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One of my biggest issues with Inland Empire is Lynch's reliance on the onboard autofocus of the outdated dvcams he shot it on, which causes the classic problem of closeups of people being blurry while the background is in focus. IE has a ton of closeups like this, usually through some kind of fisheye lens, and they just look like amateur hour. Debbie Does Dagon posted:My history with Inland Empire is that I walked in on my brother watching the film in his bedroom shortly after it came out. On the screen was the backyard barbeque scene, and my instant impression was that this film looked like poo poo, the acting was terrible, it just looked awful, I'm out. So while I am a massive fangirl for Lynch, I did not come into this matchup with high hopes. This is funny because that's easily the worst scene in the movie.
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Sep 19, 2020 20:25
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Videodrome vs Inland Empire Somehow my appreciation of David Cronenberg has greatly vaned during this tournament. I think the reason for this is that perhaps most notable of all directors we're dealing with here, he greatly changes over time - some might call it maturing, some might call it mellowing out. Since his roster is heavily focused on his pre 90s work we're not even getting to the good stuff. Whoever chose movies for him did, in my opinion, poorly. We're missing out on (what have I seen?) Naked Lunch, eXistenZ, Cosmopolis, Map to the Stars, all much better and more interesting movies than everything but The Fly and Videodrome. But ok, let's talk Videodrome. It's…ok? It’s got all the ingredients to make a great movie, it slowly ramps up the weirdness, escalates and then…it’s over just when it’s starting to get really good. This is a movie that could have benefited greatly from another 30 minutes or so of runtime in the end, because as it is it leaves me with cinematic blue balls. It doesn’t seem like it fully satisfied Cronenberg either, because eXistenZ seems almost like a sequel. I suppose this dissatisfaction was the right feeling to have for going into Inland Empire, a completely draining 3 hour marathon of Lynchian weirdness. I’m not going to even try and go into the story, this is just pure feeling for me. I have to say I absolutely detested the way the movie looks for the longest time – the early 2000s digital aesthetic is just absolute dogshit, everything is pixelated and overexposed and cheap looking. However, by the end it’s exactly this what makes it so mesmerizing, confusing and scary. The lo fi looks, the terrible CGI, the often atrocious acting give it a weird authenticity, like I’m watching someone’s cursed home video instead of an actual movie. Weirdly, I also get the feeling that Lynch, like Cronenberg, wasn’t completely done with his movie. Just like eXistenZ continues Videodrome, Twin Peaks S3 seems like a continuation of Inland Empire, and if I was an obsessive Lynchhead I’d be looking for the key to explain S3 in this movie. Either way, easy vote for Lynch this time.
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Sep 19, 2020 20:27
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 TONIGHT! Debbie Does Dagon posted:
 COMING ATTRACTIONS Debbie Does Dagon posted:
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Sep 19, 2020 22:16
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Dream Warriors vs Faust, SATURDAY, on the 
A very special SUNDAY CHILL STREAM on the 
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Weird request. Can everyone who participated in this thread PM me? Even lurkers! Either on SA or discord. Just a simple subject and message is fine.
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Sep 20, 2020 06:14
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Chuck Russell's A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors vs. Brian Yuzna's Faust: Love of the Damned] aka… “One Fever Nightmare vs Another” I really, really like Dream Warriors. I think I already made my argument last time but it holds. The Elm Street sequels get a bum wrap. 2 is flawed but interesting. 4-6 are derivative and silly but fun. New Nightmare is kind of groundbreaking and in many ways the bridge between Wes Craven’s thought process going from Nightmare to Scream. And it would have been as strong an ending point for the franchise as any horror franchise has if not for Freddy vs Jason. But right there in the middle of all of that is Dream Warriors and I think it gets lost. Its not a Wes Craven film, its not a subversive LGBTQ measuring point, and its not even silly, goofy Freddy being fun. What is is a serious, sometimes heartbreaking, and really good horror movie. It takes the ideas Wes had in the original Nightmare for Freddy to represent the danger and evil present and ignored in tranquility and order and it takes that a step further. In Dream Warriors Freddy is all that horrible poo poo that eats away at you and tries to break you down. Disability, drug addiction, depression, abuse, loneliness, and self esteem. In Nightmare everyone’s lying to themselves that Freddy’s kills are the actions of other human killers. But in Dream Warriors the lie is that they’re suicides. Freddy is preying on these damaged kids in need of help and trapped in this terrible system and he’s using suicide and their issues to hide. And then comes our hero. The one person who knows Freddy, isn’t afraid of him, and wants to be the adult who can help these kids when no adult would help her and her friends. I loving love it and I think it makes an amazing Trilogy with New Nightmare. I think you should watch Dream Warriors not as one of 8 sequels to Nightmare on Elm Street. You should watch it as the second part of a really effective trilogy and with the openness and attention it deserves. I think it will reward you. And yeah, that nun thing sucks. Its unfortunate and we could probably cut 3 scenes from the whole film and lose nothing. But its only like 3 scenes. And it does lead to the skeleton. Faust. Well as anyone who was in the discord knows my story is that I watched this nearly 20 years ago while sick with a fever and have spent all that time with hazy memories I wasn’t sure were real. I’m not still not entirely sure what was real and not. This is not a good movie. Its real bad in every way you’d expect a derivative, cheesy 90s comic book adaption ripping off Spawn and The Crow to be. But its a Yuzna joint so he gives it 110% and a poo poo load of hosed up gory and horny stuff. That’s not really my thing but this movie never gives you a chance to be bored or disengage. If it held at that I’d call it a good watch and give it a shot here because of just “second time and nothing left” fatigue. But then the film has to use kid rape as a casual plot device not only to arouse and sexually charge a woman but to power her up. And that’s really gross. Like for all the poo poo I’ve given Cronenberg for his taboo and sexual line crossing I’ve never considered it thoughtless. I’ve spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what Cronenberg was thinking. But Yuzna’s not thinking anything. Its just a lovely edgelord idea in a movie that pushes the line over and over until it finally crosses it. I don’t know if that was in the original comic or what but it didn’t have to be adapted and wasn’t necessary for the plot… so much as there was one. To me it just puts a dark shadow on the whole affair and sicks a lot of the good will I had for 90% of the film. So yeah, even though we’ve done Russell and moving him on means Blob or Dream Warriors a 3rd time and I find that boring and its probably gonna lose and it would kind of be terrible if it didn’t lose and went to the finals…. I can’t in good conscience vote for Faust. And plainly I really love Dream Warriors and think its the better movie. I might go watch New Nightmare now.
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Sep 20, 2020 06:54
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Franchescanado posted:Weird request. I don't know, sounds like a trap to me.
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Sep 20, 2020 13:48
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If Russell moves ahead we can always toss in that third horror movie of his I found, though apparently that's a recipe for instant defeat.
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Sep 20, 2020 14:39
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I say let's throw it in the mix, if it sucks, that's on Russell
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Sep 20, 2020 15:54
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married but discreet posted:I don't know, sounds like a trap to me. On the scale of weird requests I've received in my life, this is pretty tame.
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Sep 20, 2020 17:37
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Faust vs. Dream Warriors I was colder on Dream Warriors than I expected after I rewatched it the first time it was up in this tournament, but it doesn't suck. Faust sucks. There's like 10% of a fun movie in here and I'm glad Yuzna got a chance to film a big satanic ritual, but it's pretty clear that the 90s comic book he was stuck with for source material was bad. I'm extremely annoyed with this because I wish exile and shame upon all the duos directors at this point, and both of these movies would lose to literally anything else in this round, but I can't vote for Faust. Ugh. Blade II vs. The Devils Rough draw for GDT. Blade II is perfectly fine but nothing that will stick with me. He really needed something not based on a comic book to have a shot here. One of the few bad things I could say about The Devils is that Ken Russel's style might start to feel a little too familiar with this many of his movies in close proximity, but it's a style I mostly like and all of the movies are really good so I personally don't mind it. Audition vs. The Gas Man The Human Vapor is a mashup of The Invisible Man and Phantom of the Opera that kind of works some of the time, but mostly doesn't. A few good ideas, and a climax that would be fantastic in a better movie. Unfortunately it fails to land here because none of the characters involved have been developed into anything interesting. The whole thing is especially strange because most of what it does wrong, Godzilla did right - too much time wasted on explaining backstory that doesn't matter at all, not nearly enough on the characters or pushing the premise somewhere beyond the obvious. It makes me wonder whether he was too chained to a bad script or phoning it in or what. This gets the dubious distinction of being the tournament movie I'd most like to see remade, and the first name that popped into my head to handle that is Miike (thanks in large part to the killer theater segments in Over Your Dead Body), which is a pretty clear sign of how my vote is going this round even before we consider that Audition is one of his best. I wish I could vote for this over Faust or Dream Warriors, but I can't, so I am left with a sad farewell to Honda. I haven't cleared time for Inland Empire yet so I don't know how the David-off is going to go, but Videodrome will be tough to beat.
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Sep 20, 2020 21:04
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You know who is gonna vote for Faust? This guy Not because I think it's a better movie than Nightmare, it demonstrably isn't as history as born out. But because it is peak performance exactly what I wanted from this tournament- sharing poo poo with people that never would have watched it (again or for the first time) otherwise. Me and Faust go back to its release date, I found it in a block buster and ate it up. I can't say I thought it was good even then but it was a blast for the effects and dumb bullshit. This was at a point where finding films like this was a rarity, but here this was, hanging out at blockbuster. Subjecting people to this film and getting to experience their highs and lows with it is one of my honest pleasures. See also why I made sure to nominate Miike as fast as possible. I want to expose people to the most insane poo poo they're comfortable with going through. Basically I aspire to be a MAD from MST3K. Human Vapor I cannot say is making it through the round. Unless there's a lot of people who don't like Miike out there, while i'm still voting Honda its pretty much as an obligation to the man. Also that finale is a hell of a thing, top tier. Rest of the film is, again, the closet you'll get to Honda doing a hammer horror film. But the important thing is that more people got to see it than had previously. I wish Miike saved Audition to dislodge Lynch, but I honestly still just like Videodrome more so 'eh.
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Sep 20, 2020 21:26
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Guillermo del Toro’s Blade II vs. Ken Russell’s The Devils aka… “What’s More Heretical? A Jesuit Priest Who Sleeps Around or Kris Kristofferson Rising From The Dead?” I really like Blade II and I’m gonna make the case for it, but I don’t think its gonna win. I don’t think its our group’s taste and honestly I don’t think it was the right choice for del Toro’s ballot. Its much more of an action flick than a horror and its definitely not one of his best or even truly a Guillermo Del Toro Film. Meanwhile Mimic is sitting right there. But here we are and I like Blade II. Yes its a David Goyer and Marv Wolfman movie but Del Toro instills a lot of his own stuff and style even when he’s forced to color between the lines. We can see nods to his other work here and he crafts a fun little world with really good monsters in it. And a really fun soundtrack. Snipes has a great swagger and Blade is designed really well. The fight scenes where he just shreds dozens of vampires are really fun and cool and del Toro doesn’t skip a single opportunity to try and sneak something interesting in from bisected vampires to one lone eyeball winking at you after the rest has burned away. I don’t think Blade II is a great film and maybe its not as good as the original, but I think its a real good film and a lot of fun. Even if it probably doesn’t belong here. Also listen to the Director’s Commentary if you can. Guillermo del Toro is hilarious and you’ll get to know Lenny, the stagehand who was a LITTLE too excited about handling fake body parts and sketched everyone out. Now The Devils is gonna win and I’m ok with that even though I just don’t think I click with Ken Russell’s sense of humor or vibe. But part of my problem with the Devils was probably misplaced expectations. I’d heard the rep and I really was expecting something way the gently caress out there and really warped. But its actually a pretty tame and standard take on the hosed up poo poo the Catholic Church was doing. Its not even all that old all things considered. Today in this country there’s conservative Catholic bishops claiming you’ll be excommunicated and go to hell if you vote for Biden and Jesuits telling them that’s not how it works. There’s a Jesuit Pope and a who lot of Conservatives call him everything up to a heretic and blasphemer. So like this stuff still works on a lot of levels and was well done. But I think its well treaded territory for me so I went in expecting something new and really different and instead got a conversation I can have 2 glasses of bourbon in with a Jesuit. And have. But its really good looking and Reed and Redgrave are real good and I probably should rewatch it with the proper expectations. So here we are. I know Devils will win. Part of me thinks it should win. But if I’m being honest with you I like Blade II more. I like Guillermo del Toro more. And I want to watch Cronos and Crimson Peak a lot more than I want to revisit Russell’s films we’ve already seen. So I’ve voting for Blade. And I encourage you to because there’s about to be a new Blade and Wesley deserves our respect. And del Toro is absolutely hilarious when he’s making GBS threads on his own movie.
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Sep 21, 2020 06:28
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Blade 2 vs The Devils Blade 2 is a perfectly fine popcorn action movie with a great monster autopsy scene and pretty good fight choreography. The plot just barely makes enough sense on the most surface level and that’s pretty much all that’s required of it because we’re just here to watch Wesley Snipes explode vampires into surprisingly well aged CGI skeletons. The rest of the cast is charming and colourful but a lot of the characters are completely wasted – does Donnie Yen do anything at all? I suppose a lot of what was originally planned and filmed didn’t end up in the final movie, too bad. What the movie is really missing is a memorable setpiece like the beginning of Blade, so overall it just ends up feeling like a mediocre budget video game. Still a lot of fun and successful at what it's trying to do. The Devils was quite the surprise for me – hyped up as one of the most controversial movies ever, it’s about as offensive as a picture of the prophet Mohammed. Sure, if you’re sternly religious you might care, but Faust: Love of the Damned is more shocking than that. That being said, I really liked it, for many reasons. The set is a vast, almost sci-fi looking, shining white medieval fantasy city, and the ending shot of is a total stunner. The cast is charming and colourful and EVERYONE gets a chance to shine. It’s also really funny, which makes sense given the farcial happenings in the movie. Overall it’s (and I said that in the discord) a much better Pit and the Pendulum, although I really would have loved for Oliver Reed to explode in the end. The Devils it is.
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Sep 21, 2020 14:55
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STAC Goat posted:Now The Devils is gonna win and I’m ok with that even though I just don’t think I click with Ken Russell’s sense of humor or vibe. But part of my problem with the Devils was probably misplaced expectations. I’d heard the rep and I really was expecting something way the gently caress out there and really warped. But its actually a pretty tame and standard take on the hosed up poo poo the Catholic Church was doing. It's a matter of perspective. In 1971 movies were a lot more staid. It was only the year before that the word "gently caress" was first used in a major studio production. Simulated masturbation obviously seems tame now when we've had an Oscar nominee give a blowjob on camera, but back then such a frank depiction of female sexuality linked with religious corruption was a great breaching of taboo.
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Sep 21, 2020 15:22
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It's sad that GDT seems to hate Mimic so much, considering that what we ended up with was a pretty drat creepy and overall very effective creature feature. From what he's said about it I get the sense he just has bad memories of his actual experience dealing with the studio while making it, which maybe colors his perception of the movie itself.
Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 15:30
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That’s gonna happen. I just rewatched Lynch’s Dune the other day and though it’s not per se good it’s a delightfully weird and enjoyable film. But Lynch’s experience making it means it will always be this black mark on his filmography for him.
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Sep 21, 2020 15:43
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TrixRabbi posted:That’s gonna happen. I just rewatched Lynch’s Dune the other day and though it’s not per se good it’s a delightfully weird and enjoyable film. But Lynch’s experience making it means it will always be this black mark on his filmography for him. Dune is Lynch's best film. It suffers only from not being five hours long.
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Sep 21, 2020 15:53
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 TONIGHT! Debbie Does Dagon posted:
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Sep 21, 2020 20:47
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Jedit posted:It's a matter of perspective. In 1971 movies were a lot more staid. It was only the year before that the word "gently caress" was first used in a major studio production. Simulated masturbation obviously seems tame now when we've had an Oscar nominee give a blowjob on camera, but back then such a frank depiction of female sexuality linked with religious corruption was a great breaching of taboo. Basebf555 posted:It's sad that GDT seems to hate Mimic so much, considering that what we ended up with was a pretty drat creepy and overall very effective creature feature. From what he's said about it I get the sense he just has bad memories of his actual experience dealing with the studio while making it, which maybe colors his perception of the movie itself. I think that will always happen with a tortured artist. Its the one thing I always had to fight with, self criticism. I was never satisfied with my work and I always found a million more flaws than anyone else did. Ultimately it had me quit a lot of my "art" because it only made me unhappy. I listened to some of the director's commentary on Blade 2 last night and Guillermo del Toro sounds like he's got a level of disdain for that one too and has no qualms ripping into his own work (hilariously).
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Sep 21, 2020 21:29
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Man Mimic is good y'all. How many horror movies have precocious kids stumble on the monster and instead of running away leaving their skateboard behind for the monster to snap between its fingers menacingly it violently kills the kids
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Sep 21, 2020 21:35
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The Devils is still quite blasphemous but more importantly it's 100% good.
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Sep 21, 2020 22:06
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TrixRabbi posted:The Devils is still quite blasphemous but more importantly it's 100% good. On the scale of 'I feel I sat through something blasphemous and might need to go to Confession over it', I'd put Alucarda above The Devils on that scale.
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Sep 21, 2020 23:13
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M_Sinistrari posted:On the scale of 'I feel I sat through something blasphemous and might need to go to Confession over it', I'd put Alucarda above The Devils on that scale. Hell yeah Alucarda is incredible.
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Sep 21, 2020 23:14
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M_Sinistrari posted:On the scale of 'I feel I sat through something blasphemous and might need to go to Confession over it', I'd put Alucarda above The Devils on that scale. Ok but please refer to my latter point
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Sep 21, 2020 23:26
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M_Sinistrari posted:On the scale of 'I feel I sat through something blasphemous and might need to go to Confession over it', I'd put Alucarda above The Devils on that scale. Yeah, good call. Alucarda is the recent film I've seen that felt similar to Devils but was much further. That was definitely more along the lines of what I was expecting or even Pit and the Pendulum. Devils felt closer to something like the Witchfinder General.
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Sep 22, 2020 00:05
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Come on people. We are talking about vampire Ron Perlman. The choice is clear.
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Sep 22, 2020 00:40
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I get that. I understand WHY this was hated by the Catholics and shocking in 1971. They probably still hate it. I just feel like we should adjust our hype in the subsequent 50 years. Hype isn't everything. Heck, it isn't even anything. We're comparing and contrasting movies made over a period spanning over 75% of the time the medium has even existed. To judge individual merit in the face of such disparity requires context. Back in round 1 people voted for Faust in large numbers, not because it was still terrifying but because they could see how it was remarkable in its own time. And just as Faust was judged by how shocking and innovative it was almost a century ago, so must The Devils be judged by how shocking and innovative it was fifty years ago.
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Sep 22, 2020 01:16
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Jedit posted:Hype isn't everything. Heck, it isn't even anything. We're comparing and contrasting movies made over a period spanning over 75% of the time the medium has even existed. To judge individual merit in the face of such disparity requires context. Back in round 1 people voted for Faust in large numbers, not because it was still terrifying but because they could see how it was remarkable in its own time. And just as Faust was judged by how shocking and innovative it was almost a century ago, so must The Devils be judged by how shocking and innovative it was fifty years ago.  I saw The Devils as a midnight several years back and I will say, I'm not so much concerned with how blasphemous it is as much as the fact that it's a genuinely great film that I find pulls me into its world through fantastic performances. Still, feel free to weigh history here and consider it in its time.
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Sep 22, 2020 01:54
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Yeah, I don't mean to use the "how blasphemous is it?" thing to judge the film. Just to frame where my reaction was since I had the wrong expectations going in. The other side of it is that what the film WAS about wasn't personally that new or deep to me. But like it was done well so I can see why it would work more for people who haven't spent a lot of time hashing it out with Jesuits and Johnny Walker.
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Sep 22, 2020 02:12
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To clarify, I'm ultimately glad that this movie was far from the extreme experience that I'd expected it to be. It's a really well made, good, funny, thoughtful and gorgeous movie that I'd definitely rewatch over Ichi the Killer or what have you.
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Sep 22, 2020 02:14
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As a lot of people enjoyed the trailers/short during the Sunday stream, I've compiled this list of everything, just in case it's useful for someone. Trailers: Raw (2017) Let the Corpses Tan (2017) Killer Nun (1979) Lola (1981) Satyricon (1969) Roma (1972) Living Still Life (2012) Otto; or, Up With Dead People (2008) Notre Dam des Hormones (2015) Paris is Burning (1990) Daughters of Darkness (1971) Prehistoric Cabaret (2013) The Strange Colour of Your Body’s Tears (2013) Climax (2018) Ultra Reve (2018) Shorts: "Toby Dammit" section of Spirits of the Dead (1968) The Boulet Brother's Dragula - "Meet our Monsters of Season 2" The Boulet Brother's Dragula - "Meet our Monsters of Season 3" "Why Do You Shoot Black People" (2019), by Anatoli Ulyanov Calypso Valois - "Apprivoisé", directed by Bertrand Mandico Juliette (2016), by Lora D'Addazio Kompromat - "Niemand", directed by Bertrand Mandico "Church of Fun" (2019), by Anatoli Ulyanov Perez - "Les Vacances Continuent", directed by Yann Gonzalez "Halfway to Halloween", directed by PJ Magerko, starring Abhora "A Rebours" (2018), by Bertrand Mandico
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Sep 22, 2020 05:13
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Takashi Miike's Audition vs. Ishiro Honda's The Human Vapor aka… “Does It Smell Like Farts In Here To You?” Miike, Miike, Mike. He’s a great director. He makes some really great and beautiful stuff. And tonight while watching I realized he kind of reminds me of Hitchcock and the way he so routinely turned the tables on his audience and played a film one way only to sharply turn in another direction so effectively. And Audition does that really well. I wouldn’t call the first half of the film a romance or anything. There’s something pathetic and kind of sinister about the whole affair. Our protagonist is taking advantage of women and actively seeking out a demure, damaged target. I don’t know that any of that is overtly malicious and abusive but its definitely happening and it makes the whole thing creepy. So when it turns on him… I wouldn’t say he deserves it but I’m not exactly crying for the hunter who gets mauled by a bear. Darwinism? But I think that’s also where the movie kind of leaves me cold because I’m not sure I feel anything for the movie besides being grossed out. I don’t sympathize with him, I don’t really sympathize with her either. I don’t feel like there’s some clear message here and if there was karma in play it probably went too far. But none of that really affects me besides the fact that I don’t really want to eat right now. And to some extent I feel like Miike is a really great direction with incredible skill who’s primary goal as a filmmaker is to trick you into smelling his fart. Every great scene and cut and acting decision is done to build to that moment where he catches you off guard and grosses you out and then laughs hysterically. And like… congrats. You got me. And I get that has appeal to some. But I don’t know. I don’t feel anything for Audition besides cringe. I really liked Human Vapor though. I think its flawed and the pacing is really messed up with us so heavily focused on the Reporter/Cop combo in the first act and the Vapor/Dancer combo in the second act and both combos get kind of neglected otherwise. That could have been balanced a lot better and the film could really do without that extended flashback origin that doesn’t serve a ton of purpose in the film and kind of grinds the flow of the film. But she things are good they’re really good. The reporter reminded me a lot of Daria Nicolodi’s character in Deep Red and I was really enjoying her make her would be love interest frustrated until she kind of disappeared. And I think I didn’t give enough attention to the Dancer and missed some key info and foreshadowing with her, probably because she felt like a side character in the first act. And while the movie bears a lot of resemblance to James Whale’s The Invisible Man our villain isn’t a mad man. Sure that means he’s not doing anything as delightful as scaring the townsfolk and arguing with the moon but it also means he’s not causing train crashes or just killing to prove how powerful he is. He’s definitely lost his grip on humanity and power has corrupted him and made him get fuzzy on where the moral lines are without any fear of consequence. But he’s not mad or irrational and that puts a very different feel and vibe on the story. I liked it and I think I’m gonna give it a rewatch with more attention paid to all the key characters and themes. And to see if anyone indicates whether or not its an odorless gas. So I’m voting Honda. I expect him to lose and for Audition to clear this easy, but what can I say? I’m a square. In fact I think I’m voting for the loser in every matchup this round. Human Vapor, Blade II, Dream Warriors, and Videodrome. I’m really not trying to be but its kind of hilarious how I keep ending up on the opposite end of this thing. But here we are.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:32
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I will be voting for Inland Empire The Devils Audition Dream Warriors Inland Empire, The Devils, and Audition are not just good films, they're some of my favourite films, period. I can't imagine what would compel me to vote against them in any matchup, other than the unfortunate eventuality that they were pitted against each other. Each I think shows its director at the height of their game, something which I don't feel anyone could honestly say about their competitors. Preference is a factor in play, and a strong one at that, I'm not going to disabuse you of your personal experience. Can we really say honestly that the competition marks a similar high watermark in the creative journeys of their directors though? Perhaps you could make that argument with The Human Vapor, which for me is second only to Matango of the Honda films I've seen, but even that pales in comparison to "kiri-kiri-kiri". I'm also voting for Dream Warriors, largely based on the fact that it doesn't contain a woman triumphantly telling the Devil that her childhood rape left her unable to conceive. Faust is a far more upsetting film than Audition could ever be.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:49
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The argument that Miike is just a “kid chasing you with a booger” or whatever is infantilizing and kinda problematic. There is absolutely a purpose to how he sets up the audience with a certain expectation in order to drastically change tone. I don’t know why he gets that label while other directors get away with doing the same thing. I understand Miike takes it to a certain extreme but there is nothing necessarily wrong with that.
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Sep 22, 2020 17:24
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TrixRabbi posted:Ok but please refer to my latter point I wasn't knocking The Devils saying it's not a good movie. I've sat through various edits and still a good movie. But when it comes down to that edge of 'I think I just sat through something genuinely blasphemous/sacriligious' discomfort, Alucarda has it more than The Devils does.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:11
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WeaponX posted:The argument that Miike is just a “kid chasing you with a booger” or whatever is infantilizing and kinda problematic. There is absolutely a purpose to how he sets up the audience with a certain expectation in order to drastically change tone. I don’t know why he gets that label while other directors get away with doing the same thing. I understand Miike takes it to a certain extreme but there is nothing necessarily wrong with that. I think I was the first person to bring up that phrase here, and it was whilst quoting Garbage Baby from the Discord. I can only speak for myself, but it was meant as high praise. I certainly didn't see it as problematic, as I don't consider having a whimsical sense of playfulness as a problem, and it certainly doesn't seek to deny Miike his talent or thoughtfulness. If that was the impression I was giving off, I apologize.
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Sep 22, 2020 19:26
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:I think I was the first person to bring up that phrase here, and it was whilst quoting Garbage Baby from the Discord. I can only speak for myself, but it was meant as high praise. I certainly didn't see it as problematic, as I don't consider having a whimsical sense of playfulness as a problem, and it certainly doesn't seek to deny Miike his talent or thoughtfulness. If that was the impression I was giving off, I apologize. Totally understood- I am being too defensive over a director I think is just often misunderstood.
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Sep 22, 2020 19:33
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I didn't mean to take away from him either. I thought I was trying to do work to make that clear by both complimenting his great skill as well as comparing him to Hitchcock. The thought did cross my mind that if Hitchcock was born 60 years later maybe he would have been trying much different things to shock his audience than a shower scene or being trapped in a room with a couple of hundred birds. I just was trying to find a way to verbalizes why like even though I think Miike is an excellent filmmaker and even though I think Audition might be the best of his films I've seen and even though I might say its the better made of the two films I just don't get anything from it or feel anything for it. And my best stab at that is that Miike's in it for the thrills and they don't do much for me. But I'm not angry at him or anything. I definitely think Miike is a lot closer to Hitchcock than someone like Eli Roth.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:21
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STAC Goat posted:The thought did cross my mind that if Hitchcock was born 60 years later maybe he would have been trying much different things to shock his audience than a shower scene or being trapped in a room with a couple of hundred birds. He got eliminated before it could come up but have you seen Frenzy? Cause it's absolutely Hitchcock's graphic entry for the censorship-light 70s. Honestly, the innovation I lament Hitchcock missing out on more than anything isn't so much gore effects, rather I would have killed to see what he'd have done with Steadicam.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:23
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I have not seen Frenzy but its on the list. I'm gonna try and go back and catch some of the Must Watch movies we missed with the early knockouts in October. And yeah, I wasn't so much saying that Hitchcock would have oded on gore or anything. And honestly, I don't think of Miike as a gore guy. But both obviously were great at shifting tone and enjoyed luring you in with one thing and then surprising you with another. And maybe Hitchcock would have had to go a little further to surprise people if he was making films in the 21st century. I dunno. But I think that's the thing. If Miike was a bad director or if I was dismissing him as just an edgelord or something then I'd just be doing that. But instead I'm sitting here comparing him to Alfred Hitchcock. So I don't mean to diminish him even if I'm definitely not feeling him.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:37
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