|
Okay first of all, when this episode ended, I yelled at my screen "AWWW gently caress, AND SHE'S ON A TRAIN?! ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME?!" To be honest I'm fine with this; I want Melanie back, I don't care how they bring her back. I went into this episode ready to hate it. Plot progress doesn't happen inside someone's brain unless it's really necessary. However, I went ahead and took the perspective that this was a Star Trek holodeck episode, which let everything click into place. This was the time for actors to stretch their legs a little bit, the time to redress the sets for fun, get out some neat costumes, and even re-use a one-episode-only set-piece. In the end, it did pay off: I had no idea Layton was actually so dumb that he didn't realize the tree he saw came from a calendar. To be honest, I thought he knew the whole time but just took it as "a sign" that matched up with the data they found which had indicated the horn of Africa was the last place on Earth they hadn't checked that could have the necessary climate change. It's... really stupid! Layton is so stupid! Oh well, whatever it takes to resolve the mysticism angle. I'm glad there's some resolution with Zara/Josie and some clarification on the whole co-parent/couple dynamic that... oh... barely any other show is willing to tackle. Also glad to see Wilford and Audrey's redemption arcs, even though I'm suspect of Audrey's because she's basically doing LJ's "go with the winner" routine. I really think whoever is smearing grease on the camera lens to indicate "this is imaginary" needs to stop as the yellow tint was enough for us to understand what was going on. As usual I had, and have, no idea where this show is going to go next. You'd think it'd be a little more obvious when it's about a train on a track, eh? I have to assume it may come down to a "retrieve Melanie or reach New Eden" choice and some kind of uprising from the passengers vs the leaders but... who the hell knows. If Melanie brings with her a crew of unknown Train 3 people that'd be like a very Lost-like injection of new cast to help out with the removal of some favorites. Either that or... hello there Pike's long-lost twin brother! (I wouldn't even blink) Anyway, show still good.
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 14:46 |
|
|
I actually really like a theory about Audrey I saw on Reddit of all places. She's very empathic which is why she was doing what she did in the night car in season one. It's that strong empathy that made her very open to Wilford's manipulation, but now that he's changed and has rejected the Audrey he created, she's starting to get her old self back. It's just going to be a rough road.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 09:20
|
|
|
I disagree. She's just as much a manipulative sociopath as Wilfred and doesn't deserve redemption. But then again, they turned Ruth around after her crimes against humanity so anything is possible on magic train show.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 10:00
|
|
|
I'm kind of expecting that Layton's lie will coincidentally turn out to be right anyway. Ultimately I can't imagine the show ending with them still on the train, or if it does they'll be heading somewhere with a genuine and verified chance to get off it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 13:43
|
|
|
Paperhouse posted:I'm kind of expecting that Layton's lie will coincidentally turn out to be right anyway. Ultimately I can't imagine the show ending with them still on the train, or if it does they'll be heading somewhere with a genuine and verified chance to get off it. I think this third train group (these Marauders Asha was talking about) will be from some stable environment, and the show might end up splitting between people who want to live on the train and people who want to live in this new place.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 14:45
|
|
|
Paperhouse posted:I'm kind of expecting that Layton's lie will coincidentally turn out to be right anyway. Ultimately I can't imagine the show ending with them still on the train, or if it does they'll be heading somewhere with a genuine and verified chance to get off it. There's still one more season so lots of time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 15:29
|
|
|
Paperhouse posted:I'm kind of expecting that Layton's lie will coincidentally turn out to be right anyway. Ultimately I can't imagine the show ending with them still on the train, or if it does they'll be heading somewhere with a genuine and verified chance to get off it. Space in the eternal engine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2022 16:11
|
|
|
Not really a fan of the dream sequences, though it was nice to see where the tree came from and that it wasn't actual prophetic visions
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2022 00:10
|
|
|
Yeah so that was pointless. This season has been baaaaad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
Kinda average episode but decent nonetheless. Not too much to say about it. I kinda shrugged at Tilly's stuff (gonna be honest, it never occurred to me that she isn't over the poo poo she did as a brakeman but in hindsight it certainly explains a bit of her acting,) kinda winced hard at LJ's stuff, kinda looking forward to Strong Boy's return (or maybe Mister Headwood?!) kinda felt a little sad at Asha's death but felt like they handled it pretty well, kinda grinned at Ben being a bit scuffed about finding Melanie thanks to his recent relationship with Josie, kinda nice to see Javier connect with Sykes via saving her life, kinda laughed that Melanie's in a tiny snow plow, kinda intrigued that Zara's willing to bring her baby in on her self-indulgent spy work, got really happy with Mike O'Malley's singing, and flat out loved Oz dancing to his music as he pickles pickles. Show's got more plotlines than a soap opera at this point. That said there is one absolutely massive flaw... it's somehow a short detour to get to the Rocky Mountains when you're close to your destination of the horn of Africa. What?! It's about as egregious as the constantly shifting structure of the cars on the train, though; It's never correct but it never really matters. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Mar 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2022 08:03
|
|
|
The plow wasn't in the Rockies. They caught up to it in the middle east. It's easy to miss but they talk about switching onto an "Ottoman Pass." If I had to guess: Melanie put herself into suspended animation, assuming she could get the drawer drugs Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Mar 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2022 12:33
|
|
|
Mokinokaro posted:The plow wasn't in the Rockies. They caught up to it in the middle east.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2022 05:07
|
|
|
I don't think this season is bad, but it definitely feels like they've lost the plot and there's like an energy from previous seasons that's missing? Both Asha and Pike feel like they died for completely abitrary reasons
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2022 10:11
|
|
|
It feels like they have a few big plot beats they wanted to cover but are having trouble filling in the space between them satisfactorily.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2022 10:29
|
|
|
I genuinely don't understand the point of Asha's character. And what happened to the election plotline? Next year, maybe? Also, who the gently caress thought it was a good idea to let Wilfred have free run of a car?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2022 11:37
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:I genuinely don't understand the point of Asha's character. I think if instead of coma episode we had a episode of Asha finding belonging on the train, her sacrifice would of been better?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2022 12:08
|
|
|
i thought the episode was completely ok. I like when a show takes time to bring the viewer closer to the characters. That way i care when something terrible happens in the future. Nowadays too many films rush from sensation to sensation and i just don't care if i'm not connected to the characters somehow. So as soon as i decided this is the intention of the episode, i immediately thought that someone will die next episode. I didn't expect it to happen the same episode and i wouldn't have guessed Asha. Till - Audrey was really tense cause i can't read Audrey at all and 50/50 expected Audrey to kill Till after she got her drunk/relaxed. Wilford is almost the same, but i really lean more towards him becoming more social with the good guys as genuine. LJ is absolutely clinically insane and dumb to boot. Oz will hopefully kill her. Dr. Headwood would be right at home at Rapture and i can't help seeing her singing and dancing under the seas while jamming syringes in the eyeballs of poor shmucks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2022 20:34
|
|
|
That dream episode gave me Battlestar Galactica '04 vibes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2022 06:04
|
|
|
Well, it turns out that Ben was right about the engine being eternal, but the parts that make up the train not. Should have packed a few extra cars of spare parts instead of a bowling alley, Wilfred!
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
This train is too bloody long!
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
Something I forgot to mention from the dream episode: This show actually manages to do CG squibs/blood pretty well. So many shows nowadays loving fail at it and make me eternally depressed over how poor blood-production design looks in modern television so I notice it very easily. With Snowpiercer, it's still obviously fake, but the tracking and shading is done so much better than other shows that you really have to have a sense to see it rather than it being ultra-obvious. Kudos to whoever's on the show working on that... but gently caress all of Hollywood for abandoning physical fake blood.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2022 02:01
|
|
|
This show really feels like it’s lost its way. The first season was fantastic - a clear allegorical story that moved forward towards an exciting climax. The second season I could forgive somewhat as it was filmed right at the beginning of COVID and had clear compromises because of that. But I just have no idea what is going on now or what the point of anything is. The first season was all about Layton’s fight to improve life for the Talies and bring equality to the train. In season two this is largely delayed because they’re dealing with the sudden unexpected crisis of Wilford and Big Alice turning up. Then it’s obviously cancelled when Wilford takes the train. But what about now? There’s been almost no talk about it. It seems that first class is gone but that’s about it? “Old Ivan’s Way” is implied to be a thing of the past so it does seem there has been some change for the tail, but they seem to still be living there in similar conditions to before. I guess they can walk around the train now? If they want to say that Layton was unable to make large changes to the train society, that’s fine, but instead they’ve just ignored the whole issue and apparently forgotten the main theme of the show. The biggest offender of this lack of direction is the entire “New Eden Lie”. Why did this even happen? Why was there even a choice of whether they’d take the train there? The train has to keep moving and has no where else to go. There’s no urgency, they can take their time. There is literally no reason not to go check out this area to see if it’s defrosted based on even the flimsiest of evidence. But they needed something to “inspire the train” and instead of the actual reason he was elevated to Train King in the first place Layton makes up a bullshit lie about a new utopia which even if the area is defrosted definitely won’t exist and will inevitably be exposed in a matter of months. The proof given is Asha, who cannot describe New Eden in any detail and has no explanation of why she was found far outside of it. And now it looks like Asha was only on the show in the first place because they needed a character to replace Jennifer Connelly and with her return Asha has to die because they can’t afford both actors at once. It’s very frustrating.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2022 15:36
|
|
|
I honestly didn't think the first season was that good, the second one was a big improvement in my opinion, and despite all the problems this season I still like the show.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
With the tail thing, there's no longer any hard boundaries between classes, and people are free to move up and down the train, so there's more social mobility, and first class's monopoly has been broken, with the hardliners gone. It's a big step up from being crammed into a few cars for years and dragged out to do the worst jobs by uncaring thugs. (Even though Melanie didn't plan on having a few extra hundred people on board, it seemed like she wasn't using them effectively at all, and just allowing resentment to build up). It seems like most of the tail are in there because that's where their bunk and stuff is kept, so they sleep and rest there, but can go and do business throughout most of the train under Layton. For example, Lights has a stall in the third class market where she works. Most of the Big Alice survivors seem to have assimilated into the main train. Unless I missed something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2022 19:14
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:Unless I missed something. Comrade Fakename posted:This show really feels like it’s lost its way. The first season was fantastic - a clear allegorical story that moved forward towards an exciting climax. The second season I could forgive somewhat as it was filmed right at the beginning of COVID and had clear compromises because of that. But I just have no idea what is going on now or what the point of anything is. The New Eden Lie is one of those choices. I've explained it before up-thread and the show gives way too much benefit of the doubt on its viewers to understand the state of the train but having sat through horrible over-explainy television in recent years, it's actually something that's endeared me to Snowpiercer. So my explanation is like so: You may recall that Democracy was put on hold at the end of Season 1, Snowpiercer was put into a state of martial law by the rebel leader, Layton, in order to fend off Wilford. The war was "lost" at the end of Season 2 when the rebel leader left Snowpiercer with the eternal engine to form the pirate train while Wilford took back his kingly throne. What the state of Snowpiercer was during those 6 months is left up in the air with hints here and there in Season 3. There was a flu epidemic that killed folks off, there was a resistance cell that kept hope alive for a return to Democracy, and everyone was cold because the eternal engine wasn't there to keep them warm. When the pirate train came back at the end of those 6 months, Wilford was deposed but Snowpiercer's population and their trust in Democracy and the rebel faction was an unknown. People were pissed off at Layton for keeping them cold for 6 months, people were pissed this so-called Democracy wasn't enacted, but mostly people probably forgot the hope that they had 6 months earlier when Melanie was collecting data proving the Earth was warming up. So Layton has to solve a bunch of problems at once while in a post-concussive state that fed his brain with a vision: 1 - Enact Democracy. 2 - Get to where the vision showed him. 3 - Deal with a cold and pissed off train. 4 - Re-ignite hope. Getting to the horn of Africa couldn't be a decision made by just Layton, it had to be voted on. Getting to the horn of Africa wasn't easy, it's a dangerous and un-used track. Going there is literally risking all of humanity to possibly leave the train. Layton needed to bet big to get the train to vote his way but he didn't have enough chips on hand to do the convincing, which is where Asha comes in. Someone survived outside the train. That is mind-blowing to the people on Snowpiercer. So Layton used that big chip the best way he could, with the New Eden Lie. Now, admittedly, there is one point of contention I have with this whole thing. The pirate train went to every possible warming spot on Earth during its time away from Snowpiercer except the horn of Africa. It was literally the last data point left. I think that alone should've made a convincing argument and prevented the need of the lie but I'm OK with just accepting that, no, it wouldn't have been because in the end, all the other data points were failures so statistically the final data point is just going to be another failure. And like I said up-thread, pay attention to what the final numbers were on the vote. Even with all this convincing evidence that there was a warm spot on Earth to finally leave the train, only 2/3 of the train voted to go there. There are folks on this train ready to grow old and die in their confinements even if they saw green grass and grazing cows outside the window. You mention there is no urgency and they can take their time? That's a big maybe right now. Recall the bee colony collapse, the extinction of cows, the absolutely moronic destruction of the fish tank car, the need for supplies from Big Alice, the consistently-breaking-down bits of train we've seen over the seasons... Snowpiercer's engine may be eternal but the rest of it is slowly collapsing. There is a rush to get off this train, whether anyone's willing to state it or not. ...which...actually...brings us back around to the lack of allegory in this show. See, between the inability to vote for the obvious right choice and the possible-urgency to leave the train, you could very easily draw some parallels between what Snowpiercer is going through and what Earth is going through. I'm certain I don't need to type them out here and I'm not going to say they're all on purpose because, truthfully, I am into this show now for the characters and their ordeals among the neat premise. I'd rather the show never focus on one major problem and instead delve into as many small ones as it can. The premise of a comic was good enough to spawn multiple spin-off comics, a movie, and now a TV show. They're playing with the space, no need to get wrapped up in a single problem for the whole show, let alone a whole season. ...gently caress I typed too much. Hope you read it!
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2022 22:52
|
|
|
I mean, part of the reason why the class stuff was dropped was because the show was initially Josh Freidman's baby, before being replaced by Graeme Mason during the production of Season 1. Mason's more lib than leftist, and that stuff vanished, along with a lot of the more interesting world building. e.g. remember when Zara was part of a plural marriage (in retrospect this seems like a pun on running a train, lol). And we instead get stuff like Layton wanting to name his baby "Tolstoy" in Season 2. See also: Foundation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2022 23:42
|
|
|
why the gently caress did willford install a giant claw machine into his train and couldn't that space have been better served with, idk, more greenhouses?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 05:15
|
|
|
Yeah, okay, that was much, much better. I don't think the meandering quality of midseason justified this, but it was nice to see that a lot of this season's set up was pointful. Obviously Connelly can loving send it, but Blanchard was very, very good too. And there was some nice lighting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 12:25
|
|
|
tokin opposition posted:why the gently caress did willford install a giant claw machine into his train and couldn't that space have been better served with, idk, more greenhouses? Alternate answer: Futureproofing is important when you're saving humanity. Great episode. Melanie falling back into her old, cold ways is delightful and her push coming from Wilford is hilarious. Awesome to see we essentially have 3 factions now and really curious to see how the season wraps up next week. I'm glad we've got a fourth being filmed because, outside of a "rebels keep the train on track to the horn of Africa where it ends up being warm enough to disembark" plotline, there's no way the next episode would've been a satisfying series finale. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Mar 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 23:52
|
|
|
Wait, Layton never said to the train that he'd been to New Eden, just that Asha had been, right? I thought that WIlford was going to settle down into the "slightly reformed villain who works with the heroes, but is still selfish" archetype.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
I don't think i actually like this direction. "We are at war, again"
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 00:26
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:Wait, Layton never said to the train that he'd been to New Eden, just that Asha had been, right? We've not heard the full story he's selling, I think. But yeah, essentially it sounds like everyone from the pirate train had been, if not to New Eden, then nearby to pick Asha up. I'm not sure why the lie hadn't unravelled thanks to people asking basic questions like "Where is everyone else?" , "Why is Asha here and not on New Eden if that place is so great and she clearly hates the train?", or "Why can't we contact them on the radio?" Probably because there wouldn't be a story. I dunno though, I think what the show is trying to say about Layton -- and by extent socialism -- seems a bit dumb.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 01:05
|
|
|
network television having stupid poltics???? my goodness :p
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 02:49
|
|
|
tokin opposition posted:network television having stupid poltics???? my goodness :p Well yeah (not that this is technically network, but point taken). It's still worth pointing out though, yeah? Like this show really really wants to be, like, a take down of different political orders -- Melanie is some form of American captialism in the model of the OG Snowpiercer, Wilford seems evocative of Stalinism (and American propaganda) and Layton is some lovely socialist utopian model. But that's my take on this. Going from your posting here, and elsewhere, you're probably better versed in this kind of thing than I. Legit. I'd genuinely like to hear your take.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 04:48
|
|
|
Yeah the plot has been extremely messy this season. First there were questions about New Eden actually existing, but now it's simply just too dangerous to go there? Layton going "I'll tell you the truth when the time is right" and then loving bolting was such a dumb thing that just made the character seem insanely incompetent. I hope they, uh, simplify the narrative goals a bit next season.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 08:58
|
|
|
I was hoping they'd go and we can see some warming. But... I guess more train stories.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 14:02
|
|
|
Hakkesshu posted:Layton going "I'll tell you the truth when the time is right" and then loving bolting was such a dumb thing that just made the character seem insanely incompetent. Layton could have thrown Asha under the bus a little to save himself here. Say that she was only told to introduce herself on the comms, then she went off script about New Eden, and that they didn't correct her because he didn't want to let the passengers down. I'm hoping that they manage to end the conflict non-violently. In universe, it'd show that the passengers are becoming more civilized and can deal with issues properly, Melanie is too valuable a resource to risk, and the number of people over all must be getting lower and lower.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 19:39
|
|
|
They can eat LJ though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 20:27
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:They can eat LJ though. 100%. Every day they don’t imprison/kill the confirmed psycho killer is another lost aopportunity
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 20:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 14:46 |
|
|
Clark Gregg joins the show for season 4 https://gizmodo.com/marvel-star-clark-gregg-joins-snowpiercer-season-4-1848715978
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 04:33
|
|