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xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Miles?

(The actor)
https://twitter.com/JaylinFletcher/status/1356490680646983681?s=20

He was namechecked by saying that Josie doesn't want Miles to see her like this.

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DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Ur Getting Fatter posted:

I’m not sure if it just wasn’t shown, but there really doesn’t seem to have been that big of a shakeup on room assignments after the revolution.

The fact that Layton can just get a huge first class room for himself when there should be like 10 other people at least living there is kind of weird.
It's either a joke, an oversight, or (hopefully) just a mildly nuanced commentary about how revolutions' winners can still succumb to power without realizing it and how it will come back to bite them in the rear end.

Sloth Life
Nov 15, 2014

Built for comfort and speed!

Fallen Rib

Having what appears to be the first baby in a while (not incl the tail?) may explain it, Ruth in particular was overjoyed and almost reverent towards the mom.

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

You're all I think, this thing set troublin


Ur Getting Fatter posted:

Really wish they had taken a bit more time to flesh out the Melanie/Alex relationship. I understand that Alex is probably desperate for human warmth and love but the speed at which she went from "I don't really care about you, Melanie" to "I love you, mom" is so fast that it keeps me wondering whether she's actually playing Melanie.

If she was doing a long con she wouldn't have had to pretend when she was alone with Willford though.

Also, Willford seem like a total moron. None of his plans have worked out so far and he is constantly outplayed by Layton. And now Alex is almost ready to abandon him. I really like that he isn't some hyper competent villain, it's a fresh take.

The only real complaint so far this season is the total lack of Oily Bob on screen. The show is literally unwatchable without him and I'm done with it if we don't get to see him by the end of the season.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Isn't it Icy Bob?

Wilford doesn't seem to have some kind of elaborate masterplan, he's just making up whatever will benefit himself most at the current time. Seven years in an echo chamber isn't good for anyone's sense of scope and the engineers said that he was manipulative and cruel enough pre-apocalypse.

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001


For all her faults, Milford was a far more forward-thinking leader than Wilford

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




OldMemes posted:

Isn't it Icy Bob?


We have yet to meet oiler bob. I'll laugh if oiler bob is just someone named bob who works with the engine oil.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


DaveKap posted:



We have yet to meet oiler bob. I'll laugh if oiler bob is just someone named bob who works with the engine oil.

Ah, my mistake. I like the idea that Wilford picks people for horrifying genetic experiments based on if their name is Bob or not.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Watch out for Spiderbob.

ItohRespectArmy
Sep 11, 2019

Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Third ever International Princess champion And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"



wait till you guys find out about bob the builder.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





Speculation: I have a feeling Wilford is gonna send Icy Bob out to kill Melanie since he wants to get him ready for even colder

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009
DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL



Nah, I think Icy Bob is more likely going to be used to (since you spoilered your speculation) attack Snowpiercer from the outside. I thought he said they had like a week to go colder & longer and that doesn't match with the 1 month time before they see Melanie again. I could have misheard the sequence though. Was kind of distracted watching the episode as my furnace is loud as hell and I was watching in my garage/office space.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Inspector 34 posted:

Nah, I think Icy Bob is more likely going to be used to (since you spoilered your speculation) attack Snowpiercer from the outside. I thought he said they had like a week to go colder & longer and that doesn't match with the 1 month time before they see Melanie again. I could have misheard the sequence though. Was kind of distracted watching the episode as my furnace is loud as hell and I was watching in my garage/office space.

No he made an explicit point of Bob needing to be ready way earlier.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

The scientist couple asked if they had the full month to prepare Icy Bob, and Wilford told them to do it in two weeks.

But that might be because Wilford likes to stress his subjects.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

GABA ghoul posted:

Also, Willford seem like a total moron. None of his plans have worked out so far and he is constantly outplayed by Layton. And now Alex is almost ready to abandon him. I really like that he isn't some hyper competent villain, it's a fresh take.

He's a self serving charismatic idiot who as Oldmemes pointed out has been in a cult of personality for seven years.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Mokinokaro posted:

He's a self serving charismatic idiot who as Oldmemes pointed out has been in a cult of personality for seven years.

Also he's not the genius engineer/inventor he sells himself as: Melanie was the one who actually created the engine, Wilford seems to have largely put up the capital for it, and taken the credit. I can't imagine the paperwork for building an elaborate system of train tracks around the entire planet.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Episode Three Random Thoughts:
- This Breaksman characterisation is kinda sudden, right? They're basically a rival gang of Wilfred fanatics. I don't remember them being like that last season. They spent all last season's finale "mourning"? gently caress off. That's ugly retroactive continuity.
- I broke up with my girlfriend offscreen, remember? That's why we're never going to see her or her aquarium ever again!
- MY WIFE, NOT APPEARING IN THIS ANECDOTE. I'm half convinced his wife is dead.
- Look, it might be corny, but those scenes where the train was banking and everyone had to throw themselves to one side of the train? :chefkiss: gorgeous. Love that poo poo, inject it directly into my veins.
- Also I like visceral reminders that living on the train is loving rickety and scary even on a good day. "Please evacuate to the other half of the train! We're turning off the power now."
- Sean Bean is better in this role than I've seen him in years. Acting everyone off the show -- though he's not shared a proper scene with Ruth yet. I hope they don't kill him this season.
- They're absolutely killing him this seasons.
- Also? Alex dies this season. Absolutely. Calling it. She turns on Wilfred, and he kills her, and this cements Ruth's turn towards Melanie and helps to rebuild their friendship.
- Or she goes off the deep end and it's a big acting showcase for Alison Wright, but I find that seriously doubtful.
- Love the little fantasy touches, like Wilfred's throne. There's something about the nightclub hostess doing random terrible poetry during the lockdown that made me think of people hiding out in British nightclubs during the Blitz, that I really loved. That little surreal touch, where you don't know if you're in the past or the future.
- Most important question, to me: Who's Melanie going to talk to for the next four episodes? And will Ben and Havier gently caress? They're clearly loving right? I choose to believe the two of them and MILFord are a uniquely stable polyamorous trio, where two thirds of the couple tries to pretend the other third doesn't exist, because it's kind of awkward.

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

You're all I think, this thing set troublin


Yeah, Sean Bean is great in this. Melanie's actor too. The acting and writing in general is very solid.

Makes me really worried about it getting cancelled though. It seems like it's very expensive to make while not being very popular and Netflix loves to axe shows after season 3.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

Open Source Idiom posted:

Episode Three Random Thoughts:
- This Breaksman characterisation is kinda sudden, right? They're basically a rival gang of Wilfred fanatics. I don't remember them being like that last season. They spent all last season's finale "mourning"? gently caress off. That's ugly retroactive continuity.

Breach men. Brakemen are the cops. Easy mistake and yeah it seems a huge retcon. Especially since the one standout of the group was somewhat pro revolution iirc last season.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- MY WIFE, NOT APPEARING IN THIS ANECDOTE. I'm half convinced his wife is dead.

He alluded to his family last season too. I'm pretty sure them not appearing is just a budget thing.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Look, it might be corny, but those scenes where the train was banking and everyone had to throw themselves to one side of the train? :chefkiss: gorgeous. Love that poo poo, inject it directly into my veins.
- Also I like visceral reminders that living on the train is loving rickety and scary even on a good day. "Please evacuate to the other half of the train! We're turning off the power now."

Yeah I love how much they sell the setting. The contrast with Big Alice was cool to seen. Everyone not Wilford is basically in a place comparable to the Tail.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


The people in the Tail can at least sleep without Wilford giving long speeches through the speakers in the bunks!

If season 3 has a proper ending, it could work as a three season show - Legion did that really well, so it can be done. Scheduling Jennifer Connolly and Sean Bean seems like it'd be hard, and Daveed Diggs is getting bigger, so a well done three seasons could end fine.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



GABA ghoul posted:

If she was doing a long con she wouldn't have had to pretend when she was alone with Willford though.

Also, Willford seem like a total moron. None of his plans have worked out so far and he is constantly outplayed by Layton. And now Alex is almost ready to abandon him. I really like that he isn't some hyper competent villain, it's a fresh take.

He's not a leader, he's a god.

The Greek kind, specifically.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Anyone read the graphic novel(s)? If so, how does this adaptation fair next to them?

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

The graphic novels are very much their own thing though the show has taken a few elements from them.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Open Source Idiom posted:

Episode Three Random Thoughts:
- This Breaksman characterisation is kinda sudden, right? They're basically a rival gang of Wilfred fanatics. I don't remember them being like that last season. They spent all last season's finale "mourning"? gently caress off. That's ugly retroactive continuity.

- The Breachmen were given a proper "mysterious and untrustworthy" air somewhere in the first 4 (most forgettable) episodes of Season 1. You were supposed to suspect one of them was the murderer.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- I broke up with my girlfriend offscreen, remember? That's why we're never going to see her or her aquarium ever again!
- Yeah I hope they go back to the aquarium despite the actress not coming back for Season 2.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- MY WIFE, NOT APPEARING IN THIS ANECDOTE. I'm half convinced his wife is dead.

Mokinokaro posted:

He alluded to his family last season too. I'm pretty sure them not appearing is just a budget thing.
- My bet is that Mike O'Malley's family is, more likely than not, dead and it's gonna be a sad coping mechanism twist at some point. (The fact I'm guessing this is contradictory to another point I'm making later in this post so Occam's Razor his family is just a soft backstory to keep his character viewed as a family man.)

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Sean Bean is better in this role than I've seen him in years. Acting everyone off the show -- though he's not shared a proper scene with Ruth yet. I hope they don't kill him this season.
- They're absolutely killing him this seasons.
- Sean Bean won't die because it's already been stated that he is no longer taking roles where he dies. If he did die, then all that news about him trying to avoid the meme was a bigger misdirection than Star Trek: Discovery's fake actor name trick.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Also? Alex dies this season. Absolutely. Calling it. She turns on Wilfred, and he kills her, and this cements Ruth's turn towards Melanie and helps to rebuild their friendship.
- Or she goes off the deep end and it's a big acting showcase for Alison Wright, but I find that seriously doubtful.
- Alex could die but I feel like bringing Josie back to life severely increased the safety of all named characters. Also the "character you thought was dead is actually alive but you only get to spend one episode/season with them so status quo/severe characte depression can ensue" trope seems like something Snowpiercer would avoid. Keep in mind that Snowpiercer has been phenomenal because it has consistently avoided tropes and obvious writing. I cannot guess what will happen next and I love it.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Most important question, to me: Who's Melanie going to talk to for the next four episodes? And will Ben and Havier gently caress? They're clearly loving right? I choose to believe the two of them and MILFord are a uniquely stable polyamorous trio, where two thirds of the couple tries to pretend the other third doesn't exist, because it's kind of awkward.
Havier is both visibly distressed by, and actively jealous of, Melanie's relationship with Ben. There has been zero hint of anything else being the case, as fun as it would be.

GABA ghoul posted:

Makes me really worried about it getting cancelled though. It seems like it's very expensive to make while not being very popular and Netflix loves to axe shows after season 3.
They renewed Season 3 in like November or December I think. They know they've got something good.

OldMemes posted:

The people in the Tail can at least sleep without Wilford giving long speeches through the speakers in the bunks!

If season 3 has a proper ending, it could work as a three season show - Legion did that really well, so it can be done. Scheduling Jennifer Connolly and Sean Bean seems like it'd be hard, and Daveed Diggs is getting bigger, so a well done three seasons could end fine.
Snowpiercer's hospitality would go on the PA system daily which, to the tail, was a reminder about what the rest of the train had but the tail did not.
Also I don't agree Legion did their 3 seasons well at all because each season was so different from one another, it left people with tonal whiplash. It's still very good that it ended, though, because Season 2 made it clear that there wasn't going to be enough thought put into the show to keep it running very long anyway.

Mokinokaro posted:

The graphic novels are very much their own thing though the show has taken a few elements from them.
Very glad to hear this. I really enjoy that all the mediums Snowpiercer is being presented on have their own story to tell but with similar brushes.

As for all the comments about the acting, I honestly don't think any one person on the show is acting at, or below, par. They're all doing a phenomenal job. Sean Bean fits right in.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Feb 14, 2021

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

I'm actually really hoping they borrow some elements of the graphic novel Terminus (early spoilers for the novel)Dealing with humans who found a way to survive in the remnants of a city who want to use the train's population to prolong their own lives would be fun.

A big difference in the comics is that there were actually ten trains and they leave what happened to most of them a mystery for a long time.

bou
Aug 3, 2006



My little pet theory for what will happen is that Melanie will die, or at least presumed MIA for the audience and to Snowpiercer, but not before she sends that precious data. Her death will be through something Wilford ordered. Alex finds out about this and changes sides, becoming Snowpiercer's new Melanie.

More ungrounded speaculation: The "W"-Murderer is Osweiler in a desperate attempt to look cool in LJ's eyes.

On an other topic: My two must-watch shows this year so far are The Expanse and Snowpiercer and both have as a central plot the story of a mother who gets in contact with the child she abandoned long ago and now tries to save it from a malicious father (figure). So far, Mel-Alex-Wilford is miles ahead of Naomi-Filip-Marco.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




bou posted:

So far, Mel-Alex-Wilford is miles ahead of Naomi-Filip-Marco.
Agreed. I can't quite explain how or why but Naomi's relationship with Filip is just so much more "don't care" to me than Mel's with Alex.

My guess is they've given me too few reasons to care about Naomi as a character.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Feb 15, 2021

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

bou posted:

My little pet theory for what will happen is that Melanie will die, or at least presumed MIA for the audience and to Snowpiercer, but not before she sends that precious data. Her death will be through something Wilford ordered. Alex finds out about this and changes sides, becoming Snowpiercer's new Melanie.

This really does seem likely. Would be a shame to lose Jennifer Connelly though.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



DaveKap posted:

Agreed. I can't quite explain how or why but Naomi's relationship with Filip is just so much more "don't care" to me than Mel's with Alex.

My guess is they've given me too few reasons to care about Naomi as a character.

No the problem is Filip. He's just way too old to get properly vested in it. Alex being a teenager adds a ton to the dynamic because it makes it believable that there's still hope even though it has been so long.

bou
Aug 3, 2006



i don't want to derail (hoho, :itsatrainanalogy:) the thread any further, but to me, it's absolutely Naomi who doesn't work on a believable emotional level and leave it at that.

Also i admit, that a pillar of my "Mel is dying" theory is, that Jennifer Connelly must be quite an expensive asset. Losing her would create an interesting power vacuum as she was an expert in so many fields. She basically ran the drat train on her own the whole time.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




MiddleOne posted:

No the problem is Filip. He's just way too old to get properly vested in it. Alex being a teenager adds a ton to the dynamic because it makes it believable that there's still hope even though it has been so long.

bou posted:

i don't want to derail (hoho, :itsatrainanalogy:) the thread any further, but to me, it's absolutely Naomi who doesn't work on a believable emotional level and leave it at that.
You're both right, for sure.

I could see Mel dying because a season where her and Alex get to actually reconcile feels next-to-impossible to get for dramatic television and the likelihood of Alex taking over for Mel seems like a strong and interesting way to continue the series. That said, I really hope that I'm wrong and the writers do keep them both alive because that in itself would actually be quite a swerve for typical cable drama television. Plus I wonder how many eyeballs stick to the screen for Connelly's performance. It's gotta be taken into account how many of those eyeballs are gonna look elsewhere when they don't get this wonderful actress's performance to enjoy. Nothing against all the other actors who are pulling their weight just fine but even with Sean Bean joining, you can't convince me a massive hole in talent wouldn't be felt by losing her.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Thoughts:
- They're good at coming up with cold opens on this show. Lena Hall doing ballet on a train is a nicely surreal image, leaning into fairy tale / children's toys surreal vibe this show likes to play around with.
- Oh, we're not getting Jennifer Connelly back for a bit, are we? That'll be how they solve the problem of telling her story for a bit, plus it allows them to pay for the expanded cast this season.
- has anyone been watching with subtitles? Is it "Oiler Bob" or "Euler Bob"?
- The way Ruth represents Hospitality at the train council meetings always makes me think she's really into Star Trek. The Hospitality uniforms feel like something out of of a train based version of that show.
- Zara joining Hospitality is one of those "oh we really ran out of plot for this character moves", one of several this season. This show has more good actors than it knows what to do with.
- The Schoolteacher survived the revolution. She was a regular feature in the first class quarters, but now we're not seeing so much of the kids or the rich characters, we haven't seen her since.
- Speaking of, this show has a lot of casual queerness. Though I think I misinterpreted the relationship between Alex and Miss Perth: Ice Age.
- this Australian joke was inevitable, but I love it.
- Miss Audrey and the Nightcar make a lot more sense now, in the context of the entire arrangement is basically just Wilson's fetish arrangement, and they retrofitted it for therapeutic purposes under Melanie.
- also apparently the train was in active use before launch. Or the entire nightcar is a carbon copy of Wilfred's favourite club. Could go either way.
- om nom nom. Do you think Miss Audrey plays "here comes the choo choo train" during their sexy times?
- though I guess the question is, how literally does that metaphor get?
- repeating the dancing in the finale, with this song choice, is super super cheesy.

Tunzie
Aug 9, 2008


Regarding Naomi/Melanie and Philip/Alex (spoilers for The Expanse):

The difference for me is that of the two, Naomi had the opportunity to plan for meeting her kid again, and came up with nothing better than to demand ‘trust me’ without explaining anything (like, for example, ‘why did you leave me’, which the show held onto for a later-season reveal). Melanie wasn’t expecting to see Alex, but takes the first real opportunity to explain as best she can what had gone on, and takes steps to be as open and honest as possible, answering Alex’s questions as best she could. It made all the difference for me in how it’s played out here in Snowpiercer.

As an Aussie myself, I’m obligated to wonder how the goggle exchange is going to help out down the line when poo poo hits the fan on all 1,034 cars simultaneously.

ItohRespectArmy
Sep 11, 2019

Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Third ever International Princess champion And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"



calling it now, the ending of the series will be the two australians repopulating australia, leaving us in a brand new type of australia based apocalypse.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

Open Source Idiom posted:

- also apparently the train was in active use before launch. Or the entire nightcar is a carbon copy of Wilfred's favourite club. Could go either way.

Season one established that the train was basically a cruise liner pre-apocalypse through stuff like the old pictures in Melanie's office so there's a good possibility the night car was around then.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




When the engineers are drinking beers at the end I got goosebumps and said out loud "god this show is so good." I love that they properly, truly make the weekly episodes feel like they're worth each week's wait and watch. It's seriously a shame that the art form of weekly television feels like it's died off among the rush to develop prestige programming and it takes Snowpiercer of all shows to remind me what it could be. All it took was a 30 second "here's what some characters did a little later" episode wrap-up.

Anyway, glad to see the Oiler Bob joke pay off with him just being some random person who works with oil. And yes, it's Oiler, not Euler. That's according to subtitles. Also I hate that Euler is pronounced Oiler... I still can't deprogram myself from saying you-ler after 15 years.

The idea that Alex could be friends with LJ is just loving wildly funny to me. I never would have guessed that happening but it actually makes sense when you remember Mel asking Alex if she had any friends her age. I'm curious how many of the connections made at the night car are temporary vs prolonged. It felt like every single one of them was going to end up being a one-night, have-fun fling so it'll be interesting to see if any last.

And yeah, the casual queerness of Snowpiercer is yet-another show "doing it right" in my eyes. This and The Expanse both get it right and I can only hope we'll reach this point in the real world before I die.

Lastly... What the gently caress Wilford. I don't even know what's going on. Does he get off by having people suicide in the tub with him? Is the peach stuff just his need for fresh fruit or is it just one huge eating-out metaphor? I... think I may have been too horrified, followed by laughing too hard, to track the meaning behind that scene.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Wilford wasn't the most stable of people before the apocalypse according to Melanie, him being in a tiny train with people who hang off his every word has made it worse. He really wants to sleep with Audrey again, and she's able to use that desire against him to gain the upper hand - the guy is obsessed with control, so there's some BDSM undertones there. It's nice they're fleshing out Audrey more, she was interesting but under developed last season.

Thoughts:

I liked Bess's new outfit, very Harrison Ford in Blade Runner, suits the noir-y edge she has now.

The pastor is trying to be inclusive and tolerant, but maybe he shouldn't let a Wilford cult use his prayer room.

I think this is the first time they've confirmed train numbers, and there's only just above 2000 people? That's very tight, and fairly close to extinction, unless there are some bunkers or other trains out there.

Fiona Vroom has been promoting the show on her twitter, so maybe we'll see the school teacher later in the season?

I like they didn't have anyone ruin the encyclopedia, but everyone seems to see how important written knowledge is after the apocalypse, even the morally shady characters. It's a pet peeve of mine when you have the trope of people destroying books in post-apocalyptic fiction because "who needs old world knowledge", even if its to show who the bad guys are. So that's a refreshing change.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

I think it was mentioned that there were 3000+ people in the first season. LJ said around 170 froze to death in the war, with an unknown number who died fighting.

Now, we have 2,746.

That's probably enough people to avoid extinction. They can also the chance that there's a sperm bank somewhere preserving genetic diversity.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Melanie was willing to go as low as 400 in suspended animation in the drawers if the train failed, which is very tight.

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DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




OldMemes posted:

unless there are some bunkers or other trains out there.
I am pretty sure somewhere in the show it was confirmed that some rich folks are living underground in bunkers, using geothermal power.

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