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disjoe
Feb 18, 2011


I liked the dumb little haikus

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cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea
I found something worse than the haikus - the spirit of yarikawas vengeance quest.
Find the white smoke. Find the white smoke again. Find the white smoke again. Chase the guy - oh he got away. Find the white smoke again. It's my fourth loving time looking for it and I've spent 15 minutes running around in the circle I can only see when I pause and still haven't found it.

E: I can't even leave and do something else. I tried to leave and got a stay in tale area countdown. I cannot do anything else in the game until I find the white smoke.


E2: ok I think it's bugged. I just followed a walkthrough and went to every location it showed and there's nothing happening. I can't run out of the area, if I save, quit, reload, I'm still stuck in the middle of this inescapable quest.

cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Sep 25, 2021

Shiroc
May 16, 2009

Sorry I'm late
My problem with the haikus was that occasionally the next set of lines didn't really work with what I picked for the one preceding it. I got a couple of headbands I liked from early ones so I just kept doing it even if they turned into nonsense at times.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
I mean, they are traditional haiku in that they are small, 17 syllable poems with a strict emphasis on nature and metaphor, that’s what many, if not most haiku typically sound like.

-source: I lived in Japan right before I went on to teach poetry. The “Haiku” unit was always the easiest lesson of the semester.

In general I was sort of impressed by how they essentially wrote 3x3x3 as many haiku as you encounter in the game because they all sort of work together.

I think the fox tree quests were stupid, that always felt like padding to me.

isk
Oct 3, 2007

You don't want me owing you

cubicle gangster posted:

It's loving unbearable. I've done 2 while writing this post. I understand how a game with a budget like this ends up without subtext in it's narrative, but I don't understand how it ends up with such a poo poo side quest at this kind of scale.

I don't even know how to communicate how I feel about it. If you can't get a poet, cut it from the game, I don't understand why you'd keep it in.

Without knowing the exact details of SP's dev cycle, I've been in similar gamedev positions where a good idea in pre-production doesn't work out in execution, but it can't be cleanly excised due to time / dependencies / expectations from the publisher or stakeholder. For the haiku themselves, there are multiple pieces of work that would either be wasted or would need to be transferred to a different system:

- The cutscene art
- The location art (the mats, etc.)
- The map icons
- The scripts telling the golden birds to fly to the haiku locations
- The narration, music, and sound effects
- The item rewards
- Potentially others I'm forgetting or unaware of from a user perspective

Now, some of these might be easy to remove or transfer, but a) I wouldn't know for sure until I got into the codebase, and b) I'd still want to test the hell out of the results because unexpected bugs at the 11th hour are the worst. The latter leads to things like Cyberpunk 2077, specifically the lovely car system and the annoying notifs from district bosses.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

McCracAttack posted:

Yeah, overall I still feel like the lightning storms were too heavy handed since most people's reactions are, "WTF is up with the weather in this game?" rather than feeling the mood.

I loving loved it but it was annoying if the lounge room was too sunny sometimes.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

I was harsh on the haikus but that was just my most recent reaction from when I was in map icon clean-up mode doing a bunch of them in a row. When I was coming across them naturally in the game they were fine. Still don't really care about the actual poetry but the little sequence of... vignettes? of the landscape were cool.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Instead of haikus I would've rather listened Jin's monologue about his past life or whatever. I really liked those moments in Iki dlc.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea

Bust Rodd posted:

In general I was sort of impressed by how they essentially wrote 3x3x3 as many haiku as you encounter in the game because they all sort of work together.

But I think this is the issue I have with them. By having to make all of them work with each other, they've ended up toothless. They're so unspecific and meaningless.
Surely the haikus you studied and taught in Japan were actually good?

Isk - I appreciate what you're getting at, but with that I think the better solution would have been to replace them with cutscenes and get a poet to write them well.
Kill the interactivity/ability to choose and everything gets solved.

isk
Oct 3, 2007

You don't want me owing you

cubicle gangster posted:

Isk - I appreciate what you're getting at, but with that I think the better solution would have been to replace them with cutscenes and get a poet to write them well.
Kill the interactivity/ability to choose and everything gets solved.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I've got criticisms as well. I don't like the transitions between the lines. The cadence and emphasis could be tweaked to where the second stanza tilts up in the vocal register while the third brings it back down. That said, this is an extremely Western approach off the top of one guy's head, and I'm at home on my weekend in super comfortable clothing.

Converting the haiku bits into straight cutscenes does solve the dissonance between lines, but it does introduce dissonance between other POIs, all of which have at least some player input (e.g. onsen have an A/B choice, shrines of valor have an item interaction, fox dens have light navigation, etc.). Might be an opportunity to consolidate haiku and shrines so there aren't two technically-different-but-functionally-similar POIs, but that leads to a problem by requiring more haiku (which would impact cinematics' ability to deliver on their existing commitments) or by reducing their quantity/quality (with leads to an uneven experience, which is the problem trying to be solved).

hazardousmouse
Dec 17, 2010
yeah that coulda worked well. A little cutscene of Jin pulling out ink and brush then it does the same recitation with pretty visuals but the poem actually has cohesion. but then players would complain at not having a player influenced segment and people would just walk away during it

DelphiAegis
Jun 21, 2010

hazardousmouse posted:

yeah that coulda worked well. A little cutscene of Jin pulling out ink and brush then it does the same recitation with pretty visuals but the poem actually has cohesion. but then players would complain at not having a player influenced segment and people would just walk away during it

It'd be neat if I could write a cool Japanese character or something instead of choose one of three lines three times.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003

i very much prefer straw hats and helmets over headbands so i just dont feel the need to bother with most of the haikus but i do like how they frame the landscape

i also like the hot springs and that you are meant to sit and reflect for a bit. its kind of cheesy but its also works, i like these kind of contemplative pauses in an action game even if its done in a kind of superficial way. also jin has a great rear end

isk
Oct 3, 2007

You don't want me owing you

Earwicker posted:

i very much prefer straw hats and helmets over headbands so i just dont feel the need to bother with most of the haikus but i do like how they frame the landscape

i also like the hot springs and that you are meant to sit and reflect for a bit. its kind of cheesy but its also works, i like these kind of contemplative pauses in an action game even if its done in a kind of superficial way. also jin has a great rear end

Pacing's essential. It's a reason why I could play the Uncharted games for long stretches

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea

DelphiAegis posted:

It'd be neat if I could write a cool Japanese character or something instead of choose one of three lines three times.

Thats a great solution - motion controller ink/brush moment during the haiku.

I really like the hot springs, they land well.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Also, just as someone who taught poetry for a living, the idea that you could simply "hire a poet" and everyone would magically like the Haiku when they didn't before is kind of funny to me. You would need to have a world-renowned grandmaster of the art of lyricism to actually leave that much of an impact on the art form. Even trained classical Japanese historians would make cute little ditties like

Whispering sunrise
breath hangs slowly in the air
a frog eats a bee

also, in the more classically examined or "cerebral" haiku, the final line is supposed to be an excessively layered nature metaphor that supposedly unlocks the secret hidden subtext of the piece, and you can sort of see how some of the poems in Sushi Ghost definitely have some of those, but it's actually quite exhausting and complicated to wax poetic about driftwood or a fox den for 4 hours until you figure out how to communicate a mother losing her child or a father's love for his family using only a handful of sounds about sand or leaves.

hazardousmouse
Dec 17, 2010
Jin's also distinctly an amateur poet so "my haiku about the impermanence of life through flowing water is a masterpiece" tracks

wash bucket
Feb 21, 2006

Finally beat this game last night. That's the most fun I've had with a video game in years. I had a great time. Also, the final boss fight was so good and paid off so well it sort of brute-forced me past my quibbles with the plot.

Anything I should check out in the post game? I've already done all of the "Tales of Tsushima" missions according to the achievement I got and I've already liberated all the mongol camps on the island. Or is it time to head to DLC island?

wash bucket fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Sep 27, 2021

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

I loved doing the haikus and the hot springs, my only complaint is it would sometimes be a bit of an issue getting a second verse that jived with the first one, like that one poster earlier said, and I would have really loved if they could be tied to something other than headbands, because I exclusively ran around with the genbu hat

Noxin of Shame
Jul 25, 2005

:allears: Our Dan :allears:
It's not gone unnoticed that the only time my partner looks at the tv when I'm playing, just so happens to be when Jin steps into the hot springs.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea
I just did everything that I needed to get the plat, but I was still missing one trophy... Gathering storm.
Apparently the first one you get in the prologue. 98% of players have it.

Just played through the entire prologue AGAIN and it still didn't pop. I never go for plats, this will be my first where I had to keep playing after the story to get it.
Actually pretty annoyed about it. I know it doesn't mean anything but the first I actually set out to get a plat and a dumb bug blocks me after 85 hours.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

McCracAttack posted:

Finally beat this game last night. That's the most fun I've had with a video game in years. I had a great time. Also, the final boss fight was so good and payed off so well it sort of brute-forced me past my quibbles with the plot.

Anything I should check out in the post game? I've already done all of the "Tales a Tsushima" missions according to the achievement I got and I've already liberated all the mongol camps on the island. Or is it time to head to DLC island?

I'm glad you enjoyed it! It's a genuinely fun game to play. Definitely hit DLC island now for more great battles and some fun stories. It's not groundbreaking stuff plot wise but it's more tsushima action and samurai pastiche. You'll also have new fun gear for NG+!

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



Noxin of Shame posted:

It's not gone unnoticed that the only time my partner looks at the tv when I'm playing, just so happens to be when Jin steps into the hot springs.

To be fair, it's a really fine rear end.

Seedge
Jun 15, 2009
Hey, buddy. :glomp:



https://twitter.com/CJSeedge/status/1442249440186806282?s=19

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way


iyo eyes are the worst

Seedge
Jun 15, 2009
Hey, buddy. :glomp:



This was my first ever encounter with one...

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

Was excited to get a second Assassination charm because it took me long enough to get just one but it was Cursed. I didn't realize that when you purify a cursed item it doesn't turn into a regular version, though. It turns into a token to improve a Mastered piece of gear. Still helpful but I was kind of bummed.

FLIPSIXTHREEHOLE
Dec 30, 2010

Recently got the PS5 (my first console since the 00s) and picked this up last week because it looked extremely up my alley. Was doing the Komatsu forge defense mission last night, wiped out all the waves, doing the cool sprinting slash on all the archers, but get a little too far from Yuna. Think I get them all, and I look behind me and see a Mongol leader is beating up on my girl. I sprint 50 feet, shoulder charge him off a small cliff into a pond below (unintentionally) - he's down to 50% health. Game immediately gives the prompt to do diving slash from above - takes him down to a sliver. I do the Stone Stance thrust to finish him off as thunder cracks and the rain starts pouring down . Game Good.

Does the game last long enough to eventually get all the skill tree perks, or do I actually have to be pretty intentional with my technique selections?

wash bucket
Feb 21, 2006

FLIPSIXTHREEHOLE posted:

Does the game last long enough to eventually get all the skill tree perks, or do I actually have to be pretty intentional with my technique selections?

You can max the entire tree. You just might have to deliberately seek out missions that reward you with skill points for the last handful.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

FLIPSIXTHREEHOLE posted:

Recently got the PS5 (my first console since the 00s) and picked this up last week because it looked extremely up my alley. Was doing the Komatsu forge defense mission last night, wiped out all the waves, doing the cool sprinting slash on all the archers, but get a little too far from Yuna. Think I get them all, and I look behind me and see a Mongol leader is beating up on my girl. I sprint 50 feet, shoulder charge him off a small cliff into a pond below (unintentionally) - he's down to 50% health. Game immediately gives the prompt to do diving slash from above - takes him down to a sliver. I do the Stone Stance thrust to finish him off as thunder cracks and the rain starts pouring down . Game Good.

Does the game last long enough to eventually get all the skill tree perks, or do I actually have to be pretty intentional with my technique selections?

Yep you can max all points and still have plenty to do afterwards.

Also I started Iki island with max skills and it didn't take long at all to fill in the small handful of new expansion skills to which you get access, too.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
I recently got the Wrath of Sarugami katana in Legends and managed to roll Parry Window, Counter Damage and Intimidating Parry perks. Then I rolled 19.8% counter damage to one of my samurai charms.

It's pretty fun parrying stuff in Survival and everything explodes around you. The 3 hit combo is enough to kill human enemies so you get 50 health back for every parry kill.

Hopper
Dec 28, 2004

BOOING! BOOING!
Grimey Drawer
I have to get back into Legends, I really like it but the constant bugging out of gold survival at the second to last/last wave annoyed me to no end.

Is that fixed? I remember enemies just not spawning or standing there invincible.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

Hopper posted:

I have to get back into Legends, I really like it but the constant bugging out of gold survival at the second to last/last wave annoyed me to no end.

Is that fixed? I remember enemies just not spawning or standing there invincible.

Won't embed since it's a Short I guess but yeah, this was a couple days ago:

https://youtube.com/shorts/z5pKfVYK_fo?feature=share

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

New Nightmare stuff starts in 20 minutes. Hoping for no hwachas in Nightmare Survival this week :pray:

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

Lobok posted:

New Nightmare stuff starts in 20 minutes. Hoping for no hwachas in Nightmare Survival this week :pray:

If it's on a rotation, it should be disciples of iyo this week.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

hiddenriverninja posted:

If it's on a rotation, it should be disciples of iyo this week.

How does that work? Is there one with every spawn of enemies?

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Lobok posted:

How does that work? Is there one with every spawn of enemies?

I think they spawn on a separate timer which can also happen between waves. The spawn points are fixed and they don't change so its pretty easy tbh.

hazardousmouse
Dec 17, 2010
So I thought the thread might be on to something regarding the English lipsynching vs Japanese dialogue but holy poo poo the english voice acting is terrible. Kenji in particular, wtf was that person's direction?

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

I've thought about changing the language just for Legends because Gyozen says the same things over and over and maybe if I can't understand what he's saying it'll be less annoying.

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History Comes Inside!
Nov 20, 2004




The English voice acting is actually the only good instance of “Japan-set game with an English voice option” ever produced, sorry.

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