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I stumbled on this thread and was inspired to watch, and I'm really glad I did. It's one of the last few big scifi shows I haven't seen yet and I'm in love. Not quite as much as I love TNG, or as strongly as I attached to SG-1 in my first viewing last year, but it's still got me up at 6am binging it  Just finished season 1, episode 10 "Believers" (as in, the titles are rolling right now lol), and while I really like the episode, I realised something -- most of these sci-fis have morals, hell, most of the bab5 episodes have some kind of moral, but I'm not even sure what this one would be. Maybe something like "You cannot take the authority of fate" or "Lol those hardcore religious types really are hosed up eh?" which doesn't really fit with the theme of the show !
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Feb 19, 2022 07:29
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Chevy Slyme posted:The moral of the story in Believers is basically “this ain’t Star Trek kids”. Nothing about the resolution is clean, or simple, or satisfying. If it was a Trek episode (especially TNG) it’d’ve been all three. The point is to hammer home as hard as possible that “Babylon Five is a place where sometimes bad things happen for no good reason and that’s just how it is.” That's valid, and I can get why they would want to communicate that ("We're using the trappings of trek but please don't push us into the same wheelhouse") but I think the episode was a fair bit more satisfying than a fair few of Trek's. It went about as well as I'd expected from the beginning, the telegraphing was pretty clear, and the doctor's speech about being expected to be god, and this time, taking the authority was well framed overall
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Feb 19, 2022 07:48
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I really liked episode nine's resolution where the Vorlons just swoop on in and blow up the immortal fucker up with a "hi, yeah you're not ready for that, bye now". Very satisfying and it surprised me how opposed I am to immortality. Like, maybe I would like to be immortal, but immortality for one is unfair and horrific. Immortality for everyone denies societal change and ensures fractionation and stagnation.
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Feb 19, 2022 07:53
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N'Grath says 
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Feb 19, 2022 08:03
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Vitruvian Manic posted:Is that true? They wanted a cure that didn't touch the body. So, yeah. Factually he was right, and they did want him to act like and perform the function of a minor god. They just didn't want to cede over that godly authority Alhazred posted:It's also an episode that establish that Franklin always consider himself to be in the right. He's not out of touch, it's the patients that are wrong. From my own (disabled) interactions with medical staff, I'm pretty sure most GPs have a god complex on some level or another, and given common representations of doctors in other science fiction shows, it's what the audience expects of their doctors somewhat, too. It's nice to see it made explicit. Winifred Madgers posted:My friend... have I got some good news for you. I had tried to get into this before! The Trek thread just wouldn't shut up about it, so I pulled down the first three seasons and it just didn't take. Turns out, I needed to watch The Gathering first to get a grip on the characters. It didn't really work for me without that first episode !
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Feb 20, 2022 07:36
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I just finished season 1. I hope that commander guy figures out what happens to him, that felt really sad that he almost had a chance to, but it was snatched away but lovely earthers  . So far my favourite race is the Vorlons, barring Londo as a character. The Vorlons just going "haha gently caress you. nah ur not ready for that" or just generally being mysterious motherfuckers is played really well, and how can anyone not take delight in Londo? He acts it so well that it's contagious!Not sure why season 2 is starting on a totally different dude. I forget sometimes that there's a year between these seasons back in the day, and so there was room to refresh people before picking up plot threads. I liked a lot of these stories. Also, are the station port guard rails in E:D an deliberate callback to this show?
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Feb 22, 2022 05:27
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Grand Fromage posted:Behind the scenes stuff. O'Hare was severely mentally ill and was barely able to keep it together in the first season. He had to leave the show to deal with that. oh I know I heard they had the entire story planned out in advance, how did that affect it? edit: I just went over and read his Wikipedia page. drat. He was so loving good at it too. This show seems to have collected drat good actors with health problems. alexandriao fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 05:55
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Ehhh, ok. I'll keep it on the backburner. I'll probably be finished with the show by next month so it's not a long wait
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Feb 22, 2022 06:00
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CainFortea posted:This is always hits me every time I rewatch. Is there a list of intros that have pertinent story points like this? I tend to skip the intros but I don't want to miss these
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Feb 25, 2022 22:12
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Yeah I'm... acquiring it via other means, so it doesn't mess up the daily watch with my folks S02E03: Hahaha so THAT'S the context for that scene. I barely remembered it but I must have seen a youtube clip of it maybe a decade ago. lmao. I loved the technomages but their magic was A Bit Crap. Granted, it was probably much more impressive in the 90s, and it made me think a bit about the technical details of how it might work. I'd imagine seeing that in real life would come off as impressive if you cannot obviously figure out why / how it does it's thing. Londo feels like more of an rear end this season all of a sudden. I think it's the power getting to his head a bit, but even so. He felt more grounded at the end of season 1, and now he seems very suddenly to be extremely self important and more... brusque? Not sure how to put it. I reallllyy hope the technomage's dressing down of him at the end helped, but I get the feeling that it hasn't. The technomage's list of questions that he can answer, and why he is leaving, felt underwhelming. I totalt get that they are leaving as some sort of Foundation-esque thing, but I don't think "how to tell someone you love them in three sentences" and "how to get rich" are really questions and answers worth preserving. I get that stronger answers or a more terse answer wouldn't have fit with their whole... vibe, though. It did also feel like they were too Magician-y, rather than sourceror-y. Like I feel they shouldn't have done any small parlour tricks. The exploding of the communication device was enough and while the hologram and the fuckery with Londo's financial records was funny, it kind of undermines the initial "people who can move mountains with a single enchantment" vibe that they seemed to be going for at the start. The green / purple stuff: resolution clever and funny. I feel like on a large scale the point is kind of valid, but not so on a smaller scale. Like, on a large scale, cultures of humans are still humans, sure. On a smaller political scale, the stuff happening the poo poo terfs pull is absolutely hosed up, even if they are only 300-odd people, and the pushback/fight against them does matter. So for me that undermines the "all humans are kinda the same, flag waving is meaningless" thing that it was trying to express. S02E04: Liked the out of the box solution from the new head of b5, and it builds nicely on him having a good grounding in history. A lot of shows would have stopped at him quoting famous figures, but no, he actually finds applications for this knowledge no matter how obscure. I'm excited to see him apply this knowledge further It's also going to be interesting to see how the... anti-Vorlons develop. It's felt a little disappointing so far that they haven't been outright discovered yet, but the writers are very obvious biding their time and building up to something. I just wish the war wasn't in the intro. We see a ship get shot down by a beam in the intro credits and it feels like they are too open with that, such that it deflates the tension a bit rather than maintaining the idea that things are still peaceful, and just relying on the strong presence of the show to pull folks in. I liked the conception of hyperspace, the world feels more real and grounded than some other science fiction, like they actually sat down and puzzled out the technical details on some level, like they did with TNG. It feels intuitive, but still unique, and leaves latitude for scratching the itch of figuring out how things work S02E05: Not done with this episode yet but, god. That doctor would have been fired on the spot in the present day lol. He leads her into a kiss and then goes "whoops! we shouldn't be doing this!". So just don't get in so close that you lead into a kiss, fool! It is so, so nice seeing Barclay! Every time I spot a recognizable side role actor it gets me excited and helps the show feel more comfy. Also all the actors maintain the role of the show I first saw them in, it's the law. So really, it helps explain why Barclay was so traumatized in TNG! I like the symbiosis dealio and have about ten minutes left to see it play out, but if it's an energy lifeform type dealio, ehhhhhhhhh. They have a perfect opportunity to have like a mix between a goa'uald and the usual alien-that-hides-in-corners dealio, and it feels more horrifying if it had this parasite that crawls inside you, eats you, or leaves a bit of itself around to nudge you around for later eating
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Feb 26, 2022 07:32
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Rewatching with my folks, and two things are really jarring about the... mars independence brokering episode of season 2: Garabaldi and Talia really fucks with me. He's always creepily being nice to her in that nice guy way that creeps me out. He probably isn't that bad, like I don't think he would take advantage of her, but still, eughhh. Also, why the gently caress hasn't Talia been training her telekinesis?? Literally would not have been in half the trouble this season if she had developed that a bit more. Nobody else would even know because she keeps getting attacked in isolated corridors
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Feb 27, 2022 23:00
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S02E09: Now I want to cry
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Feb 28, 2022 22:15
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S02E12: 19 minutes in, and again, this show is making me cry
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Mar 1, 2022 20:40
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Chevy Slyme posted:You will cry for entirely different reasons by the end of the episode. Truly, B5 is a station of contrasts. I haven't hit that due to IRL but rewatching the first half with folks and Delen and G'Kar are pouring drinks out of a bong 
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Mar 1, 2022 22:06
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i love that poo poo in scifi lmao
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Mar 1, 2022 22:07
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Struggling to get words out of my head but S02E20: christ. this was a very Sudden episode, it feels. I feel bad placing my chips on Londo but I appreciate the audacity of the writers making the more affable person turn out to be the conqueror. I get the vibe that he'll get more chances at redemption (in whatever form, although it cannot be total redemption) soon, and I really really hope he takes one of them. I think I'll have to do a second watch after this one, because my first reading of G'Kar and Londo was that while they fought, they were grudging friends, and had a mutual respect going on. And I really get the feeling that had things played out differently from the moment of that handshake, they could have been. G'Kar's words when the Commander went to shake his hand - "The last time I shook someone's hand, 24 hours later we were at war" stung like hell. I'm going to pull a Valen and go back in loving time (i assume that is what happened based on the b4 episode) and give the writer of this a good strong punch for how many times their scripts have made me sob my loving eyes out lol. The last lines or thereabouts - "We will hold that line, no matter the cost". I feel like he's going to be eating those words later on. On a lighter note, I feel like Vosh turning up at council meetings now and then has a "older stoned out dad" vibe to the whole thing. Hes just leaning against a wall barely keeping his eyes open just like "ughhh the loving kids..... are at it again.... god fuckin dammit..... can you lot keep it down for like one loving minute so i can get some rest!!!!"
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Mar 4, 2022 05:19
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Predictions: - Earth will join with the Centauri, maybeee. The senate member's comment I feel is going to be misdirection. Earth has a looot of nationalism / maga naziism going on and I have zero trust around them - Londo is currently way too proud to eat his words but I think the death of his friend, Vir constantly poking him, and whatever happens next, is going to push him into making a stand against the Centauri manipulators. I think he's being set up to lose everything again, but worse.. - G'Kar, hmm. There was a good bit of writing by one of the Iron Man authors during the Extremis arc, that I read a few years back. Basically, Stark is a really really useful character. He's rich, rude, occasionally misogynstic and famous, but that's great because it means he's not beloved in the same way that say, Spiderman is. People have a kind of a like-distaste thing going with him, which is great for them as writers because they can push him and punish him and rip everything away from him, they can destroy him, throw him into darkness and excesses further than you can any other character, and they won't get nearly the same level of hate mail from the fans. I feel this same kinda thing is happening here with G'Kar. They have built up enough frustration with him as a character -- he's unreasonable, he's pushy, while he is sometimes wise and kind, he is often a complete rear end in a top hat and was actively trying to assassinate people earlier on. So they can keep pushing him and drawing the (however righteous) darkness into him. I feel like they're setting him up to do something absolutely heinous. - Ambassador Voltron (i literally just typed his name out right now but I just have zero memory of his actual name) I think the psi whose name I've forgotten... hmm.. shits going on there. I don't think we're ever going to actually see them, but I think him and Sheridan(?) are going to be hitting up The Caves maybe in season 4.
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Mar 4, 2022 05:35
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Sorry to triplepost but S02E22: Fuuuuuuuuuuuck. I gotta pee, but,,, but but I gotta pee, but, I can't look away, but,,EDIT: I want a refund on Kosh. 
alexandriao fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Mar 4, 2022 |
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Mar 4, 2022 06:58
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S03E02 "Convictions": Didn't care too much for the bomb plot, but G'Kar and Londo's elevator scene was beautiful. G'Kar's laughter was infectious and I couldn't help giggling along with him. I don't remember much else. Binge-watching makes everything a blur lol S03E04 "Passing Though Gethsemane": Wonderful. This was a really beautiful episode about what reparative justice means in the context of our culture. What it has to mean. How can reparations mean something in the context of brutal murders? How can they be done in a way that respects the right to life for even murderers, and still help their victims feel respcted and like justice has been served? At what point does victimized hatred become in excess of that of the agressor? Those feel like the themes that are being set up for the series, in general, to be honest. S03E05 "Voices of Authority": God I loving hate that I was right about the lovely loving department of peace. And she's just as annoying as I expected. Ughhhhhh. Both wins feel bittersweet, and I feel like Babylon 5 is going to very very soon be placed directly at odds with Earth in a rather drastic way, they're just exaggerating the difference between them with each episode, step by step S03E06 "Dust to Dust": Haven't finished yet. Suddenly, Babylon 5 does The X-Files. I think they've done a great job at humanizing Cheko- err, the Psi-Cop Guy. I like how they are deliberately paralleling Garabaldi and the Psi-Cop (Che-cop? Chekcop? Never remember his name so thatll do). I feel like Garabaldi tries to distance himself from them but uses a lot of the same kinds of tactics when it is convenient. I hope the Minbari realise that Vir is on their side... I hope... Glad to finally see Londo getting some more backstory, and G'Kar's fathers words are meaningful.
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Mar 6, 2022 18:10
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Alhazred posted:They literally erase his identity. Black Mirror rightly portrayed that as something that only a society that has gone very wrong would do. Sure but how is that worse than the Americans keeping the death penalty around? Objectively and ethically, killing the body and the person is worse than killing the person and saving the body 
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Mar 6, 2022 21:04
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Alhazred posted:A society that has the death penalty has also gone very wrong. 
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Mar 6, 2022 21:30
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For what it's worth I think the mind wiping rather bluntly makes a point as a stand in for the audience to separate who is the person who commits the murders and who is the person long after the murders have committed, after proper psychiatric help has been applied. It allows the audience to separate that between "murderer who is sick/evil/whatever" and "person who at one point committed a murder and has since gone through reparative justice" or whatever. Society kinda teaches us to just dehumanize people who do bad things to the point that for literally anyone to take this seriously without raging at the screen, you need that mental separation. That entire episode was about exploring that mechanical device, and using it to exploring what reparative justice, punitive justice, and forgiveness mean in the context that a murderer can become a new, different, better, and perhaps eventually, a genuinely good person. It's just a device to get around that firm category/distiction people have mentally. I had a lot more to say here, but I don't want to longpost too much.
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Mar 6, 2022 21:42
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I like that the show isn't afraid to ask the questions or broach the subjects of "What turns a person into a murderer?", "How is someone tranformed by grief and revenge and how can they find peace?", "What does forgiveness mean in (context)?", etc etc. They seem to be the major themes of the show, tbh (I don't think that counts as a spoiler? Its science fiction so you would expect it to broach questions like this I think)
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Mar 6, 2022 22:23
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Watched 16, 17, and 18 tonight, although I feel like I should rewatch them because watching them with my folks means I usually miss stuff and emotionally can't engage as heavily with the work. It doesn't help that they are using Prime and IMDB injects sudden intrusive adverts randomly around every 10-15 minutes (they don't even blank the screen before hand, one second you are looking at Kosh and the next you have a white screen with a guy who is shouting at you about a product ) Woww. I too accidentally caught a whiff who Valen is but not from the forums, it just seemed to be semi-obvious from the "human souls that are reborn as minbari" and the bab4 time travel stuff. that stuff was so visible I didn't think it was worth mentioning. Zathras was wonderful and I will miss him. He deserved better god dam it!!!! I feel like the Kosh scene was super good but the relatively easy defeat of the Shadows was... anti-climactic? drat if I had known they could surprise just swoop in and piss all over them then I don't 100% understand why there is this big fight. Maybe the shadows just zergrushed them or something? Or they don't have the manufacturing base to compete with the shadows and lack the ethical leeway to be able to counter-manipulate? I really hope Sheridan takes forward what he has learned and helps Londo avoid the weird trill fucker. Some thoughts about the prophecy in the preceding episodes: Londo's prophecy -- I don't remember if I mentioned it but, I've been puzzling over it: - You have to save the eye that does not see I think this is the Centauri Eye? And he failed and Morton or whatever his name is helped him out, and that set him on this path. - You must not kill the one who is already dead I think this is referring to the Centauri Emperor, whom they murdered even though he was dying, and whose premature death sparked off this entire loving mess - You must surrender yourself to your greatest fear, knowing it will destroy you I can only assume that this is in the future, and that he has one chance left. I assume this also implies Vir, in some way, will take over after he has been destroyed.
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Mar 11, 2022 04:52
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Powered Descent posted:s03e20 - And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place This episode was drat good
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Mar 13, 2022 05:54
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at the assortment of Catholics, aliens and/or white people awkwardly dancing along to a Baptist revival.
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My folks have been doing 3 a night and I haven't been able to keep up with having a life, and watching in advance, so now we are on season 4 and i forgot all my critiques and stuff 
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Mar 13, 2022 05:55
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S04E04:  
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Mar 14, 2022 20:55
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S04 in general (im watching episode 16): - I really really don't like Garabaldi's arc. I don't like the fact that Bester hosed with his head and it was just ignored, and I don't like the fact that his personality has changed a lot as a result of either Aliens or Psy-Corp or that rich guy, and that is being ignored. It just really really messes with me. Guhhh. - I feel like, before they hosed outta the galaxy, Voltron was holding them back before it died. I feel like Ambassador Voltron's faction held a lot of sway, and then it died and, whoops, the Extremely Strict Militaristic fucks were in charge ! Maybe it made a "Try your strategy and see if it fails or not, but we don't have full confidence in it" deal. Volty seemed to like humans, or at least be suuuper good at manipulating them, whereas his replacement was much more antagonistic and hostile. - Sheridan! Oh, Sheridan, finally taking the fight to the home turf ! I was a little worried by the speeches but he's making sure everything is above board so?? Woo! - Really really glad Delenn didn't die. Lenny, too (i dont know how to spell his name). - Love Lyta's arc. - gently caress offfff Bester. Also rude of the writers to make him vaguely sympathetic and then antagonistic again ! - Grats on making the Voltrons and Old Shady gently caress off
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Mar 19, 2022 03:25
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I forgot to mention these two characters - G'Kar. Poor G'Kar But I'm superduper glad he's having fun with his new eye - Super glad that Londo fixed poo poo. Go Vir for stabbing that extremely unstable emperor While I hope that Londo and G'Kar can at least shake hands, I know that's pretty impossible and unlikely, and probably rude of me to not consider the full depth of G'Kar's torture. Also, a slight retcon, when Londo visited G'Kar, he said he had never seen G'Kar's office. He did, when they shook hands, I thought? Although far be it from me to not be misremembering or it be intentional that Londo doesn't remember. I feel like this show is really good at showing how interpersonal conflict bleeds into interpersonal conflict, and vice versa. I'm sad that the warrior dude. Nonon or something, died in the big laser beam :/ I liked that dude.
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Mar 19, 2022 03:36
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Midjack posted:I think Delenn's aide's name is spelled "Lennier". No I think he is definitely Lenny from now on
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Mar 19, 2022 03:37
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Lenny, Voltron, Baldy, Delenn, Ivanova, Sheridan, Lyta, etc.
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Mar 19, 2022 03:38
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Grand Fromage posted:I'm with you. It's good storytelling but as a Garibaldi lover it's real hard to watch. Honestly I'm not really sure that it is because they used a literal Deus Ex Machina to alter his character to make the plot thread work
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Mar 19, 2022 03:40
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Watching Thirdspace, I think i accidentally figured out the best place to put it, which is directly after season 4, episode 14. It relies on knowing events that happen in the episode directly before, but not in anything after. I grabbed it up at that point during my folks watch and it works so well Its nice to see this storyline expanded on, but idk if it adds much to the story as a whole. I guess it had to be ripped out of season 4 because of the cancellation rumours?
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Mar 19, 2022 22:58
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I think if it was less rushed it could have been a lot better. I think that's what makes Babylon 5 stand out from a lot of other science fiction, it doesn't rush plotlines as much as contemporaries would or successors do
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Mar 19, 2022 23:02
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S4E20: Oof, a lot in the last few episodes. Glad Baldy got some kind of redemption and I'm incredibly glad for that. It's taken a weight off my feet. Because hooooly piss poo poo. Did I say gently caress Bester? gently caress Bester and his rat rear end. Incredible shame to see Ivanova gone One of the best characters in the show. Why did she leave?  Glad Sherry got out of the torture room NICE use of the Telepaths!!!! gently caress yeahhhh.
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Mar 21, 2022 23:00
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lol at the episode/season number
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Mar 21, 2022 23:00
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Polaron posted:The most recent explanation seems to have been both side's agents playing contract chicken without actually talking to their clients until it was too late yikes! Season 5 is... I mean the season 4 ending was weird and felt very obviously "oh poo poo we have a new season! uHhhhhhhHhh". I am not really a fan of the "I'm in your computer system therefore I can immediately gain access to everything and understand the wire protocols and blah blah blah. It always feels icky to me. Aside from the upheaval, it is very comfy. I missed a few episodes and now my folks are ahead lol. I feel less invested in this season as a whole, so it's difficult for me to go "Oh, I should catch up". It's not bad, it's just different, I think. I'm extremely glad gababool got vidicated in the end of season 4. The telepaths part was a really good trick, and the win was a bit fast but felt gratifying.
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Mar 26, 2022 22:20
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loling at Lyta being totally undressed under her psycop gown. Dress for the job you want I guess? Do you think Bester wears undies or just goes totally bare assed
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Mar 27, 2022 00:05
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Finding out Bester has been swinging freely for five whole seasons... holy poo poo, I see why yall are interested in the blind watch thread... this changes everything........
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Mar 27, 2022 00:19
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Mar 29, 2022 21:44
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