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Vikar Jerome
Nov 26, 2013

I believe Emmanuelle is shit, though Emmanuelle 2, Emmanuelle '77 and Goodbye, Emmanuelle may be very good movies.

Necrothatcher posted:

I wrote up some longer-form thoughts if anyone's interested: https://pixelhunted.wordpress.com/2...rt-ii-ps4-2020/

this is good. also lol checking out your arcade reviews got me annoyed theres no decent arcades up here in the north, other than maybe sheffield video game museum but that hardly counts.

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Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






Fun Shoe

Vikar Jerome posted:

this is good. also lol checking out your arcade reviews got me annoyed theres no decent arcades up here in the north, other than maybe sheffield video game museum but that hardly counts.

The Arcade Clubs in Bury and Leeds are worth a visit!

https://www.arcadeclub.co.uk/games/

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Mulva posted:

Hi, when someone starts out with "This is one of the best games ever made", the only places you can go are "I agree" or "This is how you are wrong".

I'm all for everyone having their own opinion and I don't even expect everyone to like it, but I have been really unimpressed with most people's criticisms of the game to say the least.

Vikar Jerome
Nov 26, 2013

I believe Emmanuelle is shit, though Emmanuelle 2, Emmanuelle '77 and Goodbye, Emmanuelle may be very good movies.

Necrothatcher posted:

The Arcade Clubs in Bury and Leeds are worth a visit!

https://www.arcadeclub.co.uk/games/

looks like i got post lockdown visit planned.

Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 30, 2020

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





Phew, done. That was really, really great. Need to compile my thoughts but I really don't get the suggestions that the ending is bleak or hopeless. I thought it was quite the opposite.

lordfrikk
Mar 11, 2010

casual lamer


In one of the interviews they mentioned some of the things that changed/didn't make it into the game (though I'm sure there were tens if not hundreds more). Spoilered just in case, don't read if you haven't finished the game!


Joel had girlfriend, Ellie goes to the Seraphite island, Ellie kills Abby in the end, during the farm sequence there's a whole side thing where Ellie goes and kills a boar, this was even mo-capped and stuff, Joel says Sarah before he dies instead of not saying anything

morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012


lordfrikk posted:

In one of the interviews they mentioned some of the things that changed/didn't make it into the game (though I'm sure there were tens if not hundreds more). Spoilered just in case, don't read if you haven't finished the game!


Joel had girlfriend, Ellie goes to the Seraphite island, Ellie kills Abby in the end, during the farm sequence there's a whole side thing where Ellie goes and kills a boar, this was even mo-capped and stuff, Joel says Sarah before he dies instead of not saying anything


the only one of those I'd be interested in is Ellie going to the island

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

I feel like with 2LOU ND might be the first studio to make a horse mechanic that even approaches the level of quality of Agro from Shadow of the Colossus. It only took 15 years.

I greatly prefer the video game superhorse that loyally tries to follow close to you but not get in your way and doesn't have a mind of its own like Agro, personally. I was glad it stayed largely the same but could jump barbed wire from a standstill.

I think this game's a lot better played blind. It's probably not gonna get people as well in the future with all the spoilers are out and the story looks dumb in the cliffnotes version.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





morallyobjected posted:

the only one of those I'd be interested in is Ellie going to the island

I don't see what that would've added though. The Seraphites have nothing to do with Ellie's story, beyond her encountering them a few times because they happen to be where she is.

A big part of what made Abby's segment so interesting is that she had her own poo poo to deal with beyond Ellie's obsessive vendetta. If Ellie was dealing with that same conflict at the same time it would've taken from that.



Also holy lol looking at the spoiler thread the leaks were even dumber than I thought (and mostly seem to have been guesswork based on the trailers).

morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012


stev posted:

I don't see what that would've added though. The Seraphites have nothing to do with Ellie's story, beyond her encountering them a few times because they happen to be where she is.

A big part of what made Abby's segment so interesting is that she had her own poo poo to deal with beyond Ellie's obsessive vendetta. If Ellie was dealing with that same conflict at the same time it would've taken from that.


I'm not saying I think the game needed it--just out of all of those, it sounded like the only one that could have maybe went somewhere.

I thought maybe when I was early in the game that Abby was already on the island and Ellie would have to get out there and find her, possibly having to momentarily fight against a common enemy in the process

I think what we got was way better than that though

acksplode
May 17, 2004





stev posted:

I don't see what that would've added though. The Seraphites have nothing to do with Ellie's story, beyond her encountering them a few times because they happen to be where she is.

The idea was to let you see the Seraphites at peace in their typical daily routine, to help flesh them out. It would've been a nice thing to include somehow. As it stands TLOU2 only gives us secondhand glimpses of Seraphite culture from the inside, through dialogue with Lev and Yara, and the written prayers you can read at shrines. But yeah it sounds like they couldn't find a way to justify including it in Ellie's half of the story, so cutting it was probably the right call.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Returning to my replay of HZD is funny after playing this because the human enemies just seem so dumb lol.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






Fun Shoe

This is the first time I've read reviews for a game in a while and man most of the ones for this have the point sailing blissfully right over the critics' heads. The Vice Magazine review claims that:

"Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance."

uhm

Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 30, 2020

Anti-Hero
Feb 26, 2004


Necrothatcher posted:

This is the first time I've read reviews for a game in a while and man most of the ones for this have the point sailing blissfully right over the critics' heads. The Vice Magazine review claims that:

"Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance."

uhm

Ellie does, but do we ever have Abby reflect on hers? I just beat this the other day so my recollection may be flawed. Definitely lining up an NG+ play through.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






Fun Shoe

Anti-Hero posted:

Ellie does, but do we ever have Abby reflect on hers? I just beat this the other day so my recollection may be flawed. Definitely lining up an NG+ play through.

Yes, Abby walks away after the theater.

Anti-Hero
Feb 26, 2004


Necrothatcher posted:

Yes, Abby walks away after the theater.

Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc.

Am I missing anything?

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Anti-Hero posted:

Am I missing anything?

That's what the Vice author should have asked

emoticon
May 8, 2007


So FILMCRITHULK does game reviews now, and he reviewed TLOU2, which is worth a read if you have like an hour and enjoy over verbose film school analysis applied to a video game:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/last-of-us-part-38722226

He makes a lot of points about video game violence that I made, perhaps in a more abrasive and less cogent way, in the other thread that shall not be named

Vikar Jerome
Nov 26, 2013

I believe Emmanuelle is shit, though Emmanuelle 2, Emmanuelle '77 and Goodbye, Emmanuelle may be very good movies.

he's always done game reviews, i remember when he did mass effect 3 and i saw people losing their minds over him liking it as is, pre-extended cut.

acksplode
May 17, 2004





Anti-Hero posted:

Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc.

Am I missing anything?

It's definitely on her mind, but she doesn't talk about it. I don't think it's a coincidence that Abby reconsiders her loyalty to the WLF and hatred of the Seraphites after she finally gets the revenge she's been fixated on for years. Owen and Mel both call her out directly. It has something to do with why she chooses to help Lev and Yara, she goes to help them after waking up from a dream where she sees their bodies in place of her father's back at St. Mary's. She fears she's no better than Joel if she lets them die, she fears she's already as bad as Joel and needs to redeem herself. I think she's able to walk away from Ellie because she's processed things enough that she can accept what Ellie took from her as the consequences for her actions.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





One thing that bugged me about the flashbacks is that they attempted to relitigate the ending of TLOU. Since the first game released I hated the idea of a sequel, because the ending was pitch perfect and had some actual subtlety to it (although the correct answer is that Joel was wrong, gently caress Joel).

The last scene really recontextualised that for me though. Ellie had allowed herself to believe Joel's lie (the flashbacks sort of imply that she genuinely believed him but leaves room for interpretation) for years. She then had her worst fears confirmed, and suddenly she had to face all of these questions - whether he did the right thing, what it says about their relationship, whether she could have mattered. Then, a year later, she'd finally started to reconcile it all in her head, and the very next day Joel is killed - and she'll never have the closure that'll come with either forgiving or condemning him. I got the impression that her anger went far beyond Joel himself being murdered - it left her without any resolution to the huge issues she was still coming to terms with (and she didn't have goons to discuss it with).

While part of me still wishes they'd left well enough alone, I'm glad they found a good way to explore the effects the events of the first game had on Ellie. It's handled far better than I'd have expected.



Also it just occurred to me that IIRC the "I'll kill every last one of them" line from the trailers wasn't actually in the game? Or if it was it was far less aggressive and ragey. For a big chunk of the game I was expecting something else to happen that drove Ellie even further into her abyss leading her to that line - like Dina dying or Jackson being hosed up.




I wonder if she ever reconnected with Dina and JJ.

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

bok bok bok





College Slice

emoticon posted:

So FILMCRITHULK does game reviews now, and he reviewed TLOU2, which is worth a read if you have like an hour and enjoy over verbose film school analysis applied to a video game:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/last-of-us-part-38722226

He makes a lot of points about video game violence that I made, perhaps in a more abrasive and less cogent way, in the other thread that shall not be named

It's a good thinkpiece, nicely written, though there's a few things I kind of disagree on. Nice personal read on it though in any case.

Also, yet another take on the ending where they don't pick up on the Joel's face thing, which tells me they didn't read the freakin' diaries!

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






Fun Shoe

Dewgy posted:

It's a good thinkpiece, nicely written, though there's a few things I kind of disagree on. Nice personal read on it though in any case.

Also, yet another take on the ending where they don't pick up on the Joel's face thing, which tells me they didn't read the freakin' diaries!

The constant sketches of Joel with his eyes scribbled out are so sad

It reminds me of the moment you realise you can't quite remember a dead loved one's voice anymore.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Dewgy posted:

Also, yet another take on the ending where they don't pick up on the Joel's face thing, which tells me they didn't read the freakin' diaries!

To be fair, the game undermines the impact of the moment itself thanks to the flashbacks you experience throughout the game. If the first time Ellie saw Joel's unbroken face was also the first time the player saw it as well, I think the moment would have been more profound and conveyed its importance more clearly as well.

I'm not suggesting excising Ellie's flashbacks, since those are the best part of the game, but it's one of the many issues created by the game's unusual (some would say poor) structure.

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

bok bok bok





College Slice

In It For The Tank posted:

To be fair, the game undermines the impact of the moment itself thanks to the flashbacks you experience throughout the game. If the first time Ellie saw Joel's unbroken face was also the first time the player saw it as well, I think the moment would have been more profound and conveyed its importance more clearly as well.

I'm not suggesting excising Ellie's flashbacks, since those are the best part of the game, but it's one of the many issues created by the game's unusual (some would say poor) structure.

I can see that. It doesn't really make much of a distinction between what's a flashback the character's experiencing versus a flashback that we the player are going through, apart from just when they happen.

I really would love to see a bonus mode where you go through the events and scenes in chronological order. Not the best way to do it the first time, I think the time jumping was a great way to do the narrative, but it'd make a cool extra for repeat playthroughs.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





In It For The Tank posted:

To be fair, the game undermines the impact of the moment itself thanks to the flashbacks you experience throughout the game. If the first time Ellie saw Joel's unbroken face was also the first time the player saw it as well, I think the moment would have been more profound and conveyed its importance more clearly as well.

I'm not suggesting excising Ellie's flashbacks, since those are the best part of the game, but it's one of the many issues created by the game's unusual (some would say poor) structure.

Now I'm imagining a version of the game where Joel's face is meticulously hidden from the camera during every flashback - like Raiden's cocknballs at the end of MGS2.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Anti-Hero posted:

Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc.

Am I missing anything?


She doesn't vocally express regret but she does watch basically all of her friends die because of it. She never seemed to regret actually killing Joel, but she seemed to realize the consequences of it weren't worth it

Donovan Trip
Jan 6, 2007


precision posted:

Oh my lord, people

I wasn't saying that the shot of Dina's armpit grossed me out. I've certainly hosed plenty of people

Ok now I know you're lying

just want to join in on the praise for the museum scene. Ellie imagining taking off in the shuttle to space and knowing everything on either side of that moment in this story made me cry like a baby

The ending I didn't want either of them to die. honestly by the end, I didn't want anyone else to loving die. so I guess the game worked on me? I felt exhausted by murder. Then you get back to the farm, and see how much Ellie has lost, trying to play the guitar, ugh, brutal.

By the time this game ended I felt relief that it was finally over, and then I immediately started new game+. I dunno how both those feelings can coexist but they DO

Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 30, 2020

Tarnop
Nov 25, 2013

The Corridor of Uncertainty

Necrothatcher posted:

The Arcade Clubs in Bury and Leeds are worth a visit!

https://www.arcadeclub.co.uk/games/

Can confirm

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

I just got to my first human encounters and I've just gotta say: The mechanic where you take a hostage is a bad mechanic. Your captive cannot be disarmed or otherwise rendered less lethal, they and their friends will beg for their lives or try to talk you down, Ellie will tell them not to struggle, and yet they will inevitably try to break out, meaning that the only actual reason to do so is to execute them after a few seconds of pleading for their lives. You can't even subdue or less-lethal-takedown them, it's just Throat Slitting Time after Ellie dangles the prospect of their being spared in front of them.

It's a morally abhorrent mechanic (executing a prisoner/using a human shield) masquerading as a less-morally abhorrent mechanic (taking a prisoner). I don't think it adds anything to the game, enemies will try to shoot around your hostage anyways, it won't even slow things down because you can't even point the gun at them while you have the hostage taken.

I don't really see what it adds to the game beyond a way to feel like a monster. Not to mention that the inevitable attempt to break out feels super videogame-y? Like, enemies never just ...stop fighting. They're afraid, but never enough to be stopped any way short of overkill.

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 1, 2020

Donovan Trip
Jan 6, 2007


Jetrauben posted:

I just got to my first human encounters and I've just gotta say: The mechanic where you take a hostage is a bad mechanic. Your captive cannot be disarmed or otherwise rendered less lethal, they and their friends will beg for their lives or try to talk you down, Ellie will tell them not to struggle, and yet they will inevitably try to break out, meaning that the only actual reason to do so is to execute them after a few seconds of pleading for their lives. You can't even subdue or less-lethal-takedown them, it's just Throat Slitting Time after Ellie dangles the prospect of their being spared in front of them.

It's a morally abhorrent mechanic (executing a prisoner/using a human shield) masquerading as a less-morally abhorrent mechanic (taking a prisoner). I don't think it adds anything to the game, enemies will try to shoot around your hostage anyways, it won't even slow things down because you can't even point the gun at them while you have the hostage taken.

I don't really see what it adds to the game beyond a way to feel like a monster.

Pretty sure it exists SOLELY to make you run all these things through your head

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Donovan Trip posted:

Pretty sure it exists SOLELY to make you run all these things through your head

Yeah, and I don't think that's really a good mechanic. It's, like I said, a feel-bad mechanic masquerading as a less-feel-bad mechanic.

Donovan Trip
Jan 6, 2007


Jetrauben posted:

Yeah, and I don't think that's really a good mechanic. It's, like I said, a feel-bad mechanic masquerading as a less-feel-bad mechanic.

That's kind of 2LOU in a nutshell

I was thinking about Death Stranding today and how it has a lot of similar themes in that story. A big difference is, as Kōbō Abe's "Nawa" put it, that game is a rope. 2LOU is a stick.

enojy
Sep 11, 2001

bass rattle
stars out
the sky



Anti-Hero posted:

Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc.

Am I missing anything?


The way used dreams/nightmares as a plot device made me think Abby dealt with her demons during what culminated in those three days in Seattle. Abby starts off waking up from a mysterious dream that turns out to be a recurring nightmare of the day she found her father dead at the Fireflies hospital. She has that dream a few more times, until eventually (I think after she saved Yara's life?) it turns into the most ideal pleasant memory her brain can simply muster; her walking into the operating room to find her father alive and smiling at her. I like to think, in that moment, she has a revelation that it's much more rewarding to her psyche to be saving/preserving lives and forgiving transgressions. She does a 180 for just about everything else.

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Jetrauben posted:

I just got to my first human encounters and I've just gotta say: The mechanic where you take a hostage is a bad mechanic. Your captive cannot be disarmed or otherwise rendered less lethal, they and their friends will beg for their lives or try to talk you down, Ellie will tell them not to struggle, and yet they will inevitably try to break out, meaning that the only actual reason to do so is to execute them after a few seconds of pleading for their lives. You can't even subdue or less-lethal-takedown them, it's just Throat Slitting Time after Ellie dangles the prospect of their being spared in front of them.

It's a morally abhorrent mechanic (executing a prisoner/using a human shield) masquerading as a less-morally abhorrent mechanic (taking a prisoner). I don't think it adds anything to the game, enemies will try to shoot around your hostage anyways, it won't even slow things down because you can't even point the gun at them while you have the hostage taken.

I don't really see what it adds to the game beyond a way to feel like a monster. Not to mention that the inevitable attempt to break out feels super videogame-y? Like, enemies never just ...stop fighting. They're afraid, but never enough to be stopped any way short of overkill.

Yes you can, just press 'aim'

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

Yes you can, just press 'aim'

I meant the hostiles, though.

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

bok bok bok





College Slice

Jetrauben posted:

I meant the hostiles, though.

What? If you grab someone as a human shield, you can pull R2 to shoot them in the head, or hold L2 to aim at other enemies to then shoot them in the head.

enojy
Sep 11, 2001

bass rattle
stars out
the sky



Dewgy posted:

What? If you grab someone as a human shield, you can pull R2 to shoot them in the head, or hold L2 to aim at other enemies to then shoot them in the head.

To be fair, I had no idea you could do either of these things until I saw it done in a video clip after having beat the game! They never give you a prompt to do so, so I never thought to try it.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

enojy posted:

To be fair, I had no idea you could do either of these things until I saw it done in a video clip after having beat the game! They never give you a prompt to do so, so I never thought to try it.

I just kinda wish that we could just disable or disarm enemies. The way in which literally every option other than escalating murder is taken away is...well, it makes using the grab hard when somebody is begging for their life and you literally cannot spare them.

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Donovan Trip
Jan 6, 2007


You're sparing them by killing them

Enduring another second in the world of 2LOU is the torture

Naughty Dog really missed an opportunity to have some NPCs say "gently caress it just do it"

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