Snowpiercer thread - 1,001 pages long - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Snowpiercer thread - 1,001 pages long

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Timespy posted:

If you pause during the intro sequence, it says that one revolution is 133 days, and you can even see the route listed:

I haven't watched the latest episode and am dodging posts to say thank you for finding this. I wonder if they did some math to figure this out, meaning that they discovered the "1 year per lap" plot point of the comic/movie was way too slow for a train that's supposed to survive an ice age.

Mr. Nemo posted:

Nice catch. It still a ridiculous concept though. Seriously, how is this whole thing better than a vault? What's the benefit of going round and round? I guess in a vautl your ventilation could get blocked and then you are hosed, but that's a singular failure point. here you have tracks across half the world, a single strong avalanche everywhere ruins it.

The engine is supposed to be a massive power plant which, I think, runs like a perpetual motion machine that requires the forward drive of the entire train. The momentum that allows it to plow through massive chunks of ice (which gives the train its name but hasn't been in the show yet) is what sticks it to the track. It's not necessarily a safer bet than the bunkers (which do exist as they have been mentioned by this show already) but it was one that lets you still see the world, indulge in a fully functioning ecosystem, allow easily segmented security, and still oppress people!

But the actual answer to this question is that the train's momentum is a metaphor for the momentum of a class based society.

Edit: Oh, hey, they showed it plowing through massive chunks of ice this episode! Neat!

Um. So yeah... LJ's a straight psychopath. Nice.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jun 16, 2020

# ¿ Jun 16, 2020 07:40

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 16:34

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

I tried looking for an english version of the comic when the movie came out and couldn't. I assume by now it's easier to find?

# ¿ Jun 17, 2020 21:08

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

They're only 7 years into the train ride. It takes a long time for a breed of people born of a capitalistic society to understand that wealth is not accumulated by the brightest and wisest minds humanity has to offer. That belief is what's keeping the First Class from being immediately expunged by Melanie. Though don't be surprised if she enlists everyone not in first class to help her take them down by the end of the series, especially if the drawers are meant for humanity's future.

Movie spoiler explanation: The entire society is structured in such a way that the people who do what they are best at will do so. Rich people are best at being served, servants are best at serving, and every person who greases the wheels for the eternal engine are meant to exist to grease those wheels. This structure is a massive algorithm requiring a specific population at each class of society. Wilford isn't actually a genius at this stuff so he couldn't figure out that an equal society is possible at all, he could only figure out what pre-train society had already instilled in him. That's my hazy memory of it, anyway.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 23:07

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Panfilo posted:

I know this takes place a decade before the movie

This is a completely different continuity. Show and movie are disconnected.

quote:

Snowpiercer executive producer and showrunner Graham Manson confirms the TV show is not part of the same continuity as the 2014 film of the same name.

�No, we stand alone. It goes back to one of the post scripts of the graphic novels, I think the third author said there are as many stories to tell on Snowpiercer as there are trains to circle the Earth. I like that, I think...that sounds like a franchise. So we�ll do one here, and then who knows, another train could start up sometime.�

They can nod and wink and misdirect based on what people know about the comic and film, though. They are certainly having fun with that. If at some point Ruth puts a shoe on her head, I'll be giggling like an idiot. What Melanie needs with Miles is of course a hint that they still need children to operate the engine somehow but that could just as easily have been a misdirection.

Man this episode... was loving intense. The little girl staring at what the outside looks like was actually kinda heartbreaking and they picked the best actress for the job. My only fear is they blew the "this could derail the whole train" load a little too early for something that's supposed to be an entire television series but in a world where we can imagine this is the only season the show gets, I'm glad we got it. I'm also glad that we can start, and stop, the sadist cop storyline in the same episode because that would have gotten old really fast, current events notwithstanding. I have to give the show credit for not falling into the same traps of bad television in terms of dragging poo poo out. We still have 4 episodes left and I really have no idea what's next.

Oh, I went to look something up on IMDB and got spoiled on something because the second season is already done. That's exciting!

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jun 23, 2020

# ¿ Jun 23, 2020 00:36

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Mr. Nemo posted:

I guess that Melanie won't be returning, due to budget reasons

Unsure what's making you say this but all signs point to this not being true.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Jun 24, 2020

# ¿ Jun 24, 2020 10:24

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

This show is straight up Game of Thrones on a train to me now. I don't know if it's just because I'm so invested by watching every episode since I still have my qualms about the series (give us a new cool train car, dammit) or if it's deserved but this is now a show I eagerly anticipate each week.

I think it mostly has to do with the fact I can't predict most of the poo poo they end up doing in an episode.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Jun 30, 2020

# ¿ Jun 30, 2020 10:10

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Marmaduke! posted:

Lol at that one guy who ran from third class all the way to first to bring news of the revolucion, like Gendry at the Wall. Meanwhile people nip back and forth to wherever the plot needs like it's nothing. They must've already enabled Fast Travel!

They showed the undercarriage cars in the first episode. They don't explicitly explain their structure but if you put 2 and 2 together, you figure some things out.
1: They don't stop at every car. Layton had to be dragged up some cars to get to it in the first episode.
2: They aren't under First Class. The train is noisy enough without having a transport car go underneath your expensive bunk.
3: Jackboots are probably as out of shape as anyone else on the train. We haven't seen any recreational facilities (because of budget, I'm sure) but "they have a bowling alley" makes me think they would have a track to jog along but who the gently caress knows on Snowpiercer.

With all these facts, I think he was just sprinting from wherever the underground car's last stop is.

Hakkesshu posted:

Unless there's some other twist like there was in the movie, but we will see.

I'm 100% certain they're going to have some massive twist in the finale. You don't pull an episode 1 twist without having a larger finale twist. It's just... not a thing shows like this do anymore.
If that twist helps explain things like Melanie's fascism or the reason the Firsties have to exist is to be seen but I wouldn't doubt it.
Keep in mind that Melanie is trying to essentially keep the existence of God safe. That's the parallel being made here, as it was in the film and, I assume, the original works. Combine the fact that faith-based reasoning for anything is typically seen as stupid in modern television (I won't comment on the real world, here) along with the fact that Melanie is such a nerd she designed the eternal engine's perpetual motion machine to keep everyone alive... there's probably going to be a decently written explanation for her actions as a part of the final twist.

Hey so... why is Strong Boy speaking Mandarin? Did it turn out the vault is also putting people in The Matrix and teaching them things?

Edit: Oh, right, just to take a stab at it... the Firsties have to exist to give the other classes "something to do" ("we run this train") because idle hands are the devil's tools. Originally they existed for Wilford to gently caress and socialize with, at least that much was confirmed in this episode. I mean, either that or it's just another form of control. It's a bit hand-wavy but easy to understand and just be like "sure whatever move on" with.

poo poo, this show got me mega-posting huh?

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 7, 2020

# ¿ Jul 7, 2020 02:41

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Combat Pretzel posted:

Come to think of it, of what has been shown of the lifestyle of the classes, the engine seems the only place that's actually "normal". Bunch of engineer nerds in hoodies or overalls.

I'm pretty sure Second is your average middle class lifestyle. Firsties do no work, Thirdies do grunt-to-lightly-skilled work, Tailies do literal poo poo work, while the Seconds are the skilled workforce. We barely see them or their quarters (Jinju and the nurse, for example) because they're pretty plain and make for less interesting set designs.

I almost want to list out every set that exists in this show just to get an idea of the balance of what we've been shown. Seems like a fun practice.

Edit: gently caress it, let's try. A few of these locationally have to be guesses. Most sets seem to have a hallway or alcove connected (most of Third Class is alcoves) so just assume those are included with the room.
Engine -> Engineer Quarters -> Hospitality -> First Class Dining -> First Class Dorm -> Sushi Car -> Hospital -> Drawers -> Second Class Dorms (2) -> Meat Car -> Jail -> Night Car -> Third Class Dorms -> School (2) -> Third Class Restaurant -> Janitorial -> Third Class Commercial (2?) -> Showers -> Tail (2)
Unspecified and multiples: Electrical Breaker Car, Security Checkpoints, Underground Transport, Below Deck Maintenance

So that makes about... 27 train-car-sized sets (with some being double-sized) for Season 1 thus far. You know, it's a lot more impressive when you lay it out like that.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jul 7, 2020

# ¿ Jul 7, 2020 22:25

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

oh but seriously I posted:

Won't they crash into them on the next go round?

If you think they designed that train not to have a failsafe for ejected wagons, you greatly underestimate Melanie Cavill's design!
Also the train is called Snowpiercer. Pretty sure if it's designed to smash through the debris of a post-apocalyptic ice world, it can smash through a train car.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2020 03:14

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Do you think they animated the very ending because they ran out of CG budget or is it just a really cool throwback to the comic? I wanna say it's the latter but all things considered I wouldn't be surprised if it was the former.
EDIT: It's the latter. It bookends the entire season, the first ep started this way as well.

Also this ep had the best line in the entire series. (Sorry for the 16mb gif but I can't spoiler mp4s)

I had to pause and just laugh for a solid minute.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jul 13, 2020

# ¿ Jul 13, 2020 11:00

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Laughing Zealot posted:

Only thing missing in the finale was Sean Bean actually appearing.

To be completely honest I was ready and waiting for it because IMDB already spoiled that he's in 11 episodes but it turned out the 11th was just his uncredited voice work in the 3rd episode when Melanie is editing his speech.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2020 20:38

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

xerxus posted:

It sucks that they were so close to finishing the second season.

You think that's bad, Fargo Season 4 was a couple of weeks away from being done and that show was supposed to come out a month after wrap. It is still my most anticipated show of the year and I'm so incredibly anxious over how long the wait will be to see it.

RYYSZLA posted:

by episode 3 I was just checked out.

I want it to be for me, because all indications say this is gonna be a mr robot / the wire / prestige-drama-style overarching story which is my kind of poo poo.

It's prestige-lite. It has most of the trappings of a proper prestige show but it doesn't reach those heights due to some loose writing and looser camera work. The acting is there, the plotting eventually gets there (you should keep watching, the show gets better as it goes and you are at the exact point where it begins to get interesting) but the entire package as a whole is "high potential that couldn't be reached" while still being an above-average, entertaining production.

SpaceAceJase posted:

Did anyone mention how Melanie looked out the left side window with binoculars and saw the front of his train coming toward them?

Seems like the effects department wasn't on the same page as the director

I thought this was weird at first but if you notice the angle of attack on the incoming train's rail line (shown when the satellite imagery occasionally pops up) the train is actually at an angle that, more or less, she is seeing it almost head on. If the front of Snowpiercer is degree 0 and she's looking out the left window at a -135 degree angle, she should be seeing Big Alice head-on before it finishes the curve of track it's on to meet up with Snowpiercer's.

Flint_Paper posted:

Season 2: I'm really excited to see Sean Bean's Wilford, but I was kinda hoping that the drawers were keeping Wilford alive somehow. Like the whole train was a 40k Dreadnaught

This was my guess and good on the show for not being predictable (one of the reasons I stuck with it, I dislike highly predictable shows) but at the same time, it would be weird for Melanie to lie about his death if he were literally on the train. She could have saved her own life by just saying he's in a drawer. By insisting he's dead (when, in her mind, he is likely dead. The supply train is still a surprise to them) whether she's lying or not, we're assured he isn't nearby.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jul 14, 2020

# ¿ Jul 14, 2020 21:59

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

cheese sandwich posted:

I love how just casting Sean Bean means he�s probably going to get pinched

Was it ever explained why first class still has so much power and influence? Is it just because hospitality and the jackboots like palling around with people that used to be important?

As of last year, the Sean Bean meme is dead.

Various articles on the internet from 2019 posted:

In a new interview with The Sun, Bean said his infamous history of dying onscreen has changed the way he considers agreeing to a film or television role. The actor has started turning down roles in which his character will die, but not out of an ego-driven desire for more screen time

As for the first class's power and influence, it's purely money driven. They bought their tickets, the money was put towards the work to build the entirety of the train, they are now simply riding out their investment. Second and Third, also having paid but not quite as much, are from the world and belief that this was enough for them to deserve what they had. It took a first class passenger murdering two non-firsties and clearly getting away with it for people to want an uprising. For the prior 7 years, nobody really cared because they were alive and also not in the tail. Oh God I'm sorry for getting political here but it's a serious parallel: It honestly makes sense when you consider that America managed 8 years with W. Bush after 9/11 without uprisings like Occupy, #MeToo, or BLM. It takes a spark and the train didn't have one until now.

RYYSZLA posted:

The "loose" camerawork is really putting me off. Every now and then it looks like it was shot by the C-or-D-unit instead of the A guys

The interesting part of this fact is that when the A-team as work, it's very, very obvious and very, very good and fun.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jul 15, 2020

# ¿ Jul 15, 2020 01:47

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

RYYSZLA posted:

Whichever goon told me to skip 4 and go to 5, and watch from there if I wasnt enjoying the sort of janky "wannabe-prestige" atmosphere of the show, you were 100% correct, the final 4 episodes are incredible.

side effects of not-yet-perfected cryostasis?

Woah, nobody told you to skip any episodes though!

... Well I guess if you really hated the first three then yeah... the fourth is pretty useless...

# ¿ Jul 17, 2020 08:27

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

One Nut Wonder posted:

I can't believe Ruth was Martha on the Americans. It was bugging me for so long, and I just couldn't figure it out. Always check IMDB, I guess.

Except don't always because then you'll be spoiled on season 2 of Snowpiercer and create incorrect expectations of the finale of season 1.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2020 07:56

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

I'm really hyped for this. The show was a solid 8/10 for me and there's not much else coming out soon, I'm so ready for Sean Bean not dying

Edit: Reminding myself of things by reading some of the thread and...

ilmucche posted:

And it took only 5ish years for people to treat Wilford like a literal deity, it's bonkers and I'm surprised more people even in first and second haven't gone mad.

...this show is slightly prophetic.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jan 25, 2021

# ¿ Jan 25, 2021 07:20

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Open Source Idiom posted:

I really liked the pilot, and wanted to like a lot of the following episodes, but it lost me almost immediately.

Yeah it doesn't really hit its stride until halfway through. But once it hits that stride, boy what a stride it is.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2021 12:58

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

xerxus posted:

Are they starting to bring up the idea that the weather is changing?

Spoiler for the film:
In the middle of the movie they bring this idea up. The fact that a proper, singular snowflake can be witnessed was the indication that the Earth was warming back to normal. What it means for the show is that it's definitely not in the canonical timeline, unless you really wanna convince me that it took people on the train 8 years to notice the snow again.

Also, I went back to look at the image of where the show is supposed to be on the timeline of the film and comics, and despite a bunch of articles stating that "TNT Released this image" the image itself is only ever branded as being from a titan-comics.com which is certainly not TNT's website and most probably just some dude's inspired idea of where the show fits in.

Open Source Idiom posted:

New episode! New theme arrangement!

This threw me off. It's good but I admittedly liked the old one better.

Open Source Idiom posted:

Okay I binged the rest of Season One you were absolutely right. I really enjoyed that. Some reservations, and I wish the show wouldn't trend towards melodramatic plots, but it's pretty good overall. Love the set design too.

Yeah it's not AAA television but it's definitely AA television and in the coming months, we're gonna need it.

As for my thoughts on this first episode? Fuckin' strong episode! Cinematography, acting, writing, music, CG, storyboarding... it's all up there. I'm always wary of the "parent trying to turn the child" plot since another very good show currently airing has the same thing happening and I kinda hate it, so I'm glad it looks like they're just gonna get over it quick instead of having it take over the whole season.

OH I am extremely excited for the crazy doctors, since one of them is the weird numbers nerd from House of Cards, where he was unfortunately wasted on the worst seasons. I hope there is more weird poo poo to see coming from Big Alice!

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jan 27, 2021

# ¿ Jan 27, 2021 05:52

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Open Source Idiom posted:

Huh, I've always thought the show's CG is a bit weak. The air leaking from Melanie's suit, some of the sequence where she's escaping from the train's wheels... the exterior shots look much improved over last year's though.

It's the exterior shots that I'm talking about. Those are the important ones and the ones I'll just gorge myself on. Yeah, the smaller CG stuff is not particularly well done but it's way more forgivable for a show at this level of budget.

Khanstant posted:

Excited for this new season, gonna wait a bit before jumping in though. Last season I would've gone nuts if I had to wait for episodes.

To its credit, this show is actually built to be weekly rather than built for possibly not being weekly. As such, this first episode has a start and end that perfectly encapsulates what makes a good television episode. As much as I love The Expanse, I find myself constantly going "OH COME ON I WANT MORE" at the end of almost every episode. Meanwhile Wandavision straight up pretends to be a weekly show despite being unbearable as one.

I'm being reminded of what I enjoyed so much about Snowpiercer's first season and I'm just getting more excited for this one. The complete inability to guess what's going to happen next and the fact that poo poo happens so fast is really, really satisfying.

Edit: Just correcting since this thread is slow and people might read this - Wandavision got much more bearable once episode 4 hit.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jan 30, 2021

# ¿ Jan 28, 2021 09:56

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

God this episode was so good. I looked it up and it appears that filming between season 1 and 2 actually had a massive break, which means they were able to look back, assess what they made, and do better on the second try. 2 episodes in and I think they learned their lesson. There's been absolutely nothing so far this season that has made me roll my eyes or wish they had done something different. It's... just really great television now!

Also lol at the W hand signal basically being this shows parallel to a nazi salute. It looks so dumb when people do it.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2021 04:39

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- I've no idea how to read the bathtub scene. A suggestion of the film's prominent use of situational sexuality, or just weirdness

So there's a few things about the tub scene:
Firstly, Big Alice's passengers are starving. One way to get some food is by cooking some human. I'm absolutely certain there's cannibal poo poo going on in that train. Who best to kill? Those with little to provide. Hospitality is super useless and this guy is the reason Snowpiercer got to learn a bit about Big Alice's situation, aka "weak points." Getting rid of him is an easy win.
Secondly, by having him do it in the tub, it makes for easier cleanup. Plus it seems like Jupiter really likes blood water. Jupiter is a good dog. Anything for Jupiter.
Finally, as for Mister Wilford himself getting into the tub, I viewed it as a power play to keep the conviction of his loyal subject. He's instilled in his most loyal passengers the idea that he is a God. We are reminded of this by the Faith car. If he just sat outside the tub and said "cut yourself" he might have some hesitation and resistance from his subject. If he gets into the tub naked with his subject, at his most vulnerable, he's essentially saying "you cannot do me any harm, for I am your God." It helped Kevin keep the faith right up to the end.

The thing that's weird to me is the fact they needed a suicide warning on the show when... the guy didn't really commit suicide. He was 100% coerced into it. If he didn't do it himself, Wilford would have. poo poo's just straight murder to me but I suppose some folks might not see it that way.

In any case Sean Bean rules.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2021 13:29

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Ur Getting Fatter posted:

I�m not sure if it just wasn�t shown, but there really doesn�t seem to have been that big of a shakeup on room assignments after the revolution.

The fact that Layton can just get a huge first class room for himself when there should be like 10 other people at least living there is kind of weird.

It's either a joke, an oversight, or (hopefully) just a mildly nuanced commentary about how revolutions' winners can still succumb to power without realizing it and how it will come back to bite them in the rear end.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2021 09:32

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

OldMemes posted:

Isn't it Icy Bob?

We have yet to meet oiler bob. I'll laugh if oiler bob is just someone named bob who works with the engine oil.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2021 00:32

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Open Source Idiom posted:

Episode Three Random Thoughts:
- This Breaksman characterisation is kinda sudden, right? They're basically a rival gang of Wilfred fanatics. I don't remember them being like that last season. They spent all last season's finale "mourning"? gently caress off. That's ugly retroactive continuity.

- The Breachmen were given a proper "mysterious and untrustworthy" air somewhere in the first 4 (most forgettable) episodes of Season 1. You were supposed to suspect one of them was the murderer.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- I broke up with my girlfriend offscreen, remember? That's why we're never going to see her or her aquarium ever again!

- Yeah I hope they go back to the aquarium despite the actress not coming back for Season 2.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- MY WIFE, NOT APPEARING IN THIS ANECDOTE. I'm half convinced his wife is dead.

Mokinokaro posted:

He alluded to his family last season too. I'm pretty sure them not appearing is just a budget thing.

- My bet is that Mike O'Malley's family is, more likely than not, dead and it's gonna be a sad coping mechanism twist at some point. (The fact I'm guessing this is contradictory to another point I'm making later in this post so Occam's Razor his family is just a soft backstory to keep his character viewed as a family man.)

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Sean Bean is better in this role than I've seen him in years. Acting everyone off the show -- though he's not shared a proper scene with Ruth yet. I hope they don't kill him this season.
- They're absolutely killing him this seasons.

- Sean Bean won't die because it's already been stated that he is no longer taking roles where he dies. If he did die, then all that news about him trying to avoid the meme was a bigger misdirection than Star Trek: Discovery's fake actor name trick.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Also? Alex dies this season. Absolutely. Calling it. She turns on Wilfred, and he kills her, and this cements Ruth's turn towards Melanie and helps to rebuild their friendship.
- Or she goes off the deep end and it's a big acting showcase for Alison Wright, but I find that seriously doubtful.

- Alex could die but I feel like bringing Josie back to life severely increased the safety of all named characters. Also the "character you thought was dead is actually alive but you only get to spend one episode/season with them so status quo/severe characte depression can ensue" trope seems like something Snowpiercer would avoid. Keep in mind that Snowpiercer has been phenomenal because it has consistently avoided tropes and obvious writing. I cannot guess what will happen next and I love it.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- Most important question, to me: Who's Melanie going to talk to for the next four episodes? And will Ben and Havier gently caress? They're clearly loving right? I choose to believe the two of them and MILFord are a uniquely stable polyamorous trio, where two thirds of the couple tries to pretend the other third doesn't exist, because it's kind of awkward.

Havier is both visibly distressed by, and actively jealous of, Melanie's relationship with Ben. There has been zero hint of anything else being the case, as fun as it would be.

GABA ghoul posted:

Makes me really worried about it getting cancelled though. It seems like it's very expensive to make while not being very popular and Netflix loves to axe shows after season 3.

They renewed Season 3 in like November or December I think. They know they've got something good.

OldMemes posted:

The people in the Tail can at least sleep without Wilford giving long speeches through the speakers in the bunks!

If season 3 has a proper ending, it could work as a three season show - Legion did that really well, so it can be done. Scheduling Jennifer Connolly and Sean Bean seems like it'd be hard, and Daveed Diggs is getting bigger, so a well done three seasons could end fine.

Snowpiercer's hospitality would go on the PA system daily which, to the tail, was a reminder about what the rest of the train had but the tail did not.
Also I don't agree Legion did their 3 seasons well at all because each season was so different from one another, it left people with tonal whiplash. It's still very good that it ended, though, because Season 2 made it clear that there wasn't going to be enough thought put into the show to keep it running very long anyway.

Mokinokaro posted:

The graphic novels are very much their own thing though the show has taken a few elements from them.

Very glad to hear this. I really enjoy that all the mediums Snowpiercer is being presented on have their own story to tell but with similar brushes.

As for all the comments about the acting, I honestly don't think any one person on the show is acting at, or below, par. They're all doing a phenomenal job. Sean Bean fits right in.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Feb 14, 2021

# ¿ Feb 14, 2021 06:00

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

bou posted:

So far, Mel-Alex-Wilford is miles ahead of Naomi-Filip-Marco.

Agreed. I can't quite explain how or why but Naomi's relationship with Filip is just so much more "don't care" to me than Mel's with Alex.

My guess is they've given me too few reasons to care about Naomi as a character.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Feb 15, 2021

# ¿ Feb 15, 2021 12:41

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

MiddleOne posted:

No the problem is Filip. He's just way too old to get properly vested in it. Alex being a teenager adds a ton to the dynamic because it makes it believable that there's still hope even though it has been so long.

bou posted:

i don't want to derail (hoho, :itsatrainanalogy:) the thread any further, but to me, it's absolutely Naomi who doesn't work on a believable emotional level and leave it at that.

You're both right, for sure.

I could see Mel dying because a season where her and Alex get to actually reconcile feels next-to-impossible to get for dramatic television and the likelihood of Alex taking over for Mel seems like a strong and interesting way to continue the series. That said, I really hope that I'm wrong and the writers do keep them both alive because that in itself would actually be quite a swerve for typical cable drama television. Plus I wonder how many eyeballs stick to the screen for Connelly's performance. It's gotta be taken into account how many of those eyeballs are gonna look elsewhere when they don't get this wonderful actress's performance to enjoy. Nothing against all the other actors who are pulling their weight just fine but even with Sean Bean joining, you can't convince me a massive hole in talent wouldn't be felt by losing her.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2021 01:13

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

When the engineers are drinking beers at the end I got goosebumps and said out loud "god this show is so good." I love that they properly, truly make the weekly episodes feel like they're worth each week's wait and watch. It's seriously a shame that the art form of weekly television feels like it's died off among the rush to develop prestige programming and it takes Snowpiercer of all shows to remind me what it could be. All it took was a 30 second "here's what some characters did a little later" episode wrap-up.

Anyway, glad to see the Oiler Bob joke pay off with him just being some random person who works with oil. And yes, it's Oiler, not Euler. That's according to subtitles. Also I hate that Euler is pronounced Oiler... I still can't deprogram myself from saying you-ler after 15 years.

The idea that Alex could be friends with LJ is just loving wildly funny to me. I never would have guessed that happening but it actually makes sense when you remember Mel asking Alex if she had any friends her age. I'm curious how many of the connections made at the night car are temporary vs prolonged. It felt like every single one of them was going to end up being a one-night, have-fun fling so it'll be interesting to see if any last.

And yeah, the casual queerness of Snowpiercer is yet-another show "doing it right" in my eyes. This and The Expanse both get it right and I can only hope we'll reach this point in the real world before I die.

Lastly... What the gently caress Wilford. I don't even know what's going on. Does he get off by having people suicide in the tub with him? Is the peach stuff just his need for fresh fruit or is it just one huge eating-out metaphor? I... think I may have been too horrified, followed by laughing too hard, to track the meaning behind that scene.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2021 13:33

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

OldMemes posted:

unless there are some bunkers or other trains out there.

I am pretty sure somewhere in the show it was confirmed that some rich folks are living underground in bunkers, using geothermal power.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2021 00:20

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Open Source Idiom posted:

In season 3 news: Archie Panjabi's joining the show as a regular for Season 3, and the character's meant to be a top secret role, which I think suggests we're moving beyond the confines of the two trains. I wouldn't normally spoiler news like that, but it's pretty easy to read some future events from the show off the implication of the casting.

I also assume that we're going to get a train decoupling at some point. Having two separate trains would be a pretty good set-up for the show.

That's not how I read the end of the film. Doesn't the symbolic appearance by the polar bear right at the end of the film suggest that there's still hope?

No: It suggests that the kids get eaten and humanity goes extinct.
I'm only half joking, though. Yes, that is what it suggests.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2021 04:22

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Open Source Idiom posted:

I thought the problem was that Snowpiercer's battery had run out of power, and needed time to recharge. And now the two trains can't disconnect because of the fused border cars (and because too many people in key positions are invested in keeping them connected, since Snowpiercer could easily sacrifice a train car and keep going).

It's this.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2021 13:08

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Z the IVth posted:

Doesn't Snowpiercer also need the spare parts and supplies from Big Alice as well? They mentioned genetic stocks to regrow their cows.

That's the post-connection impetus to keep the trains together but initially Snowpiercer tried to outrun Big Alice. They'd rather be disconnected than connected. The only reason Mel forced them connected was to prevent Snowpiercer's death.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2021 04:38

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

UltraShame posted:

Hey DaveKap, who are the stabberinos in the last episode?

I don't expect a Mr Robot level of novella Post, but let us know what you think. (I have no idea)

lmao I kinda hate that I have any reputation because of my Mr Robot disappointment posts. I honestly have no loving clue what's going on. I can... type my thoughts as I think them, I suppose. I just finished the episode.

Near the end of the episode I was thinking "gently caress, this is the worst episode of the season" because I don't care about Till's internal issues, I don't care about the preacher who is definitely trying to usurp Layton while also being a Wilford disciple (and I hope we're all wrong about that because this show has, if anything, been phenomenal at subverting expectations [in a good way, not the Mr. Robot kind of way,]) I've thought since season 1 that Audrey was a weak character and still do now because she's primarily a "holds all her cards so close that not even the viewer knows wtf her motives or expectations are," and I really hate body horror so every scene with Josie is wince-city for me.

But despite that, it's not all bad. I never thought I would hear "Because I Got High" again after Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back left theaters. It was actually pretty welcome.
I was rooting for Pike to not die because Steven Ogg rules and seeing him just loving act this episode was a treat. Though I'm kinda sad that Layton feels the need to keep Pike so under the radar that he has to staple his head instead of giving him proper health care. Poor Pike.
If you didn't completely digest the subtext of Alex and her friend talking about the jealousy felt by a book character, maybe go listen to that again. Poor ladies just can't admit their feelings to each other.
It's nice to see that Icy Bob is just a big ol' teddy bear of a guy. I feel like brainless mutants don't really belong in this show. I do wonder if he's only shown that side of himself to Josie and if everyone else thinks he is a brainless mutant. That'd be a fun thing to spring on people later.
Not really sad to see Terrance go. I feel like his character has been kinda wasted because he's never really done anything to positively elevate the train while uninterestingly playing the heel role. I also feel like he could've chewed up some scenes if he was written better but we didn't get any of it this season. Bye Terrance, you died in a pretty cool way!
It was very interesting to see how well Ruth was handling the truth that Melanie lied to her for hope's sake, now that she's in the same position. Ruth character growth is a very nice thing to see.

And then the end of the episode hit and I was back on board for the ride. If you've seen Breaking Bad, you may have had some similar vibes to the Gliding Over All episode; one of my favorite scenes in Breaking Bad (which was based off Goodfellas, btw.) It was short but it was fun. And we get to keep Boki!

So, who are the stabberinos? Your guess is as good as mine. Pretty sure they're all just a part of the preacher's flock, it's not like he only serves the Breachmen. It's cute to see that one of them opened up the Breachman door just in time for Layton to be able to rush in. Perhaps their ease of access is a hint? Or they just got codes from Wilford. Or maybe they're all janitorial so they have all the access and they abandoned Terrance because they're now loyal to the preacher? There's a few ways it can go.

Welp, I didn't think I'd write this much. So now that I've digested more while writing this, what's going on? Overall it seems like this is the inflection point for Layton's leadership, a point which Wilford is trying to exploit. Pike's doing things for Layton he doesn't want to, Till feels like she's not being taken seriously, Ruth feels like she's being ignored, and Layton's living and eating nice while Tailies are still in the Tail. Not that Wilford should know all of this as it's happening but he's pulling off his plan at the perfect time. Everyone knows the Breachmen are suspected of mutilating a Tailie, everyone knows Breachmen are loyal to Wilfred, so if the Breachmen all end up dead, everyone knows it's Layton's fault. It's hard to know if Wilford's being a secret genius whose previous failures were all according to plan or if he's just lucky because he's tried multiple things and this is the first one that might work. To be honest, in a proper war, both sides get their jabs in, so this just being a Wilford plan that works is fine without it being a master plan, it's just really amazing he timed it so perfectly.

So... yeah, that makes sense. Destabilize Snowpiercer by breaking down the population's trust in Layton. Blame can't be placed on Wilford because the murdered are his most loyal followers. While everyone hates their current leader, usher yourself in through religious means while the famous, popular, beautiful peacekeeper of the middle class, Audrey, is by your side. I don't know if it was on purpose but I think Wilford let himself be submissive with Audrey early to make her think she wouldn't be under his control once she was invited to Big Alice, which is a decent play against her character's inability to be transparent to the audience. We have no idea why she's staying with him now other than "because he is good at controlling her." Is she long-conning him? Maybe! Hard to know!

Final thoughts? Layton being brought down means Melanie's "reputation rehabilitation" might land her back in a leadership position again. I look forward to getting her back.

gently caress. Mr. Robot novella. Sorry, thread! (If it wasn't obvious, this is probably my favorite show of the year. That's the only way I make posts this big.)

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 24, 2021

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 02:35

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Ha, thanks. Yeah, janitorial switching to being preacher goons seems the most likely route to me, especially when you consider Terrance on his high throne is way more abandonable than a preacher with a teacup.

Another wrinkle in everything is Josie's existence straining Layton's relationship with his baby mama. Josie's message may now be perceived as being false, so is she being fed false information or is she providing false information? Trust gets shaken through all of this. There actually may be too many moving parts to this situation; I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of them just get outright dropped or resolved in the first few minutes of the next episode.

This is just reminding me of how much this show loves its grey areas. drat what a good show.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Feb 24, 2021

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 03:41

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

OH I finally remembered something that I failed to mention a couple pages back. I think there was some discussion about how the sets are designed and little attention to detail things. One of the things I noticed was a shot of First Class where the chandelier was swaying back and forth. There wasn't any turbulence via the plot, it was just ambient swaying because they're on a train. I feel like an average production team wouldn't even bother with that.

Open Source Idiom posted:

- I just can't believe that Layton would immediately work to maintain the previous order, despite Wilford's reappearance. Why is first class still a thing???

If you look at all the first class scenes where Layton is eating or chilling out (not during any special events) you'll see some poorly dressed folks around. First class isn't exclusive, even though it might seem that way.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 06:51

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

The bees were failing but there was never a confirmed collapse, as far as I know.
Alex and Australian might be a couple and we don't know it because they haven't shown them being affectionate yet. It's hard to say.
The two Australians are definitely into each other.
I forgot to point out another nice thing was Ruth being remorseful for the poo poo she would pull in the Tail back in the old days. It's amazing how they grew her in a single episode.
Most of Big Alice is definitely just full on afraid of Wilford. Everyone's afraid to talk during book club specifically because they don't want to accidentally give the wrong opinion.
Some of overthrowing the first class was eat the rich, some was proper distribution and "One Train" ideology. You kinda have to have a little of both to rally all the troops.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 23:14

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Comrade Fakename posted:

Alex is meant to be like 15 years old or something, the Australian lady is in her 20s (at least), they�re not going to have them get in a relationship you weirdos.

The character is 17, the actress is 20, she's Big Alice's main engineer and the only person who has the guts to talk back to Wilford, albeit sparingly. I don't think it's weird to speculate a relationship exists when the show has made it clear she is jealous towards Emilia's new friendship, especially after she pulled Wilford's ear to get her over to Snowpiercer for a night out.

Does it mean they are definitely going that route? Of course not. They could easily just be friends. That doesn't mean it can't be something more, though. Whatever the state of their friendship is, it's going to be a plot point.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2021 07:19

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

OldMemes posted:

You know that's how young women tend to talk to each other nowadays, right?

As an adult male in his mid-thirties I think I can confidently state I am not an expert on how teenage women talk to each other and will never claim to be. I'm simply refusing to disavow a possible relationship directly after an episode where Alex made it apparently she is jealous of Emilia gaining a new friend. My understanding of humans on television is that when your friend gets a new friend, you don't get jealous... but if you get jealous when your friend gets a new person to flirt with, that means you, as a human on television, had feelings for the friend.

OldMemes posted:

I really like that I feel like I can't predict where this show will go. Its always refreshing when that happens.

It's one of the biggest positives of credit I keep giving the show when describing it to my friends who are still refusing to start watching it. "You basically never guess what's going to happen next." I've been so sick of media that's obvious, this show's a godsend for me.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2021 13:08

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Layton's weakness is to a lot of other character's strength. This is feeling more like an ensemble show now, especially with Mel gone and Layton just sitting pretty on a tightrope. But yeah if it wasn't obvious enough, Layton's supposed to be weak right now so that the viewing audience has a real sense of "he's going to lose all his support."

# ¿ Feb 27, 2021 23:40

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

As much as I'd agree with you, the series so far has tried to softly push the idea that nobody is 100% good or evil/right or wrong on the train. Plus, being an accidental parent will make you do crazy things which, combined with having to invoke martial law so Snowpiercer doesn't get invaded by an enemy, can easily lead to loving up.

I'm not the kind to forgive bad writing on a show but this seems pretty "realistic" to me. At least it's not as bad as a simple "absolute power corrupts absolutely" explanation.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2021 00:56

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 16:34

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

I ... haven't felt the need to see the next episode of a weekly show this strongly in a very long time. I honestly can't even remember. I'm going to feel loving lost until the next episode hits.

That episode was fantastic. Can't knock a single thing about it. I especially loved when Mel went for the high five and hit nothing.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2021 12:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Snowpiercer thread - 1,001 pages long

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