Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
DurosKlav
Jun 13, 2003

Enter your name pilot!


Arbite posted:

I hope the campaign is lengthy, I know even base X-wing/Tie Fighter length is too much to hope for but still, a good dozen or so hours would be nice.

I doubt its length in hours will reach even double digits

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cobbsprite
May 6, 2012

Threatening stuffed animals for fun and profit.

Honestly the Imperial pilots can even be unabashed fascists and I will forgive myself for having fun flying a TIE around.

Chomp8645
Sep 1, 2006

Vvardenfell awaits.



It's ok to play as a bad person in a video game, and not to feel bad about doing it.


It's not real.

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012



Jerkface posted:

The empire in the OT is all stuffy classist british dudes led by a warlock and the rebel alliance has female leadership and the culmination of it in rotj is a multi race coalition led by Mon Mothma.


I like how the old EU handled bringing female imperial leaders , not sold on what the new EU is doing but tbf I haven't read most of the books (only comics) so maybe they have a good explanation for all the female isd commanders or whatever.

The (non-)explanation is "They were always there and you just hadn't seen them before."

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Dapper_Swindler posted:

i am more shocked tie pilot is married more than anything. i feel like it would be like ww1 and such where they just put every unmarried kid in a tie.

As seen in the mandalorian the humble tie is actually a pretty fearsome spacecraft compared to civilian ships. The rebels do not have a giant navy full of mon cal carriers full of X-wings and A-wings. Endor was the entire rebellion after several successes and there were what, 3 fleet carriers and a handful of escort carriers (ie nebulon b frigate).

Unless you stumble upon the protagonists of a movie the average tie pilot probably isnít actually at great risk.

mikemil828
May 15, 2008

A man with something to say




TheAnomaly posted:

good people don't continue to work for bad people.

Sure they do, we wouldnít be in a ďlate stage capitalisticĒ society otherwise. Personally I think exploring why otherwise good people support evil organizations would be an interesting and timely thing for Star Wars to do, itís usual answer that good people are only imperial because the plot demands it and that the empire is so evil itíll invariably do something that compels the good person to defect is only because the franchise rarely has the courage to consider the topic seriously.

TheAnomaly
Feb 20, 2003


Tom Guycot posted:

Thank you for missing the point in a spectacular way.

I didn't miss your point, I refuted it. I was trying to do so with out being a smug facetious dick, but since you opened the can: Fine. Apocalypse Now doesn't have heroes, it has a series of undeniably evil protagonists who comically attempt to justify their own evil so they never have to face it. It is interesting as a film because we get to watch their worldview fall apart around them as the face the undeniable truths about the horrors of what they do and who they do it for. It is a fantastic piece that satires other war films as imperialist propaganda, which follows in the footsteps of the book it was loosely based upon. It was interesting as a film because it did not attempt to make its protagonists into heroes, something that EA has absolutely no track record of. You are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, I am unwilling to consider any of their writers to be in the same caliber as Francis Ford Coppola, John Milius, or Joseph Conrad.

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

It absolutely does happen, though. Some folks want to mitigate the damage done by the worse people they work with/for. Some folks want to protect other folks they care about under the bad guys. Some just don't have a choice or an opportunity to get away. It takes a lot to leave any kind of oppressive regime, whether it be a cult, an extremist group or a nation. None of this absolves them of any wrongdoings, it just explains them, and why they didn't or can't leave.

You used Kallus and Wedge as examples within Star Wars, but neglected to mention how that led to deaths, captures and interrogation when it went wrong. It's just not a safe move, and it's very logistically difficult. Also, while I agree that most of the people in Apocalypse Now were differing shades of awful, that's also a film that folks remain famously divided on whether or not it's anti-war or pro-war, which just emphasises how divisive this stuff is and how folks interpret things differently.

I agree that leaving evil is hard and carries consequences, and that can make for a compelling protagonist. Grey is not planning on leaving the Empire, and the background blurb we have on him. "Varko Grey was a human male ace pilot who led the Galactic Empire's Titan Squadron as Titan Leader with the military rank of captain. Grey initially fought to maintain order against corruption and injustice as a police officer on Parkella, although he eventually became an Imperial TIE pilot. As a pilot of the Empire, Grey believed that it was the only hope for a chaotic galaxy." He is literally the "good cop caught in a bad system trying to make things better" trope that always makes for terrible stories and is so tone deaf right now it hurts.

As for Apocalypse Now, it's neither anti nor pro war. It's Anti Imperialism, which is why it's difficult to understand because most of us have been spoon fed pro-imperialism since childhood (at least in the US). It's stance on war is secondary to its stance on the evil inherent to Empires and to the people who help to expand and protect them.

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors



TheAnomaly posted:

I didn't miss your point, I refuted it. I was trying to do so with out being a smug facetious dick, but since you opened the can: Fine. Apocalypse Now doesn't have heroes, it has a series of undeniably evil protagonists who comically attempt to justify their own evil so they never have to face it. It is interesting as a film because we get to watch their worldview fall apart around them as the face the undeniable truths about the horrors of what they do and who they do it for. It is a fantastic piece that satires other war films as imperialist propaganda, which follows in the footsteps of the book it was loosely based upon. It was interesting as a film because it did not attempt to make its protagonists into heroes, something that EA has absolutely no track record of. You are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, I am unwilling to consider any of their writers to be in the same caliber as Francis Ford Coppola, John Milius, or Joseph Conrad.


I agree that leaving evil is hard and carries consequences, and that can make for a compelling protagonist. Grey is not planning on leaving the Empire, and the background blurb we have on him. "Varko Grey was a human male ace pilot who led the Galactic Empire's Titan Squadron as Titan Leader with the military rank of captain. Grey initially fought to maintain order against corruption and injustice as a police officer on Parkella, although he eventually became an Imperial TIE pilot. As a pilot of the Empire, Grey believed that it was the only hope for a chaotic galaxy." He is literally the "good cop caught in a bad system trying to make things better" trope that always makes for terrible stories and is so tone deaf right now it hurts.

As for Apocalypse Now, it's neither anti nor pro war. It's Anti Imperialism, which is why it's difficult to understand because most of us have been spoon fed pro-imperialism since childhood (at least in the US). It's stance on war is secondary to its stance on the evil inherent to Empires and to the people who help to expand and protect them.


3
Aug 26, 2006

The Magic Number




College Slice

TheAnomaly posted:

I didn't miss your point, I refuted it. I was trying to do so with out being a smug facetious dick, but since you opened the can: Fine.

You're so intent on proving your point that "The Empire is Bad" that you seem to be completely missing the fact that up to this point no one in this thread has said that the Empire is Good. Not everyone in the Empire has to be a smug turbohitler, and in point of fact the idea that there are otherwise decent people willing to fight for this abhorrent system because they truly believe it's the right thing to do is what makes them such effective villains.

This is of course ignoring the really obvious thing that if you're producing a game where you're expecting 50% of your playerbase to fly TIE fighters, portraying every TIE pilot as a gleeful babykicker whose sole purpose in life is to kick as many babies as possible maybe isn't going to pan out!

Madurai posted:

The (non-)explanation is "They were always there and you just hadn't seen them before."

Excellent post-avatar combo here.

plester1
Jul 9, 2004







This thread has solidified my decision to never play with goons.

Shine
Feb 26, 2007

No Muscles For The Majority


I like Frieza.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation. I actually named my daughter after the Pink ranger and will provide proof if challenged.


Shine posted:

I like Frieza.

Big Yamcha fan here

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.

Grimey Drawer

I like Cell. He only gets more perfect as time goes on.

Hopper
Dec 28, 2004

BOOING! BOOING!

Grimey Drawer

Look guys, the voice even says it in the trailer, it is a "diverse crew of pilots", therefore the story is on point for the current times, don't worry it will all be fine...

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine.





DurosKlav posted:

I doubt its length in hours will reach even double digits

Wasn't the Battlefront 2 campaign only like 3 hours long or something?

The campaign in this game is almost certainly going to be an afterthought. I hope not, but that's what's probably gonna happen. Unless they surprise us by putting in some kinda procedurally generated single-player "campaign" thing after the story content ends or something, which I doubt.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Gosh. I watched the video, then read the posts, and honestly...

I thought they said his name was Greg. I misheard the audio, perhaps my ears are ringing from wildfire smoke. I was laughing the whole time, going "Bold choice my friends!"

But no. Pure black and white, no shades of Greg at all.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




plester1 posted:

This thread has solidified my decision to never play with goons.

And also to go back to ignoring this forum entirely


Embarrassing to read some of this poo poo

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine.





Really looking forward to representing [YUB].

It's just single player and the two game modes (5v5 and fleet battles) announced so far, right? Do we know what the player vs. player count is on the fleet battle mode?

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Fun Shoe

Drone posted:

Really looking forward to representing [YUB].

It's just single player and the two game modes (5v5 and fleet battles) announced so far, right? Do we know what the player vs. player count is on the fleet battle mode?

IIRC, both the dogfight and fleet battles mode are 5v5 human players. They may have said the fleet battles will also have some NPC fighters to go with the ships and other players but I donít recall if that was confirmed or not offhand (Or maybe it was that you can play the multiplayer modes solo against NPC?).

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




TheAnomaly posted:

I agree that leaving evil is hard and carries consequences, and that can make for a compelling protagonist. Grey is not planning on leaving the Empire, and the background blurb we have on him. "Varko Grey was a human male ace pilot who led the Galactic Empire's Titan Squadron as Titan Leader with the military rank of captain. Grey initially fought to maintain order against corruption and injustice as a police officer on Parkella, although he eventually became an Imperial TIE pilot. As a pilot of the Empire, Grey believed that it was the only hope for a chaotic galaxy." He is literally the "good cop caught in a bad system trying to make things better" trope that always makes for terrible stories and is so tone deaf right now it hurts.

He believed that when he joined, hence the past tense. Later in that bio it says he disagrees with the Empireís methods, but has seen too many brothers in arms die to back out now. Itís okay to not be a fan of that trope, but personally I enjoy it. I think the inner conflict can make for compelling characters and situations, though itís all in the execution. Thereís a film called The Eternal Zero that kinda plays with elements of that, a Japanese fighter pilot whoís not a huge fan of the war becoming a kamikaze pilot, and their grandchildren trying to understand his motivations by interviewing people who knew him.


Drone posted:

Wasn't the Battlefront 2 campaign only like 3 hours long or something?

The campaign in this game is almost certainly going to be an afterthought. I hope not, but that's what's probably gonna happen. Unless they surprise us by putting in some kinda procedurally generated single-player "campaign" thing after the story content ends or something, which I doubt.

It was somewhere between 4-6 hours. Iím expecting 9 missions minimum, one for each ship type, maybe more.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine.





fartknocker posted:

They may have said the fleet battles will also have some NPC fighters to go with the ships and other players but I donít recall if that was confirmed or not offhand (Or maybe it was that you can play the multiplayer modes solo against NPC?).

10 players in a game mode that is billed as "a big Return of the Jedi level battle" is a little disappointing, but I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Or maybe it'll end up like Star Conflict minus the pay-to-win.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Drone posted:

10 players in a game mode that is billed as "a big Return of the Jedi level battle" is a little disappointing, but I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Or maybe it'll end up like Star Conflict minus the pay-to-win.

AI ships and fighters are confirmed, so thatís where the battle size will come from.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Drone posted:

10 players in a game mode that is billed as "a big Return of the Jedi level battle" is a little disappointing, but I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Or maybe it'll end up like Star Conflict minus the pay-to-win.

New thread title:

Red 5 vs Blue 5

Sad it couldn't have gone the other way around in the video, so we could use Crouching TIEger, Hidden X-Wing.

hhhat
Apr 29, 2008


lol at the thread derail I apparently caused

sorry everyone, it's my first time

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


The game length will be short because every map will need obstacles and hand designed backdrops. Tie Fighter and X Wing were aboe to be so long because they existed entirely in deep space so the only thing you needed to do was plop down ship assets and run some basic mission parameters and bang, new level.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Arcsquad12 posted:

The game length will be short because every map will need obstacles and hand designed backdrops. Tie Fighter and X Wing were aboe to be so long because they existed entirely in deep space so the only thing you needed to do was plop down ship assets and run some basic mission parameters and bang, new level.

There's nothing that stops them from having deep space missions in this game to go along with the fancy setpiece missions.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Theres nothing to stop them, sure but we're still dealing with EA. Always keep that in mind. Even if Motive is making right moves with what they've shown so far i always expect a catch with EA games.

Anarcho-Commissar
May 22, 2002

"The means of production being the collective work of humanity, the product should be the collective property of the race. Individual appropriation is neither just nor serviceable. All belongs to all."
- Pyotr Kropotkin




What was the catch with Fallen Order?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Anarcho-Commissar posted:

What was the catch with Fallen Order?

Back tracking and poor past travel locations doubling the runtime?

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7Twd85m2g

Because I'm posting good Star Wars poo poo in relevant threads.

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors



Anarcho-Commissar posted:

What was the catch with Fallen Order?


you have to play a ginger.

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007






Grimey Drawer

Tom Guycot posted:

you have to play a ginger.

Ugh. Disgusting. Iíd rather play the empire.

Anarcho-Commissar
May 22, 2002

"The means of production being the collective work of humanity, the product should be the collective property of the race. Individual appropriation is neither just nor serviceable. All belongs to all."
- Pyotr Kropotkin




hobbesmaster posted:

Back tracking and poor past travel locations doubling the runtime?

That's certainly a valid criticism of the game, and something I hated a lot, but I'm not sure that's an EA gotcha. Maybe.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler


Grimey Drawer

SA . . . SA never changes.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003


Kind of want to get a actual joystick for this like I had as a kid doing X-Wing, anyone have a recommendation for something USB and cheap enough?

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors



socialsecurity posted:

Kind of want to get a actual joystick for this like I had as a kid doing X-Wing, anyone have a recommendation for something USB and cheap enough?

A lot of stuff is harder to get a hold of right now, theres a lot of demand, but the general go to for cheap joystick is to check out the thrustmaster t16000. Its pretty cheap, good enough, and after that you start getting into a lot more expensive items.

Shine
Feb 26, 2007

No Muscles For The Majority


The joystick market is kinda hosed right now by the combination of COVID-19 hitting manufacturing in China, and Microsoft releasing their first Flight Simulator entry since like 2005 (it's really good!) which caused a run on existing inventory, so finding a decent, cheap joystick is tricky at the moment.

The X-Plane store has (had?) the VKB Gladiator for about a hundred bucks, and it's a very good basic stick. I bought one as a secondary stick to use in non-VR games, including TIE Fighter, and it's excellent as a non-HOTAS option. There's also the classic Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, which isn't as nice (and has a dumb name) but is much cheaper.

I will suggest that the HOTAS-X be avoided at any price point. It's such a lovely stick that I'd rather fly with a gamepad. There's a huge, unremovable deadzone and very short stick travel past it, so it's a chore to be precise with it. Absolute garbage.

3
Aug 26, 2006

The Magic Number




College Slice

Tom Guycot posted:

A lot of stuff is harder to get a hold of right now, theres a lot of demand, but the general go to for cheap joystick is to check out the thrustmaster t16000. Its pretty cheap, good enough, and after that you start getting into a lot more expensive items.

The nice thing about the T16000 is that if you buy it on its own, you can get the throttle separately later on if you feel like upgrading to a HOTAS setup. Meanwhile, as I will be exclusively flying TIE fighters most likely, I'm eagerly awaiting to see if the game will allow me to make binds for my CH flight yoke.

Symetrique
Jan 1, 2013






3 posted:

The nice thing about the T16000 is that if you buy it on its own, you can get the throttle separately later on if you feel like upgrading to a HOTAS setup. Meanwhile, as I will be exclusively flying TIE fighters most likely, I'm eagerly awaiting to see if the game will allow me to make binds for my CH flight yoke.

I don't see why not. I managed to get a vkb gladiator working in the closed test. I'd imagine that the joystick support will be much better in the release build.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors



Symetrique posted:

I don't see why not. I managed to get a vkb gladiator working in the closed test. I'd imagine that the joystick support will be much better in the release build.

You were in the closed test? you bastard.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply