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You know, I think I'm going to gush about Human Vapor some in my next post. It won't sway people and it shouldn't sway people but it's going to be my farewell to Honda. He's one of the originals, one of the old guard that never gets the same attention as the others, but I hope I've done my work to prove why he deserves all that and more, for more than just one or two films.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:42
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Well if nothing else you got me - a person who had never seen a single Honda film before this - to watch Godzilla 3 times and declare it one of my favorites, vote for Honda 3 out of 4 times in the tournament, put 4 more Honda films on my October list, and even if not Honda related plan to dig into Ultraman in November. So you affected one life. But I'm still not watching Deadly Friend purely out of spite.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:45
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Yeah, I thought The Human Vapor was quite good and it could have potentially won in an earlier round. It goes down against a worthy opponent.
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Sep 23, 2020 00:32
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I'm voting for Human Vapor myself, but mostly because Audition left me cold. I think it's for some of the reasons STAC Goat laid out; the characters aren't relatable enough in the first half to make me invested in anything that happens to them later (aside from the son, who is too minor to carry it). To some extent I think there is some Miike fatigue for me, or at least I feel that his other films are more fascinating and visually distinctive than this. Audition was a film I always almost picked up at the video store before deciding on something else, so I missed out on seeing it totally unspoiled and that may have affected my experience as well. Human Vapor is not particularly great, and I definitely don't think it measures up to other Honda movies, but I do like the way some of the scenes are shot. It's probably one that I'd be willing to revisit, which I probably would not do with Audition. (Also it was hard not to laugh at seeing Phil Moskewitz as the detective.)
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Sep 23, 2020 13:35
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WeaponX posted:The argument that Miike is just a “kid chasing you with a booger” or whatever is infantilizing and kinda problematic. There is absolutely a purpose to how he sets up the audience with a certain expectation in order to drastically change tone. I don’t know why he gets that label while other directors get away with doing the same thing. I understand Miike takes it to a certain extreme but there is nothing necessarily wrong with that. Miike is probably my favourite director, so I definitely didn't mean it to diminish him, his work or his talent at all. I think it came up in the context of trying to explain why the extreme violence in his films felt so gleeful and devoid of malice to me, as opposed to something like The Guinea Pig film series. It was also a means of trying to bridge the gap in my mind between his more extreme films like Visitor Q and Ichi the Killer and his other, lighter work. His filmography runs the gamut of genres and styles, which can make it feel a little schizophrenic at times, but I felt that what linked them together was a similar sense of child-like enthusiasm and wonder. I'm not well-versed in the more technical aspects of filmmaking, so I'm sure there are probably way more common elements in that respect, but that's just the general lizard brain vibe I was getting. It was really just a stupid thought experiment, and, if anything, the facile booger comparison is more of an indictment of my own puerile nature, as I fully admit to being a trashy "poo poo, pee pee, fart" moron. Sorry! Yesterdays Piss fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 17:15
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It’s kinda silly of me to take that stance in this thread when we are clearly all horror fans and most of us have at least an appreciation of his work so no need for anyone to apologize or anything. It’s just a trend I see with Miike and the criticism of his work. I also am super defensive over Miike because I really love his work and how fearless he is...it’s refreshing to me even when he is being revolting. I hope all in all, his legacy is one of a groundbreaking, thoughtful, and intensely satirical director and not just a shock-value guy.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:24
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I would still love it if someone defended Gozu for me. It just came across as homophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic. The gross-out finale felt like a relief from whatever he was trying to say with the body of the text(celluloid?).
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Sep 23, 2020 18:17
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I absolutely agree that criticism of his work tends to be disproportionately focused on the more shocking elements, which can overshadow stuff like his affection for "outsiders" and "underdogs" (I think it's no coincidence that his films tend to be more much more racially diverse than most other Japanese films). I think a comparison can be drawn between him and bigshot auteur David Lynch (who I also love to pieces), as both like to showcase the seedy underbelly of polite society, except that Miike does so without as much judgement I feel. Both of them see the maggots writhing in that soft underbelly, but while Lynch sees nightmarish, threatening creatures, Miike sees some cool-rear end bugs. I'm too shy to make a Miike effort post beyond that, so I'll go back to lurking. But yeah. Miike is great, vote for Audition. (And Happiness of the Katakuris is better than y'all are giving it credit for!)
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Sep 23, 2020 18:34
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Yesterdays Piss posted:I'm too shy to make a Miike effort post   Seriously, your comments in the Discord are always a highlight for me, and I want to see more from you!
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Sep 23, 2020 18:38
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Yesterdays Piss posted:
No way, the horror thread is the friendliest bunch of people in the whole forum! You're extremely welcome here, especially if you bring effort posts!
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Sep 23, 2020 18:50
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Yesterdays Piss posted:I'm too shy to make a Miike effort post beyond that, so I'll go back to lurking. Come with me if you want to post. 
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Sep 23, 2020 18:55
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Yesterdays Piss posted:...Happiness of the Katakuris is better than y'all are giving it credit for... What the gently caress has someone been poo poo-talking Happiness? All horror musicals deserve love, especially Happiness.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:25
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Genuinely curious now if anyone in here has or can find any love for Rock 'n' Roll Frankenstein.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:57
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I just watched the trailer, and I'm honestly shocked that someone thought a homophobic musical was a good idea.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:05
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The Davidoff So obviously I'd take either of these over 99% of what's in the running and I think the virtues of both are pretty apparent and well-covered, so it comes down to which one resonates with you more. For me that's Videodrome and Cronenberg in general. Lynch is a humanist and his movies, especially Inland Empire, are intimately concerned with the feelings and experiences of their characters. And I think that's cool and I enjoy the time I spend with them, but it doesn't leave me with much after the fact; I don't know what there really is to learn from a deep dive on an individual beyond that people are varied and weird. Cronenberg and Videodrome, on the other hand, are a little more cynical and all society-focused. That's where my head is at these days and it feels more important to me - the world is small, and we're all so densely interconnected that a lot of things which might sound good in a vacuum cannot work in the world we have to deal with today. And not that I think this is particularly a failing of Lynch, but I think it's why small character-focused stuff doesn't really hit me. And why Videodrome works so well - it's full of that kind of thought and large-scale consequence.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:37
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Random unformed thought, it's interesting that Videodrome is sort of the industrialized, mass market version of the video from Ringu.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:48
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I was thinking that too. Videodrome is a really interesting film because Cronenberg was clearly ahead of his time in a bunch of ways with it. I'm not sure any of those ideas were fully formed or the film feels completed, but there's a lot of interesting ideas in there.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:51
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Videodrome had a few issues during the making, where Cronenberg kept changing his mind, and the original script didn't have an ending. I think he wrote the ending towards the end of the shoot. That's probably why it feels like it's ideas aren't fully formed, or it's philosophy isn't clear. There's that scene where Max finds out Harlan is in on Videodrome and says "Wow, you've been here what, two years?" and Harlan says, sincerely, "Yes, two wonderful years". A minute later Harlan gets angry then calls Max and his TV station sick and degenerate and a sign of society's decay. It feels all over the place. While that would normally bother me, in Videodrome it works. The movie starts breaking down as Max's mind does, so in the end we can't make sense of things or recognize what's real any more than Max can.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:03
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Why do I feel like we’re gonna get a 50/50 Lynch/Cronenberg tie
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Sep 23, 2020 23:15
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Darthemed posted:Genuinely curious now if anyone in here has or can find any love for Rock 'n' Roll Frankenstein. Never saw it, but Rockula is great. Toni Basil playing off-brand Elvira is a trip
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Sep 23, 2020 23:26
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STAC Goat posted:I was thinking that too. Videodrome is a really interesting film because Cronenberg was clearly ahead of his time in a bunch of ways with it. I'm not sure any of those ideas were fully formed or the film feels completed, but there's a lot of interesting ideas in there. I feel like Videodrome could be a really interesting choice for a remake these days - keep the themes about human/technological synthesis, but shift the perspective from televisions and VHS/Beta tapes to portable screens and ever-present connectivity. Not a pirate signal but a dark web site; not a dead guy on a tape library but a dead guy on a mass of short snippets in the cloud, Max Headroom style. Oh and you have to keep the fleshy mutations and chest vaginas, obviously.
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Sep 24, 2020 05:08
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I just don't know what you would need to invaginate in the remake though. VHS tapes worked well, but even an optical disc seems to be outdated for that purpose. I'm going with David Lynch on that match-up, because I think Inland Empire was the first time I really got Lynch as a horror director. I always thought he was more about showing things that are seedy and off-kilter and creepy, but watching that it really struck me that the things he is displaying can be terrifying, and I would not be surprised if it is in fact the sort of thing that he finds very scary. I like the upthread comparison that Miike sees some of the same things as fascinating. But I also think Miike is terribly disturbed by the fact that people do find them fascinating.
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Sep 24, 2020 05:26
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Okay let's talk HUMAN VAPOR for a hot minute Gasu ningen dai 1 gō-Gas Human Number 1 So some of this is going to sound pretentious as gently caress but that's the way the movie rolls so take what you want. There's some poo poo, one big thing in particular, you can and probably will miss going into this, and absolutely will not pay attention to. And that's okay. Unless I miss my mark, most of ya'll ain't Japanese and haven't been immersed in Japanese poo poo for decades like I have. I can't claim to have a perfect working understanding of the culture but I have done a fair bit of research and gleamed a lot. Difficult to do for a country you're not part of but not impossible. It helps that Japan and the US have been closely linked- trying to do the same with less connected nations is a far more troubling task. But that's me trying to look into African and Turkish stuff which is another discussion. Culture is the name of the game because this is a very theatrical film, in a uniquely, overtly Japanese way. The film sets off with a pair of cops going after a bank robber. This is a distraction, a ploy to lead us to the true main character and the actual story- the cop discovers the thief has vanished into the wind, as it were, and finds a small home nearby. There he sees a woman in ceremonial garb, wearing a frightful Oni mask, dancing by herself. He stares transfixed, and we are introduced to the driving character of the film. She is the Fujichiyo, and she is the heart and soul of the film. She is at once the victim of the story and the monster- the cause of all the grief and pain. She and the titular Human Vapor are linked, one entity tied together metaphorically speaking. Something her recital, which we see in part several times and in full once, go into. We begin the film with the ending of the story as her recital plays out exactly what she will do. For those who don't know, few of you that may be, Oni are a type of yokai-Japanese Spirit- generally comparable to demons. The recital that Fujichiyo is performing is one about becoming an Oni, and then putting that Oni to rest at the cost of your own life. She herself is a spirit, in a non literal sense. Much like the titular Human Vapor, she has been shunned by society and spoken of as something less than human. She was a rich woman, an artisan and performer, but her family lost their wealth and she was effectively exiled. We find her refusing to bow her head to this injustice, still perfecting her art even while having to live in a small home in the middle of the woods. Much the same as the Human Vapor, Mizuno, is rejected by humanity when his true nature is revealed. While he has killed a few, VERY few, people, his most central crime is simply existing. Because he is different he must be destroyed, and there is no attempt to make peace with him. He does commit crimes- robbing banks and killing people that get in his way, but it is to the ultimate goal of bringing justice to Fujichiyo. When she learns of his crimes, of how society views him and her through relation, she embraces him. He is her Oni. He is her dark spirit, manifested to punish the world for what it has done to her. And she is the one who has to put him to rest. She wishes to perform but holds no ill will towards anyone. She does not protest how she has been treated, she does not insult or belittle those who prey on her status or mock her. She holds her head up and continues living how she chooses to, defying what others believe she should be. She accepts this man as her responsibility as well. She makes it clear through dialogue, though no one listens, that her next recital will be her last. Her final. The police work with her to rig up the recital hall to fill with a gas and explode, which she agrees to, knowing its the only way to put Mizuno to rest. However she does not play by their rules. This is her finale and she will not let anyone but herself close the curtain on it. She sabotages the explosives, which the police do not discover until she is already in the middle of her recital. The same one we see at the beginning. The one about a woman transformed into an Oni, who eventually has to bring herself to an end. The beginning tells the ending as she finishes her recital, Mizuno offering her a standing ovation. The two embrace, and she closes the curtain with a lighter. Human Vapor is not a perfect movie. It is deeply flawed in its ways. Making Mizuno a sci-fi horror was a mistake, in my eyes, as there is a strong spiritual tone to the story with the repeated traditional Japanese music and theatrics on display. Giving him a bloated origin story is also a mistake and it only serves to obscure what the movie is truly about. The police do not know what to do with either Fujichiyo or Mizuno. Fujichiyo has done nothing wrong so they cannot arrest her- despite wanting to. Mizuno is unable to be captured and cannot be arrested. And that's all they know how to do to deal with them. Quickly her life is considered forfeit by the law, used as bait to trap and murder Mizuno because all their other efforts have failed. The only one to cry at the fate of the pair is the reporter, the one who figured out what was going on and tried to connect to Fujichiyo as a person. She is ignored, both in her pleas to save Fujichiyo and in her grief at the end. But the ending is not a moment of glory for the law, Fujichiyo saw to that. She ended her story on her terms, head held high. She put her demons to rest. This is the end of the road for Honda, I'm almost certain. I hope you guys check out the rest of his work. The man is underrated but those who know him, know him well. John Carpenter considers him one of his cinematic Gods, Martin Scorsese praised his work and life in his biography, and Kurosawa trusted and believed in the man enough to have him ghost direct his final films after his blindness had gotten so bad. Akira Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune, his most famous leading man from several of his films (notably as Sanjuro) had a very public falling out that lasted for decades. They would only find reconciliation in 1993, at the funeral of Ishiro Honda, a mutual friend of both men. Honda doesn't get a lot of respect because he took any job the studio offered him. He was a workman director. He did what job he was given and he did it as well as he could. Not all of his movies are all time classics, but they're all better for his involvement. And I hope you all are better for having seen them too.
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Sep 24, 2020 08:42
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drat, we're already going into the Final Four today. I know it shouldn't surprising, but it's wild how fast the back half of this tournament has moved.
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Sep 24, 2020 14:02
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I'm real excited for the results. David on David violence has got me on the edge of my seat
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Sep 24, 2020 14:51
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Tarnop posted:I'm real excited for the results. David on David violence has got me on the edge of my seat 
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Sep 24, 2020 14:55
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Evil Eight resolved! Yay the very normal Canadian director took down the HOLLYWEIRD ABSURDIST. Of course, the eternally horny Russell beat out del Toro's most fun movie  Miike's greatest masterpiece took down Honda, but take a bow, Burkion, I think we all learned something this year about the power of a rubber suit and a dream. Speaking of dreams, the Dream Warriors couldn't overcome Freddy Fatigue. Frightful Four up in a few.
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Sep 24, 2020 15:35
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I'm not surprised, but I'm sad that David beat David. edit: FAUST BEAT DREAM WARRIORS? Y'all are some miscreants.
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Sep 24, 2020 15:42
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Franchescanado posted:I'm not surprised, but I'm sad that David beat David.  It got me to finally watch Inland Empire though, and for that I'm eternally grateful
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Sep 24, 2020 15:43
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I'm happy that Cronenberg pulled it out. I feel like he's had a larger impact on the genre than Lynch and is just more of a horror icon that brings some needed legitimacy to this Final Four.
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Sep 24, 2020 15:48
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Lynch should have won but Inland Empire is very challenging and I don’t fault anyone for not enjoying itBasebf555 posted:I'm happy that Cronenberg pulled it out. I feel like he's had a larger impact on the genre than Lynch and is just more of a horror icon that brings some needed legitimacy to this Final Four. It would have been a very non-horror finale without Cronenberg but I’d say Lynch has been more influential- maybe it’s because his style is so distinct but I feel like I see clear echoes of Lynch all the time in modern horror films
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Sep 24, 2020 15:50
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It's the FRIGHTFUL FOUR!   Russell, with the shortest list, gets a re-roll (actually 2 because the first re-roll was for The Devils, which he just pulled. This means, if he moves on, his finals trilogy will be his other three films. Cronenberg gets his last open film, meaning he could get any 3 other than Rabid if he advances.  Yayyy! It's Katakuri time! This movie is absolutely bugnuts insane in the best way, I love it. Also Yuzna, the most underseeded person in this competition, draws arguably his strongest film in a catalog that is actually pretty stacked. Here we go, start posting, folks! then VOTE HERE! Share this link! Finals begin Sep 30th.
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Sep 24, 2020 15:52
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Ah, didn't think Cronenberg would win this, but I suppose it was a great matchup and a fair fight.
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Sep 24, 2020 15:55
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Thank god Yuzna got Return 3, as much as I love him, his other options (except for Bride) were pretty dire.... Yuzna vs. Miike is gonna be a tough one for me
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Sep 24, 2020 15:55
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Lair of the White Worm smokes Rabid. For anyone keeping stats, there are no longer any Americans left in the tournament. Russell represents UK, Cronenberg represents Canada, Miike represents Japan, and while an American citizen, Yuzna is Filipino and didn't move to America until he was a (pre-?)teen.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:01
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Oh hell yeah I was literally going to watch Happiness tomorrow anyway
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Sep 24, 2020 16:08
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Where To Stream This Round's Scaries Rabid Kanopy Tubi (free with ads) Mubi epix Dark Matter TV (free with ads; $5 subscription takes away ads) Lair of the White Worm Tubi (free with ads) Happiness of the Katakuris Amazon Prime (US) Tubi (free with ads; might be a dub) Return of the Living Dead 3 Amazon Prime (US) Tubi (free with ads)
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Sep 24, 2020 16:16
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Can I just jump straight in to Return of the Living Dead 3 without seeing 2?
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Sep 24, 2020 16:34
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Assuming Miike can beat Cronenberg's Rabid, which is a mildly interesting zombie movie, does he have it in the bag? I think Russell made it as far as he could, repeat viewings aren't going to do it for him, definitely not twice. No idea about the movies Yuzna has left. Are we going to have fight for the 3rd place too?
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Sep 24, 2020 16:35
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 07:33 |
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Tarnop posted:Can I just jump straight in to Return of the Living Dead 3 without seeing 2? Yes. It's self-contained. married but discreet posted:Are we going to have fight for the 3rd place too? How would this work, since half of the contenders would be stealing votes from the other half?
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Sep 24, 2020 16:36
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