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nweismuller posted:Diplomatic Considerations This is a pretty solid plan; as the gnolam you'd be making trade deals anyway unless you're going for some kind of gimmick run, and usually three or two periods of trade more or less offsets the diplomatic penalty of telling aliens they're not our real dad anyway, we'll settle where we drat well please.
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Jun 8, 2020 05:01
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Cat Mattress posted:That's one thing I like about Stars in Shadow. It's reasonably easy to peacefully get civilians of other races, thanks to cultural exchanges (an event where an AI empire on friendly terms will give you three units of colonists), and derelict/refugee colonies that may spontaneously join you when you discover them. Also, stretching a little bit the meaning of pacifist, you can also sometimes capture pirate colony ships. I mean, they attack first and it doesn't anger any other empire. If we're stretching pacifism, it's at least in theory possible to diplomatically trade for one of their planets. The price is usually steep, and presumably the AI has to... Respect your fleet strength to even consider this.
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Jun 10, 2020 11:38
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nweismuller posted:Speaking of, what exactly is permitted by way of colonisation in territory you've secured? Once you've fully blocked off system accesses, the map indicates systems colored in your colors; does that constitute a full diplomatic claim you can enforce? So far as I can tell, each race makes one check for 'is this dude colonizing a star system adjacent to one of mine', if you tell them to piss off that's that, and similarly if you agree to back off, you've made a treaty of sorts to never colonize in a star system near them. After that you can do whatever you want inside your star systems. And I don't think there's a general "this empire is getting too big" malus to diplomacy a lá MoO 1, either, or at least it isn't nearly as aggressive. Rappaport fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 05:56
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nweismuller posted:What I'm meaning is... once you secure front lines, it will mark systems as being 'secured' in the appropriate colors, as we see in Hoshi and Talas. Is the AI restricted from colonising behind your lines in secured systems like that, I wonder? Once you've built military outposts to block the system, aliens can't show up to colonize anymore. That said, if you don't block off your systems, alien races will gleefully come and colonize planets in the same star system as your colony once they run out of room elsewhere, and what's even better is that if you do block your empire off, eventually they will begin to nag you for an open borders treaty, and saying no incurs a relations penalty, and welp 
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Jun 17, 2020 11:43
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nweismuller posted:So, just to be clear, you're saying 'secured' systems are safe, or only secured systems that directly have military outposts in that system itself? It's like cats and boxes, if it fits I sits :: if alien can plot a route to planet, alien will colonize. Effectively this means that blocking off the border star systems of your empire is enough.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:57
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GunnerJ posted:So like, they all forgot how to preserve food in MoO-verse or something MoO2 (from 1996) sort of abstracted this mechanic away by having an empire-wide pool of food similarly to how you'd have an empire-wide pool of money or RP (with the added layer that you needed to spend some money to build freighters that would ship the food or new colonists around, but the actual freighters were abstracted into invisibility and so long as freighter number > food moving around number, you were good), but this re-make MoO did away with this idea, and now you have to not only build freighters one by one to ferry population around (manually), but as mentioned above you can only move food around within a single star system and this is unlocked way later in the tech-tree. I would argue it would be worse if the game let you also build food freighters and somehow had to manually guide them around the galaxy as you must with the population transfer freighters, and the focus of this re-make wasn't necessarily laser-precisely honed on quality of life improvements, so
Rappaport fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 19:35
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MechaCrash posted:I know that I tend to be a little too quick to reach for the biggest guns, but I will actually be voting no to Destroyer playpen ships. My reasoning is that we have not yet hit the point where Frigates are completely pointless (arguably that point doesn't really come in nuMOO because you can order ships in batches; the fact that any planet worth a crap could churn out even Cruisers in two turns in MOO2 is part of why smaller ships became obsolete), and we also have not hit the point where we can sling command points around like they don't even matter. I second this/vote in favour of this plan 
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Jul 3, 2020 19:52
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Xlorp posted:So is this version good enough to eventually get lost in riding bikes and clowning on Antarans? I loved being able to take extreme strategies for fun. Stealing every tech in the galaxy then capturing entire Antaran fleets just so I could beat them with only the best of their former ships under my control. At the detail level I like seeing the available routes shape the story. Any races more annoying than Darloks? My Steam account says I've played a whole lot of Orion 2016, and I think it is very fun for what it is, but it simply doesn't have the "balls to the wall" craziness you could do in MoO2, in my opinion. Certain game mechanics are simply superior to utilize, so no matter your race of choice you end up more or less playing in a similar way (with a slight exception in the case of the robotic life forms already seen in this LP and one more slightly exotic race), unless you specifically want to challenge yourself in some way. As posted above though, there is a modding scene for Orion 2016 and some of the mods make the game explicitly tougher. I also like the graphics in 2016, though the designers did stick boobs on a lot of creatures they shouldn't have, IMO.
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Jul 14, 2020 08:58
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nweismuller posted:E: Sorry this update was delayed even a day after I said it would be. I ended up spending yesterday... recharging, basically, and ended up able to tackle the writing today. This gets said a lot on the LP forum I guess, but still: Don't worry about your schedule  We are all having fun in this thread, and what content you can generate, when you feel like it, is a plus for all of us reading, and hopefully also gives you yourself some enjoyment.
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Jul 16, 2020 11:58
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nweismuller posted:I'd not be so defensive about our own borders if not for the fact I'm assured that the AI will settle in systems we already have colonies in if we have open borders, heh. I mean, you could try and see what happens The AI isn't always consistent about doing this, but my game mechanics guts tell me that with this galaxy type the AI will be an 'aggressive' colonizer because you're all penned up for a good while with usually just one neighbour in the same sector, and this leads to a wet cats in a bag - type situation real fast. And on the other hand, as discussed upthread, there is the possibility for trying to negotiate for them to give up their freshly colonized world to you! They will usually ask for all the tech they can see on the table though, so your options here are not so great either. This does provide for a more... Civilized way of obtaining alien populations, however. I don't know what effect (if any) them sharing a system with you has on how they view these negotiations, sorry 
Rappaport fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 00:22
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Edit: Nevermind, possibly spoilery
Rappaport fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 02:35
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nweismuller posted:What if we are the Darloks? Honestly, when I saw you had both the Sakkra and the Klackon in the galaxy, welp. I usually like the Sakkra, at least, they're nice enough diplomacy-wise but they will still become a population powerhouse eventually. But the god drat bugs, just shoot on sight 
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Jul 30, 2020 12:56
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MechaCrash posted:For the victory conditions, getting the galactic council going in a big galaxy can be done, it just takes longer. In a more peaceful manner, sometimes when going for the diplomatic win I've just gifted conveniently located planets to AIs that hadn't met each other yet, just to get the god drat council up and running. It's a bit of an infuriating mechanic, to be sure. Honestly, it sort of looks like they put in the score victory just to make sure there's a game-ender that happens no matter what, but since in order to reach the score win, you kind of have to play exactly the same as winning any of the other conditions, so...
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Aug 7, 2020 11:47
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I love talking about this game, and a month's hiatus or so isn't exactly huge by the LP forum standards anyway 
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Sep 7, 2020 17:40
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Diplomatic policy vote: I say go with the soviet bears, actually. Just from a game-play mechanics POV, you're shafted in a galaxy with unconstrained Meklar and the god drat bug people. Obviously the Gnolam are a peace-loving race who just want to make
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Sep 24, 2020 04:07
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nweismuller posted:Can you provide a threat analysis as to why we are shafted? Something for the Assembly to consider. There has been serious debate among the High Marshals of the Mercantile League's armed forces concerning the future possibilities of galactic conflict. Some Marshals feel that the Bulrathi represent a serious threat, given their militaristic society model and the fierceness of their ground combat teams. Others, however, have noted that while the Meklar have been friendly trade partners in the past, their unchecked expansion could lead to an economic power-house to rival even the League itself. There is consensus among the Marshals that the Klackon empire, with their raw breeding power, represent a massive threat to the League, given that their socio-economic model is very much at odds with the League's interests. In short, it seems inevitable in the mid-long term that the Galaxy will embroil itself in combats, to the death, between these various factions, and the League must be prepared to side with those empires whose values represent what the League considers most acceptable, while accounting for the fact that the economic prospects of long-term warfare seem, at the moment, to favour the empires of the Klackon and the Meklar, which will be detrimental to the League's essential goal of achieving the highest prosperity in the Galaxy. It would seem advantageous to set the most dangerous empires on bad footing with one another, while preparing the League's own defences and, if necessary, offensive maneuvers, distasteful as those are to commerce. OOC answer The Meklar's "cybernetic" ability is hilariously broken in-game, and they will out-breed even the Klackon given enough time. And since the game is about amassing population, well... The Klackon are not as broken, but they will colonize everything they can set their many, many eyes upon, and this is also bad news. If we're going for the Nash victory condition, having either of these two races around for too long is bad for business. The AI isn't very good at the Nash victory, but just by sheer numbers, they can thwart an "underdog" race like the Gnolam.
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Sep 24, 2020 06:44
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This is correct, sorry for being a bit coy there!
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Sep 24, 2020 15:53
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nweismuller posted:Please vote for or against this proposal. I'll close this vote relatively quickly, since I can't really close the game running in the background until I accept or deny the proposal. Go for it. Refusing just pisses the cybermen off and you won't see a return coming any time soon. Especially since the League can't actually reach the soviet bears at this time anyway?
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Sep 26, 2020 04:55
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nweismuller posted:Well, as there's been limited discussion thus far on the topic of opinion towards the various powers we've met, let's narrow it down- how do people think the four great interstellar monarchies- the Sakkra Nations, the Great Empire of Bulra, the New Empire, and the Star Empire of Altair- compare against each other as societies? All have established hereditary monarchic rule, which contrasts them fairly sharply with the generally republican ideals extant in the Universal Mercantile League or the United Republic. It's likewise fairly obvious that the United Republic is very high up on the list of interstellar states ideologically congenial to the UML, and one with a very long history of shared friendship. But although those four great interstellar monarchies contrast, they nonetheless have reasonably significant differences between them- how would you evaluate those? From the Guild's ideological perspective, the Sakkra are... Sort of gross, since the in-game lore states that their emperor is in fact the parent of a vast majority of their citizenry, because that's how Sakkra decide who breeds. This seems like a very un-equal society. The Bulrathi society seems to value militaristic ideals, and respects personal strength, but is that so dissimilar from the Guild respecting those who can turn a great deal through guile and wit? The kitty-cats are, well, kitty-cats, opportunistic and probably not the best at long-term planning, which seems like a bad trading partner to me. The bird people are conservative and religious, which should at least in theory mean they're reliable slash honourable when it comes to diplomacy, and would be open to trade with the Guild, even if they internally might consider us heinous heretics. The obvious other side of that particular coin is that if the Guild offends the birds somehow, they will probably not be quick to forgive. General game chit-chat, it's funny how much the 'creature' design of some of the races changed between MoO1, MoO2 and New MoO. The Mrrshan began as... Well-endowed females, in MoO2 they were a very masculine Kzinti-type deal, and here we are back to the lady cats. The birds started out as haughty falcons, then they were pterodactyls in MoO2, and now they're back to haughty falcons, voiced very nicely by Luke Skywalker himself. The Bulrathi were always big bear things, I guess, but in this game in particular I like their general aesthetic, and while the Russian accent is kinda ehh, they're very distinct and that's a good game design choice, IMO. The galaxy of the LP doesn't contain the Silicoid people, but they too had a similar-lish arc as the Mrrshan, the MoO2 Silicoids looked very different from the first game, whereas in this game their ambassador at least looks like an up-dated version of the MoO1 Silicoid.
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Sep 27, 2020 11:26
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nweismuller posted:As I've decided how to present things, I've kept Sakkra fertility and emphasis on family lines while walking back stuff that implies a single individual is the father of literally billions, for the sake of my own sense of plausibility. But the Sakkra society is basically 'space thuggery' writ large. Oh yes, for sure, even without the breeding... Issue, the Sakkra are basically portrayed as the Sopranos of the galaxy, so to speak. Which is sort of funny, since usually you actually can become quite good friends with them diplomatically and through trade, and they seem less prone to just randomly decide to declare war on the player. They will, however, quite merrily drag you into their wars with other AIs, the dang scaly scamps On comparison, the Sakkra in MoO2 were way, way scarier.
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Sep 27, 2020 20:16
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Votes: -Nano technology -Industrialization effort for Val and Tessin -Research focus for Skeggi -Diplomacy: Support the Sakkra Nations, with a joint war declaration if requested. Support Star Empire of Altair similarly. -Actively pursue war operations against the Bulrathi, with an eye for liberating a few colonies in the mid-long run -Ariaa's services are not required by the League While the League's internal politics and development are very well geared toward a peaceful transition towards a new, more prosperous era, we cannot evade the harsh reality that the galaxy is already headed towards major conflict. It would be possible for the League to assume an isolationist stance vis a vis projecting force, and focusing trade efforts on alien empires that seem to be gaining the upper hand in their respective conflicts, but eventually it seems likely that, say, two super-powers that remain from these smaller conflicts will force the League to choose sides. In that potential scenario, it would be beneficial to have a robust industrial base, preferably spread across the galaxy, ready to be converted to war-time production needs. Not to mention the gnolamitarian aspect of liberating the populations of these oppressive autocrat regimes to the free society of the League. And, while somewhat distasteful, there is always a profit to be made from successful campaigns of opportunity... ----------------------------------------- nweismuller posted:This is one of the, if not the biggest middle finger the game throws at the player. The option we didn't pick here, Advanced City Planning, is a ridiculously fantastic bonus for any empire. It gives a flat-out +5 to the max population limit of all planets, no questions asked, and the same +5 stays even when terraforming the planets towards better biospheres. Given that it's mid-late game tech, usually one is bound to have a few planets at or near the population maximum, and these will pretty much instantly grow one or two units of population, and in the long run it enables maxing out most of your worlds at 20+ population, which needless to say makes all these planets absolute power-houses no matter which way one decides to focus their production. This isn't necessarily an "I win" button, but after one obtains ACP, the run-away effect makes it harder and harder for the AI to out-produce the player. And it's a choice between this or the requisite tech for one of the victory conditions!
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Oct 13, 2020 02:43
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The Tectonic Engineering thing is one of the few absolute trolls the tech tree throws at you, by the point in the game when you're researching this you're drowning in pollution and the Waste Dump is the only sensible choice. While it's great that as the Gnolam you make back more than usual from trade treaties, the way the game's diplomacy is broken it's still preferable to try and trade with everybody and make great friends, even the freaking Silicoid can be buddies with everyone utilizing this tactic.
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Mar 25, 2021 01:25
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Victis posted:Having not played this game, how far off are we tech-wise from defeating that dreadnought guarding Orion? Would it be worth the cost to throw ships at it? It's technically doable fairly early on, but the Gnolams are roughly at the point when you're approaching the situation where you can just destroy that thing without giving it much actual thought. That said, the League would have to invest major production resources for fleet-building for a good number of years (turns), and that might not be the most prudent choice right at this particular interjection. The planet Orion is very, very good in terms of game mechanics, but it's still not precisely an "I win"-button, and frankly it takes a bit of irritating micro-management to really get going by the time you're usually colonizing it. The Orion system was much better in MoO 2 in my opinion, but there was some randomness involved and it also took a lot of microing to really get going, so I don't think capturing Orion has negative diplomatic consequences in this game, but I'm not exactly sure. It's in a good position for the League, so there's no hurry about it, I think.
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Mar 30, 2021 17:33
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nweismuller posted:I'm going to need a tiebreaker between Megafluxers and High Energy focus. Next vote there breaks the tie. Fluxers it is, baby, just like Doc Brown invented!
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Apr 1, 2021 00:58
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 (with apologies to random Google kitty) I'm glad you had a fun time with the Mrrshans, and really, there's no time pressure on an LP, we readers like reading an update when it comes out, and that's all there's to it!
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Aug 10, 2021 08:51
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I have to say, if I were a jolly space cow about 1.2 meters tall and used to low gravity, I might not be too keen to go onto a world filled with towering carnivorous lizard people. Power armor or no.
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Aug 26, 2021 01:52
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Since you (or rather the illustrious Gnolam Mercantile League!) already have the planetary shield tech, I will say that it sort of trivializes the Antarans in this game. Eventually they get enough ships / bombs to get through, a little, but all in all, they were a much bigger pain in the butt in MoO2. Which admittedly makes it funnier when they go after someone snowballing ahead of you!
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Oct 20, 2021 07:09
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nweismuller posted:Another question: Yes, get the shield up.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:50
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I just looked at this with a random save, and it would appear that the game won't let you build a civil transport for the final little dude of a planet. You could ferry out the rest, I suppose. The joke here is that the planetary shield eats up the bio-bombs pretty efficiently.
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Oct 28, 2021 09:21
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a) Slightly off-topic, but: After "randomly looking at a save", I have spent a bit over 15 hours playing MoO. Thanks a lot, nweismuller! b) I will amend my statement about the shields a little, they do work well against bio-bombs, but you get into trouble once Antarans start sending nightmare fleets with 40+ bombs  But at least the player can guesstimate their bombing capabilities by the size of the incoming fleet.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:11
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As per our previous discussion, and since this is the only active nuMoO thread, I'll just share this here. I still blame nweismuller. Now I only have the Alkari and Bulrathi left...Yes, 
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Nov 7, 2021 09:58
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Xlorp posted:And I got my Silicoid Mastery merit badge. It's fun to sprawl without a care in the world for biome. My little Christmas miracle  
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Dec 18, 2021 08:13
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As the forum resident nuMoO apologist, I vote for continuing this too, if you feel up to it!
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Apr 25, 2023 02:03
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