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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Babylon 5 custom printed newspapers. Now you get your echo chamber delivered to you on physical media!

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Aren't Battletech credits effectively phone minutes from comstar?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





I just re-read The Caves of Steel for the first time in a long time and that book is just jammed pack full of stupid garbage tech.

The shittiest however has to be the rod. It's a little rod you hold in your hand and the tip grows warmer when it's pointed towards the destination it's tuned for.

This is so stupid in so many ways. I mean, to start with heat is not nearly as good a tactile response as say, vibration might be. Also why use vibration and not light?

But the main reason it's stupid is that it's supposed to help you through a warren of corridors and rooms and such to get to your destination. Getting a direct point to the room you're looking for isn't going to be all that helpful.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Taintrunner posted:

Whatís the loving difference between a hand phaser and a phaser rifle in Star Trek they seem to do the exact same thing

It's easier to be accurate with a rifle. 3 points of contact is better than 2.

Also according to the Technical Manual, the type 2 hand phaser has settings 1 to 16. The type 3 phaser rifle has similar power settings but 50% additional power reserve.

Settings are:

Light Stun
Medium Stun
Heavy Stun
Thermal Effects
Thermal Effects (But more)
Disruption Effects
Disruption Effects (Harder)
Disruption Effects (Harder Better) (This is basically the Kill setting)
Disruption Effects (Harder Better Faster)
Disruption Effects (Harder Better Faster Stronger)
Explosive/Disruption Effects
Explosive/Disruption Effects (Harder)
Explosive/Disruption Effects (Harder Better)
Explosive/Disruption Effects (Harder Better Faster)
Explosive/Disruption Effects (Harder Better Faster Stronger)
Explosive/Disruption Effects (Heavy Geological Displacement; 650m3 of rock/ore of 6.0 g/cm3 density explosively uncoupled per discharge)

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Any time you can beam security INTO a situation, you could also just beam the assholes into the brig. Or space.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Schadenboner posted:

At this point why isn't the brig literally just a transporter pattern buffer?

E: Like the containment thingy in Ghostbusters what the ConEd guy shuts off?

It takes a lot of power to run a buffer with a pattern in it. Way easier to just stick em in room then ship them to new zealand

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Also transporter buffers are literally bigger than the brig cells.

Also also, being constrained by gravity is not the only reason to build ships compact. If you build them with big open space you still need more ship to wrap around that space and inertia exists.

Tulip posted:

Spacing anybody who gets snitched on, immediately, is a very Cardassian solution.

I disagree. Cardassians love nothing more than having a show trial and would go to great lengths to bring them back so they could televise it. If anyone was to build some sort of transporter buffer prison brig to haul prisoners around it'd be them.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Tulip posted:

I was torn about the Cardassians, because Garak and the rest of the spies I'm pretty sure would just space people and the rest of Cardassia would be down with it because they're basically a society built around the ethos of 24, but it is true that they love their show trials. The question comes down to "how important is it to a show trial that the accused is alive."

There's also more reasons to not just make giant loving ships, such as shielding and construction, I just didn't want to get too exhaustive in a single parenthetical.

Which leads me to - I've been playing Hardlight Shipbreaker, and while the tech in the game is explicitly supposed to be poo poo, the really baffling ones are "universal utility keys that are disposable" and "wait why do objects in motion come to rest without an outside force"

It's very important. Their "lawyers" are there to convince the victim to confess, as it's VERY important for the rest of Cardassia see that the justice system works, and the perpetrator is sorry for his actions.

I just figure they run into the little bits and bobs floating around, and basically metal dust left over from melting metal in ton lots.

What gets me is that some aluminium goes in the processor, some goes in the furnace.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Ghost Leviathan posted:

I'm suddenly reminded of how the My Teacher Is An Alien books apparently have city-sized spaceships specifically because their FTL method only works on ships above a certain size.

I did also like in the Foundation series that the Empire forgot how to make ships small and so even a "cruiser" is like, 2 miles long, and the Foundation re-learning miniaturization is a game changer cause they've gone 20 thousand years without it.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Solkanar512 posted:

At the same time, too many shows make characters carry the stupid ball (or whatever it was called) so it can be difficult to tell if a character is being deservedly ignorant or arbitrarily ignorant. And how many times have we seen that stupid trope where conflict is generated because two characters just refuse to talk to each other for five minutes only to have the situation spiral way out of control?

"I don't have time to explain in 3 sentences what is going on, you just have to come with me"
3 days later
"aaaaa i'm dying before I can tell you what's up"

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





I don't remember them saying anything about sterilization.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Okay, the shittiest tech in Sci-Fi is the Discovery. Apparently it's made up mostly of empty space and turbolift tubes. Powered by tears and mushrooms.

It's a stupid ship and I hate it.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Wait, what did they do to dreadnaughts? Cause that was a whole thing in the EU and i'm surprised they touched it.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Tulip posted:

star destroyers are comically underarmed and oversupplied and it is very, very funny to me



60 turbolaser batteries, 60 ioncannon batteries would disagree!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Tulip posted:

That makes the imperial designers even bigger morons - this is all Legends stuff so RIP but according to what I can find, an ISD has about twice as much total ship volume dedicated to its main batteries as a WW2 battleship (the main cannons are basically the same but an ISD has 8 and a WW2 battleship would usually have four), but has fewer tie fighters than a WW2 aircraft carrier would have in fighters (72, compared to the USS Yorktown's 90).

Star Wars: there is always more and it is always worse.

WW2 Aircraft carriers also couldn't field an infantry division with armored support.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Actually the guns/length ratio on all the capital ships in this book are very similar. Star Cruisers, ISDs , Nebulon-B frigates all have .04 guns/meter. Corellian Corvette has the same rate of gun emplacements per meter length, but their emplacements are double lasers so they are the most bang for your buck.

And if we're sticking in universe, no, no one could make a ship the fraction of the size and crew but with more guns because they control almost all of the shipyards. You're saying ISDs are bad at solving a problem that doesn't exist for the empire. Actually the star cruisers DO have a fraction of the crew and they don't field divisions of troopers either. And they have the same gun to size ratio. But they're also faster and more agile, so they're a lot closer to the whole "guns wrapped around engines" ideal.

Basically you don't need a WW2 battleship in space when everyone else is fielding PT boats and jeep carriers. What you DO need however is your own carrier that can also invade a planet.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





wdarkk posted:

Star Destroyers explicitly replace the old Venator class, which carried about 420 (ha) starfighters on a smaller frame. I assume the tradeoff is in endurance: the Venator goes out, fights, comes back, but the Imperial-class spends a long time on station doing oppression.

EDIT: Legends section of wookiepedia (lol at this sourcing) says an Imperial II class can support its crew of 37,000 (!!!) and 9,700 troops for six years (!!!!) vs the Venator's 7,400 crew and 2,000 troops for two years.

Although why they need six years of supply on hand when the main base is only a couple days away at most is uh a mystery.

Astrogation in Star Wars is dumb and complicated. Basically the more well traveled a route is, the faster you can go because there's more navigation data available so you can go faster. For example, Coruscant to Bespin is 6d14h base time. So if your hyperdrive multiplyer is x1, that's how long it takes you (assuming nothing goes wrong). However Coruscant to Alderaan is 16h, and Alderaan to Bespin is 8h for a total of 1d.

Double all those times for an ISD cause their multiplier is 2. Also the longest trip I can find is Lianna to Dagobah, which is 31d15h. gthe book also references that the Millenium Falcon could go across the galaxy in a straight line in 4 months. The falcon's multiplier is .5, so that's 16 months for an ISD. And that's impossible anyway because you can't just go across in a straight line.

Also ISDs would often escort freighters and poo poo. Also if they do get a damaged hyperdrive their backup drive is a x8. So yea an ISD could very well be gone for years at a time.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Why would they not do the thing that works in order to make a ship that would be better at fighting ships that don't exist?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





frogge posted:

Where you getting those numbers from? One of the tabletop games or the star wars technical manual or something?

2nd Edition TTRPG book.

Edit: The last good one.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Trapick posted:

I haven't watched much, but I saw one where this girl got smallpox (from buried treasure or something), except it ended up not being smallpox, but anyway they had a big lockdown and the CDC was called in and poo poo, which makes sense, that's fine. But then House ends up in the room with the girl to do something and then he's like "oh no I've been exposed to smallpox" and is clearly upset/scared, but he's definitely of an age where he would have been vaccinated. So what the poo poo was up with that? Apparently even vaccination *after* exposure is really effective, so he could have just got a booster and almost certainly have been fine. So why was House so worried?

They also had the pure white room and cat suit for Wilson's gf to put her into stasis so she doesn't die (she dies)

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Foxfire_ posted:

If I were trying to justify a Star Destroyer's numbers into making sense, I'd go with that they are primarily troop transport with a splash of point defense lasers and fighters. Their main intended role would be to park over rebellious planets and be a base for occupation and anti-insurgency. Size and endurance would be so you could have a base that's less bombable by locals than a ground base.

We know Lucas wanted to base a lot of the space stuff off of wwII fighter dog fights. So ISDs being troop/fighter transports first, battle ships second, makes a lot of sense just from a meta knowledge design thing.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





SlothfulCobra posted:

It sort of makes sense to have one heavily armed mult-purpose carrier from the perspective of how the biggest threat to the Empire was surprise attacks on logistical centers, but then it does mean that most of your assets are too expensive to deploy in proportion to the problems that you need to respond to. Also might explain why Imperial command staff are always so pissed at their subordinates when they show up with the big guns. Having a Star Destroyer is proof that you're a big dog in the Empire, and all the smattering of other Imperial capital ships are weirdly shameful and pushed off to weird corners that nobody cares about.

It's a fun for writers or nerds to flesh out the niches of various ships or try dredging up obscure things out of the EU to fill a niche that they needed, but it's gotta be a bit soul-destroying to be a visual designer on one of these big projects and every time your job is mainly to replicate the same thing. Possibly because the company doesn't want to be obliged to give artists any extra credit or money and it's cheaper to pull up some old EU material.

There is value for an oppressive fascist regime for over responding to any and all threats. Also, we know they would take kids and train them, they could very well be trained aboard those ships and joined those divisions directly, like how a lot of old school mercenary companies used to pick up new meat as they went along.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Sorry, the RPG books have nothing

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Tulip posted:

They're supposed to look like and feel like Nazis, and Nazis were incompetent as hell.

Can you imagine if they built ISDs the way the nazis built panzers? loving hand crafted individual bits so parts are rarely interchangeable?

A fleet of 25,000 of those ships *WOULD* be the shittiest piece of garbage tech.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





SlothfulCobra posted:

Aren't massive battleships generally made to order? I'm not sure how interchangeable massive sections of a Star Destroyer could be.

Although I would sure love to see a story where there's some massive factory or dry-space-dock where they literally cut ships into big chunks that they swap out.

I mean, they did just lop the front off of a battleship once and weld it to one that was damaged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wisconsin_(BB-64)#Post_Korean_War_(1952%E2%80%931981)




The BB USS Wisconsin ran into the destoyer Eaton in heavy fog, sailed back to Norfolk. The incomplete BB USS Kentucky had it's front lopped off and they shipped it to Norfolk and put it on that ship.

The Eaton by the way...

was so damaged (the keel broke) that they used chains and basically ratchet strapped the bow in place to sail it to port.

But to your main point, while in WWII parts standardization is something we would laugh at today, US tanks and ships were generations of standardization ahead of the nazis.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Ghost Leviathan posted:

That is a fun one since it goes with a few caveats

There's a book series I read where FTL is weird. The ship arrives instantly, relative to the universe outside the ship. But time passes for those inside the ship. The length is proportional to how well the route is established and how long the range is.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Foxfire_ posted:

Yeah, they have shields that are presumably doing something, but both TIEs and X-wings go down to a well-aimed burst of lasers, so I don't think there's movie support for X-wings being more durable. As far as the movie goes, there's no reason to think TIEs don't also have shields that are only good vs near misses/shrapnel/whatever

In the trench run, the xwings and ywings are getting buffetted by turbolaser fire all the time. And only sometimes blowing up.

But to answer your question, xwings have 4D hull and 1D shields. TIE/In have 2D hull and no shields. Also TIEs have 2D manuverability and xwings have 3D. So the Xwings were better in every regard. Hell, Ywings have 2D manuverability.

Tulip posted:

The one significant advantage the X-wings have is internal life support - TIE pilots wear their life support while the X-wing pilots just have helmets. I'm pretty confident this is just to provide a contrast where the Rebels have faces and the Imperials are faceless.

Also xwings have hyperspace generators and tie fighters don't.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





SlothfulCobra posted:

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the novelizations said something about Ties not having shields. Or maybe one of the reference books or roleplaying guides. Otherwise, it doesn't really seem like something I'd expect Zahn to write about, so it's pretty possible the X-Wing videogame could've been the first. It was real early on in the EU and shaped a fair bit of lore.

Xwing video game was released 1993.

WEG published the TTRPG books in 1987.

Zahn's first novel in the EU was in 1991.

The WEG RPG game laid the groundwork on the EU. When Zahn was hired to write the Thrawn Trilogy, they sent him a box of WEG Star Wars books as reference material.

Between you ignoring this and the cool rear end battleship post i'm miffed!!!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Tulip posted:

I mean that's something that I'm used to hearing from EU stuff, and we have been discussing a bunch of EU stuff, but when people talk about TIE's having the same defenses as X-Wings that's done by moving the conversation back to film-only rules, and in the films I don't recall any references, verbal or visual, to TIEs lacking hyperspace. It's totally possible I just have no recollection.

Obi wan calls out that tie couldn't be at alderan this far from a base or something. And in the films we see x wings go into and out of hyperspace.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Ghost Leviathan posted:

I needa watch more Clone Wars, apparently Tarkin is basically pegged by Palpatine as the kinda guy who shares his vision for the galaxy. Probably is all 'If only he could use the Force, he'd be a shoo-in for my apprentice'.

On the TIE shields issues, might be best to say that they have the cheapest shields money can buy and X-Wing lasers are heavy enough to punch straight through 'em.

Don't make me pull out the book again!!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





feedmegin posted:

Tanks, yes, and you've got like Liberty ships I guess. Major warships were about equally bespoke just about everywhere. You just don't mass produce something that large.

Of course the Empire does so they may well actually standardise things a lot more.

You need standardization before you can do the mass production. You don't need mass production to do standardization. One of the reasons we could make 37 sherman tanks per every tiger tank is that standardization.

And while we didn't mass produce battleships (mainly because we had other priorities and air power was ruling the sea anyway), we could have because of that standardization.

The Empire fielded 25,000 ISDs. You don't get that in 20 years without parts standardization.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Well, we know there's like 4 ship yards the empire used. So if they're building 25k across 4 ship yards that very strongly suggests a specific industrial process. Especially if many of the parts are farmed out to other businesses.

Also I just thought of a relative way to check on parts standardization using my D6 book but i'm at work so it'll have to wait.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





jeeves posted:

You guys know itís now in canon that somehow-returned-Palpatine just simply willed stone into ships... or something.

Perfectly explains the 25K number of ISDs.

No, because we know they were made in shipyards. Because the books say they were made in shipyards.

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





jeeves posted:

Honestly Timothy Zahn deserves a lot of credit for writing Thrawn as able to build a fearsome fighting machine out of a rag tag bunch of downtrodden Imperals without an Empire. Then his super weapon is a lot of slight of hand. Itís kind of amazing how much good writing counts versus the authors who followed him, including Kevin J. (ďthe J stands for Iím a lovely writer!Ē) Anderson and his INVINCIBLE SUN CRUSHER!!!!!!!!!

Talk about shittiest piece of garbage tech in all of science fiction.

As an abstract thing the suncrusher was interesting, in that the hull was invulnerable but there always had to be some way of getting into the ship, so things like weapon turrets and engines would get crushed when it got yeeted into a sun or whatever.

But that's the only interesting thing about it.

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