Are you picking this up? Good. Let's teardown Command & Conquer REMASTERED

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Are you picking this up? Good. Let's teardown Command & Conquer REMASTERED

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Vlex: Aug 4, 2006; I'd rather be a climbing ape than a big titty angel.

I have (rage-filled) memories of applying considerable effort to take out construction yards, only to have them rebuilt without an MCV. I don't know if they're real, this was 1995 after all.

\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ yep that checks out

Vlex fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 11, 2020

# ? Jun 11, 2020 14:54

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 11:05

Sheen Sheen: Nov 18, 2002

They stopped replacing buildings after I captured and sold both conyards, but if I destroyed one conyard and didn�t destroy the other one fast enough then the first one would pop back up. I never saw an MCV anywhere, and there was no way one could have made it over to that spot in the village without me noticing it.

# ? Jun 11, 2020 14:54

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

As near as I can tell the mission data itself is exactly the same in the remaster, as is the way it reads in the data.

The only thing that is slightly different is how the engine acts in a few situations, see: airstrike priority.

The thing is there's bugs in the mission data and those are all still there, case in point is con-yards shouldn't be listed in the [BASE] data to make the AI rebuild them.

This is from my old LP:

GDI Mission Fifteen

scg15ea

scg15eb

scg15ec

# ? Jun 11, 2020 15:52

Loxbourne: Apr 6, 2011; Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

The random turrets and SAM sites scattered around being flagged as "do not rebuild" is presumably to avoid tiresome late-mission whack-a-mole. WW were either unwilling or unable to tie victory to "all production structures destroyed" so did what they could to make destroying everything a bit less painful. See also: Tiberian Sun's infuriating hunt-the-laser-fencing routine.

Also rebuilding SAM sites would invalidate the way GDI get their airstrike in single-player by killing them.

# ? Jun 11, 2020 18:52

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Loxbourne posted:

The random turrets and SAM sites scattered around being flagged as "do not rebuild" is presumably to avoid tiresome late-mission whack-a-mole. WW were either unwilling or unable to tie victory to "all production structures destroyed" so did what they could to make destroying everything a bit less painful. See also: Tiberian Sun's infuriating hunt-the-laser-fencing routine.

Also rebuilding SAM sites would invalidate the way GDI get their airstrike in single-player by killing them.

There's many missions in which structures are in trigger groups for stuff like airstrikes but also rebuild, see scg15ea where there's the two rebuilding powerplants that only need to be destroyed once to trigger the nuke. Or the two southeast SAM sites that rebuild.

For the airstrike trigger you only need to destroy each marked SAM site ONCE, even if it rebuilds you'll still have airstrikes.

scg15eb also has a ton of rebuilding SAM sites but again you only need to destroy each of them once.

In thread news I added a discord link to the OP if you want to request/ask stuff directly.

# ? Jun 12, 2020 03:21

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

On scg15eb what triggers the chinooks? Also I'm assuming "Prod" triggers building the tiny base in the bottom? And what do the "dely" triggers do?

I will say the engineer chinook is rather comical if you park an APC on the bridge.

# ? Jun 12, 2020 12:54

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Alkydere posted:

On scg15eb what triggers the chinooks? Also I'm assuming "Prod" triggers building the tiny base in the bottom? And what do the "dely" triggers do?

I will say the engineer chinook is rather comical if you park an APC on the bridge.

chinook is 4.5 minutes, I think.

prod starts building of structures so in this case the minibase on the cliff will start being built.

TD has limited trigger manipulation, theres 3 special triggers, delete trigger xxxx/yyyy/zzzz which when that action happens deletes the triggers named that.

In this case delx/dely stop some regular wave attacks.

# ? Jun 13, 2020 13:11

Admiral101: Feb 20, 2006; RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Just did Allies 10b "Evidence"

Is there some kind of trigger that is supposed to destroy the flame turret in the top left of the map? I ended up just sneaking an engineer up the left wall and sacrificing a rifleman for bait, but not sure what the intended solution is.

# ? Jun 15, 2020 10:37

Nostalgamus: Sep 28, 2010

IIRC there are two consoles above the flame turret, one to stop the missile and one that destroys the turret. The one for destroying the turret is on the right. Of course, you have to use the same distraction strategy to get to that one, so it doesn't make much difference.

# ? Jun 15, 2020 17:35

Pham Nuwen: Oct 30, 2010

Admiral101 posted:

Just did Allies 10b "Evidence"

Is there some kind of trigger that is supposed to destroy the flame turret in the top left of the map? I ended up just sneaking an engineer up the left wall and sacrificing a rifleman for bait, but not sure what the intended solution is.

I just told Tanya to bomb it. She took a little damage running up there but was otherwise fine. I'm a lazy Casual player, though, so YMMV.

# ? Jun 15, 2020 18:44

Admiral101: Feb 20, 2006; RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Pham Nuwen posted:

I just told Tanya to bomb it. She took a little damage running up there but was otherwise fine. I'm a lazy Casual player, though, so YMMV.

Tanya? How do you get tanya on that mission

# ? Jun 15, 2020 20:38

Nostalgamus: Sep 28, 2010

Admiral101 posted:

Tanya? How do you get tanya on that mission

South-southeast corner of the map, in the big tank garage/hangar.

...you managed to beat the map without Tanya? That's impressive.

# ? Jun 15, 2020 20:50

Admiral101: Feb 20, 2006; RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Nostalgamus posted:

South-southeast corner of the map, in the big tank garage/hangar.

...you managed to beat the map without Tanya? That's impressive.

I assumed that microing the poo poo out of the infantry and healing everybody after every fight was the way the developers intended the map to work. Developers in the 90's really didn't telegraph much.

# ? Jun 15, 2020 21:21

evilmiera: Dec 14, 2009; Status: Ravenously Rambunctious

Nostalgamus posted:

South-southeast corner of the map, in the big tank garage/hangar.

...you managed to beat the map without Tanya? That's impressive.

I remember beating it without Tanya as well, back in the day. But these days I always pick her up. There's no point not to.

# ? Jun 16, 2020 02:34

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

I just finished every Tiberian Dawn mission on hard :toot:

and I would love to see the "intended" solution to a lot of the Covert Ops missions, especially Elemental Imperative and Blindsided on the GDI side and Deceit and Eviction Notice on the NOD side.

Deceit was nearly impossible because the AI built Advanced Guard Towers up in the northeast base which I didn't see on the map nor mentioned in any walkthroughs. Had to just say gently caress it and sell everything to throw minigunners at the meat grinder.

Eviction Notice I could only manage with sandbag cheese because it was way too hard to guard all the approaches and the GDI base had what seemed like infinite troops.

Your map of Under Siege was extraordinarily helpful. Went from a really difficult mission to not so bad with strategically placed artillery and knowing not to kill off everyone in one of the blockades.

# ? Jun 16, 2020 05:38

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Allies: Mission 10b scg10eb

Set global 7 plays a little scripted sequence where tanya arrives and shoots some dudes

# ? Jun 16, 2020 06:30

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

GDI Covert Ops: Blindsided scg50ea

code:

[Briefing]
1=Your mission: Use your commando to establish control on our side of
2=the river. We will send some help when all SAM sites are taken out.
3=Then send your forces across the river and attack Nod from the rear.
4=Destroy them all. They won't be surprised for long, so act quickly.

This mission is a massive victim of the difficulty scaling, on casual you can breeze through this just sitting on the other side of the river and using airstrikes.
Hit the two conyards in the top corners, do top left first. (as long as you didn't cross the river and set off all the triggers the AI will literally do nothing except maybe repair stuff).
Also it doesn't start with a harvester on the top side of the river because it might bug and try to go to the south one.

Even on normal the first airstrike should have 3 a10s which is just enough to wipe a conyard.

The 30 minute bottom reinforcement trigger is bugged because the team doesn't have a chinook in it so the infantry arrive from the north instead of by chinook like the two commandos do at 40 mins.

I highly recommend using your chinook to sneak up the left side of the map and dropping engineers into the top left base, you'll need to airstrike there first to reveal it.

Remember to capture the bottom right refinery when the harvester is docked.

Use an artillery on the bottom right base, skirt around north against the river and take out both north powerplants to power off the obelisk.

# ? Jun 16, 2020 13:21

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

Oh wow this is really helpful. So basically you should never hit that Comms center. no wonder NOD was swarming with guys.

# ? Jun 16, 2020 14:27

Nostalgamus: Sep 28, 2010

Spookydonut posted:

Allies: Mission 10b scg10eb

On reflection, when you're playing this for the first time you're probably not aware of the fact that the mammoth tanks won't attack you, and consequently you might conclude you should stay the gently caress out of that room.

# ? Jun 16, 2020 17:36

Polybius91: Jun 4, 2012; Cobrastan is not a real country.

I wouldn't mind cracking some of these missions open myself to get a closer look at how triggers work (want to get creative with the remastered edition's map editor), but I can't find the mission files anywhere in the remastered edition's folder.

# ? Jun 17, 2020 02:36

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

Seeing these missions ripped open and explained like this makes me wonder just how the gently caress I put up with some of this poo poo on the PlayStation, especially when it comes to the obvious cruelty involved with expansion missions for RA. No saves? 20+ seconds of loading with every restart? Low-resolution turning map awareness into a loving nightmare?

Jesus H. Christ.

Polybius91 posted:

I wouldn't mind cracking some of these missions open myself to get a closer look at how triggers work (want to get creative with the remastered edition's map editor), but I can't find the mission files anywhere in the remastered edition's folder.

You'll need XCC Mixer.
Guide the program to wherever (and through however many directories) the data is buried under, i.e. ...\steamapps\common\CnCRemastered\Data\CNCDATA\<game>

RA missions: CD1/Counterstrike/Aftermath >> MAIN.MIX > GENERAL.MIX > SCG/SCU****.INI
TD missions: CD1/CD2/CD3 >> GENERAL.MIX > SCB/SCG****.INI/BIN (both!)

Just extract these INI files to wherever the Remastered Edition editor reads them from and go at it :v:

Edit:
Uh-oh, forgot that TD missions need both the BIN and INI files to function else the editor probably shits the bed. It's been a while since I messed around with making TD missions!

Edit 2:
The expansion missions are in CD1/2/3 >> SC-000 (Funpark -- uses SCJ**** names) & SC-001 (GDI/Nod). For whatever reason all three of the CD directories seem to have all the content for TD. Seems a bit bloated but whatever.

ZogrimAteMyHamster fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jun 17, 2020

# ? Jun 17, 2020 02:48

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

fyi the xcc tools are rear end and a pain to work with, see: no bulk extraction, file directory view straight out of 1980s

# ? Jun 17, 2020 06:13

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

That's all true, but AFAIK there's sadly nothing else out there that does the job!

# ? Jun 17, 2020 18:43

Admiral101: Feb 20, 2006; RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Just played cloak and dagger from covert ops. Thought it should be easy but somehow I triggered the AI hunt sequence and the mammoths at the front entrance came for me which ended my fledgling base. What triggers the hunt? It happened about when I killed a power plant, but I watched a video of another guy doing the mission and he managed to kill most of the base before the hunt sequence started.

# ? Jun 17, 2020 22:22

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

Admiral101 posted:

Just played cloak and dagger from covert ops. Thought it should be easy but somehow I triggered the AI hunt sequence and the mammoths at the front entrance came for me which ended my fledgling base. What triggers the hunt? It happened about when I killed a power plant, but I watched a video of another guy doing the mission and he managed to kill most of the base before the hunt sequence started.

Did you attack the small village to the East of the GDI base? Doing this will send a few civilians out to get help; as they pass by the Mammoth Tanks, said tanks will (slowly, even by HTNK standards) wander away to the small village and guard it. This buys you some time once you start destroying poo poo, but attacking any non-defensive structure is what sets GDI units off into hunt mode (~~they're all marked as 'Base' structures and will provoke a response, whereas the GT's/AGT's are not~~ some AGT/GT's are marked as Base structures but the AI still doesn't give much of a gently caress about them being attacked anyway it seems?). What you really want to do is capture the Power Plants to take the AGT's offline, then pick them and the GT's off, etc. etc.. By slowly capturing the base like this and chipping away at the defensive stuff when possible you won't alert GDI units until you trash the Advanced Comm. Centre, by which time you should have built a sizeable forces of MTNK's.

Capturing that stuff though can be a total loving dog of a task depending on where you place your Hand of Nod.

ZogrimAteMyHamster fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jun 18, 2020

# ? Jun 18, 2020 00:40

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

There's no triggers on cloak and dagger that cause all to hunt.

It's a pretty simple map tbh.

# ? Jun 18, 2020 06:19

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

NOD: Eviction Notice, scb30ea

This map is very A10 happy but there's no regular airstrikes.

Avoid building too near the chinook drop point but otherwise building in the village is okay once you have a few obelisks up.

Watch out for that 3x A10 trigger for entering the base and the one from destroying any of the oil derricks.

Make sure to use an artillery to take out the adv comm center as early as possible, it triggers every 25 minutes.

# ? Jun 18, 2020 06:35

TheMostFrench: Jul 12, 2009; Stop for me, it's the claw!

Having never really played any of the C&C games myself, this makes the game look kind of complex. It's interesting to think you might come back to it after years and have a totally different experience because you did something a bit differently and did or didn't trigger something major.

# ? Jun 18, 2020 08:07

Sheen Sheen: Nov 18, 2002

I just beat Allies Mission 12, the one where you have to capture the two tech centers and destroy the iron curtain (to be fair this describes like half the Allied missions :v:

) and I swear to god I must have killed like 30 subs in that lake in the middle of the map after I built a naval yard there. Does the AI get infinite subs on that map? They definitely didn�t have a sub pen to build them from after I destroyed it.

# ? Jun 18, 2020 12:56

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Sheen Sheen posted:

I just beat Allies Mission 12, the one where you have to capture the two tech centers and destroy the iron curtain (to be fair this describes like half the Allied missions ) and I swear to god I must have killed like 30 subs in that lake in the middle of the map after I built a naval yard there. Does the AI get infinite subs on that map? They definitely didn�t have a sub pen to build them from after I destroyed it.

Yeah every 5 minutes after you hit a trigger they reinforce subs into the middle lake, it's busted af

# ? Jun 18, 2020 16:59

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

Spookydonut posted:

There's no triggers on cloak and dagger that cause all to hunt.

It's a pretty simple map tbh.

Yeah should have been clearer on that; Hunt itself isn't triggered explicitly, the units just go to defend the base when it's attacked. The MTNK next to the GDI ConYard is a bastard for causing this; it's in such a place that said ConYard will take damage if you attack the MTNK, setting everything else off into defensive action. Capture it first! :v:

Spookydonut posted:

Yeah every 5 minutes after you hit a trigger they reinforce subs into the middle lake, it's busted af

Was just looking at this. What the hell sort of event is "Global is set..." anyway?

ZogrimAteMyHamster fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 18, 2020

# ? Jun 18, 2020 17:06

Sheen Sheen: Nov 18, 2002

Spookydonut posted:

Yeah every 5 minutes after you hit a trigger they reinforce subs into the middle lake, it's busted af

I get why they did that, a few unchallenged cruisers in that lake kinda trivializes that map, but it was still drat frustrating to have subs constantly appear out of nowhere

At the same time, that map taught me that cruisers are actually the best anti-sub unit�my dumb idiot destroyers kept trying to sail right on top of surfaced subs before they would actually start launching depth charges, tanking torpedoes the whole time and dying while subs remained mostly unscathed, while just having the cruisers force-fire at empty water tiles was enough to rack up sub kills from way out of their range :v:

# ? Jun 18, 2020 17:24

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:

Was just looking at this. What the hell sort of event is "Global is set..." anyway?

Well if you'd stop hijacking the thread I might get to it lol

# ? Jun 18, 2020 17:46

Nostalgamus: Sep 28, 2010

Playing though Soviet 7 and remembered something I've been wondering about for a long time.

Does this console actually do anything? It feels like you're better off ignoring that room altogether, the health crate isn't woth the damage/casualties you take to get it.

# ? Jun 18, 2020 21:27

Poil: Mar 17, 2007

Nostalgamus posted:

Playing though Soviet 7 and remembered something I've been wondering about for a long time.

Does this console actually do anything? It feels like you're better off ignoring that room altogether, the health crate isn't woth the damage/casualties you take to get it.

Might be the one that triggers the flame turrets.

# ? Jun 18, 2020 22:42

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

As far as I can tell it doesn't do anything.

I can't find what destroys the flame turrets.

BUT the flame turrets are setup such that if one is destroyed all of them get destroyed.

So for all I know there's something wacky going on where it destroys one, but I know for certain it doesn't force the turret destruction trigger.

# ? Jun 19, 2020 03:46

Nostalgamus: Sep 28, 2010

I think the flame turrets blow up when the pillbox guarding the dogs does. Is the pillbox tagged as part the flame tower group?

# ? Jun 19, 2020 16:03

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Nostalgamus posted:

I think the flame turrets blow up when the pillbox guarding the dogs does. Is the pillbox tagged as part the flame tower group?

Ah yes, both the pillbox and the barrel next to it are part of the flamer tower trigger, so even if the barrels don't destroy the pillbox, if that last barrel explodes then everything does.

# ? Jun 20, 2020 07:01

revtoiletduck: Aug 21, 2006; smart newbie

Soviet 9 is a real pain in the rear end. I can't believe how garbage SAM sites are, and they seem to be your only defense against endless helicopters.

# ? Jun 21, 2020 22:21

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 11:05

Spookydonut: Sep 13, 2010; "Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

I made sure I had a copy of all the text in my update posts incase forum vanishes, join the discord to find out where i'll start posting it if it does vanish

edit: should i relaunch this as short narrated youtube videos?

Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jun 24, 2020

# ? Jun 24, 2020 10:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Are you picking this up? Good. Let's teardown Command & Conquer REMASTERED

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