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Fair enough on Tommy, I assumed he was dead when I was playing through the game. We know she didn't go upstairs and deliver one of her patented head stomps though. I do know she went from "She's pregnant? Good." to putting Dina aside in a few seconds and all it took was her name and Lev looking worried. Whether she decided not to out of goodness or begrudgingly due to Lev, the point is she didn't kill anyone else at that point despite these people all trying to kill her within the last few minutes.
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Aug 5, 2020 00:38
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Instead of empty grousing about it I'm going to actually articulate why I think this conversation is wrongheaded: Yes, you are supposed to be conflicted at that moment. But that doesn't mean Abby is worse or even equivalent to Ellie in that moment, because that would go against the parallel the game has been setting up the entire time. Ellie has spent her entire story sinking lower and lower, sinking to new depths, literally becoming an uglier human being as evidenced by the intense bruising she goes through. Abby, on the other hand, starts out pretty loving bad but rises out of it and re-learns empathy, helping someone she previously would have tried to kill and throwing away the awful society she was a part of. When Abby finds the scene of Mel's body, it shocks both characters out of their paths, but Abby still has Lev, an outsider to this cycle, to stop her before she throws away all she's learned on her own journey. So, my issue is that if you take the thematic structure of the game into consideration, the in-universe answer for "Is Abby worse than Ellie in the theater scene?" is actually pretty blatantly "No." It's clear what the diegetic answer is from how the game has conveyed its themes. Trying to make Abby more "grey" here serves what purpose? Throwing away a really interesting character arc and dual story structure? Arist fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 01:03
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I think it’s telling that I start reading a lot of these posts thinking I’m disagreeing with them, then realizing by the end we are mostly saying the same thing with some variation in detail. Edit - The point being that pretty much everyone here has been properly “conflicted” at each of the fights, with each person leaning a little more towards one character or another depending on what details landed the most for them. The conflict in our discussion, and the desire to be objective about the game’s morality, is weirdly recursive because it proves Naughty Dog’s point that there is no moral objectivity. Cocoa Ninja fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 02:00
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in other words naughty dog is a land of contrasts
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Aug 5, 2020 02:07
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Hah! Exactly. I’m most of the way through replaying TLOU remastered and then intend to do a New Game plus of TLOU2. Looking forward to sharing my morality-tracking Excel file with everyone when I’m done.
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Aug 5, 2020 04:36
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I've got a gun, a ribbon that says Good and a ribbon that says Evil on it. No one is leaving the room till we've got this figured out!
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Aug 5, 2020 07:13
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Yeah I can’t say that I love Abby the way I love Eliie, but I certainly grew to really care about her over the course of the game, and I was very conflicted during Santa Barbara all the way through. I think you can love and hate both women at different points in the game for the blatantly sadistic and hosed up things they do, and I think you can feel really sorry for them both as well. But Ellie is probably my favorite character in video games, replacing Dante, and bumping Raziel from Soul Reaver down to 3rd place.
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Aug 5, 2020 08:06
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I didn't love Ellie one bit in 2.
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Aug 5, 2020 08:54
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I didn't love Ellie one bit in 2. if you didn't like the museum then I think you were just actively trying to dislike her
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Aug 5, 2020 09:27
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yeah, QoP, what's goin on dude
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Aug 5, 2020 09:36
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morallyobjected posted:if you didn't like the museum then I think you were just actively trying to dislike her Oh yeah fair. Anything present day.
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Aug 5, 2020 10:28
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take on me is an extremely hard song to do well, and ellie did it extremely well
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Aug 5, 2020 10:59
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Oh yeah fair. QoP watching Ellie herd sheep, dance with her wife, and snuggle her infant son as the sun sets over the purple mountains majesty and amber waves of grain: “YOU STUPID IDIOT BITCH, FUQ UUUUUUUU!”
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Aug 5, 2020 14:07
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Bust Rodd posted:QoP watching Ellie herd sheep, dance with her wife, and snuggle her infant son as the sun sets over the purple mountains majesty and amber waves of grain: “YOU STUPID IDIOT BITCH, FUQ UUUUUUUU!” It was Decided earlier itt that wheat fields and tradwife are fascism, sorry. I really liked both Abby and Ellie ITG so it worked on me, I guess I’m simple and easy to please. Pretty much all the notes the story was trying to hit landed for me.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:25
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Wait, is this real? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wF4lcfQkvk
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Aug 6, 2020 07:19
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mcbexx posted:Wait, is this real? doubt it. if it is it looks like total poo poo. - reused voice clips? check - loving in-game map?  check- hosed up looking movement and animation? check edit; VVVVV yeah, lakeside, obviously also. check BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 07:39
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That's a much worse looking version of a TLOU1 map (lakeside) and looks like poo poo in general, so unless they are just reusing content and its a super early build I'm gonna say it's probably some fan made thing. Edit: for comparison the "leak" takes place right to the left of the first supply box they hit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qhS17q3Xcg veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 09:39
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This is such a great article. I’m not sure I agree with all the connections, but if anything it’s a great examination on how trauma impacts people. https://twitter.com/sofistake/status/1290327926471307271?s=21
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Aug 6, 2020 17:56
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It really is a great article. Whatever minor gripes I have with certain characterization choices in the game, it is incredibly intricately written and directed. It's really rewarding to think about and was absolutely great to replay, and it stands up well to deep reads and detailed analysis. The first game is more streamlined in telling it's story, but I think TLOU2 will be remembered as the superior storytelling achievement once the shadow of CHUD outrage subsides and people have a chance to appreciate all the details.
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Aug 6, 2020 18:56
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Lazy Savior posted:It really is a great article. Whatever minor gripes I have with certain characterization choices in the game, it is incredibly intricately written and directed. It's really rewarding to think about and was absolutely great to replay, and it stands up well to deep reads and detailed analysis. The first game is more streamlined in telling it's story, but I think TLOU2 will be remembered as the superior storytelling achievement once the shadow of CHUD outrage subsides and people have a chance to appreciate all the details. Yeah, that's a nice optimistic way to look at it. But we all know that it'll never happen, people will only know it as 'That game where you cruelly slaughter 800 dogs a minute' and never try it.
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Aug 6, 2020 19:23
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Well that alleged Factions video has already disappeared into the ether. I guess it's not entirely impossible it was from some very early prototype. The plot thickens.
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Aug 6, 2020 21:45
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veni veni veni posted:Well that alleged Factions video has already disappeared into the ether. I guess it's not entirely impossible it was from some very early prototype. The plot thickens. Considering the fact that it says that it was taken down by copyright claim, probably not a prototype tbh.
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Aug 6, 2020 21:59
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theblackw0lf posted:This is such a great article. I’m not sure I agree with all the connections, but if anything it’s a great examination on how trauma impacts people. This was such a good read.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:55
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is this the same video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya7J_1Xb_W4
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Aug 7, 2020 09:33
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Yeah, that's the one that was posted the other day
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Aug 7, 2020 09:39
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so what about this one then, is this new? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7EGQAHYVFA
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Aug 7, 2020 12:09
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah, that's a nice optimistic way to look at it. But we all know that it'll never happen, people will only know it as 'That game where you cruelly slaughter 800 dogs a minute' and never try it. I think the game already moved past that a few days after release tbh
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Aug 7, 2020 23:08
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I literally only saw the dog stuff here on Something Awful I don’t think the average gamer is really that mortified. We grew up on Pokémon which is literally just animal abuse repackaged with primary colors
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Aug 8, 2020 00:35
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What an incredible game. I played TLOU 1 for the first time and then this, back to back - not as a marathon but playing an hour or two a day, stopping whenever there was any kind of narrative break. I think both games benefited hugely from playing them as one long tale, and from not gunning through in a weekend. This will stick with me.
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Aug 8, 2020 17:04
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Also the surgeon flashback scene in 2 was frame for frame how it went down in my TLOU 1 playthrough, which was neat.
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Aug 8, 2020 17:06
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I think the way the game forces your hand in TLOU2 is similar to the ending of TLOU1. When Joel is rescuing Ellie, you have no choice other than killing the surgeons. When I played it I thought I'd be able to knock them out or tie them up or something, but nope, Joel will only murder the lot of them. On a different topic, one thing that always frustrates me a little about all stealth-based games is that it will put you in an area with lots of bad guys, and it's only after you've picked them all off or gotten into a stand-up firefight with them that you have a chance to look around properly and discover all the little hiding places and vents and tunnels that you could've used to avoid them entirely or get behind them without being seen. There's always a lot more to each level than you realise at first. It's probably good for a second playthrough, I guess, but the first time you just think "D'oh, I could've gone through there and those two wouldn't have seen me at all!"
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Aug 9, 2020 10:50
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I whole heartedly agree with that criticism of stealth games in general, but I also think TLOU 2 was one of the better ones in that regard. I felt like you can push through areas pretty dynamically and they are still pretty fun to explore after the dust settles which is more than I can say about most of them. Most of the time I'll play something like Deus Ex, Dishonored or whatever and after I kill everyone I'm like "oh hey I could have used that vent or thrown a carrot at that guy, but I just shot everyone cause I had plenty of ammo." I think TLOU 2 uses it's space well in that I naturally moved through a lot of it, and going back and checking the places I missed was rarely a waste of time.
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Aug 9, 2020 11:06
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That's a lot of logged mo-cap time for poo poo 90% of the playerbase will never see ... (If you felt that the violence in the game was too over the top, better not click, because, well....) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvj-xOplybQ
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Aug 10, 2020 01:46
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mcbexx posted:That's a lot of logged mo-cap time for poo poo 90% of the playerbase will never see ... 60fps remaster is gonna slap. also they all deserve it crossing ellie, the correct and righteous protoganist
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Aug 10, 2020 03:39
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chinigz posted:60fps remaster is gonna slap. Sure hope they'll be able to add turning off the film grain by then as well.
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Aug 10, 2020 06:26
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RareAcumen posted:Sure hope they'll be able to add turning off the film grain by then as well. This must be a thing an expensive tv haver thing because I literally didn't notice it until I played around with photo mode. I agree though more options like this from TLOU1. Weird question - since the cutscenes are pre-rendered, how is it that the characters always have the right melee weapons or whatever? Obviously they aren't pre-rendered then but I thought that was the point of them being loading screens.
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Aug 10, 2020 07:21
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chinigz posted:This must be a thing an expensive tv haver thing because I literally didn't notice it until I played around with photo mode. I agree though more options like this from TLOU1. I imagine the (generally) close shots in controlled environments is what gives them the extra resources to unload old assets and load in the new assets but I know little about any of this so maybe not
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Aug 10, 2020 08:52
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chinigz posted:This must be a thing an expensive tv haver thing because I literally didn't notice it until I played around with photo mode. I agree though more options like this from TLOU1. I've only got like a 120$ 32" TV I bought years ago  but I felt like something was off for a while as I was playing it and then I looked for something about the game on google and it autocompleted asking about Film Grain and I went 'gently caress that's what was throwing me off!'
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Aug 10, 2020 09:08
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I completed the game, picked a chapter to replay (the elementary school near the beginning)...and now I can't select encounters or chapters past that point. WTF Is there any way I can get back to the ability to jump into chapters/encounters at will? This is incredibly disappointing.
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Aug 10, 2020 18:07
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False posted:I completed the game, picked a chapter to replay (the elementary school near the beginning)...and now I can't select encounters or chapters past that point. WTF Can't you go to the menu, load the game clear file and back out to pick anything? I think I did something like that.
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Aug 10, 2020 18:11
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