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Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...they shall march out of my laboratory and sweep away every adversary, every creed, every nation, until the very planet is in the loving grip of the Pax Bisonica. And then peace will reign, and the world, and all humanity, shall bow to me in humble gratitude...

Thing is, if the final battles don't give you Cool Cards, then people will also complain.

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GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Theantero posted:

Thing is, if the final battles don't give you Cool Cards, then people will also complain.
If it were me, I would have given you the Ensemble cards during the first round of fights, the Unite cards after beating the fight after that, and beating the game gives you Angela's keypage, and True Red Mist and An Arbiter keypages to give Gebura and Binah the upgraded versions they had in the final fight.

GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Sep 7, 2021

SITB
Nov 3, 2012


Theantero posted:

Thing is, if the final battles don't give you Cool Cards, then people will also complain.

The cause and effect is reversed here, people did complain that PM didn't give them cool cards, that's why we got the Ensemble and distorted Ensemble cards in the first place.

CHiRAL
Mar 28, 2010

Anus.


Those cards were always there, complaining got us the Kether realization. Getting all of the cards at the end of this freaking marathon makes sense plot-wise but for gameplay it's doo doo

SITB
Nov 3, 2012


Neither the cards nor the key pages were implemented when the update first came out and then a whole bunch of people complained that we didn't get any new toys. It also shown by how the mechanics of a couple of the new key pages were half baked and didn't really work when they were first released.

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


When the unwanted guests was first released they said in the update including it that the prizes would be coming later and hadnít been implemented.

The complaining changed a lot, but those were always going to happen.

SITB
Nov 3, 2012


I just checked the update log and saw that PM only mentioned adding rewards on the 12 of march (when the update was at 26 of February) and on the 26 note there was no mention of any rewards.

I remember that there were a bunch of people complaining on how Roland mentioned that 'their books are on a whole new level' and we didn't get any rewards before PM released a notice that they will add rewards a couple of days later. But I don't know how to access the archived announcements in order to check it.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011


polish is for cowards

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


SITB posted:

I just checked the update log and saw that PM only mentioned adding rewards on the 12 of march (when the update was at 26 of February) and on the 26 note there was no mention of any rewards.

I remember that there were a bunch of people complaining on how Roland mentioned that 'their books are on a whole new level' and we didn't get any rewards before PM released a notice that they will add rewards a couple of days later. But I don't know how to access the archived announcements in order to check it.

https://twitter.com/ProjMoonStudio/status/1365552566256369667?s=20

Found the relevant tweet, itís in Korean but auto translate says it. Itís from the day after. Given the text was already there, they were about to miss the update entirely (the previous tweet was about how they were trying to get it out the door that day), and they said they were taking the first week of March off, thereís no way they didnít always plan for the rewards. They very likely just ran out of time to finish bug testing and implementing them in the initial update and opted to get the core gameplay part out the door.

Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.


I wish that the invitation maker was better. There's some obvious choices made for balance reasons (you can only have 9 points of keypage attributes, you can't have effects that aren't from the game), but some of their other choices are... not great (You can only determine the number of types of books for reception, not specific books, the effects for a card are just listed, so there's 'Inflict 1 burn', 'inflict 2 burn' etc instead of 'Inflict burn' and a place to add a number). Also some translation issues, but that's completely understandable and fine.

I mean there's still BaseMod stuff, so there's a different avenue for more advanced things, but I do kind of which it was easier to put stuff on the workshop.

SITB
Nov 3, 2012


TeeQueue posted:

https://twitter.com/ProjMoonStudio/status/1365552566256369667?s=20

Found the relevant tweet, itís in Korean but auto translate says it. Itís from the day after. Given the text was already there, they were about to miss the update entirely (the previous tweet was about how they were trying to get it out the door that day), and they said they were taking the first week of March off, thereís no way they didnít always plan for the rewards. They very likely just ran out of time to finish bug testing and implementing them in the initial update and opted to get the core gameplay part out the door.

I dunno according to google translate it also mentioned improving the key page bind function, which was initially cut and then rejiggered into its current form specifically because of player outcry, so the rewards being part of the result of that stuff isn't out of the question and also explains stuff like old Resonance and Pluto's old passives.

Admittedly crunch hosed up PM either way :v:.

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


Torchlighter posted:

I wish that the invitation maker was better. There's some obvious choices made for balance reasons (you can only have 9 points of keypage attributes, you can't have effects that aren't from the game), but some of their other choices are... not great (You can only determine the number of types of books for reception, not specific books, the effects for a card are just listed, so there's 'Inflict 1 burn', 'inflict 2 burn' etc instead of 'Inflict burn' and a place to add a number). Also some translation issues, but that's completely understandable and fine.

I mean there's still BaseMod stuff, so there's a different avenue for more advanced things, but I do kind of which it was easier to put stuff on the workshop.

They claim theyíre working on adding some extra functionality, though weíll see how useful it is once it releases.



SITB posted:

I dunno according to google translate it also mentioned improving the key page bind function, which was initially cut and then rejiggered into its current form specifically because of player outcry, so the rewards being part of the result of that stuff isn't out of the question and also explains stuff like old Resonance and Pluto's old passives.

Admittedly crunch hosed up PM either way :v:.

Oh absolutely it did. Either way, I donít think this was like the Realization add on at the end.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


GilliamYaeger posted:

If it were me,

I know this thread plays kinda fast and loose with spoilers, but you should probably spoiler the big climactic fight that isn't obvious from the start.

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



ZeroCount posted:

True but if they gave you the Unite cards after the relevant fight you still wouldn't have any battles to use them on

imo they could've given them out after Puppet Angelica. The fact that she just unceremoniously vanishes without a book or anything was kinda weird(though it might indicate she was just a collection of random parts and wasn't actually Angelica, because Argalia was literally insane and Jae-heon has a track record of being completely delusional)

[ending spoilers] Also on that note i'm kinda curious as to how returning the booked people works in regards to the "monster" books. Are the puppets still puppets? How does Tomerry work since Tommy actually died super fuckin hard mid-fight? Is Yan still a giant typewriter elemental?

These aren't really important questions but are fun to think about

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 7, 2021

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



Yinlock posted:

imo they could've given them out after Puppet Angelica. The fact that she just unceremoniously vanishes without a book or anything was kinda weird(though it might indicate she was just a collection of random parts and wasn't actually Angelica, because Argalia was literally insane and Jae-heon has a track record of being completely delusional)

[ending spoilers] Also on that note i'm kinda curious as to how returning the booked people works in regards to the "monster" books. Are the puppets still puppets? How does Tomerry work since Tommy actually died super fuckin hard mid-fight? Is Yan still a giant typewriter elemental?

These aren't really important questions but are fun to think about


more ending spoilers Tommy dying mid-reception doesn't count because that was just a reproduced scan of Tommery from the time they entered the library, which is why he's back every time you replay the fight. But there's probably no way for them to return to normal. Same for the circus lads and the puppets and the gears. Yan as a pure distortion would probably exit the library still a monster, but could possibly be talked down and return to human if he doesn't get killed first (a case for the Distortion Detective). Maybe Philip too, since the one that died for reals in the final reception was only like 1/10th of him, the rest was booked.

e: actually, everyone from the train could have a chance if they return straight to the train to be reconstituted there, but Roland yanking Angela out of the light early might have screwed that up and sent them god knows where. but hey, that's that and this is this.

lets hang out fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Sep 7, 2021

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Acerbatus posted:

I know this thread plays kinda fast and loose with spoilers, but you should probably spoiler the big climactic fight that isn't obvious from the start.
Done, reworded so it's vague enough to not spoil it.

golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011

yospos



From the art book, Roland's looks were apparently inspired by Joseph Gordon Levitt and James McCoy. I can see the former in Roland, but not really the latter.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


Yinlock posted:

imo they could've given them out after Puppet Angelica. The fact that she just unceremoniously vanishes without a book or anything was kinda weird(though it might indicate she was just a collection of random parts and wasn't actually Angelica, because Argalia was literally insane and Jae-heon has a track record of being completely delusional)

[ending spoilers] Also on that note i'm kinda curious as to how returning the booked people works in regards to the "monster" books. Are the puppets still puppets? How does Tomerry work since Tommy actually died super fuckin hard mid-fight? Is Yan still a giant typewriter elemental?

These aren't really important questions but are fun to think about


I will be deeply disappointed if they don't have a gag about two Myos running around and forget about it or say something boring.

MetaMeme
Apr 30, 2017

You may boorishly refer to it as "Pickpocketing", but I prefer "Urban Foraging".


golden bubble posted:

From the art book, Roland's looks were apparently inspired by Joseph Gordon Levitt and James McAvoy. I can see the former in Roland, but not really the latter.

Not my edit, but I can see both

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



lets hang out posted:

more ending spoilers Tommy dying mid-reception doesn't count because that was just a reproduced scan of Tommery from the time they entered the library, which is why he's back every time you replay the fight. But there's probably no way for them to return to normal. Same for the circus lads and the puppets and the gears. Yan as a pure distortion would probably exit the library still a monster, but could possibly be talked down and return to human if he doesn't get killed first (a case for the Distortion Detective). Maybe Philip too, since the one that died for reals in the final reception was only like 1/10th of him, the rest was booked.

e: actually, everyone from the train could have a chance if they return straight to the train to be reconstituted there, but Roland yanking Angela out of the light early might have screwed that up and sent them god knows where. but hey, that's that and this is this.

ending etc Is it restoring the backup saves, or the books themselves? Given the epilogue fight it seems like the books are straight-up gone after the light finishes dispersing(since the only active combatants were those who could fight without a keypage) which implies the latter, thus all the weird edge cases I'm bringing up.

It's a huge clusterfuck either way since as you said they just got scattered to the wind with Roland's final "gently caress you" to the cycle of misery.

Can't wait to turn a corner in the dungeon crawler and just get obliterated by an angry typewriter


Acerbatus posted:

I will be deeply disappointed if they don't have a gag about two Myos running around and forget about it or say something boring.

The whole Complete Book thing implies that the library considered both Myos to be the same person and kinda just bolted them together, so I guess she's Double Myo now???

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Sep 8, 2021

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011


definitely the weirdest postgame case is Philip. you book most of him as the crying children, but a piece escaped and turned into reverberation ensemble philip, who is now permadead. so if Philip was resurrected, he's now missing a portion of his self, which seems like a rough deal. poor guy can't catch a break

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



Venuz Patrol posted:

definitely the weirdest postgame case is Philip. you book most of him as the crying children, but a piece escaped and turned into reverberation ensemble philip, who is now permadead. so if Philip was resurrected, he's now missing a portion of his self, which seems like a rough deal. poor guy can't catch a break

Tbf he's missing the part of him that was an outstandingly whiny rear end in a top hat, so maybe it's a plus on the whole

It's kind of unclear how that situation worked, CC claims he barely remembers anymore but is that a consequence of booking or him throwing such a massive prolonged tantrum that he basically just flamed out?

As an aside Reverbation Phillip's book is interesting because he's the only one who fully admits that Argalia's "freedom" of empty catharsis didn't actually make him feel any better, while the others are largely just shallow justifications for indulging their every hosed-up delusion(e: either talking like their delusions are objective reality, or scolding you for judging them while conveniently leaving out the suffering and mountains of bodies that they leave in their wake) Maybe it's because he almost became a decent human being at one point before getting brainblasted by a clown

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 9, 2021

Razakai
Sep 15, 2007

People are afraid
To merge on the freeway
Disappear here


Picked up this game a few days ago. Pretty fun, although I've got past Walter through what feels like brute force and blind luck of putting in cards with high numbers into the deck. Only farming I did was the aforementioned guy to kit out my Keter floor with 2 of him and one Mars, no idea when I'll have to actually start building decks with some sort of plan.
I also only found out just now you only lose books used in invitations when losing a fight, so I feel pretty dumb now.

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



Razakai posted:

Picked up this game a few days ago. Pretty fun, although I've got past Walter through what feels like brute force and blind luck of putting in cards with high numbers into the deck. Only farming I did was the aforementioned guy to kit out my Keter floor with 2 of him and one Mars, no idea when I'll have to actually start building decks with some sort of plan.
I also only found out just now you only lose books used in invitations when losing a fight, so I feel pretty dumb now.

You don't really have to worry about a plan beyond "big number good" for a good while, the game will helpfully inform you when it's time to buckle down with some actual strategy by murdering you

I only learned how the mechanics actually worked like a third into the game after being forced to :v:

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 10, 2021

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Yinlock posted:

You don't really have to worry about a plan beyond "big number good" for a good while, the game will helpfully inform you when it's time to buckle down with some actual strategy by murdering you

I only learned how the mechanics actually worked like a third into the game after being forced to :v:
Of course, most of the time that strategy will ultimately boil down to "make even bigger number for even gooder" via stacking +power passives. Though the biggest, most goodest numbers (the most obvious of which comes from Mountain of Smiling Bodies Gebura or The Strongest Yesod) do require some planning and setup before you can turn off your brain and initiate maximum unga.

Your Everyday NEET
Apr 26, 2017




*Sigh*

Having a boss with an instant loss condition in the middle of Realization sucks. Especially when the Woodsman chew through my Stagger Resist.

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




Yinlock posted:

imo they could've given them out after Puppet Angelica. The fact that she just unceremoniously vanishes without a book or anything was kinda weird(though it might indicate she was just a collection of random parts and wasn't actually Angelica, because Argalia was literally insane and Jae-heon has a track record of being completely delusional)


If you look at Puppet Angelica's cards, you'll note that they have basically the same effect as various Black Silence cards, the cards she used in life as her personal combat style. At least some part of her was alive and aware in that thing

MinutePirateBug
Mar 4, 2013


I can imagine a Lovetown community recreated in the outskirt wastes. With Tomerry as the mayor, you as a librarian adventurer get to go on quests retrieving heaping piles of meat for the Mayor.

Razakai
Sep 15, 2007

People are afraid
To merge on the freeway
Disappear here


Urban Plague boss spoilers:

I had some inkling Philip was going to do something special as I saw the term EGO Philip somewhere. Wasn't quite expecting something that intense, as that's the first time a normal fight has suddenly gotten it's own special stage, theme music and complicated mechanics. Still beat the guy down through raw Number Big staggering him once he got to his 5 dice stage and finishing him the next turn. Dawn Office stuff with slash/burn feels pretty good.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



oh my god the king of greed's gems giving the pages to the character who hit them first :dumbbravo:

Razakai
Sep 15, 2007

People are afraid
To merge on the freeway
Disappear here


Yinlock posted:

the game will helpfully inform you when it's time to buckle down with some actual strategy by murdering you

After reaching Urban Nightmare, the game has now reached that point. I'll actually have to plan out a deck :smith:

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



Your Everyday NEET posted:

*Sigh*

Having a boss with an instant loss condition in the middle of Realization sucks. Especially when the Woodsman chew through my Stagger Resist.

Yeah later Realizations expect you to have everyone alive and active at the start of every phase, Mind Hauler goes a long way towards making sure this scenario doesn't happen(but not entirely, woodsman is an rear end in a top hat as you say)

Razakai posted:

After reaching Urban Nightmare, the game has now reached that point. I'll actually have to plan out a deck :smith:

That's generally the start of the No loving Around Zone yes

Once you've got your hands on UN-tier pages you won't have to plan decks specifically tailored to each fight for the most part, but when breaking in you gotta be super careful.

A jargogle
Feb 22, 2011


Your Everyday NEET posted:



*Sigh*

Having a boss with an instant loss condition in the middle of Realization sucks. Especially when the Woodsman chew through my Stagger Resist.

Oh hey I had this except unavoidable before thanks to Yujin's broken die and was also mad enough to post about it.

edit:
snap

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



A jargogle posted:

Oh hey I had this except unavoidable before thanks to Yujin's broken die and was also mad enough to post about it.

Man I have been hosed over by that die so many times(lol mass attacks) that I just stopped using Yujin altogether for the most part even though Yujin is insanely good

Nea
Feb 28, 2014

Funny Little Guy Aficionado.

I can't help but laugh at the person in the LP thread talking about how the city runs on cyberpunk logic and not anime logic. they have no idea how wrong that is. we haven't even gotten to 'one of the reasons people don't often use guns is because if you're going up against a pretty decent guy, not even the best guy, there's a good chance they might be able to deflect it with a sword'

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


It's anime cyberpunk logic. :buddy:

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Nea posted:

I can't help but laugh at the person in the LP thread talking about how the city runs on cyberpunk logic and not anime logic. they have no idea how wrong that is. we haven't even gotten to 'one of the reasons people don't often use guns is because if you're going up against a pretty decent guy, not even the best guy, there's a good chance they might be able to deflect it with a sword'
More than a good chance, since it's one of the main ways to defend against guns in-game. That said, guns are still very dangerous - even Colors like Kali can only deflect so many attacks before they start hitting them, and unlike swords guns don't require much training or augmentation to use. There's a very good reason why the Head puts so many restrictions on the things - they break the intended power curve of the City and allow the weak to take out the strong, even just through sheer force of numbers. Give some Rats a top quality blade and suit and they're still trash, but give them some AK-47s and they might be able to kill someone important before going down.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Goddamn I nearly rage quit the game after the last second fake out in the final realization. That is a total dick move to spend an hour just to see unavoidable death coming your way. The final card could've unlocked one scene earlier with absolutely no difference in gameplay.

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




WarpedLichen posted:

Goddamn I nearly rage quit the game after the last second fake out in the final realization. That is a total dick move to spend an hour just to see unavoidable death coming your way. The final card could've unlocked one scene earlier with absolutely no difference in gameplay.

They probably want to avoid the possibility of Using the Knowing I early and not having it for when it's actually needed

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NotteBoy97
Aug 17, 2021


Personally I like to think at the end Angela doing her thing with the Light meant even the people who came to the Library as monsters like Tommerry or the Puppets got 'fixed' to being human again since even with all the 'they were booked as monsters' stuff I just want that the ending of Ruina to be a happy ending even if it would be pretty deus ex machina to have all the problems the Library caused fixed.

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