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Ur Getting Fatter
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight



Grimey Drawer

Combat Pretzel posted:

I'm still watching the episode, but it's pretty much pissing me off already. I can understand those dumb snobs in first class being loving morons, but some ex-military top brass should probably be smart enough to figure that the engineering guys and girl in the front deserve the benefit of the doubt, since they were running the train quasi flawlessly for 7 years. More so, since they're rare to come by. Instead, there's typical forced TV drama.

Yeah, I mentioned this before that it's dumb Grey (head security guy) to even give a passing thought to what the firsties think since they have nothing to offer him. Of course he might just want to take power himself, like a military coup, and wants some sort of "political will" behind him to get the rank and file behind him but if it is the show hasn't given enough context to that decision.

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Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Combat Pretzel posted:

I'm still watching the episode, but it's pretty much pissing me off already. I can understand those dumb snobs in first class being loving morons, but some ex-military top brass should probably be smart enough to figure that the engineering guys and girl in the front deserve the benefit of the doubt, since they were running the train quasi flawlessly for 7 years. More so, since they're rare to come by. Instead, there's typical forced TV drama.

Yeah, if Grey goes ahead with the execution of Melanie it's gonna be disappointing. He wants power for himself, that's believable, but he also wants the train to keep running.

His best plan would be to keep the conductors and Mel alive, do an absolute massacre on third and second. Release a few wagons to save energy. Reduce comforts in first, except for him and his cronies. Typical revolution stuff.

Edit: page 2! woooo, only 999 to go.

Mr. Nemo fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jul 6, 2020

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011



Let’s kill the person who designed and built the train and knows every single detail about the train to keep everyone alive.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



The entire motivation for keeping the first class around makes no sense in the first place. What do they offer? They don't seem to actually do anything useful or critical to the operation of the train. The show has given us no good reason for why Melanie hasn't just iced the loving Folgers, like if you want to keep peace and order that's where you start.

I stíll think it's a pretty good show, but Melanie's absolutely stone cold evil and a terrible leader and they keep trying to portray her as having this incredible responsibility on her shoulders when actually making the train run peacefully seems like it would be pretty easy so long as you aren't incredibly fascist and try to be inclusive and humane to everyone.

Unless there's some other twist like there was in the movie, but we will see.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

Lol at that one guy who ran from third class all the way to first to bring news of the revolucion, like Gendry at the Wall. Meanwhile people nip back and forth to wherever the plot needs like it's nothing. They must've already enabled Fast Travel!

Greataval
Mar 26, 2010


The trains ecological collapse already seals the fate of the rebellion. They are dead they just don't know it yet.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Marmaduke! posted:

Lol at that one guy who ran from third class all the way to first to bring news of the revolucion, like Gendry at the Wall. Meanwhile people nip back and forth to wherever the plot needs like it's nothing. They must've already enabled Fast Travel!
They showed the undercarriage cars in the first episode. They don't explicitly explain their structure but if you put 2 and 2 together, you figure some things out.
1: They don't stop at every car. Layton had to be dragged up some cars to get to it in the first episode.
2: They aren't under First Class. The train is noisy enough without having a transport car go underneath your expensive bunk.
3: Jackboots are probably as out of shape as anyone else on the train. We haven't seen any recreational facilities (because of budget, I'm sure) but "they have a bowling alley" makes me think they would have a track to jog along but who the gently caress knows on Snowpiercer.

With all these facts, I think he was just sprinting from wherever the underground car's last stop is.

Hakkesshu posted:

Unless there's some other twist like there was in the movie, but we will see.
I'm 100% certain they're going to have some massive twist in the finale. You don't pull an episode 1 twist without having a larger finale twist. It's just... not a thing shows like this do anymore.
If that twist helps explain things like Melanie's fascism or the reason the Firsties have to exist is to be seen but I wouldn't doubt it.
Keep in mind that Melanie is trying to essentially keep the existence of God safe. That's the parallel being made here, as it was in the film and, I assume, the original works. Combine the fact that faith-based reasoning for anything is typically seen as stupid in modern television (I won't comment on the real world, here) along with the fact that Melanie is such a nerd she designed the eternal engine's perpetual motion machine to keep everyone alive... there's probably going to be a decently written explanation for her actions as a part of the final twist.

Hey so... why is Strong Boy speaking Mandarin? Did it turn out the vault is also putting people in The Matrix and teaching them things?

Edit: Oh, right, just to take a stab at it... the Firsties have to exist to give the other classes "something to do" ("we run this train") because idle hands are the devil's tools. Originally they existed for Wilford to gently caress and socialize with, at least that much was confirmed in this episode. I mean, either that or it's just another form of control. It's a bit hand-wavy but easy to understand and just be like "sure whatever move on" with.

poo poo, this show got me mega-posting huh?

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jul 7, 2020

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



Hakkesshu posted:

The entire motivation for keeping the first class around makes no sense in the first place. What do they offer? They don't seem to actually do anything useful or critical to the operation of the train. The show has given us no good reason for why Melanie hasn't just iced the loving Folgers, like if you want to keep peace and order that's where you start.

I stíll think it's a pretty good show, but Melanie's absolutely stone cold evil and a terrible leader and they keep trying to portray her as having this incredible responsibility on her shoulders when actually making the train run peacefully seems like it would be pretty easy so long as you aren't incredibly fascist and try to be inclusive and humane to everyone.

Unless there's some other twist like there was in the movie, but we will see.

Melanie has hinted that the Train was designed in a certain way by Wilford. Considering the whole show is about Class, I would imagine Wilford designed it to be some sort of an integral part of the Train's operations to have the separation between the classes? Second seems to be more tied to First in their privileges and attitudes and it seems to be they are the most important people in regards to science and the Drawers so maybe it is about them mostly too. Maybe the top Jackboot brass is part of the first, or like Grey ideologically committed into the class structure. They could definitely cast more light to it, though.

The cast is so good that it doesn't really take away from my entertainment though.

EDIT: I'm 90% sure Pike is just bullshitting, no way after 7 years on the Tail he would turn that quickly, right? Maybe he is just a sociopath though and Ogg was probably cursed by some Slavic witch to play bad guys his whole career so...

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jul 7, 2020

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011



This is weird because I’m feeling sympathetic towards Melanie and her story, and I thought most people would too.

The way she plays a dual role is so good.

To me it’s obvious that her real personality is what she shows when she’s wearing a hoodie or when she was down there trying to fix the brakes and has her guard down, even acting happy and cheering on that they saved the train.

When she’s wearing that green jacket she’s putting on a front that I feel like a ton of women in power today in 2020 know all too well where they absolutely can’t show any sign of weakness otherwise their subordinates start walking all over them. Case in point, Ruth is known to be compassionate to some of the folks and for that she was targeted by the strongman for manipulation.

It also seems like the only reason she kept up the Wilford charade is because he was already deified prior to departure as the genius who’s saving everyone. Nobody knows who Melanie is even though the only reason they have a train to survive in is because I assume she was the lead engineer who designed it all and did all the math. Nobody would have listened to her, and if she’s telling the truth about Wilford wanting to just gently caress his way to death then good riddance.

If she was a power hungry tyrant she wouldn’t have stood back and let Baki(?) take all the credit for fixing the brakes and saving their lives. I got that she put Layton in a freezer just because she freaked out and didn’t know how to deal with the curtains falling down and correctly predicted that the entire train would revolt, risking and destroying everything they worked so hard on.

I get the sense that she would have abolished the classes if she could, but initially she needed to get the train running smoothly, and then she needed to keep it running smoothly to ensure the survival of the entire human race. Is she blameless? Of course not, but I think she truly did fight for what was right.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

DaveKap posted:


With all these facts, I think he was just sprinting from wherever the underground car's last stop is.

Yeah I figured it would be something like that, I just think they're doing a disservice to the train's scale with how quickly people pop up wherever they need to be for the plot. Like how sometimes the train appears to be 20 feet wide (e.g. Nightcar) but other times you'll barely fit in 4 chairs and a walkway. I know that not every carriage has to be the same scale though, like you get some real trains that are massive double deckers (but not all carriages).

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Wilford is alive and in the drawers, he is played by Ed Harris, this really is a prequel despite showrunners' claims to the contrary.

Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012



This is pretty obvious but:

Melanie = neoliberalism
Ruth and the guards = fascism
Layton and the Tail = socialism

Melanie maintains social stratification because it is a holdover from the old world and she believes it is the only way to maintain the stability required for the train to continue to run and humanity to survive. The show/franchise in general is an allegory about how neoliberal capitalism trundles on with no alternatives allowed despite the fact that it is plainly unsustainable. Melanie believes she is buying time for the suspended animation tech to be developed that will allow the selected people to be put in the drawers to wait out the ice age.

The most unrealistic thing about the show is that Wilford being dead is a surprise to anyone. In reality rumours and conspiracy theories start swirling when people don't see a world leader for a week.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

I also think that after she killed Wilford, she probably wanted to prove to herself that she's not a complete monster so she didn't wantonly cull the useless first class. Probably regrets that by now...

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Come to think of it, of what has been shown of the lifestyle of the classes, the engine seems the only place that's actually "normal". Bunch of engineer nerds in hoodies or overalls.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Combat Pretzel posted:

Come to think of it, of what has been shown of the lifestyle of the classes, the engine seems the only place that's actually "normal". Bunch of engineer nerds in hoodies or overalls.
I'm pretty sure Second is your average middle class lifestyle. Firsties do no work, Thirdies do grunt-to-lightly-skilled work, Tailies do literal poo poo work, while the Seconds are the skilled workforce. We barely see them or their quarters (Jinju and the nurse, for example) because they're pretty plain and make for less interesting set designs.

I almost want to list out every set that exists in this show just to get an idea of the balance of what we've been shown. Seems like a fun practice.

Edit: gently caress it, let's try. A few of these locationally have to be guesses. Most sets seem to have a hallway or alcove connected (most of Third Class is alcoves) so just assume those are included with the room.
Engine -> Engineer Quarters -> Hospitality -> First Class Dining -> First Class Dorm -> Sushi Car -> Hospital -> Drawers -> Second Class Dorms (2) -> Meat Car -> Jail -> Night Car -> Third Class Dorms -> School (2) -> Third Class Restaurant -> Janitorial -> Third Class Commercial (2?) -> Showers -> Tail (2)
Unspecified and multiples: Electrical Breaker Car, Security Checkpoints, Underground Transport, Below Deck Maintenance

So that makes about... 27 train-car-sized sets (with some being double-sized) for Season 1 thus far. You know, it's a lot more impressive when you lay it out like that.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 7, 2020

Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

Mr. Nemo posted:

Release a few wagons to save energy.

Won't they crash into them on the next go round?

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




oh but seriously I posted:

Won't they crash into them on the next go round?
If you think they designed that train not to have a failsafe for ejected wagons, you greatly underestimate Melanie Cavill's design!
Also the train is called Snowpiercer. Pretty sure if it's designed to smash through the debris of a post-apocalyptic ice world, it can smash through a train car.

Timespy
Jul 6, 2013

No bond but to do just ones



oh but seriously I posted:

Won't they crash into them on the next go round?

In one of the episodes they mentioned leaving cars on a siding, so I suppose there are sections of the track with sidings running parallel to the main track that can be used.

Kegslayer
Jul 23, 2007


Is anybody else watching this because goddamn that finale was amazing.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Yeah that was fantastic.

I was very surprised that it concluded in the first hour but there's no happy ending at the end of a violent revolution. There's a lot of transitional issues that need to be rethought before a new order is established.

They lost 7 "first" cars. It looks like one was a classroom, and the others are just storage?

When Ruth cites 147 people in those cars, I wonder if she included the ones that were going to be executed.


It makes sense to have a 'Supply train'. They don't necessarily want to keep hauling 40 cars of just supplies. Somehow 1041 cars long just isn't as sexy as 1001.

E. Revenant
Aug 26, 2002

If the abyss gazes long into you then stare right back;
make it blink.

Really surprised this thread isn't more active. This show is a good ride, once it gets going the runtime just flies by.

Man that growing dread on the finale second hour when the second train connected and I realized its setting up for a comic/movie version take over of OUR train. Going into an even more grim situation after the glimmer of hope from the successful revolution was expected from a drama stand point but still incredibly disheartening

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Do you think they animated the very ending because they ran out of CG budget or is it just a really cool throwback to the comic? I wanna say it's the latter but all things considered I wouldn't be surprised if it was the former.
EDIT: It's the latter. It bookends the entire season, the first ep started this way as well.

Also this ep had the best line in the entire series. (Sorry for the 16mb gif but I can't spoiler mp4s)


I had to pause and just laugh for a solid minute.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Jul 13, 2020

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



Superb show, superb finale. Can't wait to see how crazy the OTHER train is.

Laughing Zealot
Oct 10, 2012




Only thing missing in the finale was Sean Bean actually appearing.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

Good show. Fantastic final episode. I was a little worried we'd get a LOST season 1 cliffhanger there at the end, but this worked.

Laughing Zealot posted:

Only thing missing in the finale was Sean Bean actually appearing.

Unfortunately, Sean Bean's character died just before they could introduce him.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj8rEeOCCXQ

lol, the comments are a trash fire

Thank god this forum isn't going anywhere for a bit. I wasn't looking forward to sifting out all the "tallies should be grateful they were allowed to live" hot takes (among, other, hotter, sweatier takes) if we all had to migrate.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Laughing Zealot posted:

Only thing missing in the finale was Sean Bean actually appearing.
To be completely honest I was ready and waiting for it because IMDB already spoiled that he's in 11 episodes but it turned out the 11th was just his uncredited voice work in the 3rd episode when Melanie is editing his speech.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


DaveKap posted:

To be completely honest I was ready and waiting for it because IMDB already spoiled that he's in 11 episodes but it turned out the 11th was just his uncredited voice work in the 3rd episode when Melanie is editing his speech.

I've been literally saying he was gonna appear since that episode. Nice to be vindicated, finally.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Holy poo poo, I had no idea the actor in the spoilers was involved. Season 2 when?

Thanks everyone for participating on the thread, it couldn't live up to the promise in its title but it was one hell of a ride.

Amazing ending. I wasn't sure where the thrust for the second season was going to come. This is an interesting decision. Was the other train always running just behind them? Why wait until the seventh year for the take over? Are they experiencing some kind of emergency?

I read spoilers from the comic, and I'm glad they didn't got in the same direction with the "mysterious music signal", it got weird fast.

Open Source Idiom posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj8rEeOCCXQ

lol, the comments are a trash fire

Thank god this forum isn't going anywhere for a bit. I wasn't looking forward to sifting out all the "tallies should be grateful they were allowed to live" hot takes (among, other, hotter, sweatier takes) if we all had to migrate.

"I don't understand even the people in the tales.
Of course it's pathetic, but if they've lived in a free ride, they should be grateful for everything."

Lol, you weren't kidding! It's not like peolpe in first had a drat bowling alley, there simple wasn't enough for everyone to have a decent standard of living.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/snowpiercer-season-1-finale-explained-graeme-manson-interview-1302881

quote:

You had finished most or all of filming on season two, before production had to shut down in March, correct?

Yeah. We came very close to completing, but I think we left about eight or nine days on the table, which is too bad. So we are strategizing on how to pick that up. But I think we are very fortunate, considering many productions, with where we were when we broke. We’re deeply involved in editing season two now. We have almost a complete season to play with and options of how to pick things up.

It sucks that they were so close to finishing the second season.


Hey TNT, if you're gonna get everyone back together for production, it might make sense to start filming it with Season 3!

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Mr. Nemo posted:

"I don't understand even the people in the tales.
Of course it's pathetic, but if they've lived in a free ride, they should be grateful for everything."

Lol, you weren't kidding! It's not like peolpe in first had a drat bowling alley, there simple wasn't enough for everyone to have a decent standard of living.

Yeah, the one that made me goggle was the idea that the Tailie's "chose" to illegally board Snowpiercer. Apparently the decision between eking out a living enslaved to a bunch of rich poo poo heads and, I dunno, just dying because those same poo poo heads destroyed the rest of the world is a choice -- and that's the kind of "choice" that a baby should suffer for. (The existence of that little girl in the tail really tells you everything you need to know about the morality involved here).

To be honest, I'm genuinely shocked to see no mention of reprisal killings among First class.

evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!

Pillbug

I was so loving sure that Strong Boy would get killed in the first few seconds when they tried revolting in the first episode.

Flint_Paper
Jun 7, 2004

This isn't cool at all Looshkin! These are dark forces you're titting about with!

I've not read the comics, so is (last episode spoiler) the other train doing a hekkin big monch on Snowpiercer a callback to that?

Also, god drat I am a simple man, but Melanie occasionally having her W badge upside down is a lovely bit of foreshadowing.

Season 2: I'm really excited to see Sean Bean's Wilford, but I was kinda hoping that the drawers were keeping Wilford alive somehow. Like the whole train was a 40k Dreadnaught

bou
Aug 3, 2006



Catching up with the finale and holy poo poo there is a LOT happening. Could h ave easily made 1 or even 2 more episodes of it, but not complaining. I'll just rewatch. Best new series 2020 so far.

Props to the casting department that i immediately thought "This should be Melanie's daughter" as she stepped out of the door. Very intrigued about her feelings towards her mother.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

Flint_Paper posted:

I've not read the comics, so is (last episode spoiler) the other train doing a hekkin big monch on Snowpiercer a callback to that?

The show isn't directly following the comics but a similar thing happens in book two of the comic.

RYYSZLA
May 11, 2013


I watched up to episode 4 or so on netflix last night

real talk guys, does this show get better at all? It's so bad

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

RYYSZLA posted:

I watched up to episode 4 or so on netflix last night

real talk guys, does this show get better at all? It's so bad

Maybe not for you, but I thought the first 4 episodes kicked rear end.

RYYSZLA
May 11, 2013


GreenNight posted:

Maybe not for you, but I thought the first 4 episodes kicked rear end.

The first episode is incredible, one of the strongest first episodes of anything I've ever seen, it does an exceptional job of worldbuilding in 1hr what the movie did in 2 but without revealing any of the things that'd be spoilers for those who havent seen the movie.

But like, by episode 3 I was just checked out.

I want it to be for me, because all indications say this is gonna be a mr robot / the wire / prestige-drama-style overarching story which is my kind of poo poo. The production value appears to be really high aswell, but the pacing is... terrible. Im having to force myself to pay attention past episode 1, which is saying something negative about a show I -want- to watch

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

I think you should give episode 5 a go. The show only gets better once it's done pretending to be a police procedural.

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Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



RYYSZLA posted:



I want it to be for me, because all indications say this is gonna be a mr robot / the wire / prestige-drama-style overarching story which is my kind of poo poo. The production value appears to be really high aswell, but the pacing is... terrible. Im having to force myself to pay attention past episode 1, which is saying something negative about a show I -want- to watch

If your expectation is Mr. Robot or the Wire I'd suggest you check out of the show now.

I think the murder plot should be done by episode 4 or 5, and it only gets better after that.

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