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Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

God drat Neb that's some good effort posting.

I love submarines.

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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Pennywise the Frown posted:

God drat Neb that's some good effort posting.

I love submarines.

:highfive:

Just FYI, that blog I linked to and borrowed images from is great if you love submarines. The guy is also sorta obsessed with Narco subs and special forces submarines; and there are not a lot of people writing about those. Or about intelligence work done by subs. (TL;DR America and Russia had and still have special submarines that can do all sorts of weird poo poo when it comes to tapping and 'delousing' undersea cables. Russia in particular has leveraged its submarines to create special mini-spy subs to do these jobs, the latest of which was in some sort of bad accident last year.)

Randomcheese3 posted:

There's a few things you've missed out

Thanks. I had seen mention of those WW1-interwar experiments, but saw nothing about postwar helicopters and subs.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



ARISE FROM THE DEEPS, THREAD

So, Ecco the Dolphin? The box are was done by scifi/fantasy/sexy lady illustrator Boris Vallejo.



SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


One of the people who popularized the idea of how dolphins are very intelligent creatures was John C. Lily. He did a lot of research on Dolphins and how they communicated that peaked with a big experiment to try to teach a dolphin to speak english. Most people who report about the experiment don't focus on the guy in charge of the experiment and instead prefer to focus on the woman who they had doing the teaching and who ended up having to jack off the dolphin to keep it from getting aggressive.

What makes him particularly sci-fi related though (aside from inspiring a lot of future sci-fi works involving dolphins) is the fact that towards the end of his career, he started having a lot of weird ideas about aliens and how there was something called the Cosmic Coincidence Control Center that we needed to make contact with. This is probably due to the fact that the other major facet of his career was working with altered states of consciousness. He invented the sensory deprivation tank, but he did a whole lot of experimentation with LSD, and later ketamine. Enough to go pretty crazy.

He also gave LSD to dolphins, and they died. Didn't come back up for air while they were underwater, so either they wanted to commit suicide or they were just confused by how they were tripping balls.

It was an interesting episode of the Dollop.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



That dude is a great example as to why peer review is an important thing - also his diet of drugs was "alarming, even by 1960s standards"

In zoological circles the intelligence of dolphins is debated a fair bit, but the last time I read anything on it the general consensus was that Dolphins were not that special in intelligence. Mainly because while they were heard animals, they had a very simple social structure.

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart

I was looking for something different in RPGs a few years back and came across Blue Planet from Biohazard Games.
Over all it seemed pretty interesting.
They had to come up with some new rules for full underwater battles.

https://www.biohazardgamespublishing.com/blueplanet
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78943/Fluid-Mechanics-Technology-in-the-World-of-Blue-Planet?term=blue+planet

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Nebakenezzer posted:

That dude is a great example as to why peer review is an important thing - also his diet of drugs was "alarming, even by 1960s standards"

In zoological circles the intelligence of dolphins is debated a fair bit, but the last time I read anything on it the general consensus was that Dolphins were not that special in intelligence. Mainly because while they were heard animals, they had a very simple social structure.

'Intelligence' is a very hard thing to define, too. Using things like logic puzzles and physical challenges may be difficult for a human, but extremely obvious to an animal who relies on different senses.

A comparison comes to mind of those dumb internet 'intelligence tests' that include what are actually just colourblindness tests.

Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Nov 6, 2020

Asterite34
May 19, 2009




Nebakenezzer posted:

ARISE FROM THE DEEPS, THREAD

So, Ecco the Dolphin? The box are was done by scifi/fantasy/sexy lady illustrator Boris Vallejo.





...THAT Boris Vallejo? He did those Lisa Frank-esque covers?! How did I not know this, I loved those bullshit-impossible games as a kid (as my username might indicate). Gotta love games that could somehow kill you over and over even with the invincibility cheat on.

e: And speaking of John C Lilly and Ecco the Dolphin, The CCCC he rambled about in his later years had a sub-agency responsible for Earth, the Earth Coincidence Control Office.

Asterite34 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 6, 2020

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


Pirates of Dark Water is the best nautical sci fi

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Asterite34 posted:

...THAT Boris Vallejo? He did those Lisa Frank-esque covers?! How did I not know this, I loved those bullshit-impossible games as a kid (as my username might indicate). Gotta love games that could somehow kill you over and over even with the invincibility cheat on.

Vallejo's been around 40+ years as an illustrator, he did the posters for National Lampoon Family vacation movies for example. The HeeChee SF books (that Mass Effect stole a disturbing amount of its plot from) start with Gateway and a Vallejo illustration.

You may have to explain these games. I've never played, only really knowing they are remembered, surreal, and stupidly hard.

Asterite34
May 19, 2009




Nebakenezzer posted:

Vallejo's been around 40+ years as an illustrator, he did the posters for National Lampoon Family vacation movies for example. The HeeChee SF books (that Mass Effect stole a disturbing amount of its plot from) start with Gateway and a Vallejo illustration.

You may have to explain these games. I've never played, only really knowing they are remembered, surreal, and stupidly hard.

To be fair, I more associate Vallejo with naked women and Conan the Barbarian types brandishing swords at dragons and similar imagery than nature scenes.

As for explaining Ecco the Dolphin... well you know how in the 90s there was a resurgence in the New Age movement with the imminent Millennium, associated with environmentalism, magic crystals, psychic powers, aliens, Atlantis and, front and center, dolphins? And ALSO in the 90s, home videogames on the SNES and Genesis were all nonsensically difficult and had bonkers plots that would involve dinosaurs and time travel and H.R. Giger monsters that had barely any foreshadowing, like the alien thing at the end of Contra? Well Ecco the Dolphin combined these two ideas.

The game opens with frolicking dolphins suddenly being vacuumed into the sky and leaving the title character to go on a journey through space and time (mostly involving clumsy block-pushing puzzles, punitive oxygen meters, and enemies that can clip through loving walls) involving Atlantean time machines, enigmatic magical beings, and concluding with assaulting an alien world-harvester to get your friends back. Now there WAS a cheat code to give you infinite health and air, rendering enemies and oxygen a non-issue, but the last level was a six-minute auto-scroller through a maze of unexpected dead ends and tight squeezes and would insta-kill you as you get crushed against the level geometry, screaming all the while and being assaulted by THESE horrible things that keep attacking you even after being decapitated.

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice




It really needs a reboot.

Asterite34
May 19, 2009




StratGoatCom posted:

It really needs a reboot.

You mean another reboot, it already got a reboot on the Dreamcast

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




I played Ecco on the game gear a bunch and liked it in the way that one generally likes a game with good vibes that you're really bad at when you're a kid.

Speaking of nautical sci-fi games, Treasures of the Deep has really stuck with me for the last couple decades. There's something extremely funny about a game that ping-pongs between artificial earthquake machines, combat in the marianas trench, underwater aztec dart traps, and stealing lobsters from lobster fisherman.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003






Nebakenezzer posted:

I think you mean kilometers of water

But I just googled to see how that X-prize about this was going, turns out there is a winner and it is pretty cool: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48473701

Driving further down the tangent and speaking of cool robotic projects, one of my favourite little projects to check in on every now and then is Saildrone. Solar panels don't really provide an oceangoing drone enough power to move around autonomously by engine all the time, but they're more than enough to allow one to control its own sails! You can load up saildrones with scientific instruments, give them a course and just let them go and they're capable of fully autonomously doing their thing. Longest mission so far is one spent 196 days sailing around Antarctica collecting climate data for 22000km before coming home.

Anyway on the oceanfloor mapping front NOAA did a test earlier this year where they sent a quartet of them out for a few months with depth sounders to map the Bering Sea and Alaska North Slope, just zigzagging around by themselves. Because Covid meant it would've been a hassle to launch them up there they just kicked 'em out into the ocean in San Francisco and told them to go to Alaska themselves and come back when they're done.

This is getting very non-sci-fi but on the other hand fleets of robot drones monitoring the ocean are kinda sci-fi anyway.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Nov 12, 2020

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


SlothfulCobra posted:

One of the people who popularized the idea of how dolphins are very intelligent creatures was John C. Lily. He did a lot of research on Dolphins and how they communicated that peaked with a big experiment to try to teach a dolphin to speak english.

Zippy the Bummer
Dec 14, 2008

pro hobo

Silent Majority
THE DON







C.S. Lewis's Malacandra and Perelandra books should count as nautical sci-fi. The former has (non-star wars) space otters sailing around and fishing, and the latter has Venus covered in an ocean with floating islands where dolphin-like beings carry the protagonist around with space-Eve

Chill Penguin
Jan 10, 2004

you know korky buchek?

Petition to rename this thread (and concept) to simply: Sea Fi

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


I always believed I had a broken cartridge of the original Ecco. You get to a point where you can go back in time and go with your pod but instead of getting sucked up you just have to replay the entire game but with some of the abilities you picked up along the way. Older games had some padding so doing what we'd now call a speedrun of the game didn't seem that bad but then it happened again and I threw my controller at the screen and didn't play it again.

Very frustrating.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



I have finished Subnautica, it was a good game as well as Nautical Scifi

I have two complaints.

First: Radiation as a dangerous field through like 800 m of water was a betrayal that now denies me the ability to feel human, all I see everyone as is muppets now

Second: you didn't get the bends. Uh, hello, decompression chambers?!?!

I bring this thread out of its cold, abyssal depths again for a more substansive reason: I found another aircraft launched from submarine

https://jalopnik.com/the-soviet-torpedo-sized-one-man-helicopter-5602424

In short, the Soviets tried to make a personal helicopter that could be stored in a torpedo-sized carrying container

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




That's something that really should be in a Bond movie.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Nebakenezzer posted:

Second: you didn't get the bends. Uh, hello, decompression chambers?!?!

If you read the description on your wetsuit it's basically some sort of hyper-advanced life support system so I can totally buy it somehow preventing decompression sickness.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Polaron posted:

If you read the description on your wetsuit it's basically some sort of hyper-advanced life support system so I can totally buy it somehow preventing decompression sickness.

That does make sense, since you have replicators practically

Oh, one more not at all serious complaint: all big ships distill their own water from seawater, they have a big vacuum chamber that lowers pressure so the water boils easily, then they distill it. It's not energy intensive

What a finely tuned exploration and crafting game really needs is hours sitting in a decompression chamber (PS> A new game/sorta expansion is coming out in February 2021, it's set in a polar ocean.)

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!





Nebakenezzer posted:


What a finely tuned exploration and crafting game really needs is hours sitting in a decompression chamber

Donít tell Chris Roberts.

Thereís a series of German submarine shooters called Archimedean Dynasty. They clearly take a lot of inspiration from Wing Commander, but are more arcade-y. The brand got rebooted as Aquanox and there was a new one out recently.

SoylentCola
Mar 21, 2001



Ultra Carp

Sounds like you chumps need some Stingray, proper 60's Gerry Anderson magic

https://youtu.be/I8IeNk4R65k

This series was peak Anderson and embodied the enemy within aspects of underwater SciFi.

Also Underwater was a good film and I will tut at anyone who disagrees.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I've been playing through Subnautica and slowly working through my deepest fears about the depths of the oceans.

Then after another thread convinced me to watch through Outlaw Star, I reached an episode where they were trying to loot an old wreck buried in the ocean and stuck in a lower gaseous layer, only to be attacked by a bunch of giant demon lobsters. An old pirate guy took a minisub to kill the largest lobster with his own hands in kind of a white whale situation.

That's gonna be stuck in my head the next time I play.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



SlothfulCobra posted:

I've been playing through Subnautica and slowly working through my deepest fears about the depths of the oceans.

So I knew there was a reason the Cyclops had a switch to turn off internal lights: so I'd been to the "dead space" vegetation area before, but what the game doesn't tell you is that there are two separate blood vine areas with somewhat different fauna. So I'm down in the depths, my internal lights are on, and I step away from the bridge to do something. As soon as I get to the storage area, a creature starts attacking me. I run back to the bridge and a fifteen foot long translucent squid I've never seen before is right up against the bridge, staring in

I was alarmed

Regarde Aduck
Oct 18, 2012

haha


Grimey Drawer

Nebakenezzer posted:

I have finished Subnautica, it was a good game as well as Nautical Scifi

I have two complaints.

First: Radiation as a dangerous field through like 800 m of water was a betrayal that now denies me the ability to feel human, all I see everyone as is muppets now

Second: you didn't get the bends. Uh, hello, decompression chambers?!?!

I bring this thread out of its cold, abyssal depths again for a more substansive reason: I found another aircraft launched from submarine

https://jalopnik.com/the-soviet-torpedo-sized-one-man-helicopter-5602424

In short, the Soviets tried to make a personal helicopter that could be stored in a torpedo-sized carrying container

Subnautica is actually magical realism and your magical power is being immune to the bends and also radiation works differently

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Subnautica is one of those games best played as blind as possible, it's never the same after.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Subnautica is one of those games best played as blind as possible, it's never the same after.

Definitely.

They have a sequel coming out, but it is still in early access.

Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending


Grimey Drawer

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Subnautica is one of those games best played as blind as possible, it's never the same after.

Speaking of playing a game blind, and it not being the same after...

Return of the Obra Dinn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxFFNR4je3A

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Bootcha posted:

Speaking of playing a game blind, and it not being the same after...

Return of the Obra Dinn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxFFNR4je3A

Well, yeah. The entire game is a mystery and the solving of it

HIJK
Nov 25, 2012

People were stupid, sometimes. They thought the Library was a dangerous place because of all the magical books, which was true enough, but what made it really one of the most dangerous places there could ever be was the simple fact that it was a library.


Does Sunless Sea count? I've been enjoying it but it may lean on the fantasy side.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



HIJK posted:

Does Sunless Sea count? I've been enjoying it but it may lean on the fantasy side.

I think the field is open, especially since it is kind of a rare topic

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I was never really sure what Bionicle counted as. The initial premise of like robot people sounds sci-fi, but then when it started out it seemed like a weirdly spiritual thing with the Toa on a mission to save their god that had been sent into a deep sleep. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A-NivINvLM It still had a really neat flavor (that they actually got sued for some of the cultural appropriation).

It really bounced back and forth from there, the next enemies were more explicitly automatons, people got chosen for some mystical destinies, there was a secret underground city where the matoran had once lived with heavier industry, it was confusing. I checked in every so often on wikis to figure out what was going on, but the last time I really cared at all was when they had the Barraki arc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRkzEp36KI

Basically they had been chasing after the Mask of Life for a while, and somebody tossed it into the ocean, where apparently there was a secret ancient underwater prison for warlords from some bygone era broke out at some point and mutated into different varieties of fishmen and got crossbows to shoot parasitic eels at people. There was also a long lost village that slid into the ocean long ago that managed to survive off plants that produced pockets of air. Neat concepts. I still checked out again before the heroes to fight the Barraki came along. Guess I thought fishmen were cooler than divers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aV_qPzTfnU

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Bootcha posted:

Speaking of playing a game blind, and it not being the same after...

Return of the Obra Dinn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxFFNR4je3A

Man, the only negative experience I had with Obra Dinn was finishing the game, taking 30 minutes to compose myself, and then realizing I'd never be able to experience playing Obra Dinn for the first time again. What a great game.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



SlothfulCobra posted:

One of the people who popularized the idea of how dolphins are very intelligent creatures was John C. Lily. He did a lot of research on Dolphins and how they communicated that peaked with a big experiment to try to teach a dolphin to speak english. Most people who report about the experiment don't focus on the guy in charge of the experiment and instead prefer to focus on the woman who they had doing the teaching and who ended up having to jack off the dolphin to keep it from getting aggressive.

What makes him particularly sci-fi related though (aside from inspiring a lot of future sci-fi works involving dolphins) is the fact that towards the end of his career, he started having a lot of weird ideas about aliens and how there was something called the Cosmic Coincidence Control Center that we needed to make contact with. This is probably due to the fact that the other major facet of his career was working with altered states of consciousness. He invented the sensory deprivation tank, but he did a whole lot of experimentation with LSD, and later ketamine. Enough to go pretty crazy.

He also gave LSD to dolphins, and they died. Didn't come back up for air while they were underwater, so either they wanted to commit suicide or they were just confused by how they were tripping balls.

It was an interesting episode of the Dollop.

This youtube channel has a solid video about Lily and his experiments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UziFw-jQSks

Shits crazy yo. Not only did that woman have to jerk off the dolphin, one of his techs kept thinking about going to to the lab and loving one of the female ones. He at least realized there was a good chance he would get injured doing this. I feel like this is one of those situations were an animal being more than just a food and poop monster is being superior intelligence and therefor equal to humans.

Pretty sure all the sci-fi that has super smart dolphins comes from Lily's research.

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OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart

Also all the related Dolphin porn.

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