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death 2 america? hero edition
skateboard overturned car guy
gas can hockey stick guy
naked Athena
riot ribs
say! what a lot of moms there are
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Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!





Lux Animus posted:

How many PBJs can you fit in a standard plate carrier

5 or 10 probably, depending how they're stacked.

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DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case




if you want to know about the essential, non-glamorous activities required to build solidarity in your area, find your local food bank and volunteer with them. while you're there, ask about any larger mutual aid networks.

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn


Soiled Meat

Ice Phisherman posted:

100%. Echoing this a hundred-thousand times.

Support work isn't glamorous but it's extremely necessary and good and cool. Some people want to imagine themselves on the barricades fighting the gendarmes. They don't want to imagine themselves cooking food or scrounging water to keep the fighters on the barricades. A lot of people want a position of glory even though the cooks still get shot at. And for every one person fighting they need a serious support network to make it possible. No one is self-sufficient.


Focusing on just the glorious shootmen can also make people who have physical disabilities and thus cannot fight, like me and me poo poo knees :v, feel like they either need to get themselves hosed up rumbling on the front lines or get tossed into the back ground doing 'just support work'. Its lovely and reinforces hosed up ideas about the division of labor along ability and gender lines.

MY INEVITABLE DEBT
Apr 21, 2011

just one more spin

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

if you want to know about the essential, non-glamorous activities required to build solidarity in your area, find your local food bank and volunteer with them. while you're there, ask about any larger mutual aid networks.

how does this prevent state sponsored violence

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Official Forums Path of Exile Expert


MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:

how does this prevent state sponsored violence

poverty is state sponsored violence

Happy Hedonist
Jan 18, 2009




DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

if you want to know about the essential, non-glamorous activities required to build solidarity in your area, find your local food bank and volunteer with them. while you're there, ask about any larger mutual aid networks.

This is it. Get a hold of or create your local food not bombs chapter.

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







https://twitter.com/dudgedudy/status/1388968660111437829?s=20
https://twitter.com/dudgedudy/status/1388974522519412741?s=20

paperwind
Sep 5, 2006
Cunning Linguist

I see that Polish Americans ain't all too different politically from the motherland.

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!





Happy Hedonist posted:

This is it. Get a hold of or create your local food not bombs chapter.

The current conversation from the past few pages has actually inspired me to do that. There are currently two members in my town

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

if you want to know about the essential, non-glamorous activities required to build solidarity in your area, find your local food bank and volunteer with them. while you're there, ask about any larger mutual aid networks.

Going to volunteer at my local food distribution
https://twitter.com/ChicagoCAPS12/status/1387421467739033603?s=20

Happy Hedonist
Jan 18, 2009




Thump! posted:

The current conversation from the past few pages has actually inspired me to do that. There are currently two members in my town

It's alright. I joined my local chapter and within 3 months I was in charge of it because no one else would step up. It'll work out and you'll probably meet some cool people in the process.

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn


Soiled Meat

MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:

how does this prevent state sponsored violence

to build on what others said, working in mutual aid networks also lets you build the foundations for other kinds of networks. The feds are gonna target you for feeding the poor anyways, look at what happened to the Panthers. Might as well lay the ground work for slightly spicier things in the far future.

silentsnack
Mar 19, 2009

Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.



MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:

sorry what does this mean

what activity is "carrying the plates to the sink" in this metaphor

support work, which often goes unrecognized (or even dismissed/etc) because it doesn't directly advance any primary strategic ends, but is necessary in order to enable others to do the big heroic bullshit

paperwind
Sep 5, 2006
Cunning Linguist

silentsnack posted:

support work, which often goes unrecognized (or even dismissed/etc) because it doesn't directly advance any primary strategic ends, but is necessary in order to enable others to do the big heroic bullshit

It's seriously important. I've approached protest organizers and asked them if there's any immediate material needs they have, gone out and bought what they needed and schlepped it back. Logistics are a necessary part of any movement (literal or figurative) of people.

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!





If we ran a food bank, though, would that end police violence tomorrow?

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case




MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:

how does this prevent state sponsored violence

asked and answered, but the overwhelming majority of state sponsored violence does not involve guns or men in uniforms


ha ha ha, but also, if the cops are the only ones visibly tending to people's immediate needs it tends to leave an impression in people. witness polls that show high levels of support for the police as an institution even in communities of color. handing out free food is the best propaganda there is. the CPD knew that fred hampton's free breakfast program was the most dangerous thing in the city and they loving murdered him for it.

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







Any sort of community outreach needs to be tied to political education. I was ragging specifically on the "go volunteer at a food bank" post. Food Not Bombs has a political program behind it, and is a better suggestion.

The Panthers specifically viewed their survival programs as a venue for popular education about communism. Kids got a meal and sang songs about communism, while the parents could stay and discuss politics.

elise the great
May 1, 2012

BIONIC BUTTSLOUGH


Thereís a reason the federal government likes to kill people for handing out food. A well-fed populace has energy for revolution.

Building mutual aid support networks lays the foundation for other support networks. If you already have the organization and supply lines for food, itís much easier to slide that sideways into armed resistance. It means you already know who the cop ops are, whoís a pedo or sexpest trying to sidle up to the community, who trusts you, who you can trust. And it means that the community you serve is less locked into survival mode, able to support action, ready to provide bodies, with established cover and communication and supply.

Whereas if you just rustle up some buddies for a copfight, at least one of them is a cop lmao

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case




elise the great posted:

Thereís a reason the federal government likes to kill people for handing out food. A well-fed populace has energy for revolution.

Building mutual aid support networks lays the foundation for other support networks. If you already have the organization and supply lines for food, itís much easier to slide that sideways into armed resistance. It means you already know who the cop ops are, whoís a pedo or sexpest trying to sidle up to the community, who trusts you, who you can trust. And it means that the community you serve is less locked into survival mode, able to support action, ready to provide bodies, with established cover and communication and supply.

Whereas if you just rustle up some buddies for a copfight, at least one of them is a cop lmao

yeah i mean you go to your local food bank as a first step, not as the literal entirety of your political program. the reason you do it is that it's how you, the individual, plug into a larger network of solidarity-minded people. i linked up with a maoist group in my area to do food distro for a while. we didn't put copies of the little red book into people's grocery bags and we didn't wear uniforms and we didn't talk to people about the importance of the mass line. most of the people we fed didn't even know the org was maoist, or what that might mean. but it meant that i knew a bunch of people who had solid anti-imperial leanings, they knew me, and when we needed to do actions more complicated and involved than handing out food we already had each other on signal and people in the community already knew us and trusted us.

i swear, this forum. every time you suggest any action other than immediately throwing grenades at cops and you get a conga line of drive-by posters being like "and don't forget to vote for joe biden" reminds me of the idiots who roll up to supply packaging nights like "alright comrades, when are we going to drink some pig blood?" like ok officer, should i give you my full name and social or should i just flash it past your lapel cam.

DAD LOST MY IPOD has issued a correction as of 01:05 on May 3, 2021

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!





DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

yeah i mean you go to your local food bank as a first step, not as the literal entirety of your political program. the reason you do it is that it's how you, the individual, plug into a larger network of solidarity-minded people. i linked up with a maoist group in my area to do food distro for a while. we didn't put copies of the little red book into people's grocery bags and we didn't wear uniforms and we didn't talk to people about the importance of the mass line. most of the people we fed didn't even know the org was maoist, or what that might mean. but it meant that i knew a bunch of people who had solid anti-imperial leanings, they knew me, and when we needed to do actions more complicated and involved than handing out food we already had each other on signal and people in the community already knew us and trusted us.

i swear, this forum. every time you suggest any action other than immediately throwing grenades at cops and you get a conga line of drive-by posters being like "and don't forget to vote for joe biden" reminds me of the idiots who roll up to supply packaging nights like "alright comrades, when are we going to drink some pig blood?" like ok officer, should i give you my full name and social or should i just flash it past your lapel cam.

Wait you guys got to drink pig blood?

Happy Hedonist
Jan 18, 2009




I sustain myself solely on the blood of my enemies.

breadnsucc
Jun 1, 2020

Wall Of Rads

elise the great posted:

Thereís a reason the federal government likes to kill people for handing out food. A well-fed populace has energy for revolution.

Building mutual aid support networks lays the foundation for other support networks. If you already have the organization and supply lines for food, itís much easier to slide that sideways into armed resistance. It means you already know who the cop ops are, whoís a pedo or sexpest trying to sidle up to the community, who trusts you, who you can trust. And it means that the community you serve is less locked into survival mode, able to support action, ready to provide bodies, with established cover and communication and supply.

Whereas if you just rustle up some buddies for a copfight, at least one of them is a cop lmao

this exact drama('i did a food aid' vs 'i did an march') has been acted out in the streets and someone ended up arrested. I feel like there is a lot of work everyone is doing, all of it is equally valid and important, all of it carries danger, some people are better suited to different things too, hopefully not in a way that is harmful to persons doing the other things. but like I sure as poo poo can't have reasonable conversations with right wing people or liberals or peace police, some people have the ability, but I just can't handle that poo poo so i don't do it. another example is some people can't even be in the streets and choose to be support in various capacities, cars/medics/scanners/research, whatever the gently caress else. Some nights I can stay up all night waiting for a comrade to get out of jail, some nights I'm just too loving tired.

I think in general, the biggest issue is communication and organization, our networks are very thin because there is so little trust on the left I think a lot due to the trauma of cointelpro and poo poo like it that continues to play out in our communities. I dunno where I'm going with this, except it sucks if support people feel that they're being poo poo on, support people have essentially kept me sane(or at least some semblance of it, lmao) over the last sixth months even in little ways and I'll be eternally grateful. Also there's probably cops in our support networks because thats where the most vulnerable of us go for, well, support.

If I remember right the military infiltrator at the oly port resistance came in as a medic lmao

breadnsucc has issued a correction as of 02:45 on May 3, 2021

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


That's one thing that's always bothered me, as someone trying to figure out how to help...how the hell do we account for the 'end of history', not in the sense of eternal lib democracy forever, but that in the imperial heart, state security forces pretty much landed upon the perfect combo of outright physical violence and infiltration and using subservient media to prevent the very idea of leftism from even existing on a widespread level? Cops can be defeated in the street, but then it seemed the massive amount of infrastructure counterattacked on every level to shut down opposition. Its just scary in the sheer volume of power we have to go up against.

silentsnack
Mar 19, 2009

Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.



breadnsucc posted:

I think in general, the biggest issue is communication and organization, our networks are very thin because there is so little trust on the left I think a lot due to the trauma of cointelpro and poo poo like it that continues to play out in our communities. I dunno where I'm going with this, except it sucks if support people feel that they're being poo poo on, support people have essentially kept me sane(or at least some semblance of it, lmao) over the last sixth months even in little ways and I'll be eternally grateful. Also there's probably cops in our support networks because thats where the most vulnerable of us go for, well, support.

If I remember right the military infiltrator at the oly port resistance came in as a medic lmao

the most effective infiltrator is always the one that brings the indispensable skills/resources you most desperately need and is friendly/helpful but doesn't draw much attention; which automatically filters them into a position that confers trust and gives a lot of latitude with unspecified duties and unrestricted/unsupervised access and where they can't be easily scrutinized or booted. And as a consequence, if/when they're discovered the betrayal completely poisons the group against itself.

so if support workers feel like they're getting poo poo on the organization is doomed, assuming it wasn't designed to fail from the beginning.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

Life's too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
Life's too short not
To love everybody
Life is too long to hate




you guys seemed to like the other songs so here's another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvZXXyxJawA

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 14 days!


Not all resistance tactics developed for 3rd world nations apply to the US. The food one is a clear difference, it is not hard to obtain food in America, so all of this "we need supporters to feed the resistance" is BS. Anyone can go into walmart and fill up a shopping cart with all kinds of non-perishable ready-to-eat foodstuffs. That same luxury was not available for, say, guerillas in Cuba.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!





Having a bunch of small groups that don't all know each other helps, but isn't foolproof. Doing food aid by roving around giving food to the hungry instead of having a fixed location helps, but isn't foolproof. There's a lot of good work people can do that the state will actively try to subvert because it wants to stamp out any smoldering wisp of leftism, but the good work can still get done.

Happy Hedonist
Jan 18, 2009




human garbage bag posted:

Not all resistance tactics developed for 3rd world nations apply to the US. The food one is a clear difference, it is not hard to obtain food in America, so all of this "we need supporters to feed the resistance" is BS. Anyone can go into walmart and fill up a shopping cart with all kinds of non-perishable ready-to-eat foodstuffs. That same luxury was not available for, say, guerillas in Cuba.

Right, but there are still people out there going hungry and there is a TON of food that normally would go to waste if not for organizations like food not bombs.

I think some of y'all are missing the forest for the trees here. Mutual aide is about creating networks that allow a community to provide for itself, not subverting the state. You'll meet people along the way that will want to join you or will invite you on their quest to do just that, but it is not at all the primary goal of mutual aide. At least not here.

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case




the point of mutual aid is to build networks that can then perform other kinds of coordinated activity, I donít know how many different times and ways I can say that

Happy Hedonist
Jan 18, 2009




DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

the point of mutual aid is to build networks that can then perform other kinds of coordinated activity, I donít know how many different times and ways I can say that

Yea. Like here, food not bombs coordinates with a mutual aide tech group that has written a nextdoor style app that is solely for mutual aide. It allows me to broadcast what food we have, where it is, and how you can get it. It facilitates all kinds of other poo poo too, it's pretty cool.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

the point of mutual aid is to build networks that can then perform other kinds of coordinated activity, I don’t know how many different times and ways I can say that

Are you getting exasperated from all the posting you have been doing or something

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


fuck money
smoke bitches
get trees


human garbage bag posted:

Not all resistance tactics developed for 3rd world nations apply to the US.

agreed. for instance, it takes a lot more work to build solidarity and class consciousness in the us vs. somewhere like venezuela

silentsnack
Mar 19, 2009

Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.



Hooplah posted:

agreed. for instance, it takes a lot more work to build solidarity and class consciousness in the us vs. somewhere like venezuela

step 1: build a time machine and disappear from history
step 2: uhhh...?

ekuNNN
Nov 27, 2004





Tubgoat posted:

Point me to the revolutionary dishes and I will carry them to the sink and wash them.



also:

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!



Fallen Rib

Sjs00 posted:

Are you getting exasperated from all the posting you have been doing or something

Take up the poster's burden
Set flame to sticky weeds
Steal time from your employer
To serve our content needs

SHIT POST MALONE
Feb 4, 2005

I was born down. You know this.



heck yeah already doing this am I in the club?

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

Marx Headroom posted:

Take up the poster's burden
Set flame to sticky weeds
Steal time from your employer
To serve our content needs
Anyone can be a poster and
Anyone can post but don't
Steal time from your employer
When your employer is yourself

BONGHITZ
Jan 1, 1970

how can i listen to my pirated albums? oh wait.





I only eat foil packs

Bert Roberge
Nov 28, 2003



https://twitter.com/yung__mean/status/1389250392886849541

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Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







https://twitter.com/peoplesdispatch/status/1389288888611622915?s=20
https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/status/1389297017302790144?s=20

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