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OK I got thisquote:Antonia Bird
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Jun 8, 2020 23:18
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It feels bad that we've gone so many posts without Gordon, but I can't put From Beyond before Re-Animator, but I also still want to be on good terms with basebf555 so I need somebody else to make that post soon please.
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Jun 8, 2020 23:34
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Shrecknet posted:The order will be randomized, just post the best 6 Stuart Gordons. I read the rules three times and still managed to miss that, which seems like clear evidence that I'm too dumb for this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Stuart Gordon 1. Re-Animator 2. From Beyond 3. The Pit and the Pendulum 4. Dagon 5. Dolls 6. Castle Freak and one for Kvlt! since I know he's too scared to post in this thread: Rob Zombie 1. Lords of Salem 2. The Devil's Rejects 3. Halloween 2 4. 3 From Hell 5. House of 1000 Corpses 6. Halloween
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Jun 9, 2020 00:12
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Shrecknet posted:and since there are only 7, I'm awarding a special guest choice to Machete Zombie since he has to endure the bad news that Charles Naughton cannot be in this tournament. (Dario Argento) Justice for Bird! Also thanks for all the work you're doing to organize, watching this develop has been fun so far.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:11
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I was completely on board with this setup until Soavi had to go up against Raimi with loving Aquarius and now I am STAC Goating all over my apartment. Please at least make sure you all watch Cemetery Man in memoriam after he gets blown out.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:42
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I'm ok with Raimi winning, it's about the getting people to watch stuff part - Aquarius is fine but it would be a tragedy if that was someone's only experience with Soavi.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:47
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Fair point, I guess it's been at least a few years now of me and a couple others championing it every time we have one of our challenges, so it's probably got a lot more penetration with the regular crew than my sense of the world says it has. Good job, horror crew.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:48
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FWIW I have really really appreciated the slower schedule, it's hard for me to fit movies into my life right now and I still haven't seen Shirome or Cabin Fever 2. The franchise tournament schedule would have been flat out impossible if I hadn't done some relevant binges during past challenges.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:24
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Down to the wire, but I had a good movie day and got my votes in. The Masque of the Red Death vs. Shirome I think I enjoyed Shirome a lot more than I would have if reactions in this thread hadn't prepared me - concert DVD extra seems exactly right. There's really a surprising amount to think about here, for what it is. The basic premise is cute but also you can also 100% believe an idol group's manager would send them into harm's way like this, so there's a strange tension throughout the entire thing where it feels like it has to be pretty self-aware but also this is apparently a real idol group so do we believe their management is unusually good and would actually treat them better than this? Toss in the bit in the credits and suddenly you have to reconsider what you thought you knew about how in on things the group was throughout the movie. So what you end up with is something that kind of works as it presents itself, works even better as self-aware grim humor about the industry it exists in, and then maybe works even better than that as completely accidental and oblivious self-condemnation. Which I think is fairly impressive for a production that looks like someone just offered to buy Shiraishi's booze for the weekend if he'd throw together a copy of Noroi but with their talent slipped in. Bonus points for the professional ghost story teller, who I adored. As a "serious" film it suffers from sitting in an unfortunate middle-ground of ambition, where the run time stretches a bit long for the material they've actually got but they don't really find a way to let the girls be interesting characters. Maybe that's just what you get from working with an idol group, but if so the whole thing could have been done under an hour. Still, it does a lot with what is clearly very little. Masque also does a lot with very little, though, only you have to look much closer to see just how cheap the thing was. For the most part it really looks great, and Vincent Price chews enough scenery to distract from almost all the corners that are being cut in every shot. Prospero feels paper thin for how much time we spend with him and the script as a whole feels like it's got too much "look what a jerk he is" and not enough "look how scary the red death is" but it's good fun the entire way through. I especially enjoyed trying to figure out what was going on with Juliana in any given scene - bewildered waiting for something to validate her belief, play acting to try and impress Prospero, sincerely buying into this poo poo, being mauled by a falcon indoors, etc. Not a great movie by any stretch, but definitely better than the j-pop DVD extra. Faust vs. Three... Extremes: Cut This was the only one that surprised me - Faust is a real heavyweight not just in terms of historical importance, it's still a real pleasure to look at and Emil Jannings knocks it out of the park as Mephisto. If we're discounting historical importance, though, it falls short on most other fronts. Jannings is the only performance of any note, the story is a pointless mess, and pacing hadn't even been invented when it was filmed. Cut isn't a perfect film, but it is a very good one in all the ways Faust is good but also in most of the ways Faust comes up short. Fun premise, good to great performances all around, never stops moving, tons of fun camerawork, and it's over before you know it. It doesn't hurt that the other films in the anthology are also pretty good. Point to Park. Lost Highway vs. Cabin Fever 2: Spring Fever I did not have time for Cabin Fever 2. My conscience would have had me abstain from the vote but that wasn't an option, so oh well. Sorry Ti West, but if we're being honest there's no way your movie was going to be as good as Lost Highway. Army of Darkness vs. Stagefright Still a little sad about this one. Put Stagefright up against just about any slasher and a healthy chunk of giallo, it walks away a clear winner. But even though I probably don't love Army of Darkness nearly as much as I did when I was a teenager, there's a lot of good in it and it forever defined what I expect out of skeletons. Point to Raimi.
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Jun 19, 2020 11:01
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Shrecknet posted:...don't vote on 'historical importance'... I flat out do not believe that many of you watched Faust and genuinely liked it more than Cut 
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Jun 19, 2020 19:54
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Hello horror friends I missed this thread - the viewing schedule just got to be too much for me to keep up with, especially given how hard some stuff was to find. Going to try to jump back in now. Honestly if I were voting right now just on what I remember of the experiences, it's Christine over Alien easily. A big part of that is probably how much of a surprise Christine was when I finally saw it. You don't expect much from that premise but you give it a shot since so many people talk the thing up, then it just blows right past all your expectations and is insanely fun. I do need to watch Alien again, it's been a long time. I can believe it will pull ahead. The idea that it's an obvious easy win, though? I don't see it. Christine has too much to offer. 
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Aug 28, 2020 01:24
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He's on the right side of history so far, as long as he doesn't go to bat for the Babadook I'm good with it. edit: I mean he threw in for it, but no impassioned speech so far. Too lost a cause even for the champion of Half Human.
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Aug 29, 2020 22:45
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Finally got through all the new and re-watches I needed to do for this round, so here's a giant wall of text. Onibaba vs. The VVitch vs. A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors I thought this was going to be an easy win for Elm Street - my childhood memory said it's the one where the dream concept really starts to come together, and the first one with more than a single strong character, and the one where the kills really get creative. My memory was wrong. I mean there's definitely some good stuff in here, but it's a lot rougher around the edges than I thought and I think the one where the series really hit its stride and everything came together doesn't actually exist. They never figured it out beyond what the original achieved, and a bunch of this is rooted in the fixation on origins - all the stuff about his mom here was just a rushed and weirdly religious mess in a way that felt super out of place. It helped the movie early on to have some sort of non-dream mystery to it, but it didn't develop as a result of character actions and it didn't really pay off (other than with a sweet stop-motion skeleton, which I did love). There was a lot less to the kids than my memory claimed, too, but I think this was a strength - this thing moves fast. You get enough of the characters, and then some of them don't make it even though they all go in with the same plan and determination. So this is a movie with a good heart and some cool stuff, but it's not the masterpiece I remembered. The VVitch I enjoyed watching but have no interest in revisiting and it didn't leave any sort of impression - solid mid-tier horror. Onibaba surprised me. I was underwhelmed by Kuroneko relative to a bunch of other posters here and general reaction seems to be that people thought this was weaker, but it did a lot more for me. First off it's easily the best looking movie of the lot, and the field of tall grass is such a good setting that gives you tons of opportunities for cool framing and tons of stuff that's just fun to watch in motion. There are only two visual failures; fake rainstorms are always kind of sad, and they needed someone substantially less attractive for the mother role to make Hachi's attitude believable. It doesn't really resonate with me thematically, but part of that is what lets me call it a horror movie at all - the presentation feels like a morality tale with a completely alien morality. The surface level story is uninteresting to me personally (a starving situation collides with a loving situation), but there's a lot of open space left for you to speculate about what's going on with the central characters internally. The mother claims to feel dependent on her daughter in law for survival but her actions put the lie to that in short order. Everyone comes across as sometimes sympathetic and sometimes not. So I like all three of these, but Onibaba's the only one I feel interested in dwelling on or revisiting, so it gets my vote. Hereditary vs. The Babadook vs. Get Out A third of this is easy at least - The Babadook is the most actively unpleasant viewing experience I've had in ages, and not in the good way. There's a little bit of good in it, but not nearly enough good to make me put up with this many non-eaten children on screen for this much time. Then it has the gall to go for a completely saccharine ending. This must be how Kvlt! feels when people start talking about Flanagan. Get Out and Hereditary are both great. Solid emotional core, good performances, and really really funny. I have to give Get Out credit for being more inventive, but the win goes to Hereditary for superior craft. So much of it is just moment-to-moment perfect timing. Society vs. Salem's Lot Easy win for Society. I give a lot more credit than most people to the buildup, and I think it's unfortunate that so many people went into it having heard something about the end already. It works so much better if you don't have that kind of expectation, and can let yourself get sucked into the goofy characters and mystery a little. Which you can fairly call a weakness of the film, but it's not exactly up against strong competition here. Alien vs. Christine Even as an early and vocal booster of Christine here, I suspected that after the rewatch my vote would go to Alien. I've only seen it once, when I was barely old enough to retain memories of it, but I know how much love I have for Aliens and even Prometheus was great. But even remembering only 3-4 events from the movie was enough that nothing was really unexpected. I'm still tangling with how I feel about this. It's almost two hours long, not much happens, and it's not boring. There are a couple of absolutely perfect shots - particularly the fully grown alien uncoiling for the first time behind Brett and Ash's farewell. But there's also a bunch of stuff that really doesn't hold up well at all - the shot of the Alien when Dallas is in the air ducts looks terrible, everything about Mother suffers terribly from bad-guess sci-fi syndrome, and I spent like the last third of the movie wondering how Jones got into the locker. If you could somehow watch this for the first time without knowing anything about it, I believe it would be a great experience. It loses a lot from knowing so much in advance. What really sways me towards Christine is the character work. The only interactions in Alien that feel like they matter are with Ash - he's really the heart of the movie. Well, him and Jones. And he's a good heart and most of those scenes are great, but I don't feel like they match up to everything that's going on with Arnie and his friends and family. It's a secondary consideration, and a little unfair, but genre is also working against Alien here - Christine is very clearly set in a specific time, but the production itself doesn't feel dated. Alien does. If I'm watching these for the first time in a theater when they come out, Alien maybe wins. If I'm watching these both today, these little things are enough to push Christine into the lead.
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Sep 1, 2020 22:09
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Subgenres sounds like the best idea so far in terms of being both tractable and engaging, plus we'd get to have some knife fights about which subgenre gets to claim the edge cases. I like it.
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Sep 9, 2020 21:52
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Not my idea originally but that's roughly how I'd approach it - if we did it like directors it would be first-come first-served. So if a haunted house enthusiast was on the ball they could claim Alien right off the bat before any slasher or sci-fi fans got to it, and I think they'd only really need to provide an explanation if challenged for it.
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Sep 9, 2020 22:40
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BisonDollah posted:The sub-genres switch around every week with discussions ranging from which Soundtrack is the MOST GIALLO to who is the best leading lady in SLASHERS the next week. I guess it's just figuring which subgenres will be included and how many that would take a lot of figuring out. I think the original pitch was a more direct analogue to what we're doing now - not what's the best stuff within a subgenre, but which subgenre is best? So you'd be assembling all your favorite werewolf movies to face off against the mummies with a random pick of the six representatives for each as the object of voting.
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Sep 9, 2020 23:58
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Same. I mean I don't have to have to since I have seen it in the distant past and there's no way I like Rebecca more than even those hazy memories, but I should and I want to. I also feel like I want to give Special Effects a shot even though it has gently caress-all chance against Lair.
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Sep 10, 2020 01:26
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There are movies that would have a chance against Lair, but Cohen's not the man behind any of them and low-tier Cohen definitely isn't getting the job done.
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Sep 10, 2020 05:53
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I didn't want to vote against Gordon ever but this might be the matchup that does it. On the other hand I haven't seen Dolls yet, and it's Gordon so there's like a 100% chance it's a way more interesting movie than I always assumed when I walked by the box.
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Sep 10, 2020 23:01
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I haven't seen the version with Steve Martin so grain of salt, but that's a really surprising take to me. On a plot/character level you can say the reporter is there to make Emiko curious about what he's working on - that wasn't the point of her visit, after all, and it's important to the movie that she doesn't actually get to have the conversation with Serizawa that she went there to have. Serizawa is the heart of this movie so the idea that you're just waiting around for Godzilla to show up seems odd. Really, though, I think the reporter is there to help emphasize Serizawa's explicit objection - people are already actively interested in weaponizing what he's doing even though he has presumably shared only a tiny portion of it with other scientists. About the worst thing I could say for the movie is that much of its effectiveness relies on you knowing things about the real world and actual history for it to have impact. If you have no idea what radiation is or that two nuclear weapons were dropped on Japan then sure waving a geiger counter over a kid in the hospital doesn't mean much, and all the fire in Godzilla's wake is just typical monster-smash-city stuff. But all art relies on you knowing at least something about the world, and with just a tiny bit of context it's a pretty big deal that the destruction here is all about fire and radiation. That was by far the biggest surprise to me, having grown up on later Godzilla movies - here his breath just looks like breath and it sets everything on fire, which given the historical context is pretty much the single change that makes me call this one a horror movie while subsequent entries where he instead spits out lasers that make things explode are very clearly not.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:40
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It's a great post but honestly I'm surprised you spent so much of it on Godzilla himself just as I'm surprised that Class3 felt like the characters were muddled. There were so many fantastic little human moments; Yamane asking his daughter to turn off the light on her way out and basically everything about Serizawa. Serizawa is the coolest scientist character I've seen in ages. There's a fair argument that "love triangle" is kind of a lazy way to add drama to the human story and that some of the dialogue about Serizawa's motivations is too direct, but I thought it all worked well and kept things moving briskly. To really get into the ethics of discovery and the problems that come with making it known that a thing is possible would require more extended dialogue than the movie had to spare. Besides which, at the point the movie kicks off it's too late for purpose to matter much - we're all about consequence now. And all that stuff was great and tragic in a way that I don't think any of the subsequent movies even tried to match. Yamane's character is a one-line joke in a modern monster movie. Serizawa's character is an un-named extra. That's sad. e: I think I like the original line more, too. "Then what do we do about the horror before us now?" I can see a case for either, but that one does it better for me. Irony.or.Death fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 00:22
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Finished off this round's viewing with a double feature of Day of the Dead and The Blob. A good evening, but also the only two real match-ups here. Hannibal is, I think, unfairly maligned. It only really sucks when you consider the talent involved and form expectations; if it were a James Wan movie I would have been pleasantly surprised. Necronomicon doesn't suck, though, so that's an easy win. Dolls is better than you'd expect from everything other than Gordon's involvement, and not as good as I'd expect from Gordon. There's just not enough going on for it to be real competition with Ichi. The Blob vs. Hereditary is almost a tough one for me. The Blob is a giant sprawling mess with half a dozen too few or too many passes on the script; I can't tell which from scene to scene. In terms of craft Hereditary completely blows it out of the water, and I was extremely let-down by both the quantity and quality of dead children, since I guess we're spoilering that in here. But it has so much going on and so many goopy people melting and almost half the jokes land. Hereditary is just much too small-scale and restrained to compete for my affection, even though it's a better movie in almost every way; especially the bit in spoiler tags above. It loses out on the important metrics of goopy people melting, cool monsters, and 80sosity. I like The Host a lot and it deserves more attention than it can get in this matchup. Tough break. Day really surprised me - I'd put off watching it for ages because I heard so many middling to negative reactions to it, and "military bunker" just sounded like a boring setting for a zombie movie. That was mostly wrong and I think there's a real chance I like it more than Dawn. It will take another viewing of each to figure that out. That said, while it's a great movie it isn't a masterpiece. I think it was a mistake to have a single standout performance like Dr. Logan. Once he dies, you know that for the rest of the movie nobody is going to try to do anything or have any interesting ideas - it's all over but the screaming. The movie insists on going through the motions anyway. This is thematically appropriate, but kind of boring. A couple of the other performances are decent to good, but I think the script failed them. Rhodes delivers the few good lines he gets very well, but most of his dialogue feels like a placeholder and he doesn't really do much as a character. The last bits with him and Bub are really great, though, as he starts shambling. Godzilla on the other hand isn't just great, it's a masterpiece. Clear winner here despite extremely strong competition.
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Sep 17, 2020 10:27
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Faust vs. Dream Warriors I was colder on Dream Warriors than I expected after I rewatched it the first time it was up in this tournament, but it doesn't suck. Faust sucks. There's like 10% of a fun movie in here and I'm glad Yuzna got a chance to film a big satanic ritual, but it's pretty clear that the 90s comic book he was stuck with for source material was bad. I'm extremely annoyed with this because I wish exile and shame upon all the duos directors at this point, and both of these movies would lose to literally anything else in this round, but I can't vote for Faust. Ugh. Blade II vs. The Devils Rough draw for GDT. Blade II is perfectly fine but nothing that will stick with me. He really needed something not based on a comic book to have a shot here. One of the few bad things I could say about The Devils is that Ken Russel's style might start to feel a little too familiar with this many of his movies in close proximity, but it's a style I mostly like and all of the movies are really good so I personally don't mind it. Audition vs. The Gas Man The Human Vapor is a mashup of The Invisible Man and Phantom of the Opera that kind of works some of the time, but mostly doesn't. A few good ideas, and a climax that would be fantastic in a better movie. Unfortunately it fails to land here because none of the characters involved have been developed into anything interesting. The whole thing is especially strange because most of what it does wrong, Godzilla did right - too much time wasted on explaining backstory that doesn't matter at all, not nearly enough on the characters or pushing the premise somewhere beyond the obvious. It makes me wonder whether he was too chained to a bad script or phoning it in or what. This gets the dubious distinction of being the tournament movie I'd most like to see remade, and the first name that popped into my head to handle that is Miike (thanks in large part to the killer theater segments in Over Your Dead Body), which is a pretty clear sign of how my vote is going this round even before we consider that Audition is one of his best. I wish I could vote for this over Faust or Dream Warriors, but I can't, so I am left with a sad farewell to Honda. I haven't cleared time for Inland Empire yet so I don't know how the David-off is going to go, but Videodrome will be tough to beat.
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Sep 20, 2020 21:04
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Yesterdays Piss posted:...Happiness of the Katakuris is better than y'all are giving it credit for... What the gently caress has someone been poo poo-talking Happiness? All horror musicals deserve love, especially Happiness.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:25
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The Davidoff So obviously I'd take either of these over 99% of what's in the running and I think the virtues of both are pretty apparent and well-covered, so it comes down to which one resonates with you more. For me that's Videodrome and Cronenberg in general. Lynch is a humanist and his movies, especially Inland Empire, are intimately concerned with the feelings and experiences of their characters. And I think that's cool and I enjoy the time I spend with them, but it doesn't leave me with much after the fact; I don't know what there really is to learn from a deep dive on an individual beyond that people are varied and weird. Cronenberg and Videodrome, on the other hand, are a little more cynical and all society-focused. That's where my head is at these days and it feels more important to me - the world is small, and we're all so densely interconnected that a lot of things which might sound good in a vacuum cannot work in the world we have to deal with today. And not that I think this is particularly a failing of Lynch, but I think it's why small character-focused stuff doesn't really hit me. And why Videodrome works so well - it's full of that kind of thought and large-scale consequence.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:37
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Absolutely blown away that Faust beat Dream Warriors. It's maybe not the worst film in the tournament but it's close. Anyway this is a super boring one-sided round for me; as much as I hate the repeats and as much as I love Cronenberg, Rabid has nothing on Lair and Yuzna can't touch the Katakuris with anything on his roster short of Bride. And even that would be tough for him.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:20
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Full disclosure: I don't think Happiness is very good without a whole bunch of contextual considerations that have been raised by other posters here, but it was the second Miike movie I ever watched (following Audition as an introduction), and that whiplash really impressed me and catapulted him to the top of my interest list. No other director in history comes close to matching his productivity and he brings 100% of something to every project he touches, across every genre and theme imaginable. So I can't really separate my appreciation of it from the way I experienced it and the incredible breadth of work it helped introduce me to. I also think what YP mentioned about it working as an anti-musical is a big part of what appeals to me - what's fun about the musical numbers is that they're just an alternative way to express some stuff rather than being the entire point of the movie. I'll take that with forgettable music over forgettable everything else with songs people find catchier. I think I also don't hate RotLD3 as much as I feel like I do. If I watch it again in five years I might like it. But Yuzna doesn't belong in this round and I can't even pretend I'm judging this movie on its own merits. Faust sucked hard enough to drag everything associated with it down. I think I'd vote for Yakuza over Bride right now, so the actual matchup we've got isn't even a contest.
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Sep 29, 2020 04:09
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I don't think I know how I'm voting on any of these, and As The Gods Will is the only one I (maybe) haven't seen before.
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Oct 1, 2020 19:21
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:I remember seeing the trailer and it's definitely not a film you'd forget. It contains a Daruma doll making the heads of children explode. That's what's messing with me - I swear I remember that bit, but I couldn't really tell you anything other than "kids trapped in a classroom under threat of death" and that just makes me wonder if I only saw the trailer and am conflating it with Eko Eko Azarek.
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Oct 1, 2020 21:14
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Franchescanado posted:7 out of 12 of your own ratings are less than 3 stars. Yeah but one of them is Ravenous so it's pretty much a lock
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Oct 5, 2020 22:53
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With As the Gods Will done, I'm through the full set for this round. As the Gods Will vs. The Devils This isn't my favorite of Russel's, but it's enough to beat a lazy manga adaptation (detailed thoughts over in the Challenge thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3941760&pagenumber=27#post508697922). Gods could have been something special with a better script and some really vicious editing, but what we actually got has no interesting characters and is almost two hours long solely because it's full of the tedious poo poo and bad pacing low budget anime wallows in to pad runtime without paying to draw something new. And I'm mad at it for making me say so many mean things about a movie where a man's sincere love of parsley becomes a serious point of interpersonal conflict under the watchful gaze of a snowboarding polar bear, but here we are. Over Your Dead Body vs. Gothic Gothic was my first Ken Russel and in many ways is still my favorite. Unfortunately I agree with Tarnop - Percy is by far the weakest link and we spend way too much time with him. Over Your Dead Body is a much less interesting story, to me, but so is drat near everything. As a movie, it's miles ahead - the shots of the revolving set alone make it an all time great in my book. This one is a tough matchup but point to Miike. Ichi the Killer vs. Altered States This is by far the toughest one for me to decide. What I'd call mid-tier work from both directors, but also both movies that mean more to me than they should on quality because of life circumstances when I first saw them. I think I have to give the nod to Russel - fewer spots that drag on a rewatch and wilder ideas narrowly edge out Tadanobu Asano's performance as Kakihara. I can't say I'm happy giving the balance of my votes to Russel - as much as I love him, I feel like the small body of qualifying work should be more of a handicap and Miike's got half a dozen movies not even in the tournament that could have taken any of these, but that's the game we're playing. Consistency is king here, and for good or bad you have to give consistent to Russel.
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Oct 6, 2020 21:41
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We don't need to hold a vote we all know his best is Lair. I'm mostly comfortable with this outcome, but I do not understand the relative lack of love for Over Your Dead Body. It could just be a short film containing the shots of the set with no story at all and it would be better than most movies, but then the story is also good and cool!
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Oct 8, 2020 20:10
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I can respect that; Gothic is very much a film where I love the idea more than the execution and the execution is still pretty good. STAC, if you're ever up for it I'd suggest watching some version of Tokaido Yotsuya Kaidan before you give OYDB a rewatch - being familiar with the play they're staging probably helps. Nobuo Nakagawa's 1959 is the one I was pointed to when I went down this rabbit hole and I'll vouch for it as worth your time on its own merits in addition to informing a bunch of other Japanese stuff.
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Oct 8, 2020 21:18
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