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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I think I've heard that a whole lot about Londo was just Peter Jurasik's decisions. Like how apparently the original plan was that he'd have a much smaller crest.

VideoGames posted:

1-12 By Any Means Necessary

Holy moly did this episode feel perfect for these troubled times.


That's just how unionbusters are. They don't care about what's reasonable, they don't care that they can easily improve working conditions, they just know that they pushed the HR costs as far down as they could, and they're definitely not going to raise their costs if they can help it. And the cops don't care about the plight of the working class, they get paid to knock around unfortunate schlubs with no better options all day. It's great that Sinclair told the rear end in a top hat to gently caress off.

I guess that's less of a spoiler for a show than it is a spoiler for the real world. If you haven't reached the 2010s yet don't read this:
In lieu of innovation, a lot of newer businesses prefer to just figure out elaborate ways around labor laws. Recent attempts at strikes against hazardous work conditions met with reprisals against the organizers.

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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


He just straight-up says, "Mr. Molden", and I don't think there are many real human accents that turn a vowel R into a consonant L.

Delenn's exotic accent comes from the more traditional place of having moved to America just a year earlier and still having some trouble with the language.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The_Doctor posted:

S2ep08 - A Race Through Dark Places

I feel like the show is inconsistent on lot of the logistical issues about the station, although it's still some fun detail whenever they come up.

I feel like a situation like psychics where it's demonstrably provable that there's real measurable advantages to certain genetic combinations over others, that's the only basis on which eugenics really begins to make sense. Like most human phenotypes you could use for trying to breed a new, different kind of human are totally pointless to breed for in the grand scheme of things, but if you could breed people to have laser eyes with eugenics or something like that, THEN it becomes something worth thinking about. And even then, highly questionable.

And if you watched the pilot movie that came out before the rest of the show, this isn't even the first time this subject has been brought up. G'Kar had his own interests in borrowing some human genome.

Also, APCAB.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


From the look of IMDB, they've both been in plenty, for some typical TV actor careers, although reality spoilers: Katsulas died in 2006, so that's a reason why he hasn't been in that much after B5. An uncomfortable amount of the cast of Babylon 5 is dead, especially compared to an older show like Star Trek Next Generation, so back in the TVIV thread, there's talk of a B5 curse.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


TheAardvark posted:

S2E12:

I think I said it before but yeah it is somehow the hardest suspension of disbelief in the series for me that there is an underbelly on Babylon 5 that they let drifters and poor people sink down to. Not because the society we've seen is above that - with Psicorps in charge it's not a surprise at all. Just that the extreme expense of getting someone out to Babylon 5 seems like it would totally preclude that kind of society from ever forming.

There's a real-world comparison there: Hawaii has one of the highest homeless rates in the country. It's expensive to get there, but that also means that if you do manage to get there, or if you're just hit by bad luck and can't afford a home any more, you're stuck there because you can't afford to leave for opportunity elsewhere, and you're isolated from family or friends that could help you.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


TheAardvark posted:

Exactly. I'm aware of the in-universe explanations we've been given, it's just they've given us enough information about everything else that the in-universe explanation seems like nonsense. This is the hub of trade for all of these races, the brown section would be completely booked out by traders from every race years before the station opened. I'm not complaining, I realize the need for it and I don't let it bother me while I'm watching the show, but it is still ridiculous on face value.

You try getting people to reserve rooms on the Titanic V with the tagline "We're pretty sure that this one won't mysteriously vanish without a trace like the last one did, or explode like the 3 before that".

I think the main idea is that Down Below wasn't intended for habitation, but just wound up being the place where the overflow went after they started to build up. People weren't meant to be living around the waste reclamation facilities. Much of it was also unfinished, so it's basically people setting up shop in an empty crawlspace. Clearing them out would be expensive, and B5's always having budget trouble.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


TheAardvark posted:

S2E18 - Confessions and Lamentations

I feel like this episode hits so much harder on the points that Believers was trying to make, while also showing the positive side of religion, Delenn's willingness to risk herself to help others. The ending had much more of a punch to it as well, with all the visuals leading into it.

I'd even say that while the episode feels extremely relevant because of being literally about a plague, it can also be taken figuratively to be about any other kind of problem that people just train themselves to ignore with social norms. The income gap often gets ignored by people believing that the wealthy deserve their wealth and the poor deserve their lack of wealth. Obesity, mental health, addiction, and STDs often get treated as personal failings rather than health issues. I think that's also a large part of the Me Too movement, having to overpower the old social norms of "boys will be boys" or "if she's dressed slutty she's basically asking for sexual harrassment", and there's still a lot of work being done against the old norms and trying to figure out how to put new norms in place.

And of course, the end where if you only can start to respond to the problem at the very last moment, then, well...that could be relevant for other reasons.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Something that I really, really like about Babylon 5 that's really been on display in the last few episodes is that they're so willing to do big group scenes that I just don't feel like Star Trek ever does. They're willing to have just a whole bunch of extras milling about in the background or if the crowd itself and what they're doing is the focus of the scene. Not just random extras either, there's always plenty of alien species around unless there's a specific reason why they can't be there. It's a real gallimaufry look.

And in service of that, so many of the sets are these big rooms with plenty of depth and room for people to do their thing. And the general look applies to the space scenes too, because while the dated look is a little rough, there are constantly way more ships and objects onscreen than you could afford on a TV budget if they were real miniatures.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I don't remember if you watched the pilot movie, The Gathering, but it may be relevant to your speculation.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


TheAardvark posted:

S2E21
I saw The Gathering and in Lyta's mind Kosh had a human hand when he got poisoned. However I have never put much faith in anything from that - the entire thing could be bologna fed to Lyta and the doctor from the pilot. hell the entire plot of the pilot could have been another one of Kosh's little tests.

actually the more I think about it the more I like the idea of the The_Doctor's Childhood's End theory because that would be cool if it turned out all the races also had history of devil types that looked exactly the same as earth ones


E: about to watch the S2 finale

I didn't even remember that bit.

What I do remember is that the original doctor seemed pretty amazed at the whole experience of seeing Kosh inside his suit, and maybe it was part of the justification for shipping him back to earth when the actor didn't sign up for the TV show.

Which honestly could mean anything.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


One of the easier aliens to do was basically just a gas mask.



There was one alien who was just a puppet. But if you're watching season 2, you probably noticed that he stopped showing up because the showrunners weren't satisfied with the effect. Which I feel is a shame.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


One of the fundamentals of the technological future that B5 presents is that nobody ever figured out an alternative to CRTs, so screens never became easily portable.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Personally, I thought the barfight was the most impressive visual of the episode. Even if the bombing of Narn with that zoom in on Londo in the ship is probably more technically challenging.

It probably costs a fair amount to get all those people fighting onscreen, and it really displays how so many of Babylon 5's sets have a lot of depth to them, even though they don't often get a chance to play with that depth.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Personally I feel like the purest experience is catching a few episodes in bits and pieces and hearing friends make comments on parts of the show that you haven't seen before finally knuckling down to watch the whole show and find out that most of the connective tissue that you imagined was in the gaps that you missed wasn't what you expected it was.

But this isn't the place for my grand theory of messy viewing, because this is a little environment specially carved out for no spoiling, which is fine. There's a different place to go to talk freely.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The_Doctor posted:


Christ, this Night Watch woman works for the trump administration. Its so weird that she’s a 1995 caricature of right wing thinking, but it’s all so eerily present day. “Pointing out our flaws is unpatriotic” is such a current day fascist way of thinking, it’s honestly scary. She absolutely looks like one of the many terrifying Fox News blondes too.


I feel like that reminds me more of the post 9/11 2000s. I don't think I hear people talk about "patriotism" anymore, they're past that excuse. It's still fairly prescient, although it may be that we're seeing that the seeds of what modern politics would become were blatantly planted all the way back then. I don't know much about what politics were like in the early 90s.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I don't think she's particularly observant either. She doesn't go to regular service or seek out religious guidance, she just goes for special occasions. Which isn't really an uncommon way of maintaining a religious identity at all.

I do feel like the acting/directing doesn't really put much effort into fleshing out her national identity, which is a bit of a shame because she's the only explicitly non-american member of the human main cast. The show still manages to create a feeling of internationalism with the aliens seeming genuinely foreign to Earthforce's America, but it is a bit of a shame that Earthforce doesn't really seem that uniting of Earth's general population. Maybe if they kept the Gambian doctor from the Gathering it would've worked better. I guess it does give B5 a more unique feeling from Star Trek, but it's just a shame that it doesn't come off like what they wrote the setting to be like.

Also, past season one, the less american-seeming president Santiago isn't around anymore, and there does seem to be very clear aesthetic reason why president Clark is very American. The Japanese senator also goes away in the political shift, and circumstances seemed to conspire against the three attempts at adding an asian person to the cast.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The_Doctor posted:


Vir’s back again! I honestly thought he’d been put on a bus and we’d not see him again for some time, but hey, still in the titles and semi-regular. Anyway, Lwaxana’s here with secrets! Yes, Londo will be emperor, but so will Vir?! I don’t know why Londo is so afraid at the end, she clearly says they’ll both be emperor, one after the other dies. It’s better for them to both keep the other safe, honestly. That said, I’m eagerly looking forward to Emperor Cotto’s reign.


You never seen Macbeth? Hella awkward.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The_Doctor posted:

S2ep10 - Severed Dreams

Gotcher numberin' wrong there.

I feel like there's a lot of naivety in the way they handle the civil war, but it's also thoroughly enviable to imagine being in a world where you haven't seen massive splits in society growing and growing to show you about where the divide would be and how many people would be willing to just go along with attacks on civilians. Clark seems like he went into things a whole lot more intentionally than our current bumbling fascist overlords, but without as much of an ideological backing.

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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Mr. Mordin is the subject of the sentence. And what the predicate says, he does.

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