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Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Strategic Sage posted:



Up Next

Back to CW3, where ... if I can ... I'm going to tackle one of Sorrontis' most infamous creations; Field of Glory. There will be pain.

:allears:
EDUT: update at the end of prev page

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Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Remember, you can move dark mirrors. You don't need to destroy and rebuild them.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Definitely forgot that - I thought they had to be rebuilt.

:siren:
It's Not Useless (38:58)
:siren:

Somebody brought up this map on discord, it's a DMD one but with the twist that you have no weapons save a nullifier and no shields. Orbital musical chairs with the Command Nodes is the only way to win. Seemed a useful gimmick, and while it gets tedious this map isn't horribly long

Field of Glory is still coming, but I pushed it back because I'm trying to thread the needle on having a setup sufficient to win, but not big enough to grind my computer to a halt. As will be seen, that's easier said than done. I'm hoping it'll be worth the wait.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Original idea. I suppose the forge they give you is completely useless without aether?

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Yep. You can build it ... but it can't actually do anything.

Faylone
Feb 18, 2012
If you could just allow even the AC capacity upgrades and ban all other upgrades it'd probably still make it feel like much less of a slog, because bigger rounds of AC would prevent less evaporation at the edges probably, and you wouldn't need to micromanage it so much

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Faylone posted:

If you could just allow even the AC capacity upgrades and ban all other upgrades it'd probably still make it feel like much less of a slog, because bigger rounds of AC would prevent less evaporation at the edges probably, and you wouldn't need to micromanage it so much

Is it possible to configure what the forge can do in custom maps? The singularity weapon would completely break this map, of course.

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009

Carbon dioxide posted:

Is it possible to configure what the forge can do in custom maps? The singularity weapon would completely break this map, of course.

In full custom maps you can, but DMD maps like this have a more limited set of options so it's all or nothing on upgrades.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Field of Glory is coming hopefully tomorrow. I wanted it to be today at the latest, but had another argument between my system and glorious YouTube. Normally that's just a brief delay, but with longer videos re-uploading means many hours of waiting ... and occasional gnashing of teeth, grumbling, and borderline profanity to go with it.

Complications
Jun 19, 2014

I took a crack at the map, and gave it up as a bad job most of the way through. There's hard maps, long maps, and then there are exercises in gratuitous masochism.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
I wonder, if you bother to watch the end of it, were you really close to the end or did you just think you were? As I mention in the video, the ease which you can lose this map from an 'almost finished' position makes me think the avatar shouldn't be a dog but the guy in the pot from Getting Over It With Bennett Foddy.

:siren:
Field of Glory (2:22:02)
:siren:

Probably not an exaggeration to say I spent ten hours winning this. If not it was close. Don't ask what the map does; ask what it doesn't do. I am the 10th person to survive - not conquer, survive - this map. I'm pretty happy with that.

Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 17, 2020

Complications
Jun 19, 2014

Strategic Sage posted:

I wonder, if you bother to watch the end of it, were you really close to the end or did you just think you were? As I mention in the video, the ease which you can lose this map from an 'almost finished' position makes me think the avatar shouldn't be a dog but the guy in the pot from Getting Over It With Bennett Foddy.

I was most of the way through the process of grinding through where it renders the terrain into void in lines on something like attempt #4. I hadn't preset being able to nullify everything at once and I'd just gotten into position to nullify the top left respawning emitter when I finally called it quits. Looking at the solution video afterwards, I was somewhere around 2/3 of the way through the map, since I would've immediately "won" that stage before it went mobile. The mobile stage I'd've had issues with, since anticreeper would not be my first, second, or fifth thoughts.

The two stages after the mobile one wouldn't have been an issue. Thousands of creeper per second are only a problem for people who don't have batteries of Berthas ready to go, and I'd long since diversified the position of my reactor farms.

Complications fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 17, 2020

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Where Am I? (31:04)
:siren:

Had a request for more CW1, and this map had an intereresting though tedious fog-of-war gimmick. It also never answers its own question unfortunately.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Incidentally CW1 has NO custom language at all.
How is this achieved then?
They made the terrain a dark color and then used it's interaction with the normal collector collection radius display.
They also changed the creeper color to really dark.
It's an ingenious yet rear end way.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead
I miss having immediate access to improved everything, without needing anything else.

I noticed some interesting thing about shields in CW3 when there are multiple layers to cover. The creeper being on the lowest layer at all times seems to slide under the shield if there is enough goo, unless you have lots of shield energy behind it. It was strange seeing this huge pool form behind two super shields, the instant I moved a third to an advanced position. Just teleported past them and a good distance too.

Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jul 24, 2020

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
I can't say I've ever noticed that teleporting thing, though I rarely used enough shields for it to be possible.

Faylone
Feb 18, 2012
Yeah, if there's enough creeper it flows into the shields. When you get multiple fields overlapping but it still leaks in weird stuff like that can happen.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Castle Wars (31:35)
:siren:

Back to Particle Fleet after a lengthy absence for a recent GMM map, although as the name indicates this one is not in the form of a maze. Definitely throws some shade at the PF characters, and at the start there's some unnecessary annoyance with Omni placement IMO.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead
That looked like a fun map.

General Revil
Sep 30, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Scalding Coffee posted:

That looked like a fun map.

It really is. I'm glad SS got around to it.

Gosts
Jan 15, 2016


Just wanted to say i'd totally forgotten about this series of games, and thanks for showing off this demo! You've re-ignited my love for the series, now I eagerly await the full release along with everyone else.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Glad to hear it! The reception to the demo overall seems to have been mostly positive. Now we all get to hurry up and wait together.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Planet X954S2 (PAC) (1:06:48)
:siren:

First PAC map I've done in many moons, chosen by the scores popularity method; more people have submitted scores for this map than any other CW3 creation. While I'm not a big fan of the PAC implementation in general, this is a good one IMO. Invading by expanding digitalis across the void is such a very Creeper/Loki thing to do.

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009
X954S2 was decent, but for me the only really good PAC map I've seen is the very first one - CreeperComeback, I think it was called. Needing to play around nullifiers was a huge part of the challenge and strategy of that one, but for whatever reason none of the later maps I've seen use them; maybe they're just too much work to implement?

Unfortunately without nullifiers every PAC map just feels like a slow march toward inevitable victory. There's never any danger of the AI pushing you back or exploiting your weak points, it's just an endless sequence of "okay, where do I go for my next inch of progress?".

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

My question is, until you destroyed that enemy Forge near the end, there was a forge button on YOUR interface. Does that do anything at all?

It would be a bit weird if we could use the enemy's upgrade points but y'know...

lagidnam
Nov 8, 2010
The forge button is just there because there is one on the map, it doesn't help the creeper. It does however effect the enemy buildings like in a normal game, meaning all the upgrades go away if the forge dies. I think I once played a PAC map where I had to assassinate the forge first to be able to break through the cannon defense.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

NRVNQSR posted:

Unfortunately without nullifiers every PAC map just feels like a slow march toward inevitable victory. There's never any danger of the AI pushing you back or exploiting your weak points, it's just an endless sequence of "okay, where do I go for my next inch of progress?".

I didn't play CreeperComeback until now, and I have to say that I agree.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Sounds like I've got another map to put in the hopper for 'between now and CW4' then :) That whole 'you never lose ground, it can just be a real pain to gain it' thing combined with the the awkwardness from shoehorning PAC into a UI not designed for it is why I've generally not been a huge fan. It's not bad for what it is, but I'll take Sleeper or CSM in general any day.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Nothing decided for sure, but there could be some form of update to the CW4 demo happening in roughly a month.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Creeper World 2: Next Step (37:01)
:siren:

First map I've done by Binz - this is of the puzzle variety, and I think it's harder than advertised. I'm not great at these kinds of maps in general though. You definitely have to think differently than you do for a 'normal' map.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Strategic Sage posted:

:siren:
Creeper World 2: Next Step (37:01)
:siren:

First map I've done by Binz - this is of the puzzle variety, and I think it's harder than advertised. I'm not great at these kinds of maps in general though. You definitely have to think differently than you do for a 'normal' map.

I just beat this map in 19:12. I basically used your exact strategy. The only difference: I didn't dawdle.

On this map your only truly limited resource is anti-creeper. There's plenty of energy as long as you get everything as soon as possible and use it wisely.
The slowest part was building all the makers at the start.
Claim the tech points for which you need the single burst. Put down a beacon, claim those to the right immediately after. The creeper in the bottom room leaves a neat path for energy packages to get to the technytes so get them simultaneously.
While that's all going on, move the makers to the bottom room, give that a burst, and claim the ore mines.
The map gives you exactly the maximum amount you can place and that's a hint: place all of them immediately, they will all build, using a lot of the crystal energy but that is fine. Put one or 2 makers on vacuum duty, move the rest to the top right, with everything going on at once it seems I had slightly more anticreeper to spare than you did at this point, and I just destroyed the creeper there with a couple bursts without much trouble.

By the time you can destroy that wall blocking off the gate, make sure you have already selected everything in the way of progress: all blocks in front of that big stack of technyte, all the crystals, all the things. For some reason you did that one by one but you can pick up a lot of stuff in parallel. I used the mirrors (some of which I created in a safe corner and then moved onto the path) to immediately clear the path to the Launcher tech without need to wait for the AC. Put the Launchers on duty to shoot the barrier in front of the last crystals, while I redirected the mirrors to get that crystal you got last.

Since it took a whiiile to get through the last bit of stuff with the Launchers, I checked out the mirrors and noticed I had exactly enough to make the beam reach the Microrift tech on the left. Getting that gives you a funny easter egg message - check it out yourself if you like.

Anyway, once I got the big technyte stack I upgraded my weapons to max, and I was getting ready to move the Makers into that last creeper barrier - but before I could the upgraded Launchers had already destroyed it.

I'm sure I could've done some minor optimizations but I still don't know how I could've gotten sub-12. I lost some time by building too many Makers at once at the start and I probably could've saved time too if I knew exactly how much AC each obstacle needed instead of waiting for the Makers to charge completely, but other than that, dunno.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Actually I decided to play through it once more to record it for y'all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHGpzIogkZU

I kinda forgot I usually play with the music on a very low volume, put it a bit higher halfway through.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
Cool stuff. I figured I had to be missing something since there are times just over six minutes and CW2 boards tend to not be hacked nearly as bad as CW3 ones.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Era of the Sleeper (27:25)
:siren:

My first sleeper map since Doomed-Fortress Sleepers, which is still one of my favorite CW levels (any version). This one is an early Sleeper map, and not a challenging one if you know how to deal with them. Mostly I just thought it had been too long since I did one as I think it's an interesting and worthy game mode. I'd like to revisit this and do a more challenging map of the style sometime later this year I think.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

This level is a lot easier if you go aggressive.
You can save the entire center plateau if you are fast enough with building a couple guns and a couple of beams there.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
That didn't even occur to me as a possibility.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Exponential Growth (11:37)
:siren:

Apparently CW4 is going to have an Endurance Mode victory condition where the emitters gain strength over time. I didn't know about that when I recorded this, which is a CW1 level with the same gimmick. It's not hard per se, but can become qutie aggravating if you take longer and get enough creeper momentum going.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Asteroid Rail Gun V2 (1:30:58)
:siren:

One of the few recent playable at a decent speed custom maps, this one has a tricky start due to the thing in the title. It's very easy for things to go sideways on you if you screw up ... and since I was rusty on 'normal' CW3 maps, guess what? I screwed up more than my share. An interesting if tedious gimmick.

Strategic Sage
Jan 22, 2017

And that's the way it is...
:siren:
Red Vs Blue 4 (1:25:22)
:siren:

This might be the best Particle Fleet level I've played. Something for everybody; particles, ships, and omnis. Have to use them all to be successful, and some interesting obstacles including one whale of a lot of struc.

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Faylone
Feb 18, 2012
Oh yeah, that was a BLAST to play.

It looks like your biggest trouble with the big diamond was that you weren't group moving omnis yet. You don't really need to carefully aim them on a design like that, because the only possible areas they can stop at are the spots that are good for them to land, and so they snap to targeting them.

I think you can make it so Steam will stop popping up with that product key message that you don't ever need to use after you first register it by opening the steam overlay when it's showing it, and then there will be an option to tell it to stop showing up for good, though the overlay also has some option to bring it back up if you ever needed it somehow?

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