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zorbus
Feb 12, 2020


ZLogic posted:

Yea I thought about that. My preference would be assuming melee for auto-attack, and then using F if you want to throw the weapon, since melee attacks seem more common than throwing a weapon, which can only be done once per weapon. You could make F-F be equivalent to F-Enter, so that it feels almost as quick as pressing R.
There are returning throwable items in the game (that return to thrower after thrown). Even scrolls which can make any throwable item a returning item.

If there was an Auto-Approach / Auto-Attack command, it could be used no matter what weapon you're wielding, and it would only make melee or reach attacks when in range. The R command could be left as it is.

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Victory Position
Mar 15, 2004

Don't call me a hero.









this looks like someone got really pissed at the direction Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup was making, so decided to make their own roguelike

also, they also seem to be a huge fan of Beogh, since one of the main systems appears to be commanding and communicating with dungeon denizens

hell yeah, I'll give this a shot

Victory Position
Mar 15, 2004

Don't call me a hero.









zorbus posted:

Not in the near future. The game is programmed in Pascal (not the best choice, I know), and quite tied with Windows. In theory, you could compile it to Android, but in practice these things never go smoothly.

oh yay, another roguelike in Pascal

ZLogic
Feb 14, 2006

THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE

zorbus posted:

There are returning throwable items in the game (that return to thrower after thrown). Even scrolls which can make any throwable item a returning item.

If there was an Auto-Approach / Auto-Attack command, it could be used no matter what weapon you're wielding, and it would only make melee or reach attacks when in range. The R command could be left as it is.

Oh, I didn't consider returning weapons. That sounds like a good solution.

ZLogic
Feb 14, 2006

THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE

My gnome was having such a good game. Finally had enough gold to buy items in the shop, found the secrets on every level, had the robe and ring of wizardry. Knew all the best spells and all the companions were fully geared badasses. Was using possession to send enemies against each other.

Then the game tells me "0 is out of array range! Shutting down" and I lose my character

zorbus
Feb 12, 2020


Do you remember any details? What type of creature you possessed, did it happen during the possession or after it?

Check if there's a file called "Error-log.txt" in the game folder.

zorbus fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jul 21, 2020

ZLogic
Feb 14, 2006

THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE

code:
  Release 38     2020-07-20 21:10     Being 0 is out of array range! (max 449)

  GAME_Main, handle_rounds ->
  GAME_AI, ai_act ->
  GAME_AI, ai_attack ->
  GAME_Combat, melee_attack ->
  GAME_Being, damage_being ->
  GAME_Being, update_being ->
  GAME_Being, is_being_ok
Turns out is_being was not ok!

It was the Duregar King's level, me and my companions were running from an ice dragon and the king back towards the stairs. No possession was active. Had some skeles up I think...

EDIT: Ah yes, I remember that I used the map to manually order my companions to travel to the stairs right before the crash happened.

ZLogic fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 21, 2020

ZLogic
Feb 14, 2006

THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD IS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE

This game is very good fun, good job. I like how you can realistically see enemies past the screen and how strategy and tactics are more important with advanced AI. Much more like actual D&D. I also really like the writing. Adds a nice touch of flavor, and it seems to be esoterically or mystically inspired which is interesting.

The darkness for stealth gameplay could stand to be made a little brighter just so the user can see.

Let me know if you include some kind of save recovery feature, because I'm not particularly interested in my save evaporating for a third time. It also might help you debug errors like this. Other games keep a save file that gets deleted upon a legit death. You could make it a debug option that needs to be enabled, with a file that's difficult to edit, include some kind of encryption or file authentication, nestle it in the game files, and/or make a notice that the game is not intended to be save-scummed.

ZLogic fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 21, 2020

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011



The gamefeel of this game is incredibly good. A lotta roguelikes get mired in wanting to feel like rogue and don't really go for tone setting options like sound or dialogue but it really adds a ton to the game for very cheap considering its just a buncha stock sound effects and text.

zorbus
Feb 12, 2020


Release 39 (24-Jul-2020)
  • By pressing A you automatically approach and attack nearest seen hostile creature with a melee- or a reach-weapon. You can use autoattack just for approaching so you can use it to chase down a creature or to narrow the range to it for a ranged attack, spell, etc. If no openly hostile creature is seen, a target creature is selected from those who get gradually more hostile against you. Autoattack ignores creatures in areas blocked from autopilot. Autoattack is disabled if your current Health is under 30% of max Health (the percentage can be changed from the settings).
  • The default keybinding for autopilot changed to P. Blocking autopilot areas changed to O, clear all blocks to CTRL+O. If you use the game updater, it's best to reset keybindings because of these changes.
  • If the game crashes, it tries to save the game. A crash report is created into the Crash-folder.
  • Settings: Option to disable log top add (new messages added on top of the log instead of the bottom, on by default).
  • The game is saved if you select "Return to main menu" from the game menu and the setting "Save on exit" is on (on by default).

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009


Found some good Zorbus tactics chat on Reddit. I've edited out the endgame spoilers at the beginning.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes...rambling_guide/

All credit to ObnoxiousVRtuber. Bolding mine.

quote:

...

In less anime terms, overspecialize in a skill, and make every challenge a test of that.

There are four main skills of note; melee, magic, bow, and friendship. Melee specialization means you can thwack everything to death frightfully easily as long as its right next to you, magic means that you can shoot lasers or do anything till you need a breather, bow means you can plink things farther away than melee, and friendship means friends. 6-8 of them, when normally you fight alone. And they can have friends(summons)of their own.

An important note is that most enemies and companions are balanced, and the d20 system. That is, they are equally passable at most skills(offence and defence), but do not truly excel in any, and combat checks are resolved by skill amount+1d20 opposed checks. Thus, someone with just 10 points more in a skill will win it 90% of the time, and twenty points difference is a skill gap that guarantees victory every time. You should aim for 20-30 points endgame for magic/melee/bow builds.With the power of friendship, give everyone the biggest sticks that can be spared, and anything that increases their numbers.

The main problem is that your glaring weaknesses will be exploited. Constantly. Which is why you need to force enemies to confront you on your own terms, ones on which you will win.

Melee: You hit things up close. In 1v1's you are nigh invincible, in group melee's you are still highly resilient and can murder dozens if your cards align. But you can't hit things from afar except very early game or with godly high modifiers. Everything else probably can, so get creative. Don't charge across a brightly lit hallway filled with wizards or stand still when 3 archers are pelting you during a duel. In fact, you probably shouldn't engage with melee guys until at the end of an engagement, when victory is already assured. You are assuredly lethal towards anyone who comes into contact with you, so kill the people damaging you first. Use charge with spears to oneshot casters that blink away on low health. Reposition often.

Bow: You plink someone for 2 damage. And again. And again. And again. And then they keel over. You are more reliant on enchantments to deal good damage than near everyone else, but in return you can pull all sorts of shenanigans, mostly "you can't touch me" and "shoot everyone on screen, meatshields be damned" In return, shields block you and ammo is constantly changing until you get an everlasting bullet. Upgrade ammos and bows either with a super elemental damage array, or focus on just pluses and vampiric scrolls. Run away often and preemptively. Kill enemy archers and web spewers first, as they can put an end to your shenanigans.

Magic: You're a wizard. Shoot lasers. Fart acid. Summon meatshields. As soon as you run out of stamina, you're boned. Before that happens, blink away, turn off the lights, and pray nothing comes near while you rest. Alternatively, play the game like you're a one man S.W.A.T. team. Slowly clear out areas, establishing escape routes and dangerous areas before even initiating combat. Use radar (True vision and clairvoyance) obsessively to never be taken by surprise. Possess enemies/summons and use them as recon drones/trap absorbers. Be jumpy around every corner and open each fight with crippling the opposing side. Completely ignore the hack and slash and turn the game into magic spy sim.

Friendship:You kinda suck. But you and your companions suck together. And no matter your stats, your companions will be decent enough. And if you care for them and outfit them enough, then you will outnumber your foes both in power, numbers, and friendship. And eight guys with clubs whaling on one guy will, due to the games flanking mechanics, kill them in short order. The problem is that all of them are idiots, all of them need weaponry and equipment, and you're the only one competent enough to function on your own, let alone survive against overwhelming numbers. Which they will throw themselves upon and promptly die. And without friends, you'll promptly waste a bunch of potions and or die. So micromanage them, clothe and arm them, and make sure none are being gnawed on before resting. Only then will you have power, and only through the willingness of others will it be maintained.

Edit:Also, there is one spell of note that every build would benefit from, and it requires just two levels of magic to get. Summon 2-3 animals.

Exactly what it says on the tin. Summons 2-3 animals, of varying quality. When you can consistently cast it, enemies can kill them in 2-3 blows each, 1 for the lucky competents. It costs six stamina, being one of the cheapest talents in the game to use. And its one of the most effective from start to end due to the sheer versatility and utility offered. Punch way above your melee weight with flanking allies, each of which can also deal damage. Summon meatshields of your own, which you can fire over with multishot. Maul a wizard while you deal with meleers. Summon endless waves and laugh as the sheer cost efficiency of the spell utterly depletes the stamina and arrow reserves of the gods themselves while you're still fresh. Post other shenanigans below.

Malabolg
Apr 21, 2010


So, played a dwarf Lone Wolf spear-and-shield grinder through to the final plane, challenged and lost to the all-rounder god. Thoughts:

The level generation is great - lots of environmental storytelling. I guess I need to go stir up trouble in Carillo to find out more about the Company

Monster AI, for the most part, is pretty fun. Spellcasters use their spells properly, they'll loop around and come at you from the rear if you try to hole up in a corridor, good stuff. But the fleeing is unbelievably annoying - Charge can only do so much, summons melt past a certain point, ranged weapons were terrible because to keep my melee capabilities on par, I couldn't spare many points for Ranged. This was exacerbated by damage resistance being all over the place.

The shops pretty quickly became useless for anything past buying potions. It would be nice if the items refreshed as you went deeper to offer more level-appropriate gear. Some kind of crafting would be nice, to allow for filling out holes in the equipment. Also, the percentage limits on enchanting are a bad idea - if you want to cap enchanting gear at a certain level, then hard cap it. Enchant scrolls are a precious resource, committing one should not have a random chance to fail.

Elemental damage properties feel a bit underwhelming, particularly given that you're giving up getting a plus to-hit to take them (to-hit isn't trivial to come by).

The final fight with the all-rounder god was a deeply disappointing waste of time. No interesting tactics at all - just limitless stamina to spam spells and abilities, and more raw stats than me in every way. And with significant regen and damage reduction on both sides, it became a pointless slog to see if my potions would last. Summons just melted, Orb of Anchoring couldn't pin her down for anywhere near long enough to get anywhere. Getting her to 15%, then having her blink clear across the room, regen away everything I'd achieved in the last five minutes, then blink and regen twice more on top of that?

I assume she's supposed to be a hard counter for a defensive grinder - but she's insufferably boring to fight. If that's how god fights are meant to go, I don't think I'll bother with trying any more. Stacking up enough demigods in the final plane to take one of the gods down assumes this game can keep my interest that long, and frankly, I don't think it can, particularly if the god fights are all going to be like that.

I want to try a mage next, and an ally-focused character. And maybe a version of Ol' Stabby that sacrifices some melee to keep ranged vaguely up to speed. Fun game, though I'm hoping I just got a bad first impression of the god fights.

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Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!




I haven't gotten very far yet (only survived to floor 6 I think?), but for the most part I really like this. The only things that bother me are:

(1) Enemies fleeing is a complete pain in the rear end. God drat, it's just such a time-waste chasing kobolds down the halls in the early floors, which you have to because...

(2) The difficulty increase from floor to floor means that you can't really leave stuff behind and come back later.

I think that number two I think is the bigger concern, at least from my limited skill at this game. If you get a bad RNG floor where there are substantial challenges that just don't fit the build you're running, you can't jump down to the next floor and then come back after you've leveled because the next floor is likely harder than what you're running away from in the first place. You need the experience from the previous floor to keep pace with the challenge of the next floor. I spent probably 3,000+ turns chasing a Troll around Floor 4 or 5 because he'd flee, trigger Die Hard while fleeing, and then escape into the night healing up while I chased him. I needed that ~600 exp, though; the next floor had several purple wizard enemies in a group with shitloads of demon summoning and fireballs that melted my life bar. The first floor or two become a kobold footrace for melee classes unless they find nice ranged ammo, because they're the prime EXP source before next floor. It doesn't play like (as an example) Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup where you can skip a D:2 Sigmund and fight competently on D:3/4 before coming back to finish him.

I have to agree with the overall feel being awesome otherwise - really top notch atmosphere, and the environmental plot stuff is great.


EDIT: Also, I loving loved (and hated) that Worgs and other wolf-related enemies can sniff you out across multiple floors. I used a wand of sanctuary to escape a worg room, went up two floors, and they all found their way up two levels of the dungeon to murder me on D:2. I just sort of stared at them coming up the stairs and was like, "Okay, yeah that makes sense. Good boys have good noses."

Sundae fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 5, 2020

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