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Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



I hope you got your tickets ready, because this thread is taking off and if you are not inside it you are freezing to death surrounded by shitposts.




Snowpiercer is a post-apocalyptic thriller set aboard the titular Snowpiercer. In order to fight global warming humanity decided to realease some sort of cooling agent, but it was too much and everything froze over. A billionaire decided to build a train track going around the world and put all his billonaire buddies aboard it to survive until Earth became inhabitable again.

The proles couldn't do the polite thing and die quietly, so as the train was leaving the station they attacked it and a few managed to board.

It's now about 6 years after that. The proles live on the last few wagons, surviving on the scraps they get from the upper class cars, and planning pointless revolutions while delaying their deaths. The rich meanwhile complain about having to share the sauna with impolite royalty. So yeah, c can see where the theme of this thing is going.

Don't get fooled by some reviewrs saying this is a police procedural or a mystery show. The plot gets kickstarted by a murder, but that's it, so does the plot of Game of Thrones or Twin Peaks. This show is about exploring class conflict, what it takes to survive and that kind of thing.

It stars Daveed Diggs as Andre Layton a former detective on the tail of the train that gets called out of retirement to solve a murder that happened uptrain. He'll have to balance doing his job with helping the rebellion he was planning while still on the back of the train.

Jennifer Conelly as Melanie Cavill, as the person basically in charge of the train. She decides to call Andre to solve the crime. She is also the only person aboard the train to interact with Mr. Wilford, the mysterious billionaire that created the train.

It's Sundays on TNT if you are on the US and Mondays on Netflix if you are anywhere else.

We are on episode 4 out of 10 and so far it has delivered. The table is set, characters have their motivation and everything is about to get really interesting.

(also, I can't figure out how to post images, so sorry for this terrible OP, I really think the show deserves someone to try to make a thread though)

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Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Show is okay. I put it on while I paint Warhammer. I'm interested in seeing if they do a time jump after the last episodes ending with the conclusion of the murder investigation

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


We gonna update that thread title given the inevitable destruction of a bunch of train cars before season's end?

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Open Source Idiom posted:

We gonna update that thread title given the inevitable destruction of a bunch of train cars before season's end?

I see you've read the upcoming episode titles as well. I kind of regret doing it

If anything I'm going to update it to reflect the 3 or 4 pages of posts we actually get before the season ends.


Professor Shark posted:

Show is okay. I put it on while I paint Warhammer. I'm interested in seeing if they do a time jump after the last episodes ending with the conclusion of the murder investigation

Yeah, I thought it was an interesting finish for episode 4, which allows the rest of the season to go in an interesting direction.

lurker2006
Jul 30, 2019


Any differences from the film that particularly strike you, assuming you've seen it?

lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 14, 2020

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


lurker2006 posted:

Any differences from the film that particularly strike you, assuming you've seen it?

The TV version is a lot less cult-y. There's an almost hypnotic quality to the way the front end passengers worship Wilfred, like the little song sequence with the schoolkids. There's no obvious indoctrination going on -- though if this is the destined path for this show, then I've miscalculated how dark they plan on making it, There's also not as pronounced a sense of magical realism: Mrs. Wilfred talks so often about methane cycles that you can never believe that her engine runs on child sacrifices.

There's a stronger art deco / pre-war Germany vibe to this version, with a free-love hippie commune car, and a Kit Kat Club to boot.

The other thing that strikes me about this adaptation is that, knowing how Alison Wright's character ends up in the film, I'm interested in if/how the show's version of the character is going to go. It adds an extra layer of tension to a lot of their scenes.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

In the films, they said that 1 revolution = 1 year, and they mention in this episode that they've had like 19 revolutions in 7 years.

Things seem to be deteriorating pretty fast in the train, with two major rebellions brewing.

Timespy
Jul 6, 2013

No bond but to do just ones



If you pause during the intro sequence, it says that one revolution is 133 days, and you can even see the route listed:

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

Fun show, surprised there wasn't already a thread on it. Glad it seems it isn't going full police procedural!

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Timespy posted:

If you pause during the intro sequence, it says that one revolution is 133 days, and you can even see the route listed:


Nice catch. It still a ridiculous concept though. Seriously, how is this whole thing better than a vault? What's the benefit of going round and round? I guess in a vautl your ventilation could get blocked and then you are hosed, but that's a singular failure point. here you have tracks across half the world, a single strong avalanche everywhere ruins it.

Good episode 5. They solved the Layton thing earlier than I expected. I hope the blonde guard plot gets solved just as quick. She seems like a prime candidate to betray the upper classes and join the revolution.

The Folgers are just despicable, so I guess the actors are doing a good job.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Timespy posted:

If you pause during the intro sequence, it says that one revolution is 133 days, and you can even see the route listed:

I haven't watched the latest episode and am dodging posts to say thank you for finding this. I wonder if they did some math to figure this out, meaning that they discovered the "1 year per lap" plot point of the comic/movie was way too slow for a train that's supposed to survive an ice age.

Mr. Nemo posted:

Nice catch. It still a ridiculous concept though. Seriously, how is this whole thing better than a vault? What's the benefit of going round and round? I guess in a vautl your ventilation could get blocked and then you are hosed, but that's a singular failure point. here you have tracks across half the world, a single strong avalanche everywhere ruins it.
The engine is supposed to be a massive power plant which, I think, runs like a perpetual motion machine that requires the forward drive of the entire train. The momentum that allows it to plow through massive chunks of ice (which gives the train its name but hasn't been in the show yet) is what sticks it to the track. It's not necessarily a safer bet than the bunkers (which do exist as they have been mentioned by this show already) but it was one that lets you still see the world, indulge in a fully functioning ecosystem, allow easily segmented security, and still oppress people!

But the actual answer to this question is that the train's momentum is a metaphor for the momentum of a class based society.

Edit: Oh, hey, they showed it plowing through massive chunks of ice this episode! Neat!

Um. So yeah... LJ's a straight psychopath. Nice.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jun 16, 2020

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


mhmm yummy eyeball mhmm yumm

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Mr. Nemo posted:

Nice catch. It still a ridiculous concept though. Seriously, how is this whole thing better than a vault? What's the benefit of going round and round? I guess in a vautl your ventilation could get blocked and then you are hosed, but that's a singular failure point. here you have tracks across half the world, a single strong avalanche everywhere ruins it.


A main plot point is that their speed generates power, law of conservation of energy be damned. Slowing down for safety means shutting off lights in third.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



DaveKap posted:

The engine is supposed to be a massive power plant which, I think, runs like a perpetual motion machine that requires the forward drive of the entire train. The momentum that allows it to plow through massive chunks of ice (which gives the train its name but hasn't been in the show yet) is what sticks it to the track. It's not necessarily a safer bet than the bunkers (which do exist as they have been mentioned by this show already) but it was one that lets you still see the world, indulge in a fully functioning ecosystem, allow easily segmented security, and still oppress people!

The Walrus posted:

A main plot point is that their speed generates power, law of conservation of energy be damned. Slowing down for safety means shutting off lights in third.



Once again,sorry to be pedantic on the magic train show, but I need to create content for the thread. Wouldn't a bunker that draws power from underground heat be much more efficient? That seems like less risky than driving around the world.

I wonder if the map posted aboves known earthquake zones, you'd most like wouldn't want to build tracks there. Chile, Japan, USA west coast.


What do you all think about "the 400" mentioned last episode? I think the Tailie woman saw some of the children they chose from the Tail in the Drawers. I imagine they are picking people to rebuild society once the thawing start. And as it's probably a long time from now they freeze them. I'm guessnig the drawers is more "Cryogenic stasis" than "induced coma", otherwise this theroy makes no sense.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Yep. With the collapse of the Bee Colony, and the extinction of beef, I'm pretty sure that Snow Piercer is not going to be sustainable for much longer.

The list will probably be misinterpreted as people that Melanie wants culled to preserve resources, but it'll end up being a list of people who gets to survive to repopulate in a post-thaw world.
A few essential staff will survive, and the rest will have to be purged.

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002





Once again,sorry to be pedantic on the magic train show, but I need to create content for the thread. Wouldn't a bunker that draws power from underground heat be much more efficient? That seems like less risky than driving around the world.

I wonder if the map posted aboves known earthquake zones, you'd most like wouldn't want to build tracks there. Chile, Japan, USA west coast.


What do you all think about "the 400" mentioned last episode? I think the Tailie woman saw some of the children they chose from the Tail in the Drawers. I imagine they are picking people to rebuild society once the thawing start. And as it's probably a long time from now they freeze them. I'm guessnig the drawers is more "Cryogenic stasis" than "induced coma", otherwise this theroy makes no sense.
[/quote]



Of course it would be, it's a train that produces power to move forward instead of the opposite, it's a preposterous idea. But in the world fiction I imagine what basically happened is people did use bunkers but then it got SO fuckin cold that they hadn't gone deep enough and the cooling effect of the surface outmatched their ability to harness geothermal heat.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



Has anyone read the Snowpiercer comic? It's from like 1982 and I always thought it was strange how there are two different French post-apocalyptic snow train franchises, the other one being:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Compagnie_des_glaces

The idea of other trains being run by competing corporations is interesting, I think.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




I tried looking for an english version of the comic when the movie came out and couldn't. I assume by now it's easier to find?

Ur Getting Fatter
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight



Grimey Drawer

I'm not sure whether I like or not that Melanie and other characters give so much of a poo poo about what the First Class passengers think. In the real world their money buys them political power, which they can leverage to live above the rest of the world.

In Snowpiercer, whatever money and political connections they had are gone, the only real power is force and knowledge. So really what kind of credible threats can they pose against Melanie? What could they possibly offer the Head of Security?

On the other hand, the show explicitly has characters say that "respecting the order" is the most important thing so maybe it's just commentary on how the only reason that class structures exist is because we let them, but Melanie's whole point is that she sees behind the curtain.

I think that part of what the made the movie work is that the short runtime and the spectacle prevented you from dwelling too much on the details of the metaphor.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




They're only 7 years into the train ride. It takes a long time for a breed of people born of a capitalistic society to understand that wealth is not accumulated by the brightest and wisest minds humanity has to offer. That belief is what's keeping the First Class from being immediately expunged by Melanie. Though don't be surprised if she enlists everyone not in first class to help her take them down by the end of the series, especially if the drawers are meant for humanity's future.

Movie spoiler explanation: The entire society is structured in such a way that the people who do what they are best at will do so. Rich people are best at being served, servants are best at serving, and every person who greases the wheels for the eternal engine are meant to exist to grease those wheels. This structure is a massive algorithm requiring a specific population at each class of society. Wilford isn't actually a genius at this stuff so he couldn't figure out that an equal society is possible at all, he could only figure out what pre-train society had already instilled in him. That's my hazy memory of it, anyway.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



I´m glad they didnt extend the "mystery" of the drawers any longer than what they did. It was pretty obvious and it would've been quite annoying. The "X" thing is still open to interpretation I think, the survivors were probably chosen at the beginning, how did the doctor get her status changed?

Kinda weird how quickly they glanced over the fact they "doomed" their friend to the Tail lol. "They'll treat her well" lol. Dick move.

I think Layton is starting to see that a revolution may not be the best long term strategy for the survival of mankind, gonna be interesting to see how that plays out.

As to what Melanie wants with Miles I'm not so sure. Info on Layton? I doubt he knows anything she doesn't. And I REALLY doubt they are going the movie route, no hints regarding that I think.

Another movie comparison, I'm surprised they called them "bug bars", in the movie that was treated like a big reveal, here it's just another fact of life. Sucks to live in the tail.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

I've only seen the movie, not the TV show, but it did have me curious:

In the movie, they mention a previous revolt that happened. Presumably it had culled a significant number of tail enders and it was widely believed (falsely) that bullets had gone extinct. Are any of the revolts in the TV show one of those?

Supposedly Wilford is absent, and that lady is pretending to be him? How is that possible? I mean I guess they didn't have the budget for Ed Harris to come back. Only thing I can imagine is that Wilford is of course on the train, but in suspended animation, waking up from his sarcophagus as a failsafe when problems with the Eternal Engine become too severe.

Is Gideon even mentioned at all? The big thing in the film was that Wilford and Gideon were working together . I never really knew exactly Gideons role from the start, only that he was one of /the first "Martyrs" that sacrificed their limbs. What about Mason? I know this takes place a decade before the movie, but I imagine Mason would certainly be conniving and working her way up the chain. Is Ms Cavill supposed to be 'Mason'?

I get that there's a lot of story to tell without rehashing known characters but it's disappointing when these characters don't even seem to EXIST considering the train is a small place.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

They'll keep the stuff from the film they want, and won't use stuff they don't want to. Don't worry about continuity or canon.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Yeah, as far as I know it's just the same setting. I hope they don't tie it to the movie.

The show is leading to a revolt happening, but my bet would be on the status quo changing after it, not more years of the same.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Panfilo posted:

I know this takes place a decade before the movie
This is a completely different continuity. Show and movie are disconnected.

quote:

Snowpiercer executive producer and showrunner Graham Manson confirms the TV show is not part of the same continuity as the 2014 film of the same name.

“No, we stand alone. It goes back to one of the post scripts of the graphic novels, I think the third author said there are as many stories to tell on Snowpiercer as there are trains to circle the Earth. I like that, I think...that sounds like a franchise. So we’ll do one here, and then who knows, another train could start up sometime.”
They can nod and wink and misdirect based on what people know about the comic and film, though. They are certainly having fun with that. If at some point Ruth puts a shoe on her head, I'll be giggling like an idiot. What Melanie needs with Miles is of course a hint that they still need children to operate the engine somehow but that could just as easily have been a misdirection.

Man this episode... was loving intense. The little girl staring at what the outside looks like was actually kinda heartbreaking and they picked the best actress for the job. My only fear is they blew the "this could derail the whole train" load a little too early for something that's supposed to be an entire television series but in a world where we can imagine this is the only season the show gets, I'm glad we got it. I'm also glad that we can start, and stop, the sadist cop storyline in the same episode because that would have gotten old really fast, current events notwithstanding. I have to give the show credit for not falling into the same traps of bad television in terms of dragging poo poo out. We still have 4 episodes left and I really have no idea what's next.

Oh, I went to look something up on IMDB and got spoiled on something because the second season is already done. That's exciting!

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jun 22, 2020

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



This show is goddamn excellent.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Is there such a thing as a 'bottle episode' for Snowpiercer?
(Assuming they don't invent a new set)

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Jennifer Connelly is so drat attractive it hurts to look at her

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



DaveKap posted:


Man this episode... was loving intense. The little girl staring at what the outside looks like was actually kinda heartbreaking and they picked the best actress for the job.

Oh, I went to look something up on IMDB and got spoiled on something because the second season is already done. That's exciting!

During the little girl scene i was terrified the train would shake and she would break her neck against the wall, specially when she was turning her head. This show is bleak enough already, glad they didn't go for a cheap shot.

Great news about the second season! Also, title episodes of this season contain spoilers, so beware.

I guess that Melanie won't be returning, due to budget reasons, and season 2 will see the train thrown into (more) chaos.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Mr. Nemo posted:

I guess that Melanie won't be returning, due to budget reasons
Unsure what's making you say this but all signs point to this not being true.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jun 24, 2020

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



The Walrus posted:

Jennifer Connelly is so drat attractive it hurts to look at her

She' aged like they've kept her in the Drawers the past two decades for sure...if they were working properly.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



Goddamn.

Ms. Wilford is definitely the most effective "the ends justify the means" villain since Liber8. What a terrible dictator, and what a huge responsibility.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




This show is straight up Game of Thrones on a train to me now. I don't know if it's just because I'm so invested by watching every episode since I still have my qualms about the series (give us a new cool train car, dammit) or if it's deserved but this is now a show I eagerly anticipate each week.

I think it mostly has to do with the fact I can't predict most of the poo poo they end up doing in an episode.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Jun 30, 2020

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



The hand thing was pretty brutal even though we've seen stuff get frozen before. I was half expecting Josie to ram the house in Melanie's eye or in her mouth or something but welp.

Ur Getting Fatter
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight



Grimey Drawer

Josie’s a loving badass.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006


Tonight's episode had me on the edge of my seat with suspense, like back when I watched Game of Thrones and it was still GOOD. Snowpiercer has been the closest thing to capturing that GoT feeling for me -- the social strata struggles, the scheming, the shaky alliances, the heel turns and face turns, the harsh living conditions, the constant threat of brutal violence that sometimes explodes.

I can't wait for next week's two-hour finale, but it's already a huge relief knowing that Season 2 is already filmed and probably in postproduction now.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

Tonight's episode had me on the edge of my seat with suspense, like back when I watched Game of Thrones and it was still GOOD. Snowpiercer has been the closest thing to capturing that GoT feeling for me -- the social strata struggles, the scheming, the shaky alliances, the heel turns and face turns, the harsh living conditions, the constant threat of brutal violence that sometimes explodes.

I can't wait for next week's two-hour finale, but it's already a huge relief knowing that Season 2 is already filmed and probably in postproduction now.

Shut down part way into production because of Covid-19

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006


Open Source Idiom posted:

Shut down part way into production because of Covid-19

drat! I could have sworn I read it was done... maybe even in TVIV. Oh well.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Holy poo poo episode 8. So good.


Now, the easy solution is just disengage the wagons with the revolution, but that also includes most/all of 3rd and the Brakemen. So that would eliminate the work force, and good luck restoring social order with most guards dead. You'd end up with second being forced to do it all, and then you'd have a revolution again, etc.

Planning to kill Melanie is so stupid i hope they don't keep up that plotline much longer. It's seriously dooming the train to a very quick death. It hasn't been a month since she single handledly saved it. You need her as a prisoner at the very least.

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

I'm still watching the episode, but it's pretty much pissing me off already. I can understand those dumb snobs in first class being loving morons, but some ex-military top brass should probably be smart enough to figure that the engineering guys and girl in the front deserve the benefit of the doubt, since they were running the train quasi flawlessly for 7 years. More so, since they're rare to come by. Instead, there's typical forced TV drama.

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