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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

TheAardvark posted:

also I will just get it out of the way:

the CGI is so horrible as to be jarring during some scenes and I am actively closing my eyes to ignore it at points

It was very very very good for the time, but unfortunately the original assets were mostly lost which is why it looks so bad now, you're seeing like the 4:3 what rendered for an SD TV broadcast iteration of it. IIRC some of it has been found+restored in fan stuff and looks really good.

This show is so insanely loving good. My wife had never seen it so we did a full watch of it a year or two ago it was so awesome to see someone's reactions to it for the first time. Also was absolutely stunned at how consistently good it is. There's some cheesy/not great episodes but no straight up clunkers.

Also that little detail you mention in your first post. I know Star Trek does have aliens that aren't human but with a different nose/forehead but Babylon 5 really did a great job of selling that that was a regular thing with the non-oxygen breathing area you mention, there being a deck just for aliens that aren't as humanoid, etc.. It's crazy how much they get across in that show despite some major budget limitations - depending on how you're watching it, when they're on the Centauri home world during the throne room scenes, you can see the large cardboard tubes holding up the curtains because there's just nothing else back there. :perfect:

The cast is so loving good though it doesn't even matter like everyone just sells it 100% to me.



The Unlife Aquatic posted:

It's always so great to see new people watch for the first time. I'm rooting for y'all!


MonsieurChoc posted:

One of the great things about B5 is the characters. I'm on the edge of my seat to see if the blind watchers will like the characters I like.


TraderStav posted:

There was a long time (at least a year?) between the filming of the pilot and them getting the first season order so a few of the actors were no longer available come S01E01. Some 'refinements' were also made, such as the makeup you addressed.

So happy about this thread, this is giving me much needed joy in this awful time we're in right now.

PLEASE KEEP CHUGGING FORWARD AND SHARING EVERY STRAY THOUGHT AND OBSERVATION

When you're done with the series. Join us in the main discussion thread.

Well, look at that, the suns coming up.

All of this. :hfive:

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jun 2, 2020

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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Torrannor posted:

It's really cool to see all of you happily watch B5. And you're fortunate, you don't have to wait a week between each new episode, or even months between seasons, like we had to back in the day. You can watch it at your own pace. :)

Something interesting that does reveal with the show, you'll see a lot of episodes where some information seems to be redundantly repeated from one episode to the next, but it's because originally folks were waiting a week between episodes so like drat. I can't barely even imagine that now though plenty of shows still air an episode week.

This and Twin Peaks and X-Files were considered very experimental for their time and now successful for really getting TV storyline plotting as we know it now off the ground.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

TraderStav posted:

Seriously, if they are fully engaged on Season 1, they are going to explode with joy watching the rest of the series.

I still remember seeing the season 3 intro for the first time, like, drat.


Not that characters in DS9/etc. sci-fi shows of the time didn't go through serious poo poo, but when I watched it again I really respected how much the writing of the show puts most of the cast through the loving ringer on an emotional and existential level in ways a lot of those other shows just, like, didn't.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Zathras :perfect:

It's been so awesome seeing folks' reactions to this wonderful show. It's been really hard to talk about because I don't want to inadvertently effect anyone's expectations.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

Not really a spoiler to answer at least the one question, B5's population is around a quarter million. One of the season opening credits says it I think.

This is correct. Not really a spoiler just general observation, I always liked that it was a relatively small number compared to lot of large cities irl because the amount of people actually for real living on the station or assigned to it for a length of time is pretty small compared to how much of it is the infrastructure that keeps it going and communal spaces/food production/etc. type of stuff. There's a few amusingly dated calls about how certain stuff things work in the future but at the same time it's very real in a lot of ways a lot of the other 90s sci-fi shows never really went for.


DS9 was similar, it has a capacity 7,000 people but the actual for real there full time population is something crazy small for the size of the station like < 1000 people because its original purpose was that of an ore processing plant and most of the station is just storage space. I think the actual complement was only 300.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Vavrek posted:

†They always say the station is five miles long, but a production designer explained in an interview that it's the living section that's five miles, while the whole station was about eight miles long, according to how they'd designed and built the 3d model.

I never knew this, I too thought the entire station was five miles.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Polaron posted:

I hope you guys keep these lists around so you can revisit them when you finish the show.

Same, this is the best thread

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Jedit posted:

He might have to change his avatar first.

"Actually mom it's ironic because as you can see from the flashing text the mods of the extremely not vulgar Something Awful forums will NOT make this someone's avatar"

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

The_Doctor posted:

Nothing super memorable so far really, soundtrack-wise. During S1 Franke seemed very fond of just playing the theme tune during action sequences, which felt slightly lazy, but it’s a good theme.

I am interested to see what folks think of it as it goes on. It's interesting in that each season as besides the intro changing there's some unique score in each season.


JMS switched composers for the spin off series Crusade and the movie that leads into that and like, I appreciate him wanting to go for a different feel since they were introducing a new crew/scenario/everything to get a different kind of show going but dang. I didn't like what the new person had made at all. But I haven't seen Crusade in so long I can barely remember the music at all now.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Finger Prince posted:

Josh the Zorlon is a little more (other)worldly, and enjoys a cool Sam Adams now and then.

In this way, we are all Josh.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

The_Doctor posted:

Are these the 2200s Folgers kids? The way they’re holding hands in the restaurant later, is this his sister or an old flame?

Non Babylon 5 spoiler context for anyone who didn't cough milk through their nose with laughter at how :perfect: The_Doctor's description here is:

That Foldgers comercial


Also hell yeah Morden's "one thing at a time," it's really impressive how chilling that character can be.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

TheAardvark posted:

great now I'm wondering what Narn genitalia is like. it can't be nearly as bad as Centauris

A lot of reptile genitalia like turtles as an example, the erect dong is like 1/4 the length of turtle's entire body probably tied with the Centauri.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

I thought they were dumb when the show was new but as I got older I came to, well, they're still pretty dumb but I'm down and I can see why they'd exist in the setting. I agree that Michael Ansara does most of the heavy lifting for the entire concept though. I think they play well into the sense of wonder the show often goes for, like it figures that some humans would build themselves up to be the hand holding the strings with that even if the reality is computer expert that also LARPs.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Jun 18, 2020

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

sebmojo posted:

HYPERSPACE JOE BIDEN is a good user name

ON BABYLON 5 I LEARNED A LOT. AND I LEARNED THAT IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. THIS WAS THE DAWN OF THE THIRD AGE, AND I WAS ONE OF THE GUARDS, AND THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO - IT WAS A 3-SECTOR BOARD. AND IF YOU FELL OFF SIDEWAYS, YOU LANDED IN THE drat, ER, DARN BROWN SECTOR OVER THERE.

AND CORN POP WAS A BRAKIRI. AND HE RAN A BUNCH OF BAD BOYS, AND I DID AND BACK IN THOSE DAYS - TO SHOW HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED - ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAD TO USE, IF YOU USED POMADE IN YOUR CREST, YOU HAD TO WEAR A BULB COVER. AND SO HE WAS UP ON THE BOARD AND WOULDN'T LISTEN TO ME. I SAID, "HEY, BULBHEAD, YOU! OFF THE BOARD, OR WE'LL DRAG YOU OFF" WELL, HE CAME OFF, AND HE SAID, "I'LL MEET YOU ON THE ALIEN HABITAT DECK."

MY SHUTTLE THIS WAS MOSTLY, THESE WERE ALL ALIEN HABITAT QUARTERS BEHIND US - MY SHUTTLE, THERE WAS A BULKHEAD NEAR THERE. I LANDED MY SHUTTLE OUTSIDE THE BAY DOORS. AND I - HE SAID, "I'LL BE WAITING FOR YOU." HE WAS WAITING FOR ME WITH THREE GUYS WITH KNIVES. NOT A JOKE. THERE WAS A NARN NAMED BILL WRIGHT MOUSE THE ONLY GREEN GUY AND HE DID ALL BLUE SECTOR. HE WAS A MECHANIC. AND I SAID, "WHAT AM I GONNA DO?" AND HE SAID. "COME DOWN HERE TO BLUE SECTOR, WHERE MECHANICS - ALL MECHANICS - WHERE ALL THE BLUE SECTOR BUILDERS IS." YOU KNOW THE PARTICLE PROJECTION GUN, THERE USE TO BE A PARTICLE PROJECTION GUN THAT WENT ACROSS THE DEEP END. AND HE CHARGE UP A PARTICLE PROJECTION GUN, AND FOLDED IT UP AND HE SAID, "YOU WALK OUT WITH THAT PPG, AND YOU WALK TO THE SHUTTLE AND SAY, "YOU MAY CUT ME MAN, BUT I'M GONNA DISPLACE THE MOLECULES AROUND YOUR HEAD."

I SAID, "YOU'RE KIDDING ME," HE SAID, NO IF YOU DON'T, DON'T COME BACK TO BLUE SECTOR." AND HE WAS RIGHT. SO I WALKED OUT WITH THE PPG. AND I WALKED UP TO MY SHUTTLE, AND IN THOSE DAYS, YOU REMEMBER KNIVES, YOU HAD TO DIP THEM IN DILGAR BLOOD TO GET'EM RUSTY, PUTTIN' EM IN THE FUEL BARREL, GETTIN' EM RUSTY? AND I LOOKED AT HIM, BUT I WAS SMART, THEN. I SAID, "FIRST OF ALL," I SAID, "WHEN I TELL YOU TO GET OFF THE BOARD, YOU GET OFF THE BOARD, AND I'LL KICK YOU OUT AGAIN, BUT I SHOULDN'T HAVE CALLED YOU BULBHEAD, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. I APOLOGIZE. THE MOLECULES OF YOUR BODY AS THE SAME MOLECULES THAT MAKE UP THIS STATION, AND THE NEBULA OUTSIDE, THAT BURN INSIDE STARS THEMSELVES. WE ARE STARSTUFF. WE ARE THE UNIVERSE MADE MANIFEST, TRYING TO FIGURE ITSELF OUT. AND AS WE HAVE BOTH LEARNED, SOMETIMES THE UNIVERSE REQUIRES A CHANGE OF PERSPECTIVE. I APOLOGIZE." BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT MINBARI PHILOSOPHY WAS GONNA WORK.

HE SAID, "YOU APOLOGIZE TO ME?" I SAID, "I APOLOGIZE BUT NOT FOR THROWING YOU OUT, BUT I APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT I SAID." HE SAID "OK," CLOSED THE KNIFE, AND MY HEART BEGAN TO BEAT AGAIN.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

The subtitles on Prime suck because of Prime. So here's the deal, you know how sometimes when you look up something on Prime there's more than on version of it? Sometimes that's just because two different distributors put the movie out at some point. You'll see that often for like 70s grindhouse movies or whatever, like how you can look up Death Machines and see five different versions of it from different folks of varying video quality).

The thing is that on top of that, the search/etc. for Prime Instant Video and just Amazon Prime in general overlap with each other. As in it's two totally separate databases that you're looking up something on at the same time, of which it's not supposed to show duplicates but sometimes some oddness happens. IIRC they don't actually update the subtitles when stuff comes out again and just use whatever from older versions so you're seeing is probably some rushed subtitle job from some random station in the 90s (as someone said, a different time meant to be understood quickly by someone casually flipping channels) or like Prime subtitles that were done like over a decade ago for some point when it was briefly available.

On top of that Prime's actual subtitle quality has always been kind of off for anything not distributed by Amazon itself or not a $$$ production.

I believe Plex pulls from OpenSubtitles.org which generally has significantly more accurate tracks to choose from.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

TheAardvark posted:

Yeah let's be clear here I don't think it's anything wrong with the show, it's certainly because of Prime. It's just a bit annoying, as someone with significant hearing loss, when subtitles don't match.

It really is, my wife has some difficulty with this too and since we watch a lot of odd 70s movies that went through the ringer of many dubs/subs/cuts/releases we'll often :filez: something to watch on Plex or VLC (it can also pull from OpenSubtitles) solely to have the holy grail intersection of "the movie is uncut" and "the English subtitles are accurate." It feels like such a weird issue to even exist today. I wish there was some mechanism by which you could take a subtitle file and and tell Prime/Netflix/etc. to use that for ___ show or something.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Dr. Stab posted:

There is, at least for Netflix: ctrl+alt+shift+t

:aaaaa: I had no idea, this rules!

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

With Big Zima gone coffee companies are able to ship actual beans to Babylon 5 freely.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

TheAardvark posted:

I am pretty surprised that the Centauri are just accepting of the fact that they just took a colony by an impossible show of force.
Wouldn't there be a lot of people in the court (Refa especially) who would be wondering what Londo had gotten them in bed with?


The real explanation for stuff like that is always so the story can continue, but to me even the episodes seen so far support this. They put on a sophisticated air and the costumes and stuff give off strong Napoleonic France energy, but to me the Centauri ruling folks we see seem way more violence-focused and feudal in a Roman empire sort of way where like, other Centauri see Londo pull that off, it's not "how the gently caress did he do that," it's "clearly the Molari family is extremely prosperous, maybe this guy could be emperor some day", like, we conquered the Narn, ergo the Narn are dogshit compared to us.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Midjack posted:

There's some ritualized repetition in real world military, aircraft, and ship operation that sounds clunky as hell so that's not totally inaccurate.

From a character/dramatic standpoint, I always found it weirder in TNG in particular when [regular character] shows up to their post on the bridge and [extra] just wanders off without a word.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Yeah IIRC 60 is the magic age for Babylon 5 cast members :(

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

YESSSS I've been waiting to see folks reaction to these episodes, this thread is amazing

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Extremely hype to see folks' reactions to how season 3's first episodes start and play out

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

The_Doctor posted:

Don’t tell me how to watch TV, thanks. Unless it’s a better episode order like earlier this season or something. Then tell me how to watch it.

One "episode" order thing is the other movies besides The Gathering. It's not quite as pat as just watching the series and then watching the movies due to when some of them were meant to take place vs. when they finally got released vs. things that they spoil/when they matter in the show.

I'd recommend this order:

Thirdspace - This movie is a one off story that takes place during season 4 of Babylon 5, and it's a pretty fun interlude! The best point to watch it is after episode 8 of season 4.

In the Beginning - I like this flick, a lot of flashback and later scenes that flesh out some of the earlier setup for the show, yet instead of watching it first like a pilot (and like some lists recommend doing!) it "takes place" at a very very specific point in the series. Thematically and spoiler-wise the best point to watch it is right after episode 9 of season 4.

River of Souls - This one takes place a few months after season 5 ends, so of course don't watch it til you finish that.

A Call to Arms - This movie is very uneven imo but overall it has some really really cool world building and implications of stuff for how the setting is going to go. However it is also meant to introduce us to the cast of the spin off series, Crusade, so obviously don't watch this til you've seen all of seasons 1 through 5 and those three other movies because this is basically it (unless you plan to watch Crusade as well).

That leaves us with two more, Legend of the Rangers and Lost Tales: Voices in the Dark. Legend of the Rangers was the unsuccessful pilot for another spin off series but it's pretty goofy (and also has that particularly stupid weapons system you may have seen YouTube clips of). You can definitely see why it didn't inspire anyone to pick it up. It feels kind of last gasp honestly, B5's characters grabbed me relatively fast, but these folks all feel aggressively stock imo, like sci-fi show clip art. Some of the humor really does land though. It takes place sort of during season 5 but I wouldn't consider it essential viewing.

Lost Tales: Voices in the Dark is from 2007. If you want to see a couple of B5 characters way past their prime sitting in front of green screens talking about stuff, then, ugh, I'd probably still skip it.


That leaves one other thing, Sleeping in the Light. This was the last episode of season 5. Some people recommend making this the very final Babylon 5 thing you watch. And that's fine, but just watching it whenever you go through season 5 is fine too imo.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 9, 2020

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Doctor Zero posted:

On the other hand, some people don't even look up future episode titles, so best to err on the side of caution. IMO the "blind watch" should be as close to the pure 1st time viewing experience as possible.

i'm sort of jealous that that's even possible, like for the movies especially and how they play (or don't) off the show? There were plenty of extensive tv spots and articles about their purpose and stuff like that weeks before they aired so the knowledge you had going in was waaaaay more than the descriptions I gave. This went for the show itself too, "next week, on Babylon 5" and "coming on up tonight's episode of Babylon 5" was a thing.

Like if you had your TV on at all and were tuning in to any TV show, a blind watch as we'd define it now isn't at all what that pure 1st time viewing experience would be.

And for truly great TV like Babylon 5 that's fine imo, when you have such strong actor chemistry and performances? Having a general idea of "x/y/z is the setup for this episode" doesn't really hurt it much to me when how the major events play out is still going to be a surprise.

Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

Well what's a "pure" experience though? Should we enforce that they watch by air date only? That seems rather presumptuous, and if someone does want a "when is best storywise" order I'd rather someone give that in here than forcing them out into searching the internet at large with spoiler landmines galore.

That was part of why I posted the way I did, I was going to find a link to post originally but like, holy poo poo SPOILERS. :wtc:

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 10, 2020

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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

People always talk about brining wormholes but has anyone tried brining wormholes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPMykKojRQ8

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