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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.





Is this an E:15 reaction? It sure seems like one.

the latter third of Season 3 is probably the shows peak for me.

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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


ultrafilter posted:

It's definitely not a big deal but I think I'd prefer watching in the intended order over what we got.

Disagree. With the way the tension of the primary arc is built, I feel like having Walkabout’s shift of focus as a -not a reset, but really more of a way to make the audience stew - is really helpful.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Re: Morden’s handlers, for all intents and purposes, just think of them as being incorporeal beings; (or at least, beings with the ability to become essentially incorporeal at will). They’re ghosts - shadows if you will. They aren’t just invisible - they literally are physically not there..

(The actual mechanics of this are mostly the stuff of EU nonsense and RPG sourcebooks and mostly don’t matter. All you really need to know for now is what you’ve seen.)

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


ultrafilter posted:

Just imagine Sinclair trying to pull that conversation off.

Probably the best piece of evidence that the end of year 1 ‘recast’ was absolutely the best thing that happened to the show.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Whybird posted:

It always entertained me how the restriction on TKO was "no humans". Like, every single other alien race was fine, but humans specifically weren't allowed to play. It's as if the international wrestling community all unanimously agreed that the Welsh weren't allowed to take part.

I don’t think it’s just “no humans” - I always got the impression that it’s more “only these species that have historically been part of fight club may join fight club”.

Like, they’d probably have the same reaction to a Centauri walking in.

After Smith wins, it’s explicitly announced that going forward, Humans would be welcome - by winning the challenge, he’s earned ‘induction’ for the species as a whole.

Edit: yeah, from the admittedly questionable wiki:

quote:

Although it's practised by many other species for whom it is a greatly cherished tradition, an alien species has to earn the right to hold tournaments and have members train as Mutari. Back before the Yolu made contact with other races, or even united under one government, a Yolu nation or faction had to earn the right to compete, and after the Yolu made contact with aliens this rule was applied to them as well.

This right is earned through a member of said species either emerging victorious during a match against a local Sho-rin, or fighting him to a draw. Usual this is after being sponsored by a Muta-Do or Ka-Tow, although anyone can simply just issue a challenge as a Sho-rin is honour bound to except all challenges (although circumventing the resident Muta-Do like that is often seen as disrespectful and it is almost always a last resort).

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Mar 3, 2021

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


DrBouvenstein posted:

The Gathering is the pilot movie, it IN THEORY should be watched first, but I know plenty of B5 watchers say don't bother, it's not THAT critical.

If you're thinking of In the Beginning, that is another movie that should be watched later. I guess even saying WHEN to ideal watch it counts as a spoiler? I don't agree with that, cause how else would a newbie know when to watch it and not spoil themselves on stuff that, ideally, they find out in the course of the series not that movie?

Simply saying when in terms of episode/season numbering is fine and doesn’t spoil poo poo.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Empress Brosephine posted:

Oh is it best to follow this order?

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html

I ask because HBO lists Signs and Portents after Survivors instead of By Any Means Neccesary

Just watch them in airdate order; the fiddling of a list like that is 99% pointless. Your only 'watch order' considerations as a new viewer should be when/if to insert the movies, and the basic answer to that is:

The Gathering first before s1e1

In The Beginning/Thirdspace: Mid/post season 4. (Thirdspace nominally takes place mid season 4, but is unrelated to the events therein, so anytime after 'when it happens' is fine. In the Beginning is a 'prequel'/catchup movie for new viewers coming in to the show late, but will spoil a ton of the first few seasons if watched prior to Mid S4 (post e9 is the typical time if you want to insert both of them, but honestly, after finishing the season is also fine and good, for aforementioned reasons. Neither has any impact on ongoing plot lines, even if viewing them depends on information up to a certain point).

Then, the other movies fall into "Do you really want to do this to yourself?" after finishing season 5. They were all failed attempts at pilots for spinoffs that never took flight (or, in one case, managed to get airborne just long enough to crash horribly with a midseason cancellation).

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Also, if you're truly a masochist and watch the failed launch that is Crusade, yeah, look up an episode order because the network hosed it all to hell, but also, you're literally watching an unfinished half season of a tv show, so....

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


ultrafilter posted:

The series is on Amazon prime and they list the episodes in the original air order.

There are switches you should make in season two and season five, but you can worry about those later.

A quick google indicates that HBO Max has done some fuckery https://b5remasterissues.wordpress.com/the-ugly/episode-order-changes/


I don't think any of the changes HBO did are going to matter much either; a casual new viewer is mostly just fine letting the streaming service do it's thing here, I suspect. Just be aware that episode numbering will not be a helpful way to know where your signposts are for trying to discuss things; stick to titles. (For seasons 1/2)

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Empress Brosephine posted:


s2 e1 spoiler
also I'm mad at myself I accidentally read the season 2 episode 1 description and now I know b5 has a new leader 😓😓 granted I don't know why or what happens. I know literally 0 about the plot of this show other than that now

I mean, I guess it ends up being a spoiler, but yeah, there were several significant cast changes over the shows run for various reasons and the show was, in all honesty, pretty remarkably good at rolling with those punches for the most part. The first big one, as noted, is that the series gets a new leading man after season 1.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 18, 2021

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Earthforce rank structure is kind of a mess, etc. but in general, from what we see on screen:

General > Colonel > Captain > Commander > Lieutenant Commander > Major > Lieutenant

And the security officers are all NCO's up to Garibaldi who is a Warrant Officer with some Sergeants underneath him.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


feedmegin posted:

Major as the second most junior officer rank is pretty lol

There are more junior ranks, especially if you go wiki and dumb novel diving, but other than the throwaway scene (that is just an excuse showing a for crew social occasion) where a crew member is promoted from Lieutenant Junior Grade to full Lieutenant, we just never see the bottom end of earthforce's command structure on the show, so I didn't bother to include it.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 16, 2021

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


OnlyBans posted:

incoherent not-quite-banme post

:what: what.

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 23, 2021

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Hollismason posted:

I thought it was done pretty well. I like Sheridan but Sinclair had his own charm. Not sure why they changed it like they did and then having Sinclair show up again and in charge of the Rangers.

The short answer is, at the time it was never explained and many people assumed network fuckery. In truth, the actor playing Sinclair, Michael O'Hare, was struggling with Paranoid Schizophrenia, which was apparently exacerbated by the stress of working on a TV Series, and, especially, a TV Series in which he was on set with people in monster suits and poo poo all the time. He literally just could not handle the job in his condition, and was lashing out at people and hallucinating at inopportune moments. Very few people knew the truth, and it only came out after his death, in keeping with his own wishes on the matter. :/

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Sep 26, 2021

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Hollismason posted:

Just chiming in again to say that I made it to Season 3 E16 War Without end PART 1. Oh poo poo A part 1 means there is going to be a part 2. Last episode Super loving depressing, Kosh died, Londo went back to working with the Shadows after being manipulated by Morgan. drat. The Doctor just loving QUIT because he was addicted to Stim, goddamn this episode had so much poo poo going on and its just like a mid season episode

I continue to not remember any of this which is good. I know of some stuff that is going to happen FUTURE SPOILERS I know at some point Sheridan is captured by Earthcore? And given a poisoned corn beef sandwich I think? I know he goes to Zah Ha Doom. Uh I know Morden gets his come uppance , G Kar Loses his eye. I remember that

Anyway that's all I remember right now.

Super loving addictive and I've still got like 44 to I guess like 55 episodes to go which is pretty sweet. Kind of I feel at the half way mark of the series.

You are literally at the halfway mark of the series.

(Actually, like 3-4 episodes past it by episode count, but if you include In The Beginning/Thirdspace, you’re right about there by actual runtime)

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


God I can still hear the ending theme from that finale playing in my head anytime people talk about that scene.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Powered Descent posted:

Hello there B5 blind watch thread! I'm Powered Descent. I've been meaning to check out this show for a couple of decades now, so today my girlfriend and I finally sat down and watched the first episode, Midnight on the Firing Line. I'll be trying to react to B5 as its own thing, but seeing as we're both HUGE fans of Deep Space Nine, some comparisons are inevitable. Anyway, here are my reactions, more or less in the order I thought them during the viewing.


1. Holy cow, you can SEE how low the budget was. I may have been spoiled by Star Trek for my expectations of 90s sci-fi production values. The sets and lighting, the filming, it's all barely above soap opera level. About the only thing that doesn't look cheap is the alien makeup, which somehow is top notch. (With the possible exception of the sideways-mohawk Space Hungarians.) Still, I refuse to hold the show's frugality against it. A good story can be compellingly told with cardboard sets, after all.

2. Man, those were some awkward-rear end exposition dumps right at the beginning. But as a lifelong sci-fi fan, I'm used to those, and honestly I'll take a good old-fashioned infodump over the recent trend of the super gradual season-long reveal of backstory for no other reason than to artificially prolong a mystery.

3. Why can't the telepath tell why someone doesn't like her? I mean, having telepathy and all. (Addendum, later on: oh, so I guess she has to touch a person to read them.)

4. Well now, the be-mohawked Centauri aliens are certainly playing to the back row, aren't they? I certainly wouldn't accuse either of them of underacting. (I actually started enjoying their performance more by thinking of their scenes as a stage play on film.)

5. So they solved the A plot (the Narn attack on the colony world) thanks to the B plot (it turns out the pirates are buying their weapons from the Narn). Good on them for bringing the threads together, but it's still kind of an unsatisfying ending since it's really a total coincidence. The two chains of events were unrelated except for both happening to involve Narn.

Overall reaction: I give this episode 2 out of 5 Babylons, and I'm being a little generous with that because it's not unusual for pilot episodes to be kind of wonky. I can see how the characters could have some potential, but this episode was... kind of dire. I'll keep watching, but... it DOES get better than this, right?


P.S. Are the Narn from the planet Narnia? :buddy: (I figure I'm the one millionth person to make that obvious joke. What's my prize?)

:munch:

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Well, not everyone - but William Forward 100% did

The main and obvious exception here is Steven Furst's portrayal of Vir - and even then, it primarily works because he's such an outlier to how literally every other Centauri is portrayed and behaves.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Blindeye posted:

They will explain why there are slums but if you want to know now people often show up looking for jobs and have no money for fare to get off the station, or worked on the construction of the station and had no money to leave

I wouldn't even call this a spoiler, if you feel like looking, Powered Descent.

But, yeah, the slums on B5 (they call them "Downbelow") will play a major role from time to time throughout.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


One thing that’s helpful to understanding telepaths in B5 in general:

Not all (or even most?) of the limits the shows telepaths operate under are limitations of ability. For every “Telepaths can’t do this”, there is “Telepaths won’t do this” or “Telepaths are forbidden from doing this”.

The implications of that statement, and where the boundaries between those three categories lie, are an exercise left to the viewer to wait and see.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Jedit posted:

It's a standard part of a TV actor's contract that they get paid for every episode on which they are credited, whether they appear or not. They are also not able to work on other projects on shooting days in case rewrites require them on set.

But also, when negotiating said contract, it can be understood “but we only actually need you on set for one day out of three, so this rate for all 22 episodes? It’s a bit lower”.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Powered Descent posted:

Oh yeaaaah, I remember hearing that Chekov is a recurring character on this show. Neat. Got some good background on telepaths and the psi-corps and all that, although the guy evolving into pure energy or whatever feels kind of like a retread of the TNG episode where a fugitive with mysteriously-expanding psychic powers that people fear evolves into pure energy. Ah well. As for what Catherine encountered at Sigma 3.1416, I guess this is where I follow the thread title and speculate that it was a Zorlon? Whatever it was, I liked G'Kar's ant explanation.



Re: The thread title; it's kind of a running joke that new viewers often find... creative spellings for many of the various alien peoples and individuals; Zorlon instead of Vorlons (You've met Kosh at this point, I'm pretty sure; he figured prominently in the pilot which IDK if you've watched as well), Mumbari for Minbari, etc. etc.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Re: The Pilot, a lot of services have listed it as Season 1 Episode 0 and it shows up at the end of the season 1 listing, and some have it as it’s own “season”. So check those spots. The episode title is “The Gathering”

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Vavrek posted:

That might be it. I was phone posting and didn't look up to confirm who did what. (I did think those two had similar reactions, but couldn't remember which was which and just guessed.)

Yeah, though Londo did couch his refusal in similar National interest terms; he just then intimated that a bribe would encourage him to look past that, since what they wanted, while not helpful to the Centauri, also wouldn’t be harmful to them.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


The Doctor’s name is Franklin.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


discoukulele posted:


I lol'd that the Streib are Greys


So, there are actually a few other species with a similar appearance over the series, most notably the Vree, (who you’ve seen in the cast of alien extras in council chamber scenes) who literally have flying saucer ships, and later in the series in a throwaway gag are shown as defendants in a lawsuit from a human who claims they abducted his ancestors. - spoiler has absolutely zero plot relevance. It’s literally a throwaway joke. Still, click at your own risk.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Jedit posted:

That spoiler is actually in S1, so it's not a risk for discouke. Good shout on warning others, though.

Could’ve sworn they showed up with Theo.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


But yeah, anyway, there are a few minor variations of greys and other stereotypical aliens like that showing up throughout the series, which point to:

1) a certain cleverness in the show basically wink-nodding UFO sightings etc. as real and establishing all of those varied sketches as being of different species.

2) the cheapskate production ethos, which let them reuse a bunch of costume parts that have been scattered around the studio lot etc.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


B5 does talk about the idea of diseases crossing species a few times, but mostly it's handwavey background stuff and in context it's treated like a more-or-less solved problem.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Lawman 0 posted:

The audio is completely desynced lol.
It's basically unwatchable.

This seems like it might be a client issue on your end. Have you tried watching from another device or whatever?

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Confessions and Lamentations was largely an AIDS commentary at the time obviously.

But it sure did hit different rewatching it last year.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


poo poo'S GETTIN' REAL, IT'S SEASON 3 TIME.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


discoukulele posted:

lmao I was just told that Zack is Kenickie from Grease

IIRC, Conaway was a superfan of the show who talked his way into a cameo, and was basically in the right place at the right time when the actor who was supposed to have Zack's arc decided he didn't want the job.

Just another one of those stories where B5 just got absurdly lucky in terms of casting.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Alhazred posted:

And they're really ugly

FALSE STATEMENT.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Torrannor posted:

I really, really appreciate every new watcher sharing their first time reactions with us. I know there's not a lot of feedback, but that's because we're trying very hard not to spoil anything.

Have with with the next few episodes, they're all really good except for one.

Yeah. A lot of what us old hands have to chatter about without spoiling things is the behind the scenes circumstances that acted as head and tailwinds for the show and explain a lot of the choices that leave new viewers scratching their heads. There are a lot more of those very early (and very late) in the shows run. Where you’re at right now, Disco, is basically the show firing on all cylinders at the very heart of what it tries to do. There’s just very little for any of us to say but “heat up some popcorn, because poo poo is going down” for the next, oh, 15-20 hours of television you’re about to watch.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


discoukulele posted:

Oh poo poo, White Star fleet! :woop:


Not to be confused with White Starfleet.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


DS9 is an office building with a barracks, a commissary and some basic recreational facilities.

B5 is an actual city in space.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Sweevo posted:

TKO: The Ivanova stuff is good, but the fighting plot is one of the lamest parts of the entire series. This episode is what people are thinking of when they (wrongly) claim S1 sucks and tell new viewers to skip it.

Yeah. But I do think that telling new folks to even skip this episode is just so wrongheaded. I simply can not imagine watching the rest of the series without having seen Ivanova’s half of TKO. It’s just such a critical character moment for her.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Basically, episode 21 is a lead in to a finale that was shot, because, yeah they didn’t think they’d get a season 5. When season 5 was ordered, they filmed S4 e22 first, and held the s4 finale, which is a true epilogue for the whole series, for after s5. So you’ll see it then. I don’t think it’s a particularly meaningful spoiler to say that it’s set around the decommissioning of the station, 20 years later, so just waiting a year to air it didn’t really affect anything.

Season 5 picks up right where season 4 left off before the Deconstruction fast-forward interlude. It’s the story of the first year of the new Alliance, and of Sheridan’s struggles as it’s first president to guide it through that infancy.

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jan 4, 2022

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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


discoukulele posted:

Sweet, I'm definitely looking forward to it. I think that I might actually go ahead and watch Thirdspace and In The Beginning before I start the next season.

Not a bad idea. It’s a real good time to watch both. Thirdspace is kind of the Monster of the Week episode that Season 4 was so desperately missing because of the Almost-Cancellation panic rush to wrap up all the outstanding arcs. In the Beginning is a nice look at the historical events that you’ve learned about by now from an outsiders perspective.

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