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Franchescanado posted:The Nabakov influences are apparent in the unflinching portrayal of the taboo... I'd also throw in JG Ballard as an obvious influence, and of course Cronenberg's whole career is in conversation with Ballards to the point of later adapting Crash. Shivers is more or less itself an adaptation of High Rise, and specifically the way that Ballard described his novels as being about "picturing the psychology of the future" is relevant to how we understand it. Cronenberg is writing about how the isolation and depersonalization of living in a bourgeois apartment complex "community" alters the psychology and culture of the society and encourages depravity and atavism. He's just not didactic about it, and represents this social breakdown with gently caress slugs. It's the same idea as in 28 Days Later or Pontypool where human interaction itself is so traumatic it can only be mediated through violence and sex.
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Aug 12, 2020 19:04
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DeimosRising posted:I'd also throw in JG Ballard as an obvious influence, and of course Cronenberg's whole career is in conversation with Ballards to the point of later adapting Crash. Shivers is more or less itself an adaptation of High Rise, and specifically the way that Ballard described his novels as being about "picturing the psychology of the future" is relevant to how we understand it. Cronenberg is writing about how the isolation and depersonalization of living in a bourgeois apartment complex "community" alters the psychology and culture of the society and encourages depravity and atavism. He's just not didactic about it, and represents this social breakdown with gently caress slugs. It's the same idea as in 28 Days Later or Pontypool where human interaction itself is so traumatic it can only be mediated through violence and sex. Thank you for adding JG Ballard's High Rise to the conversation, because it is a huge influence on Shivers. I haven't read it (yet), and didn't want to introduce it if I couldn't talk about it from having read it.
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Aug 12, 2020 19:42
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Franchescanado posted:Thank you for adding JG Ballard's High Rise to the conversation, because it is a huge influence on Shivers. I haven't read it (yet), and didn't want to introduce it if I couldn't talk about it from having read it. I'll try to write some more about it later but you should read high rise because it's good, yes, if flawed, but also because it's like 250 pages and you can do it in a weekend easy
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Aug 12, 2020 20:01
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Aah, I could not for the life of me pinpoint why Shivers seemed so familiar, and of course it's High Rise! Interesting that Ben Wheatley didn't make the list, btw.
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Aug 12, 2020 20:28
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DeimosRising posted:I'll try to write some more about it later but you should read high rise because it's good, yes, if flawed, but also because it's like 250 pages and you can do it in a weekend easy I own his book Crash (never seen Cronenberg's adaptation), and I'm constantly on the look-out for a well priced copy of his complete short stories. I definitely need to get High Rise, though. Adding it to my short list.
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Aug 12, 2020 20:32
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A spit in the eye to the pervert who nominated Paul W.S. Anderson and his Resident Evil movies. That was one of the most painful slogs I've endured in quite a while. Edit: (Not actually meaning this to come across as harsh as it might, people just  )
The Hausu Usher fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 03:08
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What’s wild is if PWSA had drawn Event Horizon I think we’d be looking at a potential upset here.
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Aug 13, 2020 12:53
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TrixRabbi posted:What’s wild is if PWSA had drawn Event Horizon I think we’d be looking at a potential upset here. I'd have still voted Shivers, but I agree, EH would have taken it. It's a crowd pleaser in ways Shivers is not.
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Aug 13, 2020 12:56
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Well I didn't have a lot of time this week but it actually worked out fine because I'd seen all of these movies except for one, so I just didn't get in as many rewatches as I'd like. Haunted Castle was fine but it was gonna take a pretty amazing silent to beat Blue Velvet and this wasn't it. Cronenberg vs. Anderson was a no-brainer, there's just no way I can vote for a Resident Evil movie over even mid-tier Cronenberg. The other two were a little tougher, but still in the end I knew deep down which way I was gonna vote as soon as I saw the match ups. I would've liked to be able to convince myself to vote for Corman or Fulci but in the end these match ups were just too tough for them to overcome. We're talking about the franchise that won the whole tournament last time, and then Vertigo which at one point was named AFI's #1 film of all time. I don't know that either Fulci or Corman had anything in their filmographies to combat heavy hitters like that.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:04
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Results!  No surprises, and (much like last time) it's the top 4 seeds making it to the Sweet Six-Scream. I don't know how to make this more interesting other than to have fewer choices next time, starting with 32 instead of 64, so there's fewer blowouts. Rome'll be up in a few.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:32
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I wouldn't worry about how many blowouts there are. We want there to be lesser known movies mixed in there because that's half the fun of doing this.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:35
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I don't think you have to do anything to make these more interesting. Every week so far has given each of us at least one new movie to watch, and has instigated some pretty good discussions about the films in general, and what each of us, as an audience member, find "acceptable" in horror films. There are also real-time discussions happening in CineD discords that don't get posted here, which are equally interesting. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 14:35
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I appreciate the 64-format, it's giving me a lot of material I wouldn't have otherwise engaged with. Sure, the results are perhaps predictable, but the journey is fun.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:35
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New Round! Return to Rome!   Now we separate the posers from the enthusiasts. I haven't seen Deep Red, but I can confidently say it is a better-made movie than Dead Alive. This doesn't change, however, the fact that Dead Alive is the most enthusiastically made movie probably ever. Deep Red is on almost everything; Dead Alive is on absolutely nothing, so if you somehow haven't seen it, I guess head to the horror discord and arrange a viewing?  We never really talked about this, but does Frankenweenie mean just the 2012 feature (on Disney+) or also the 84 short? Either way, it's going up against a literal Best Picture winner so gently caress late-stage Tim Burton, he should've tried sucking less.  Altered States (VUDU) is Russell's sacrifice against the Dante buzzsaw of The Howling, which is another "not streaming anywhere" selection.  Now THIS is gonna be interesting. Q (streaming literally everywhere) vs Bay of Blood (on whatever Fandor is supposed to be). Q is an incredibly fun crowd-pleaser with Moriarty and Cohen at their absolute peak. But Bay of Blood has the absolute sleaziest poster in this entire competition so far, so it's got that going for it. Here we go!  VOTE HERE ONCE YOU'VE WATCHED THE MOVIES!
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Aug 13, 2020 15:03
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Nothing against Argento, but just assuming Deep Red is technically better than Dead Alive is....not correct. edit: What I mean to say is, Argento's a good director, but the technical side of directing is not his forte, it's not his strongest characteristic as a director. On the other hand, you have Peter "reinvent the entire game for future generations" Jackson. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 15:09
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Ohhhh I've never seen Altered States and The Howling is very good but I think it's certainly beatable. So I'll be going into that one with an open mind. I'm voting for Bava but it's a close call and I worry about this matchup. Bay of Blood was very influential but I don't consider it one of his best, I actually think it's a bit of a mess. Re: Deep Red, from a design and cinematography standpoint I do think it's the better film. Whether that will be enough to carry it will be interesting to see. I'm undecided right now but leaning towards Argento. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 15:29
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Basebf555 posted:Ohhhh I've never seen Altered States and The Howling is very good but I think it's certainly beatable. So I'll be going into that one with an open mind. It's funny you mention it. Both Q and Bay of Blood are messes, but Q sticks the landing much better than Bay of Blood, in my experience. I'm excited for a rewatch of both.
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Aug 13, 2020 15:31
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I’m cool with how the last round turned out. I find upsets fun too but honestly I think the format is totally fine. Anyway, this might be the wildest round yet and Dead Alive gonna win.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:12
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An ambitious weekend stream schedule is currently in the works, just sourcing movies and double checking my schedule now.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:14
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Altered States is way better than The Howling you’re mad. Mad I say
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Aug 13, 2020 16:14
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As a fan of both Joe Dante and werewolves I don't really like The Howling.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:17
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I think The Howling deserves a rewatch, for anyone that may have seen it just once and didn't really like it. Because it works a lot better once you give up expectations that it's going to be JOE DANTE DOES A WEREWOLF MOVIE. It's actually much more of a Wicker Man style slow burner that happens to have a few pretty great werewolf scenes.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:22
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Basebf555 posted:I think The Howling deserves a rewatch, for anyone that may have seen it just once and didn't really like it. Because it works a lot better once you give up expectations that it's going to be JOE DANTE DOES A WEREWOLF MOVIE. It's actually much more of a Wicker Man style slow burner that happens to have a few pretty great werewolf scenes. For sure. I've owed it a rewatch for some time now. I've seen it a couple of times. It's not bad, it just doesn't connect with me as much as I would like. I wish there were a better way of watching it than just buying Scream Factory's blu ray, which is, like, the only way to watch it in HD. Rentals are still only standard; no HD available (legally). And even the blu ray is only 1080; nothing remastered.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:30
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Had a busy last week, didn't end up contributing much to the discussion but I suppose it was only blowouts anyways. Now THIS week we got some reaaallly good matchups. I've not seen Frankenweenie, Altered States and, surprisingly Bay of Blood. Very much looking forward to seeing the last two! I love what I've seen of Russell so far and I am not so enamored with The Howling that I would definitely give my vote to Dante. I don't actually like Mario Bava that much, for some reason his movies never really click with me. Q The Winged Serpent slaps absolute rear end, almost entirely due to Michael Moriarty, so it's going to be hard for Bava. Shame that Shape of Water is wasted on beating Frankenweenie. Deep Red vs Dead Alive, wowwww. Dead Alive I haven't seen in what, 15 years, but I remember it as a blast of nonstop crazy energy. Deep Red I've seen multiple times and at its highest highs it's the best that horror or even film as a whole has to offer. There are so many memorable scenes that just make me want to fistpump in joy, but there are also some parts that drag on a bit, and the ending is a little bit of a letdown. I'll have to give this a lot of thought.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:38
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Dead Alive continues the trend of weekly films that are getting remastered releases after the tournament will be over, which makes me irrationally sad. I got the Arrow release of Deep Red recently, so that'll be how I rewatch it. There is an HD version of Dead Alive, which was released on blu ray in 2011 and is too expensive to get. It's basically OOP. So what I'm saying without saying it is, I may have a special case of defective vision where I can't see someone sharing an HD version of Dead Alive. It's like being color-blind, but with remastered copies of movies.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:46
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I need to see Altered States
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Aug 13, 2020 16:56
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 Deep Red vs Braindead AKA Dead Alive, FRIDAY on the CineD Discord  1900 EST Deep Red 2040 EST Braindead Altered States vs The Howling, SATURDAY on the CineD Discord  1900 EST Altered States 2050 EST The Howling Vincent Price Sunday Chill Stream, on the CineD Discord  With special guests Frankenweenie and The Shape of Water  1000 EST The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo - A Spooky Little Ghoul Like You 1025 EST House of Wax 1205 EST The Mad Magician 1325 EST The Raven 1500 EST The Abominable Dr. Phibes 1645 EST Night Galley - Return of the Sorcerer 1710 EST Madhouse 1850 EST Vincent (1982) & Frankenweenie (1984) 1925 EST Frankenweenie (2012) 2100 EST The Shape of Water Debbie Does Dagon fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 18:11
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Deep Red never connected with me the way Tenebre did, and I don't find that I "respect" it as opposed to really liking it, like I do with Suspiria. Of the Argento films that are generally regarded as the "top tier," that's always the one that left me coldest. (Personally I prefer The Bird with the Crystal Plumage and Opera to it.) I'll always have a soft spot for Dead Alive, since I first saw it at the local art house theater as a cult movie night showing on one of the worst work days of my life. Nothing worked, stayed way too late, drove a coworker home and ended up knocking my passenger side mirror off, it was mess. Then Dead Alive ended up being hilarious and fantastic and totally turned my mood around. I owe both a rewatch and I'll try to be impartial, but I don't know that I see myself voting against Jackson here.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:35
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Class3KillStorm posted:Deep Red never connected with me the way Tenebre did, and I don't find that I "respect" it as opposed to really liking it, like I do with Suspiria. Of the Argento films that are generally regarded as the "top tier," that's always the one that left me coldest. (Personally I prefer The Bird with the Crystal Plumage and Opera to it.) You rule. Cuz I'd say my top 3 Argento are Suspiria, Opera, and Tenebre.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:38
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I think Deep Red was one of the better giallo films I've seen but I really don't care for them or find them super horrory the way I respond to. Its been forever since I've seen Brain Dead. I could see that taking it. But I gotta make sure I watch the right version of Deep Red this time. Been saving Shape of Water for this, and Frankenweenie sounds like fun. Soudns like a real fun double billing. Never seen Altered States. I seem to recall really enjoying Howling and how much Dante just goes for it and holds nothing back. Cohen vs Bava is interesting because everything of Cohen's I've seen has been alright but off to me and everything of Bava's I've seen has really, really hit with me. So we'll see if Bay of Blood continues that. I confess, I didn't manage to stay up for Vertigo last night but I still voted on it account of not liking its opponent. I'm gonna try and watch it today.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:54
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STAC Goat posted:I think Deep Red was one of the better giallo films I've seen but I really don't care for them or find them super horrory the way I respond to. Its been forever since I've seen Brain Dead. I could see that taking it. But I gotta make sure I watch the right version of Deep Red this time. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on Bay of Blood, because it was (controversially) a huge influence on Friday the 13th Parts 1 & 2, and I remember it being a visual outlier to the rest of Bava's work.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:06
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^^^dang it Bay of Blood is the one that Friday the 13th took a lot of it's cues from, which is why it's not one of my favorite Bava films. It just lacks a lot of the style and atmosphere of films like Kill Baby Kill, Black Sunday, or Black Sabbath. And just for straight-up giallo, his Blood and Black Lace and The Girl Who Knew Too Much are both a lot better imo. So unfortunately STAC I think there's a good chance you aren't gonna like it. Who knows, it's always hard to predict what someone will like.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:07
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Ken Russell is probably the most underseeded director of the tournament and he doesn't even have a full roster. The only one of these matchups I don't see as a total tossup is probably Del Toro vs. Burton, though I could see Frankenweenie maybe having enough charm to pull ahead but it's at a distinct disadvantage. Had Burton drawn Beetlejuice or Mars Attacks! I think this could have gone his way. Every other match I see as totally 50/50 at the moment, these are tough ones with really odd selections for everybody. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 19:41
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Its completely weird but I get a big smile when someone asks me what I'm gonna do tonight and I'm like "Well, I'm gonna watch the 1980s Larry Cohen cult classic horror Q, followed by the award winning Hitchcock film Vertigo starring Jimmy Stewart, and finally Mario Bava's 70s giallo A Bay of Blood." Makes me feel all sophisticated before I watch clay dragons and bright red blood.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:12
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I'm in a goon horror discord but I don't read it much. Is that the one where the streams happen or is it a different one for CineD as a whole?, and if the latter I'd appreciate an invite in my PM box as I'd like to join for some of these. This round is wild af and I am looking forward to watching Q for the first time as well as a bunch of rewatches
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Aug 14, 2020 01:33
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I’m wrapping up Q and this movie is loving insane. Wastes zero time at all.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:05
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TrixRabbi posted:I’m wrapping up Q and this movie is loving insane. Wastes zero time at all. Not often do you get a cheesy stop motion Aztec monster movie with an amazing powerhouse acting performance just dropped into it. Moriarity and all of NYC give that film so much life. Larry Cohen was a wonderful bastard.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:12
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Glad everyone is about to get clued in to the greatness of Altered States.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:18
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WeaponX posted:Not often do you get a cheesy stop motion Aztec monster movie with an amazing powerhouse acting performance just dropped into it. Moriarity and all of NYC give that film so much life. Larry Cohen was a wonderful bastard. There's like a million tv shows and movies filmed in NYC and I don't know why but I've never seen a movie that feels more like NYC than Q. And New Yorkers. The idea that a dragon is flying around Manhattan and life just goes on or that perfect scene early on when Robert Carradine offers up a theory for the missing head, Roundtree shoots it down, and Carradine just responds with "I don't know! What the gently caress do you want from me?" poo poo makes me so homesick I want to cry.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:21
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God that movie is a trip. I need to watch Bay of Blood still but honestly, Bava is gonna have a hard time topping that experience. Truly delightful from start to finish.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:30
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