they're battleships. I think they're just converted from civilian ships.

Most of the interpretations I've seen of Star Destroyers have them totally covered in guns that aren't fully modelled and rendered. Like in Rogue Squadron, you fly across them, and there's an absolute forest of lasers coming out of little nubs that don't look much like guns at all.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Tulip posted:

Looking at Wookiepedia, I do find something pretty funny: the ISD has 37,000 crew (so, 10x as much as an Iowa, sure), but also is designed to hold 9,700 storm troopers and a similar number of passengers on top of that, with enough supplies to last for 2 years, including water. Which is bizarre - ISDs have extremely good strategic speed, they shouldn't need to operate independently for 2 years. The ship is ready to just gently caress around for 2 years with 1/3 of the people on board not actually manning engines or guns. This thing's a war-themed luxury cruise line.

Also this is one of the funniest things I've read

"War-themed luxury cruise line" is an interesting thing to call them, considering how the rebel Mon Calamari cruisers were originally cruise ships complete with elaborate artificial water features that were repurposed for warfare.

Designing the Star Destroyers to be able to work independently long-term was an odd decision, considering how there's so much about the Empire having been designed against people being able to operate independently, it's a literal inverse of the design ethos of the Tie Fighter. It sure came in handy for after Endor when Imperial remnants needed to be self-sufficient to carve out their own little dominions. Seems like it goes against the emperor's supposed paranoia about his own military turning against him.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Tulip posted:

"A top priority for Star Wars ships is that they be good for war tourists" would explain the gigantic viewports and extremely close range fighting.

Star Tours

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


"Honor" is kind of an arbitrary thing, because if you actually had rules against slaughtering the helpless that you stuck to, you could never form an empire in the first place. The only honorable way to fight is to attack enemies that are stronger than you, and then spare all orphans.

Klingons cloak because at some point a script planned for the Romulans swapped in Klingons instead, and ever since, the Romulans never really could distinguish themselves because every attempt to define them got traded off to another species.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Schadenboner posted:

Literally, what are Romulans supposed to be? They're like bad Vulcans?

I never "did" TOS and only half-remember TNG?

The Romulans were one of the earlier episodes where they were established as having fought a war with the Federation in the old bygone days of space travel, after which they had an uneasy peace with them ever since that could vanish at any moment. There was also the whole mystery element where apparently they were a lost colony of Vulcans, meaning that the Vulcans have all this forgotten history that would then never get explored ever.

The Klingons wound up taking their place as the cold war analogue in the movies though, because I guess they got more recognition from their actual onscreen war that they had with the Federation in their first episode. The Romulans took back the role in TNG, but between there being some weird rule against bringing back original series aliens and the cold war being over, that didn't get far. There was a whole thing where the Romulans were supposed to be the Klingons' most hated enemy mucking in Klingon politics, but that wound up being superfluous because the Klingons hate everybody. The most charismatic Romulan in TNG got a job on Babylon 5 playing a character with a similar antagonistic setup but a lot more depth.

Eventually TNG decided that they wanted to a long-term cold war narrative with some species on the Federation's frontier, so instead of using the Romulans who had that whole bit, they invented the Cardassians and wrote that they had a recent offscreen war with the Federation (the Federation technically lost, but nobody talks about that) that O'Brien was a veteran of. Instantly more depth and personality than the Romulans, and to add insult to injury, the first Cardassian actor who wound up defining the species was the first Romulan actor on TNG, Marc Aleimo.

Then the Romulans didn't do much during DS9 (even tho they made a pretty nice meme) while the Dominion pulled off more success with mucking with Klingon politics than they ever did. Something weird happened in one of the TNG movies and then came along JJ Abrams and their planet died, which meant very little relevance for Romulans thereafter. Which I feel like that resembles how in one of the movies the Klingons got their demise predicted after their moon went Chernobyl.

It's a cross between other aliens kept on being more interesting and since the Romulans were such a big important thing, no writers felt comfortable adding their own weird new details until it was too late.

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Why does it seem like every other empire in Trek has gigantic gently caress off ships compared to the Federation?

I don't know what you're talking about, pretty much every alien ship is about the same size as the Enterprise because working with an actual size disparity is a more complicated and expensive effect.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Well that looks like another case of whoever writes down the stats for sci fi ship size is just talking out of their rear end, because every time they're on the screen at the same time, they're about the same size.



I don't know how much of that volume translates to systems/engines/crew space/empty space/elevators, but I've never really understood the spatial relationship between any of the sets and the models. Star Trek makes a lot of bold decisions with its ship designs and then never really tries justifying any of them.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


It's basically the exact same as how Target wound up leaking a hundred million customers' personal information because they didn't secure the internet connection for their air conditioning.

https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/target-hackers-may-have-gotten-in-through-the-air/

There are new "smart" appliances coming out all the time that basically just open more vulnerabilities in people's everyday lives for the abstract promise of a marginal amount of convenience. I think sometimes it's even made more expensive to get the non-internet options as well, because they really want to get your data.

Taintrunner posted:



imagine thinking this protects you from... the plague, a virus, uh, your lungs getting turned into swiss cheese, or uh, dying from a lack of oxygen or something

Well, it works fine in the movie. Space technology.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Maybe, but there's not really space enough on the station to hold enough ore hand off to whatever ship needs a gap that big.

Not to mention that the default Star Trek ships are already absolutely massive and the setting normally equates size with power, so it wouldn't really fit if there was just some huge as big as the enterprise.

I think the main idea behind the station size is just that it's sort of the inverse kind of design from the federation's rod-shaped space station. Star Trek ship designs are usually all about aesthetics rather than any particular mechanical purpose.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I dunno, a lot of the time in the games, things aren't connected to the internet, they're independent networks that are physically isolated from the internet so you have to walk up and find the USB port on it to monkey around with it. That's how they keep the levels isolated.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


General Battuta posted:

Given Trek technology and Trek's philosophy of "everything is insanely convenient and requires no effort" they should probably aim themselves, do some kind of sensor doohickey and just fire the beam where it needs to go.

Well if you look at most pictures of phasers firing, the beam is seldom inline with the nozzle, so obviously there's some kind of autoaim finding the target regardless of what the user is pointing at.

In reality it is the fact that as a post effect drawn on just a few frames that the effect artist doesn't really care about maintaining perfect perspective. It's a similar deal to the zat guns in Stargate that the artists sometimes forget to draw in the effect when the actors are miming out the shots in a big battle scene.

The phaser rifle in DS9 had better ergonomics but actually worse performance because fight scenes with phaser rifles tended to last forever. Also Borgs can just become immune to phasers for no real reason, just because they have even more impossible technology than Starfleet. It still hurts them if you jiggle the handle and arbitrarily mess with the settings when shooting though.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

If someone replicated a couple of M16's they could probably take over an entire starship.

Joke's on you, an M16 can only hit you if you're already wearing squibs under your clothes.

Also the angles those phasers hit clearly don't match the angle that Picard and Ryker are firing. The lasers must have taken some kind of roundabout path to catch the other old man in a pincer maneuver.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I think the idea with Star Trek is that there's no civilian ownership of ships, and the writers can't for the life of them think of anything interesting about the Federation other than the flying around the universe in spaceships thing, so everything outside of Starfleet is extremely shallow and unexplored.

THE BAR posted:

It still annoys me to no end, that the Entreprise-D doesn't have a science officer. Anything vaguely sciency is either handled by Geordi in Engineering or Crusher in Medical.

It just seems like an odd omission for an ostensible exploration vessel.

I think the idea of a generic science officer is weird and abstract. Like one person is going to be master of all scientific fields at once instead of having individual experts for individual fields.

More of a lazy conceit to centralize all exposition than a plausible position on a crew.

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Do Star Fleet ships ever drop off the children and other family members before heading to a big battle?

Timmy, daddy is very busy preparing for an important meeting at Wolf 359 tomorrow, so just keep yourself busy on the Holodeck today, ok.

They had the idea in the first episode of TNG that the civilians all live in the saucer and that part can detach and retreat somewhere safe when they get into a dangerous situation, but they never really did it again.

Which creates some kind of reasoning for the weird, weird design of federation ships, but then again, it's not clear how the saucer is supposed to move without the engine bits. It's all weird.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


TNG was also a century after space whales almost wiped out all of humanity. Not intentionally, just because their automated probe's signal somehow had the capacity to destroy the planet somehow.

Which actually fits in with the idea that was in the movies and early TNG that a comprehensive scan of the ship was a pretty traumatic thing that could cause real damage if it wasn't calibrated right. That was another idea that was dropped because it's easier for the plot to just scan everything left and right.

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

Yeah, that was the intent but the saucer separation sequence really slowed down episodes so they only did it a couple of times in the entire series. The Ent D's saucer has impulse (sublight) engines at the back but no warp engines so it's a sitting duck when separated.

Yeah, just like how they stopped using shuttles because they got so tired of the sequence where they load it up, do routine safety procedures, and launch slowed down every episode they were in.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Most mutations happen from mysterious FEV ooze instead of plain radiation though. Fallout 3 was the dumbest one, with their idea that all cars had adopted lil' nuclear reactors instead of gas, and so therefore, 200+ years after the world ended, all the parked cars will explode into a nuclear blast if you shoot them, in some areas setting off a chain reaction.

Apparently The Simpsons is credited with spreading most myths and public mistrust about nuclear power, since they love the joke of Homer almost destroying the entire town.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The best post-apocalyptic settings are the ones where the entire world has moved on from just being depressed about the old world dying anyways, because in the real-world that's what would happen. Time marches on, and all the survivors have things to do to keep survivin'. Reign of Fire is an alright example; Nausicaa is a fantastic one.

The Crypt of Shuwa seems like a more realistic take on how a long plan to restore humanity would go compared to Asimov's Foundation.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The original GECK was just a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, how-to books, and a lil' reactor to help with power generation. Kinda just a piddly tool, but better than nothing.

Fallout 3 made it different, and was kinda unclear on how it worked, but activating it automatically kills the user in the wave of rejuvenating energy. Your dad has you fetch one so he can disassemble it for his big dumb water filtration machine that he later kills himself to prevent the enclave from using to filtrate water.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The most hellish postapocalyptic world I've seen is the one where out of sheer coincidence the only thing that survived in the city was the headquarters of a life insurance company, where the survivors of the apocalypse took shelter and eventually built their new society using what they could find in the building, like training videos.

It's a dark comedy podcast.

http://www.ourfaircity.com/

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

The Vaults were never meant to save anyone. Pretty sure the Enclave was the actual plan for the re-establishment of American dominance. The Vaults, including the control vaults, were there as social experiments for the benefit of the government and Vault-Tec.

I think that prewar society was filled with multiple organizations working at cross purposes.

aphid_licker posted:

Dumb question: why are there none? Too dangerous to use if you don't have heightened force reflexes or something?

Dangerous, but also you can't make a lightsaber without a kyber crystal and it's drat near impossible (or obscenely expensive) to get a good one without some kind of force resonance helping you out.

I think there's also a thing about how being the signature weapon of an order of people with a bounty on their heads with the idea to wipe them out makes it not as much worth the effort and expense.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Sci fi often has people that fall into the same pattern of thinking as the US at Vietnam. Just keep increasing the yield on whatever ordinance you got and keep pouring it on. Eventually that will amount to victory.

And then when the characters of a story don't go with the infinite bombing strategy, nerds like to complain that they should just drop asteroids on everything.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Megillah Gorilla posted:

The only interesting thing ever done with a Death Star laser was the battering ram thing from Last Jedi.




Though it does extremely beg the question of why the gently caress did they just have something like this laying around.

I never got what that was supposed to mean that it's "death star tech", it's just a very large laser, but not as large as the laser the size of a moon.

Does that mean that the Death Star was somehow technologically unique aside from being very large? Is the little death star gun going to do something different from a very large laser? Was the very large gun on the ship in the beginning of the movie also "death star tech"?

It confers a weird about of extra-specialness upon the old movies while also distracting from what was happening in the moment.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Emrikol posted:

Miniaturized Death Star tech. It's a downscaled Death Star cannon.

A very small giant laser?

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

What does the empire have against wheels and tank treads?

Aside from just being a cool sci-fi thing, I think the implication is that there isn't much even terrain because nobody needs to build roads everywhere because most light transport hovers, so if you need something heavier, normal wheels won't work well.

Also the time they did do treads didn't work out.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


But in that movie it shot missiles instead of a laser.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The weird thing about Cardassian society is that later on the series fleshed it out as being the most extreme sort of police state that's deeply embedded into their society, but earlier on in TNG, they established that Cardassian society only was taken over by the military within living memory. I guess Gul David Warner is much older than Garak, so Garak just isn't old enough to know about pre-central command days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ3EDTYZTOU

Also to be back on topic, torture is a lovely way of getting information, so technology involving it is garbage.

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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


In Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers, there's a supercomputer at a jail called the Aequitas that has the main purpose of determining guilt, which is a weird thing, but it is a society of robots. What's lovely about it is that its password can by bypassed by a Transformer willingly dying to open it up, which both is inconvenient and not secure if you happen to run into particularly motivated attackers.

The decepticons took over the prison where it was and Overlord, their leader, tried to groom the inmates into giving their lives by forcing them to fight for the death because of the potential for propaganda that all the records of autobot warcrimes would be.

There was an autobot strikeforce sent to secure the supercomputer that had a guy who was terminally ill from having a brain-seeking bullet embedded in his skull, steadily making its way forward, but he never had the chance to give himself up because another guy quickly volunteered to die because his twin brother was getting tortured and they had one of those twin deals where they shared all sensation.

It's a real macabre contrivance to kill some characters.

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