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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Powered Descent posted:

s02e11 - Sheridan Gets an Anal Probe All Alone in the Night
  • The bit at the end, where our four EA-uniformed main characters form a patriotic conspiracy to save Earth from its government, hits a little differently now, after the whole January 6 thing last year. I'm sure the maga chuds conspiring to storm the capitol thought they were being all patriotic and saving America from itself too, and had conversations exactly like this. I suppose any conspiracy of this type that believes it's on the side of right is going to sound exactly like this, but recent history has me skittish of it even though we're clearly meant to be on their side.


I guess it's worth remembering that this is a conspiracy against a president who wasn't exactly popularly elected (only took office after the previous president died in what sure seemed like an assassination), and the real-world event you're talking about was in support of a similarly unpopularly-elected (and lame duck) president. We also had a bit of a situation of military officers doing a little ad-hoc thing making sure he wouldn't do any military orders on the way out of power out of spite, and if he refused to leave office, well then he'd be dragged out by force.

There's a bit of a weird set of historical inspirations in the show, but either way I think it works fine.

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sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







The unease you mention is still very on point though.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Yeah I don't think you're supposed to feel like this is fine, everything is fine.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Polaron posted:

PPGs fire balls of superhot plasma. Not really something you can add a stun setting to.

Back during the show's original run JMS once quipped on Prodigy or Usenet or one of those places that "Stun settings are for people who can't commit."

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010


Hello! Things have been really busy lately, but I'm finally getting back to B5. :woop:

s05e04 – A View From the Gallery
  • Oh gently caress yes, I’m 100% here for this gimmick
  • lmfao yesss I love this little 4th wall-breaking “what do these vacuums even do?” moment
  • lmao and the next 4th wall moment about why Ivanova left
  • anyways, fun little episode



s05e05 – Learning Curve
  • this awkward lunch scene is like a literal “veteran slaps down dissenter” chain letter down to the “and then everyone applauded” moment
  • the theme of this episode is that everyone is a n00b
  • The Minbari are going to use the Pak’ma’ra as couriers
  • lmfao at this slow-mo fight scene between the gangsters and the Minarbi Ranger
  • omfg come out with the Lochley reveal already

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



s02e13 - Hunter, Prey
  • I've long ago gotten accustomed to the early-CGI special effects, but the scene where Kosh's ship is composited behind the characters really sticks out. They might have made a higher-res texture map for the closeups.
  • I guess just about everyone ends up on Star Trek sooner or later; the guy from Earth heading the search also played Hudson, a Maquis guy from a DS9 episode.
  • Our friendly neighborhood conspirators really need to work out a spoken code phrase or something, so they don't have to resort to the "writing on one frame of the video" thing. The writing is both easily missed by the recipient and possibly discoverable by adversaries.
  • Garibaldi looks like Bogart in that hat. :) Kind of wanted him to say "The problems of four little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy station..."
  • I wonder what song the ship sang to the guy. Perhaps the ship is sadistic and it just sang "Baby Shark" over and over and over and over and


s02e14 - There All the Honor Lies
  • Quick, use the Extremely Conveniently Located Gun that definitely isn't part of an elaborate setup!
  • I kinda want some of that in-universe official B5 swag.
  • Ah, just like Vulcans, Minbari never lie. *Exaggerated winking meme image goes here*
  • The Gregorian chanting is pretty drat cool but I wonder if I'm missing some symbolism with the monks. Like, does Sheridan trading his uniform insignia for a song mark a point where he's giving up some of his military bearing (or loyalty?) and gaining a spiritual side? Or am I already reading too much into this? I'm just not sure what to make of the whole scene... but hey, neither is Sheridan, I think. Maybe it'll become clearer in hindsight once the story progresses.
  • Getting the bad guy to confess in front of witnesses was clever, and Sheridan's face-saving compromise made for a nice satisfying ending.
  • Aww, Londo DOES care about Vir! :3:
  • The bit at the very end with the teddy bear in space was... weird.
  • Talia only appears briefly, in one scene (where Vir spills his drink on her). It's a little odd to have her come in just for a cameo; if a main character is in an episode at all they're usually going to play an important part in it. I wonder if she originally had scenes that got cut for time.
  • This was a strange episode, but it had some really good bits.

Action Jacktion
Jun 3, 2003


Powered Descent posted:

s02e14 - There All the Honor Lies
  • Talia only appears briefly, in one scene (where Vir spills his drink on her). It's a little odd to have her come in just for a cameo; if a main character is in an episode at all they're usually going to play an important part in it. I wonder if she originally had scenes that got cut for time.

She did. In the original script when she bumps into Vir she sees a mental image of him screaming and falling into a dark vortex. They actually filmed that by putting Stephen Furst into a harness and dangling him in front of a green screen (he didn't have to try very hard to scream and act panicked), but it was cut, so Talia's appearance seems a bit pointless. Everything with Kosh was added by JMS, so elements of the original script had to be cut to fit it in. That's why Sheridan's lawyer has a big entrance but doesn't really do much. By the way, the lawyer was played by Julie Caitlin Brown, the actress who originally played Na'Toth.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



Action Jacktion posted:

She did. In the original script when she bumps into Vir she sees a mental image of him screaming and falling into a dark vortex. They actually filmed that by putting Stephen Furst into a harness and dangling him in front of a green screen (he didn't have to try very hard to scream and act panicked), but it was cut, so Talia's appearance seems a bit pointless. Everything with Kosh was added by JMS, so elements of the original script had to be cut to fit it in. That's why Sheridan's lawyer has a big entrance but doesn't really do much. By the way, the lawyer was played by Julie Caitlin Brown, the actress who originally played Na'Toth.

Really? Woohoo, that makes the second time I've guessed right about a production thing! (The first one was the addition of the B plot in Believers.)

But I also feel really unobservant for not even noticing that Na'Toth was re-cast.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Powered Descent posted:

s02e13 - Hunter, Prey
  • I've long ago gotten accustomed to the early-CGI special effects, but the scene where Kosh's ship is composited behind the characters really sticks out. They might have made a higher-res texture map for the closeups.


They never had the budget to composite live-action actors against CGI, all those composite scenes were done at 480i (actual actor scenes shot on film, composite scenes with CGI finished at 480i). It's going to be a long ride with that throughout the show, though it does improve.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010


s05e06 – Strange Relations
  • lmao of course Garibaldi has to eavesrop on Lochley & Delenn’s conversation
  • “this is where it begins to go badly for all of us” :ohdear:
  • lmao Lyta straight up stealing drugs with multiple witnesses like she’s not gonna get caught
  • they’ve been intermingling species on B5 this whole time and no one’s ever bother to study inter-species disease spread? :psyduck:
  • lmao I kinda figured Sheridan and Lochley had some kind of romantic relationship
  • and now G’Kar is going to be Londo’s bodyguard, which is probably why he’s on Centauri Prime when they both die
  • aaand we come full circle with the interstellar disease spread issue
  • So Bester’s just not going to bother keeping the rogue telepaths guarded during this 60-day escape window?
  • aw, if this is Londo and G’Kar’s big exit from B5, it’s really unceremonious :(
  • My gut is telling me that Lyta’s relationship with Byron isn’t going to end well. He gives me major cult leader / messiah complex vibes.


s05e07 – Secrets of the Soul
  • The medical team investigating strange foreign diseases without PPG
  • Zack: “There’s more going on here than they’re telling us” – yeah, no poo poo, dude.
  • and yeah, right on cue, the telepaths are evolving
  • Lyta, c’moooon, Byron is clearly love-bombing you
  • Awkward telepath has a Carrie moment before getting beat up, Byron’s group performs a psychic attack on the assailant
  • oh god Lyta don’t sleep with him, ughhh
  • oh gently caress, does Lyta have a hybrid baby? That’s what it looked like. And also goddamn, we get some shots of the Vorlon’s genetic manipulation. What an unnerving moment in an otherwise faily mediocre episode.
  • and now the Telepaths are going to fight for their own homeworld.


Kinda feel like season 5 is starting off a little on the blah side overall, but it also feels like the tension is starting to ratchet up. I'm glad that it seems like we're going to get to see the Telepath War; I was worried that was just going to be a random future footnote. Very curious to see where this is going. Totally not worried about the apparent dip in quality, though; I'd been warned that Season 5 takes a bit to get back up to greatness.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



discoukulele posted:

Kinda feel like season 5 is starting off a little on the blah side overall, but it also feels like the tension is starting to ratchet up. I'm glad that it seems like we're going to get to see the Telepath War; I was worried that was just going to be a random future footnote. Very curious to see where this is going. Totally not worried about the apparent dip in quality, though; I'd been warned that Season 5 takes a bit to get back up to greatness.

S4e18 was originally supposed to be the season 4 finale and the Earth civil war would've been wrapped up in early season 5. But when the show was canceled after season 4 they had to compress the end of the war into the remainder of season 4, and that left them with not much material for early season 5.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


ultrafilter posted:

S4e18 was originally supposed to be the season 4 finale and the Earth civil war would've been wrapped up in early season 5. But when the show was canceled after season 4 they had to compress the end of the war into the remainder of season 4, and that left them with not much material for early season 5.

(Early s5) Plus JMS's story notes got accidentally thrown away/stolen at a convention

vv I'd rather err on the side of caution

MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 27, 2022

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


MrL_JaKiri posted:

(Early s5)]Plus JMS's story notes got accidentally thrown away/stolen at a convention

Can we not use spoiler tags for things that aren’t spoilers? Particularly ITT?

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


discoukulele posted:

s05e07 – Secrets of the Soul
  • The medical team investigating strange foreign diseases without PPG


You wanted them to shoot the disease?

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






I'm sure he meant PPE

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010


Lmfaooo yes, that's what I meant.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004








MikusR posted:

You wanted them to shoot the disease?

Wrong sci-fi show. That's Voyager.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



s02e15 - And Now For a Word
  • Oh, the whole episode is the in-universe news special. This should be fun.
  • I suppose we couldn't really expect the warring parties to leave each other alone at the station just because it's "neutral". Casablanca situations are never entirely stable.
  • Last, best hope for peace... yeah, how's that whole peace thing going these days?
  • By straight-up threatening to fire on the station, Londo is making no friends at all in C&C these days.
  • The Psi Corps is my friend. I trust the Corps. (You know, I wonder what the total number of people is in the last 27 years who've rewound and freeze-framed that scene to read the subliminal text. Millions?)
  • Oof. Kind of a bleak ending.
  • Sheridan's whole thing about "When you stumble a lot, you tend to look down at your feet. We need to remember how to look up again" feels painfully relevant to the present day.


s02e16 - In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
  • There are a few real-world political figures who, if I should ever chance to meet them, I think I'll try to remember Vir's little speech to Morden and freely steal from it. *waves fingers*
  • I'm not crazy about the story being kicked off by such a long string of coincidences: Sheridan happens to be looking through his late wife's stuff, Garibaldi happens to idly scroll through headshots of the Icarus crew, and he happens to recognize one guy that has done nothing shady that would have attracted Garibaldi's notice, all on a day when the guy happens to be on the station. I mean, starting a story on a total coincidence usually isn't a problem (it's certainly better than resolving a story on one), but this one's kind of a stretch.
  • You know, I'm... not really on Sheridan's side here, weaseling out of little things like civil rights on a technicality which may or may not hold up.
  • Man, Franklin's about to lose it.
  • Man, Sheridan's about to lose it. :stare:
  • I'm sure this whole Night Watch thing is perfectly benign and definitely won't turn into the Space Hitler Youth or anything like that. Nope, no chance it's going to turn out to be evil, no sir re bob.
  • Vir, Garibaldi, Ivanova, Winters, and now Delenn and Kosh are telling him to knock that poo poo off. Practically the only one who hasn't spoken up yet is that dockworker guy.
  • Wait, are all Vorlons these ancient ones, or just Kosh?
  • The Enigma/Coventry story is mostly true, although it's disputed if they knew that Coventry specifically was to be the target. But the overall story is very true -- they sometimes had to deliberately allow an enemy operation because to take steps to foil it would reveal that the codes were broken wide open.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Powered Descent posted:

s02e16 - In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
  • Wait, are all Vorlons these ancient ones, or just Kosh?


Yes.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!








Grand Fromage posted:

Yeah I don't think you're supposed to feel like this is fine, everything is fine.

I think you naturally do though, because there are good guys and bad guys and you cheer for the good guys, but the show does its best to show you that you shouldn’t only see it that way.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



s02e17 - Knives
  • Ghost story episode! :ghost:
  • And may I just say that's a hell of a view from the baseball diamond. I'm sometimes a little sad that I'll never get to visit an O'Neill cylinder like B5 or Rama since they don't exist yet.
  • After seeing Sinclair shoot at his hallucination and damage the object d'art on the wall, I'm wondering about the rules for PPGs. They don't seem to damage walls or crates at all, so could a person just rig up a suit of armor out of crate material and be effectively bulletproof?
  • So the entire B4 reappearance is classified? Then what happened to the thousand people they rescued from it? There's no possible way all of those would keep the secret.
  • It's just occurred to me that this is the second episode in a row that Sheridan has been more than slightly off his rocker. Got to wonder what Garibaldi is thinking when he goes out to rein in Captain Crazypants again.
  • Great idea, Doc, let's go out and scoop up some more of the undetectable insanity spirits.
  • Oof, Londo's descent just got even more tragic. One more death on his hands, it's his best friend, and it's both indirectly and directly his doing.


s02e18 - Confessions and Lamentations
  • Oh boy, a pandemic episode, just the thing for a light diversion from the real world.
  • Saying the disease is 100% fatal is clear enough, but what does 100% contagious even mean?
  • A society in denial that the plague is even happening, haha, what a silly sci-fi notion :(
  • Quarantining the station is great as far as it goes, but I bet some ships have left recently, and there's no mention of trying to trace or contact those. Half-assed, leaky travel restrictions, haha, what a silly sci-fi notion :(
  • Cramming all the most vulnerable people together even though it'll speed up transmission, haha, what a silly sci-fi notion :(
  • You'd think the doctors would have some kind of way to work in the isolab without exposing themselves to the highly infectious patient within. Isolation suits, gasmasks, anything? Hell, drag a spacesuit down from the airlock, it'll work great.
  • Violence against innocent people because they happen to be from the place the plague originated, haha, what a silly sci-fi notion :(
  • "Sometimes, the test is not to find the answer but see how you react when you realize there is no answer." Star Trek is leaking, some Kobayashi Maru got in my B5.
  • Well. This episode was already a big downer but I was still not expecting it to end like THAT.
  • Last thought: this is not going to improve Dr. Franklin's already stretched-to-the-breaking-point mood.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Powered Descent posted:

I'm wondering about the rules for PPGs.

They're essentially firing balls of superhot plasma that will burn through soft tissue, but not heavier metal. This means that body armor is a thing, but it can't stand up to sustained fire without being too bulky/heavy to be practical. Actual projectiles are banned because you don't want them tearing holes in your hull. It's going to take A LOT of PPG shots to burn through the outer hull of a ship or station to the degree required for a breach, which is the goal.

(Also, PPG pistols are relatively low power and usually non-lethal at any sort of range for similar reasons. They'll cause a nasty burn, but also cauterize the wound they create, etc. etc. This is why the heavier rifle type weapons exist - they're higher power and more fatal, etc. etc.; See also, the earlier conversation in this thread, re: 'stun settings'. PPG's don't have that, but they do have variable amounts of power and a typical EA sidearm is shown as a 'mostly nonlethal' weapon.)

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 28, 2022

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007




Powered Descent posted:

s02e18 - Confessions and Lamentations
Saying the disease is 100% fatal is clear enough, but what does 100% contagious even mean?

I assume they mean transmission - come into contact with an infected person and there's a 100% chance of you being infected too.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



Four episode marathon last night to get to the end of season 2.

s02e19 - Divided Loyalties
  • Neat, it's the telepath from the original pilot episode.
  • Wait a minute... the way she wants to test everyone for the hidden implanted personality (that they wouldn't even be aware of) is to give them the trigger which will permanently erase their own personality if it switches them to Evil Mode? Everyone seems so blase about the possibility.
  • Been suspecting since season 1 that Ivanova took after her mother, at least a little.
  • Oh Garibaldi, you card. :allears:
  • Could Sheridan really not come up with any cover story at all for inviting everyone in one at a time (so that Lyta can potentially murder one of them)?
  • Aaaaand I guess she just killed Talia. Which I guess is better than leaving a spy around observing everything, but I still wonder if there was a less drastic way to ID the Manchurian candidate.
  • Did I miss something, or did they not explain who tried to shoot Lyta? It couldn't have been Talia, the evil personality was still just watching and observing and occasionally giving subconscious suggestions. (And isn't the whole security area covered by video anyway? Couldn't they look at those and see what they can see?)


s02e20 - The Long, Twilight Struggle
  • There's a superfluous comma in that episode title. :eng101:
  • Cool, the writers didn't forget about the guy down on the planet who took charge of all the mysterious alien machinery. And he namedropped Zathras -- I called it, the mysterious powerful alien stuff right next door DOES have something to do with the whole Babylon 4 situation.
  • It's always struck me as odd that the rest of the Centauri aren't the slightest bit curious about who Londo's allies are, or what they might want in return for this help. I suppose their power grab is making them short-sighted and aren't thinking any further than the Centauri throne.
  • Draal has sensed a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.
  • gently caress, poor Narns. :(


s02e21 - Comes the Inquisitor
  • G'Kar, street preacher.
  • So the guy acting like he's from Victorian London actually is from Victorian London. Wasn't expecting that.
  • That elevator scene with Vir and G'Kar is quite a little gut punch.
  • I haven't looked it up, but I bet the guy playing the Inquisitor is a stage actor. He just seems like one.
  • So the Inquisitor, the Vorlon-approved arbiter of what's true and right and good, is literally Jack the Ripper. :what:
  • Yeah, really not sure what to make of this episode overall.


s02e22 - The Fall of Night
  • I like the bit with Lennier and Vir commiserating. (Na'Toth might have been a fun addition to this, but I doubt she'd be willing to sit with Vir anyway.)
  • Garibaldi speaks for the viewer: most of the time you're mad as hell at Londo, but the rest of the time you just feel bad for him. He's become a villain, but he's not one you love to hate. You hate to hate him.
  • Incidentally, here's a thing I've noticed over a bunch of different episodes: the civilian suit jackets worn by many different characters are a nice bit of design. They're different enough from present-day style to be plausibly futuristic, but not so out-there that they become distracting.
  • Aw gently caress, this Narn cruiser is going to become a hell of a sticky situation.
  • And the Night Watch turns out to be creepy and fascist and evil, who could possibly have foreseen such a thing?
  • Aw gently caress, Sheridan and the Ministry of Peace guy just made opposite promises to opposing parties.
  • Aw gently caress, the Centauri have showed up and-- OH gently caress
  • God, this whole situation is such a tangled clusterfuck. I'm not even sure what the "correct" course of action was, or if there was one at all. I mean, yeah, it's good that Sheridan kept his word and helped the Narns, but at the risk of going to war with the Centauri and possibly killing millions. Is it worth it? I have no idea.
  • Welp, bye Mr. [checks notes] Keffer. We hardly knew ye... in fact I've always kind of wondered why you're listed in the opening credits -- you got a bit of screen time but not much in the way of character development.
  • Physics nitpick: they're right that he'd be kinda-sorta weightless up there, but he wouldn't just drift weightlessly until he smacked into the spinning wall (er, ground): the air is rotating along with everything else, so as he drifts "downward", wind will start to blow him along more and more strongly, which will accelerate his "fall".
  • I was not expecting to see Kosh out of his suit -- I figured if it came at all, it'd be at the end of the entire series. And I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it wasn't a glowing angel of light. Not sure if I like that or not.
  • But I DO like that everyone saw him as a different representation of good, each based on their own background and mythology. And Londo seeing nothing at all... oof.
  • ...Did Sinclair still have to do the apology?
  • Welp, as long as the Shadows don't know that the good guys know about-- OH gently caress

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Powered Descent posted:

s02e22 - The Fall of Night
  • Aw gently caress
  • Aw gently caress
  • OH gently caress
  • OH gently caress

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


The costume design is pretty universally excellent in B5, it's a large part of what makes the show work

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002



Powered Descent posted:

S02E22

Welp, bye Mr. [checks notes] Keffer. We hardly knew ye... in fact I've always kind of wondered why you're listed in the opening credits -- you got a bit of screen time but not much in the way of character development.

Keffer was a studio-suggested (mandated?) hotshot pilot character. JMS gave in to the minimum degree possible, and then got his revenge.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Powered Descent posted:

Four episode marathon last night to get to the end of season 2.

s02e19 - Divided Loyalties
    :
  • Could Sheridan really not come up with any cover story at all for inviting everyone in one at a time (so that Lyta can potentially murder one of them)?
  • Aaaaand I guess she just killed Talia. Which I guess is better than leaving a spy around observing everything, but I still wonder if there was a less drastic way to ID the Manchurian candidate.



Behind the scenes Tl;dr, the actress playing Talia wanted off the show, so JMS took this double-agent plot he’d been cooking up anyway, that, presumably had a happier end in mind, and changed who said double agent was to Talia and used it as a way to write her off the show and Lyta back on to it. There are a few instances like this throughout the run - Sinclair-> Sheridan is the most obvious one. JMS often referred to them as “trapdoors” through which he could write anyone off at a moments notice while preserving the momentum of the story he was trying to tell.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



Chevy Slyme posted:

Behind the scenes Tl;dr, the actress playing Talia wanted off the show, so JMS took this double-agent plot he’d been cooking up anyway, that, presumably had a happier end in mind, and changed who said double agent was to Talia and used it as a way to write her off the show and Lyta back on to it. There are a few instances like this throughout the run - Sinclair-> Sheridan is the most obvious one. JMS often referred to them as “trapdoors” through which he could write anyone off at a moments notice while preserving the momentum of the story he was trying to tell.

Talia was meant to be the double agent for as long as she was on the show. The change happened between the pilot and season one; Lyta was not intended to be the spy in the pilot.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



Winifred Madgers posted:

Keffer was a studio-suggested (mandated?) hotshot pilot character. JMS gave in to the minimum degree possible, and then got his revenge.

Chevy Slyme posted:

Behind the scenes Tl;dr, the actress playing Talia wanted off the show, so JMS took this double-agent plot he’d been cooking up anyway, that, presumably had a happier end in mind, and changed who said double agent was to Talia and used it as a way to write her off the show and Lyta back on to it. There are a few instances like this throughout the run - Sinclair-> Sheridan is the most obvious one. JMS often referred to them as “trapdoors” through which he could write anyone off at a moments notice while preserving the momentum of the story he was trying to tell.

It's amazing how many of these little oddities are directly attributable to production drama. Thanks for the info!

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




ultrafilter posted:

Talia was meant to be the double agent for as long as she was on the show. The change happened between the pilot and season one; Lyta was not intended to be the spy in the pilot.

Yeah. IIRC the weird season 1 ep where Kosh and the computer brain dude were loving around with her was recording her personality somehow so she could be restored afterward since Kosh knew what was going on, but since the actress was leaving there was no need and now it's just this bit that goes nowhere.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

ultrafilter posted:

Talia was meant to be the double agent for as long as she was on the show. The change happened between the pilot and season one; Lyta was not intended to be the spy in the pilot.

The plan as of the pilot was to have the original XO Laurel Takashima be the mole with the Control personality (as well as being the person who shot Garibaldi in the back in the Season 1 finale), but the actress didn't continue in the role for the show's run. The pilot has a scene where the Minbari assassin uses her access code to get through a door to do his thing, which is supposed to be a clue.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


ultrafilter posted:

Talia was meant to be the double agent for as long as she was on the show. The change happened between the pilot and season one; Lyta was not intended to be the spy in the pilot.

My bad on the first part. Though, yes the original Control was Takashima It is, as I understand it, still true that the resolution of the whole affair was pivoted into a way to write her off the show when that need arose.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Grand Fromage posted:

Yeah. IIRC the weird season 1 ep where Kosh and the computer brain dude were loving around with her was recording her personality somehow so she could be restored afterward since Kosh knew what was going on, but since the actress was leaving there was no need and now it's just this bit that goes nowhere.

Yeah. The whole (S1:)Ironheart thing was also supposed to be much more important as a result. When they had to write off Talia :siren: spoilers after this from beyond S2 beware Powered Descent) :siren: they were lucky to be able to get Lyta back and basically replaced Ironhearts Gift with Vorlon Bioengineering Magic Stuff to achieve mostly the same plot beats that were planned for Talia.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Powered Descent posted:

s02e22 - The Fall of Night

[*] Physics nitpick: they're right that he'd be kinda-sorta weightless up there, but he wouldn't just drift weightlessly until he smacked into the spinning wall (er, ground): the air is rotating along with everything else, so as he drifts "downward", wind will start to blow him along more and more strongly, which will accelerate his "fall".


We do see him leap out, which would give him a bit of momentum, and the blast-wave from the explosive would presumably propel him downward faster even before he arrives at the wind.

More to the point, it's Ivanova's understanding of what's happening that we're getting. She doesn't have to be right, and it's a good character moment if she's being obtusely optimistic at this moment given her usual personality. She doesn't want to admit that there's nothing that can be done in time.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000



I read this whole thread as I just started watching B5 a couple of weeks ago. I’m almost done season 4. It’s not really a blind watch for me as I watched it back in the mid 90s when it was on TV but I haven’t seen it since then.

I think it’s held up pretty well. It’s definitely a product of the 90s but I appreciate dialogue that takes things seriously and isn’t quips and jokes the entire time. I also like that it trusts viewers to understand what characters are feeling and doesn’t have everyone explain their emotional state every few minutes.

Josh the Zorlon was a good bit.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010


s05e08 – Day of the Dead
  • Made an audible groan when Penn and Teller showed up.
  • Lennier!
  • Sorry, I know they were having their heyday back then, but ugh this cameo decision is so weird. Lochley is the only person having an appropriate response to this and now I like her. I think what makes it so groan-worthy for me is that they’re playing themselves.
  • Londo gets visited by Adira
  • Dodger!
  • Lochley gets visited by Zoe. I’m not clear if she was a former friend or lover.
  • Oh poo poo, it’s Morden
  • Morden implies that Lennier will betray the Rangers
  • Lochley’s password is literally “Zoe’s dead”?
  • ghost sex
  • vague message from Kosh - “When the long night comes, return to the end of the beginning.”


s05e09 – In the Kingdom of the Blind
  • widespread attacks happening
  • feels like this should’ve happened right after episode 6
  • the regent has been infected with a parasite for, what, a season or so?
  • Byron using the blackmail route to get a homeworld
  • Londo survived an assassination attempt thanks to a creepy-rear end telekinetic thing
  • The Regent got strangled, so I’m assuming Londo will ascend now
  • Lyta’s locked up on hunger strike with Byron

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Beefeater1980 posted:

I think you naturally do though, because there are good guys and bad guys and you cheer for the good guys, but the show does its best to show you that you shouldn’t only see it that way.

On top of everything else, the main characters we're supposed to be rooting for, and the audience, have seen incontrovertible evidence that Clarke assassinated Santiago. Garibaldi saw the bombs and Ivanova overheard Clarke conspiring with a known Shadow agent. Even with that, feeling uncomfortable is right, even Our Heroes do and they know they're right.

mllaneza fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Feb 3, 2022

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







I love penn and teller being incomprehensibly unfunny but everyone cracking up

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Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.



Taking a brief B5 break since my watching partner is out of town again, but I decided to go back and look up one of my guesses:

Powered Descent posted:

s02e21 - Comes the Inquisitor
  • I haven't looked it up, but I bet the guy playing the Inquisitor is a stage actor. He just seems like one.


Quoth IMDB:

IMDB on Wayne Alexander posted:

He received his training at the Los Angeles City College Theater Academy and went on to the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco to receive his baptism by fire into what it meant to have a life in the theater, appearing in over 25 productions there. The training he received performing in repertory has held him in good stead ever since. At ACT he also learned stage fencing, which lead to theater work as a fight choreographer. His theater work, doing mostly classical theater in Los Angeles, has put him on a first name basis with Shakespeare's Hamlet, Romeo, Benedick, Iago, Proteus, Berowne, Claudio and Edmund the Bastard, to name a few.

Totally called it. He just has that... theater presence.

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