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I grew up on MST3K like most of you but I weirdly don't remember individual movies, just like the broad notes and characters. I've been having a lot of fun watching Svengoolie the last month and enjoyed that MST3K so yeah, I'm kind of tempted. But I'm crazy so like I won't pick random episodes. I'll watch what airs or is assigned to me or I'll watch in a set order but I'm just not wired to pick random episodes. Like I was asking continuity questions about the episode I watched. I'm nuts. Repeat to yourself its just a show... you should really just relax... Ok, onto another thing I'll say that is probably gonna get you guys mad at me and how crazy I am... Brian Yuzna’s Bride of Re-Animator vs. Kiyoshi Kurosawa’s Cure I came real late to the Re-Animator series but its one that really lived up to the build and moved up in my rankings fast. Its funny too because I often say gore or nihilism or mean stuff isn’t my thing but good is good and I’m usually talking about deeper or worse cases. But the Re-Animator movies are just fun. I probably shouldn’t have re-watched the original with Bride because its hard to separate the two in terms of my enjoyment. While I think I like Gordon more on average than Yuzna I think I prefer Yuzna’s. I think Gordon’s feels a bit like a short story stretched out very thin, and that works for it because there’s very little downtime and people react quickly and rationally. Meg barely even has time to process what’s happened before she’s like “Maybe we need to break up.” Which makes a bit more sense than Francesca coming back for Cain multiple times. But Yuzna has more of a full story with different threads that all end up coming back to the big finale, and I really enjoy a good story. And the finale is just bat poo poo insane. I also think the longer story shows us who West is more because in the first film everything moves fast enough that you can tell he’s amoral but it never breathes. In Bride he’s just bored half the time and when he’s bored he just creates freakish things out of dead people because they’re nothing more than tools for him. In the finale there’s a great contrast of all the characters with Francesca being horrified, the Bride being confused and in anguish, and Cain just completely removed from reality and hating what he’s done and become. But West is like just pissed off he’s not getting credit and taking notes on his experiment. He’s just such a total sociopath. But in a funny way. Cure. Man… I’m sorry. I don’t think I liked it? I wanted to like it. I really did. I really like the story on paper. I really like the idea and all the elements. I just couldn’t engage. It feels like a repeat thing really. Lynch, Cronenberg, Memories of Murder (which I see was inspired by this). I can see the good and quality, there’s just an almost clinical approach that I can’t connect with. I think I’ll want to revisit this sometime and I expect you guys to rake me over the coals for this and I’m actually kind of looking forward to it and hearing the stuff I missed and the arguments for why I’m wrong. I WANT to like this. I just didn’t get there for some reason. This feels like the kind of piece that will haunt me as I keep asking what I'm missing and rewatching. So yeah, Bride of Re-Animator. Truthfully even if I had liked Cure more I think that would have been a slam dunk anyway. Supernatural nuttiness just does more for me than cop thriller. I'll go duck for cover and with this week done I can relax a bit. And with no idea of what will come next week I can watch whatever I like tomorrow. Besides baseball doubleheader. But I should really get on Twin Peaks. Speaking of stuff I just can't engage with that probably makes you guys respect me less. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 06:46
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STAC Goat posted:John Carpenter’s Prince of Darkness vs. Jack Arnold’s Revenge of the Creature The church doesn't call in Birack because they found the Jar of Evil. They call him in to prove the scientific formulae in the book that goes with it, and they make him get his own translator for the written parts so nobody can claim they led him to the conclusion.
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Aug 5, 2020 08:52
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STAC Goat posted:
1. It's okay to like different things  2. What really grabbed me with Cure, was a mix of relentless slowly ramping tension, with zero relief, and then the mystery aspect. During the stream we were all feverishly trying to work out what was happening, and what the rules were. We were trying to make connections with different films, and cultures, and mythos. It was fun. I completely agree with your criticisms of it being a very clinical film, but for me that helped with the sense if powerlessness that fed into the tension.
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Aug 5, 2020 11:51
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:1. It's okay to like different things Your 2nd point really articulates what I liked about Cure. It engaged me/us like we were equally involved with the mystery the protagonist is faced with, and are trying to understand/solve the mystery just as much as he is. That becomes complicated with the moments that seemingly break the reality of the film. Usually the rules of a well-written mystery are "can the audience solve it with the clues?", which is fun but not always worthwhile once it's over. Cure, presenting a rather absurd situation that's too big to be knowable (my favorite kind of mystery; Inherent Vice and other Pynchon novels, a few Lynch films), does the same thing. But since Cure's mystery of memetic hypnotic (or psychic) influence that leads to destruction / murder starts the story where it's almost too late to save the day, the experience is in trying to understand and tie it together while constantly soaking you with dreadful atmosphere. It's an interesting use of the murder mystery genre and also an effective use of horror.
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Aug 5, 2020 12:45
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I really enjoyed The Quiet Family a lot. Very tense, stylish, good performances, and of course the signature South Korean humor and plenty of it. I'm glad I'm making a point to watch these movies even if I already know I'm not voting for them(Poltergeist is a movie I watch like once a year, it's a classic) because each week I'm seeing at least one new and interesting film that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:35
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Basebf555 posted:I really enjoyed The Quiet Family a lot. Very tense, stylish, good performances, and of course the signature South Korean humor and plenty of it. I'm glad I'm making a point to watch these movies even if I already know I'm not voting for them(Poltergeist is a movie I watch like once a year, it's a classic) because each week I'm seeing at least one new and interesting film that I probably wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah, this is absolutely the best part of this tournament for me. A lot of these are movies I haven't thought to put on a watch list or to include in a horror challenge, and a couple are some that have sat on my list for years. When the pool gets smaller and the names get more familiar, it's gonna be fun to revisit favorites, but I'd still much rather watch the stuff I haven't seen from directors I know and enjoy.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:53
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Part of me regrets including the duos, seeing how this has played out and realizing that repeats are gonna be a bit of a drag. On the other hand I still lol at the fact that all six of them are now competing in free-for-alls because we can't come to consensus on 'em.
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Aug 5, 2020 15:54
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At least the repeats will give us some easy movies to skip and like keep us from totally burning out. Franchescanado posted:Your 2nd point really articulates what I liked about Cure. It engaged me/us like we were equally involved with the mystery the protagonist is faced with, and are trying to understand/solve the mystery just as much as he is. That becomes complicated with the moments that seemingly break the reality of the film. Usually the rules of a well-written mystery are "can the audience solve it with the clues?", which is fun but not always worthwhile once it's over. Cure, presenting a rather absurd situation that's too big to be knowable (my favorite kind of mystery; Inherent Vice and other Pynchon novels, a few Lynch films), does the same thing. But since Cure's mystery of memetic hypnotic (or psychic) influence that leads to destruction / murder starts the story where it's almost too late to save the day, the experience is in trying to understand and tie it together while constantly soaking you with dreadful atmosphere. It's an interesting use of the murder mystery genre and also an effective use of horror. I don't mind not being able to solve the mystery. I actually much rather be surprised than "call it". But I guess I also feel like if you spend 2 hours on a "mystery" its gotta pay off and I'm not sure Cure did. Like I said, I liked the idea in there but I'm not sure it ever really fully made sense to me or anything. And I'm fine with stuff that doesn't make complete sense. There's a number of those movies in this round. But if its a 2 hour mystery the math changes. But I think this may be my problem with a lot of these directors. Some just want to do deep dives into weird ideas and imagery and not pay them off and I think that frustrates me. But some of it is also definitely the clinical presentation of the film. Like Sakuma's suicide and Mamiya murder and the cop's wife's murder all happen so fast and they SHOULD have really impacted me but something about how coldly and matter of factly it all happened and how quickly they just brush past each of them kept me from feeling any of it.
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Aug 5, 2020 20:42
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I feel like the last 15 - 20 minutes are purposefully rapid-fire, staccato, and dreamlike, as we see the world through the cop's eyes, who is now awakening as a psychic(?) killer. Much like with the previous killer, his short term memory is vanishing. All that exists for him are these flashes of the Black Lodge, the murders, and waking up in these random locations, like the cafe. e: I agree, it's confusing on a first viewing though. Moving on, my final votes will be: Cure Poltergeist Home Sick Prince of Darkness Home Sick and PoD are easy picks. Revenge of the Creature is a bad cash-in, and a vote for Covenant is a vote for  Poltergeist absolutely knocks it out of the park every time. That said, I was incredibly impressed by The Quiet Family. I didn't appreciate some of Kim Jee-woon's other work, so to see him so ably juggle comedy, farce, and horror, was eye-opening. It just wasn't enough to beat Hooper though. Cure Vs. Bride is an absolute 50/50 split for me. I love both films for completely different reasons, so I'm going for the director who I'm more unfamiliar with because I just want to explore their back catalog. I already know Yuzna, I love Yuzna, it's just time for us to see other people. It's me, not you. Debbie Does Dagon fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 21:16
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I loved The Quiet Family, don't think I'd ever heard of it before so mighty pleased to be taking part in voting for this. Easy vote against Poltergeist which didn't quite hold up for me on a recent rewatch.
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Aug 5, 2020 23:39
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I'll be doing an impromptu  Prince of Darkness stream at 1915 EST today over on Discord because I'm awake, and it's the last film I need to rewatch. Come along and watch, won't we?
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Aug 5, 2020 23:55
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Dennis Dun is the absolute MVP of Prince of Darkness.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:43
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married but discreet posted:Dennis Dun is the absolute MVP of Prince of Darkness. I can agree with that, if only because you know what you're getting with a Donald Pleasence/Victor Wong scene, that's expected greatness. But the movie involves a lot of scenes where it's just the college kids hanging around doing their work and without Dennis Dun those scenes would've been terminally boring.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:46
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Yeah, the students would have been a real black hole without him and if they had to rely on that weird main couple. I love that Dun gets away.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:48
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Prince of Darkness stood as one of my favourite Carpenter films. I loved the apocalyptic tone and the weird mix of quantum physics and theology. Now I truly, from the bottom of my heart, loving hate this movie. Carpenter should feel lucky that they hurt a crane in Revenge of the Creature, or I'd be voting against him right now.Letterboxd posted:Well, this is a lot more misogynistic than I remember. Our hero is introduced to us stalking a young woman, and when he finally catches up with her, he proudly declares himself a sexist and then gaslights her when she doesn't respond receptively. Do you want to know why more women don't join the physics department, Brian? Because of incel chuds like you.
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Aug 6, 2020 02:42
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I agree that Brian's terrible but like I chalk it up to the way people like Tom Atkins even though he's a total sleazeball. The movie would suck if it relied on him being the lead but it doesn't so he's just another character to me. I also kind of wonder where the line is between "seeing someone attractive and approaching them soon after" and "stalking" but that "proud sexist" weirdness soon after doesn't do him any favors. The homeless people thing... I dunno. I can see the problem especially with the idea that Satan can affect "simple minded creatures". But I dunno. Everyone falls victim to it over time and the homeless people are probably just the ones who have had the longest exposure plus are beat down with stuff like hunger and fatigue even if there's not some mental illness or whatever. I dunno, its probably problematic but I'm not sure I expect more from 80s Carpenter no matter how much I love him.
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Aug 6, 2020 02:53
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Brian's character has always been an issue with the movie, no doubt about it. I suppose I've built up a tolerance for lovely leads in horror movies but if someone said Brian killed the movie for them I wouldn't really be able to argue. It's certainly a big reason why Prince of Darkness is usually not considered top-tier Carpenter.
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Aug 6, 2020 03:01
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Yeah, I don't mean to defend Brian. Its just like... sleazeball misogynistic male lead is such a standard in 80s horror I'm completely desensitized to it unless he does something extremely hosed up. Like Dennis Dun's character is an rear end in a top hat too and I can totally get if there's just too many paper thin characters whose only defining characteristics are casually sexist or racist jokes for it to work for you. I think I mostly engage with Wong and Pleasance.
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Aug 6, 2020 03:03
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STAC Goat posted:I agree that Brian's terrible but like I chalk it up to the way people like Tom Atkins even though he's a total sleazeball. The movie would suck if it relied on him being the lead but it doesn't so he's just another character to me. I also kind of wonder where the line is between "seeing someone attractive and approaching them soon after" and "stalking" but that "proud sexist" weirdness soon after doesn't do him any favors. It doesn't, but I think it's more that Brian is trying to be funny and casual and he's completely misread the room. That said I'd agree with you more if not for the end scene, where he's clearly traumatised by losing Catherine. His nightmare isn't just recalling the horror, it's about her becoming part of the horror. So whether or not he started as a creep, he grows and changes by the end. Regarding the homeless people, it's fairly explicit that many of them are mentally unwell (Cooper's character is even called the Street Schizo) and homeless people do often spend a lot of time around churches because they operate soup kitchens and the like. The lady who braces the priest at the gate also says that it's wonderful he's reopening the church, which has surely been closed for a long time considering that Satan is in the basement. So it's definitely a combination of prolonged exposure, perhaps over many years, and being somewhat of an open door to begin with.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:22
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I don't want to make assumptions about who people are in their daily lives, so that's my goal here. I find it very hard though to feel complacent about these things, because I still see them in my day to day life, and they're poo poo I constantly have to worry about. When I finish work today, I'm going to be using public transport after midnight, and I have to think about what I'm wearing, how my hair looks, how my makeup looks, because I don't want to be followed home. That's not a hypothetical scenario for me, it's happened before, and it's terrifying. I absolutely get that a lot of this stuff becomes background noise after a while, especially when dealing with '80s genre cinema. There are films from the time which do get it right though, like Slumber Party Massacre. I'm not really sure what my point is beyond "it sucks", but it just sucks I guess. I want to see better from the genre I love, and it still stings when I don't.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:27
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Heads up, results and matchups will be closer to noon today because I'm helping my mom move.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:30
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:I don't want to make assumptions about who people are in their daily lives, so that's my goal here. I find it very hard though to feel complacent about these things, because I still see them in my day to day life, and they're poo poo I constantly have to worry about. When I finish work today, I'm going to be using public transport after midnight, and I have to think about what I'm wearing, how my hair looks, how my makeup looks, because I don't want to be followed home. That's not a hypothetical scenario for me, it's happened before, and it's terrifying. I can appreciate that, and it wasn't my intention to belittle your opinion in any way. As a man it's a lot easier for me to... I don't want to say "read less into it", it's more that I don't have to read as much into it because failing to read something that is there doesn't carry the same consequences. I think some of the problem is the forced compression of relationships in cinema. Everything becomes weirder when it takes place over less time. It could definitely be handled better in Prince of Darkness, though.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:42
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:Prince of Darkness stood as one of my favourite Carpenter films. I loved the apocalyptic tone and the weird mix of quantum physics and theology. Now I truly, from the bottom of my heart, loving hate this movie. Carpenter should feel lucky that they hurt a crane in Revenge of the Creature, or I'd be voting against him right now. Hopefully you don't have to watch Vampires, because it's more egregious in all of these (especially the homophobia), plus has James Woods, a piece of poo poo, doing most of it. Sheryl Lee getting turned into a vampire used as an analogy of sexual assault has aged very poorly*, with how half-baked the character is by the end (she's basically in the story to only be a victim, and then to be hysterical from being a victim). And the movie loses steam in the last act due to the budget running out. Just a mess I would be embarrassed to show to my friend group, which is mostly women and gay men. *compared to Ferarra's The Addiction, which doesn't present the vampiric attack as sexual or titillating, but still is able to be interpreted as an analogy of assault. edit: I don't necessarily need my characters to be moralistic, or devoid of shittiness. I like, say, Tom Atkins as the piece of poo poo dad in Halloween 3, because he's clearly a hosed up guy. There's a fine line, though, with how the movie feels like it's aligning it's views. To go back to Vampires, it feels like James Woods was allowed creative control of the character and dialogue, and he chose to be a homophobic dirtbag rear end in a top hat. But, like, James Woods is that. So it doesn't feel like a creative choice anymore, it feels like he was given license to be an rear end in a top hat in the name of a character. And every audience member gets to choose whether or not they like it, cuz ultimately, it's your time and your patience. Why spend 2 hours with a monster of a character that's presented in an off-putting way? Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 17:00
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Absolutely. Sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and racist people exist in real life, so they should occasionally be reflected on film. It really is what you do with those characters. I remember arguing in the April thread that I wanted to see flawed queer characters on screen, and even rear end in a top hat queer people, and queer villains. It's so boring when we're just railroaded into the safe best friend role. Give me complexity even if it doesn't work out, even if it crashes and burns. Just don't reward the creepy gaslighting stalker, please. I've not seen Vampires, but I hope it comes up next*. Let's shake things up for the people who think Carpenter is going to walk away with the tournament. *I can't remember if it's in the tournament.
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Aug 6, 2020 18:02
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Nah, Vampires didn't make the cut. Carpenter's resume is too deep for that.
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Aug 6, 2020 18:06
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Carpenter Line-Up (Not necessarily in order) Prince of Darkness Christine The Thing Halloween The Fog In the Mouth of Madness
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Aug 6, 2020 18:10
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:Absolutely. Sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and racist people exist in real life, so they should occasionally be reflected on film. It really is what you do with those characters. I remember arguing in the April thread that I wanted to see flawed queer characters on screen, and even rear end in a top hat queer people, and queer villains. It's so boring when we're just railroaded into the safe best friend role. Give me complexity even if it doesn't work out, even if it crashes and burns. Just don't reward the creepy gaslighting stalker, please. I thought about this a lot when gamers were angry and boycotting The Last of Us Part 2 because of the villain Abby, plus the inclusion of trans characters being victims to bigotry, bigots as villains, etc. Trans representation was brought up a lot in the discourse, and a lot of people were upset that trans characters were victimized, others were upset that a trans character could be a villain (not that Abby is trans; it was just part of the discourse), etc. Which made me think of what you said, because why can't a trans person be a villain in a story? It doesn't automatically mean trans characters are evil. (Note: I have not played The Last of Us Part 2) Anyway, unrelated to horror, you should watch Pedro Almodovar's All About My Mother sometime, because it's really unique in how it handles trans characters. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, and what you think of its representation. edit: And Sean Baker's Tangerine, which, unlike All About My Mother, actually had trans actors portraying the characters. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 18:21
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https://twitter.com/brockwilbur/status/1291208784539455494?s=19
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Aug 6, 2020 18:33
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TrixRabbi posted:Carpenter Line-Up (Not necessarily in order) Lmao this lineup. Good luck all other competitors.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:25
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 RESULTS!   Yuzna barely squeaks by, meaning he gets the honor of running into the buzzsaw that is Hooper's catalog.  Carpenter wins  Ridley Scott barely gets by with his worst vs Wingard's worst.Guys, I spent all morning moving boxes in 96 degree heat, and I gotta do some work to get the next bracket up, so it'll just have to be tomorrow AM, sorry everyone. Argue about how unfair this whole first round was for Wes Craven. The upcoming movies for round 2 have NOT BEEN SET and I won't be setting them until tomorrow AM, so don't stress.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:30
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Franchescanado posted:Anyway, unrelated to horror, you should watch Pedro Almodovar's All About My Mother sometime, because it's really unique in how it handles trans characters. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, and what you think of its representation. edit: And Sean Baker's Tangerine, which, unlike All About My Mother, actually had trans actors portraying the characters. I'll check them out! Just be forewarned, I've been told that I'm a bad trans because I don't like catgirls, or head pats, so these will be the opinions of someone who has been formally excommunicated.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:31
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:I'll check them out! Just be forewarned, I've been told that I'm a bad trans because I don't like catgirls, or head pats, so these will be the opinions of someone who has been formally excommunicated. Thats pretty lovely :/
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Aug 6, 2020 19:33
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:I'll check them out! Just be forewarned, I've been told that I'm a bad trans because I don't like catgirls, or head pats, so these will be the opinions of someone who has been formally excommunicated. I had no idea catgirls and head pats were part of trans culture, so my perspective is poo poo, then.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:36
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Any culture that is built on a bedrock of headpats and catgirls is a culture that must be expunged
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Aug 6, 2020 19:43
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MacheteZombie posted:Thats pretty lovely :/ Just a joke  but for real, I'm pretty out of touch with the culture of the kids coming up, but I can offer my ancient millennial guidance
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Aug 6, 2020 19:45
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Ridley Scott winning this round is a bummer imho I haven't made a lot of effortposts or anything in this thread but I am really, really enjoying this tournament and some of the movies that I am discovering through it so shout out to Shrecknet for running it and shoutout to all of the posters writing really thoughtful rationales on why they're voting one way or another every round
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Aug 6, 2020 19:46
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It's hard to be mad at Yuzna moving forward even if Kurosawa should have, but y'all really dropped the ball on Ridley Scott. Though if he winds up drawing Alien vs. John Carpenter before going down on Hannibal I'm laugh so loving hard edit: 1 in 3 chance Ridley Scott gets Alien next. However, if Carpenter gets Halloween or The Thing then it's gonna be a bloodbath. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 19:48
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TrixRabbi posted:It's hard to be mad at Yuzna moving forward even if Kurosawa should have, but y'all really dropped the ball on Ridley Scott. Though if he winds up drawing Alien vs. John Carpenter before going down on Hannibal I'm laugh so loving hard Alien VS Fog let's go
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Aug 6, 2020 19:52
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Ridley deserved to move on to the next round. We voted based on the matchup presented, it wasn't a referendum on whether Ridley is a horror director or not.Burkion posted:Alien VS Fog let's go No brainer, The Fog all day every day.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:53
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Seriously, Carpenter pulling The Fog or Christine and going down for Alien, only for Tobe Hooper to run over Hannibal/Prometheus would be the funniest outcome for this section of the tournament. However, if Ridley draws either of those two next he's toast.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:54
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