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Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
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She DID authorize things like silent girl and forsaken prisoner, experiments on actual people.

If anything her being upset about Enoch was the out of character moment.

I suspect Angela aside she was already pretty hosed up from being reduced to a semi aware nervous system in a jar.

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ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013





Yeah I do think Carmen has distorted, that she is in fact the first Distortion, but I heavily doubt it has anything to do with Angela. She seems quite fond of Angela, actually! It probably has much more to do with spending ten thousand years trapped in a fate worse than death. That she has come out different on the other side of that is no surprise.
I mean granted, Carmen DID organise the whole Reverberation Ensemble to try and gently caress Angela over but she also helped Angela a lot and when she speaks to her in the Keter Realization she comes off more as trying to stop Angela from making the same 'mistake' she did. Carmen already gave up her life for the sake of others and for her trouble she had to endure an absolutely horrific fate. I think her attempt to stop Angela from doing the same was genuine.

Luckily for Angela, Roland is a much steadier person than Ayin and his response to Angela committing suicide was to disregard her wishes and save her life, not to subject her to eternal torment.

ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 15, 2021

Arcvasti
Jun 12, 2019

Never trust a bird.

RoboCicero posted:

It's really cool that you get Pluto's contracts from his keypage, but the fact that they can activate automatically if you're not careful and that the penalties are just as steep as during his Ensemble fight just makes it not worth it.

Long Arms used to make you immune to the damage from failing those contracts, so you could stick the light restore one on Binah to spam Shockwave and Pillar forever and ever. This turned out to be a bug unfortunately, and it was fixed. There's still probably some galaxy brain use for them, kind of like jae-hoon's page and the loyal flaming puppet build.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Acerbatus posted:

She DID authorize things like silent girl and forsaken prisoner, experiments on actual people.

If anything her being upset about Enoch was the out of character moment.

I suspect Angela aside she was already pretty hosed up from being reduced to a semi aware nervous system in a jar.
Is there more stuff on Silent Girl than just a couple of lines? I always thought it was another thing representative of Carmen herself, considering its position in Keter Realization. As for Forsaken Murderer...consider how supremely hosed up you'd have to be to get the death sentence in the City. And Carmen didn't seem that reluctant to do violence upon people, considering how she met Chesed because she'd set Gebura on some guy that looked like him.

ZeroCount posted:


Yeah I do think Carmen has distorted, that she is in fact the first Distortion, but I heavily doubt it has anything to do with Angela. She seems quite fond of Angela, actually! It probably has much more to do with spending ten thousand years trapped in a fate worse than death. That she has come out different on the other side of that is no surprise.
I mean granted, Carmen DID organise the whole Reverberation Ensemble to try and gently caress Angela over but she also helped Angela a lot and when she speaks to her in the Keter Realization she comes off more as trying to stop Angela from making the same 'mistake' she did. Carmen already gave up her life for the sake of others and for her trouble she had to endure an absolutely horrific fate. I think her attempt to stop Angela from doing the same was genuine.

Luckily for Angela, Roland is a much steadier person than Ayin and his response to Angela committing suicide was to disregard her wishes and save her life, not to subject her to eternal torment.

Yeah, Carmen being completely off her rocker doesn't mean that her attempts to "help" people aren't with the most genuine of best intentions. Y'know, the same ones that pave the road to hell.

MinutePirateBug
Mar 4, 2013


It has been awhile since I checked on the game itself and not just the lets play, but I am really liking the combat actuaries.

MinutePirateBug fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Sep 15, 2021

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



ZeroCount posted:


Yeah I do think Carmen has distorted, that she is in fact the first Distortion, but I heavily doubt it has anything to do with Angela. She seems quite fond of Angela, actually! It probably has much more to do with spending ten thousand years trapped in a fate worse than death. That she has come out different on the other side of that is no surprise.
I mean granted, Carmen DID organise the whole Reverberation Ensemble to try and gently caress Angela over but she also helped Angela a lot and when she speaks to her in the Keter Realization she comes off more as trying to stop Angela from making the same 'mistake' she did. Carmen already gave up her life for the sake of others and for her trouble she had to endure an absolutely horrific fate. I think her attempt to stop Angela from doing the same was genuine.

Luckily for Angela, Roland is a much steadier person than Ayin and his response to Angela committing suicide was to disregard her wishes and save her life, not to subject her to eternal torment.


I think it was watching Ayin and the Sephirah go through super hell that changed her, since she's now super insistent that everyone "love everything about themselves" when there are some things about yourself that you absolutely should not love.

It's the difference between accepting your flaws and trying to overcome them and loving them unconditionally, the latter of which leads to poo poo like the Reverbation Ensemble

Basically the lesson she took from watching the seed of light stuff 90000 times was "it would be way easier if you just stayed fuckin crazy instead of having to go through all that emotional growth"

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Sep 15, 2021

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



RoboCicero posted:

Finished the Keter Realization, finally. Thank you for all the help! I think I'm just about burnt out though, so I'm going to read the wikipedia (and TeeQueue LP!) for the plot of any remaining fights. It's really cool that you get Pluto's contracts from his keypage, but the fact that they can activate automatically if you're not careful and that the penalties are just as steep as during his Ensemble fight just makes it not worth it.

So, for some endgame plot clarification -- it turns out that Carmen and her plan for the light was that every person could Distortion-fy themselves at will with the reasoning that if this happens, no one will be able to be more powerful than anyone else (because everyone will have ~distortion powers~). Ultimately though, Angela rejects this and returns the Light that the library has been collecting via un-booking everyone, and almost fades away in the process (because she's constructed out of Light?) before Roland stops her from going through with it. Did I understand that right?

also god bless Ultra Instinct Binah for carrying half of these fights.

The 1st phase of the next fight is a fucker but the rest of the game afterwards is a victory lap, plus you get a ton of floors to throw at them. The final phase even blasts your emotion up 2 stages every turn and the enemy doesn't resist burn, so you can take that flower of iron and smash their faces in with it

e: I was pretty burnt out at that point too but you're in the home stretch and there's no super-involved hours-long fightathons left, it's just a big stupid unga bunga slugfest as a palette cleanser after Keter Hell

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 15, 2021

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Yinlock posted:

I think it was watching Ayin and the Sephirah go through super hell that changed her, since she's now super insistent that everyone "love everything about themselves" when there are some things about yourself that you absolutely should not love.

It's the difference between accepting your flaws and trying to overcome them and loving them unconditionally, the latter of which leads to poo poo like the Reverbation Ensemble

Basically the lesson she took from watching the seed of light stuff 90000 times was "it would be way easier if you just stayed fuckin crazy instead of having to go through all that emotional growth"


It is in fact basically Adam's argument from the end of the original Lobotomy Corporation. It's easier to make everyone the monsters inside instead of trying the harder path of healing them all. But I do assume the original plan was everyone would have their own EGO and abilities to manifest their thoughts and dream again, shattering the Head's control by showing people that they do not have to live in misery.

lih
May 15, 2013


is the way too hard when first available fight people are talking about in the LP Queen of Hatred? that was the first major brick wall/clear 'come back later' moment i've encountered in my playthrough

if it's something else please spoil me i'm curious

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


lih posted:

is the way too hard when first available fight people are talking about in the LP Queen of Hatred? that was the first major brick wall/clear 'come back later' moment i've encountered in my playthrough

if it's something else please spoil me i'm curious
Nah it's probably the Gebura fights, which become a lot easier once you get Geb's exclusive keypage.

Solitair
Feb 18, 2014

This statement is a lie!


lih posted:

is the way too hard when first available fight people are talking about in the LP Queen of Hatred? that was the first major brick wall/clear 'come back later' moment i've encountered in my playthrough

if it's something else please spoil me i'm curious

GilliamYaeger posted:

Nah it's probably the Gebura fights, which become a lot easier once you get Geb's exclusive keypage.

It actually is the spoiled fight for me. I've yet to try the Gebura fights.

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




GilliamYaeger posted:

Nah it's probably the Gebura fights, which become a lot easier once you get Geb's exclusive keypage.

Almost all of them unlock before you get that keypage though?

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.




ZeroCount posted:

Almost all of them unlock before you get that keypage though?

Yeah, but there's nothing stopping you from putting them off until you get that keypage.

CHiRAL
Mar 28, 2010

Anus.


Can you even do the realization before getting it? Cause you really shouldn't

Your Everyday NEET
Apr 26, 2017


GilliamYaeger posted:

Nah it's probably the Gebura fights, which become a lot easier once you get Geb's exclusive keypage.

Huh??? To get the exclusive keypage, you must be able to beat that superboss without that keypage first.

Gebura 4th Abnormality requires the book of that superboss. So no, you can't. And you must use that keypage since that requires you to be able to deal big damage else the final phase of the realization become unwinnable.

Your Everyday NEET fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Sep 15, 2021

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




BisbyWorl posted:

Yeah, but there's nothing stopping you from putting them off until you get that keypage.

Yeah but none of them are harder than the fight you have to do to get that keypage.

Qrr
Aug 14, 2015




lih posted:

is the way too hard when first available fight people are talking about in the LP Queen of Hatred? that was the first major brick wall/clear 'come back later' moment i've encountered in my playthrough

if it's something else please spoil me i'm curious

That's what I assume. I did that fight when it first became available and it was the hardest fight in the game for me by a massive margin. Low emotion cap, no abnormality buffs, the first mass attack of the game, and (depending on how you play it) a very careful dance around a full heal + stagger recover meant it took a whole lot of attempts, when everything else took 1-3. On the bright side you can just ignore it for a very long time if you want.

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




Qrr posted:

That's what I assume. I did that fight when it first became available and it was the hardest fight in the game for me by a massive margin. Low emotion cap, no abnormality buffs, the first mass attack of the game, and (depending on how you play it) a very careful dance around a full heal + stagger recover meant it took a whole lot of attempts, when everything else took 1-3. On the bright side you can just ignore it for a very long time if you want.

And as if to rub salt into the wound, the Abno pages you get as a reward for that fight might be the single worst risk:reward ratio in the entire game.

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...they shall march out of my laboratory and sweep away every adversary, every creed, every nation, until the very planet is in the loving grip of the Pax Bisonica. And then peace will reign, and the world, and all humanity, shall bow to me in humble gratitude...

lih posted:

is the way too hard when first available fight people are talking about in the LP Queen of Hatred? that was the first major brick wall/clear 'come back later' moment i've encountered in my playthrough

if it's something else please spoil me i'm curious

I would presume that is one of the chief ones mentioned. Sure the Red Mist is helpful for the Gebura fights, but they are perfectly doable even without it. Queenie specifically you can get at a point with few tools to deal with it in a reliable way.

But I have faith in Tee, and thus will be honor bound to vote for it anyway :v:

PlasticAutomaton
Nov 12, 2016

Artoria Pendonut




Oh yeah Queenie really loving sucks now. Little Red is also an absolute garbage fire of a fight too though

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


Both Queen and Li'l Red are ones I was thinking about.

One of the charming things about Ruina is that whenever you mention some bullshit thing that causes problems in the future, you will inevitably have to be so vague to avoid spoilers that anyone else playing the game can easily think of multiple things which it could apply to. :v:

Watch me somehow manage to make both of them look easy, I swear that I'm not as good at LoR as I am at LC, seriously. :sweatdrop:

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




TeeQueue posted:

Both Queen and Li'l Red are ones I was thinking about.

One of the charming things about Ruina is that whenever you mention some bullshit thing that causes problems in the future, you will inevitably have to be so vague to avoid spoilers that anyone else playing the game can easily think of multiple things which it could apply to. :v:

Watch me somehow manage to make both of them look easy, I swear that I'm not as good at LoR as I am at LC, seriously. :sweatdrop:

I do hope you also show off that The Red Mist is absurdly busted and capable of soloing some very silly things. Including The Black Silence

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


That key page is definitely my late game ace in the hole because I assume everyone is gonna beeline right for it due to what it is.

Actually winning the fight with only gear church stuff from SotC might be an issue, but hey! That’s how you tell if I actually have skill or. Something. :v:

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



I've been doing all the abnos as soon as they unlock on this playthrough and haven't had much trouble, TQ's definitely better at card games than me so I'm sure he won't struggle too much. Geb's realization has been my toughest fight by far, with Chesed's a very distant but still stressful second. Still got Judgement Bird and the entire third layer of SotC to do though. :ohdear:

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


Both of Tiphs first two fights were nerfed because they were way too tight before, though new key pages help too.

Theres a bunch of infamous fights that are kinda whatever now.

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014



TeeQueue posted:


Actually winning the fight with only gear church stuff from SotC might be an issue, but hey! That’s how you tell if I actually have skill or. Something. :v:

I suppose that would also depend on whether you count Binah’s help as “SOTC”.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



Even at the time it was released and then later after her nerfs, I always had more trouble with KoD than the Queen. But this time instead of just bringing Oscar I slapped extra speed dice on his kids too and fully rolled her. :hellyeah:

And now you've got Kim and the rusted chains cards for the Queen. The new general invites ease things a lot. Udjat is sensational for some of the later abnos.

lets hang out fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 15, 2021

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


Just take night awls, not like you're missing out by slacking with tiph. :v:

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



Night Awls is SotC, two whole tiers after Knight unlocks! :colbert: Was wrong about Kim though, he's in UN.

You're right that there's no need to rush though, I just wanted to see how it would go. Poor TQ's not going to have a choice lol

lets hang out fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Sep 15, 2021

CHiRAL
Mar 28, 2010

Anus.


TeeQueue posted:

That key page is definitely my late game ace in the hole because I assume everyone is gonna beeline right for it due to what it is.

I can't wait :allears:
There's so much good stuff coming in the LP, wish I had a time machine (fueled by suffering optional).

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009




Yinlock posted:

The final days(and super-bosses) will run a lot smoother the more maxed-out folks you have, but you don't have to do it super-early. You'll eventually get abnormalities that will rocket up one stat or other and fully training someone barely takes any time at all.

It's worth taking an extra meltdown or two to buff your agents up early on but you shouldn't really go nuts about it until you unlock Training's stuff which speeds up the process by a ton

e: minimum-wise all you really need is enough super-agents to hold all your Aleph and good WAW gear, everyone else is just +1 deathball power or a spare hand to work a meltdown when poo poo is going down(which is very helpful but not entirely necessary)

Thanks for this, will resume not stressing about it too much.

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




found this and thought, why not? (didn't bother/care to order them inside the tier groups, that's all just chronological)

ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Sep 16, 2021

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


Footfalls not being in D and Matchlight being in C is the first thing that sticks out to me as weird.

I can't think of a time where you'd ever want to actually use footfalls.

Arcvasti
Jun 12, 2019

Never trust a bird.

Footfalls has come in clutch for me a few times. It's extremely specific niche is: you're bringing malkuth in at zero emotion to finish off a mostly dead encounter, but it's still really tough so your dudes are gonna drop left and right in the process. Remember, if both sides die at the same time, you win. It is still definitely the worst abnormality card in the game, but it has a use.

Matchlight definitely(extreme endgame spoilers) 100% qualifies as 'pretty cool sometimes'.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


It can be fun I guess but I'm dubious on any strategy that requires being behind to use. :v:

ZeroCount
Aug 12, 2013




Acerbatus posted:

Footfalls not being in D and Matchlight being in C is the first thing that sticks out to me as weird.

I can't think of a time where you'd ever want to actually use footfalls.

I was gonna put Footfalls in D (and probably should have) but then I remembered that I killed the Red Mist with it way back in the day and changed my mind. I don't have much respect for Matchlight.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


So with the Assistant Librarians beginning to show up in the LP, I figure now's a good time to show off some of my own attempts at them.



It was completely unintentional on my part, but Paul came out of the creation process looking shockingly badass - guess him remembering how he died all those times toughened him the gently caress up. The open shirt and tattoos of Gin's page only added to that. Next, Yun's page and Boris's shades match BICEPS perfectly. Like, god drat. The very image of a silent, bald badass right there. Finally, the casual, friendly air of one of the Grade 7 Fixer's page fit Mr. Black perfectly, and more importantly it was green. (I, uh, wound up color coordinating all my floors whenever possible.) The game's title system letting me label him "Your friend, Mr. Black" was just the icing on the cake.

I wound up making pretty much every one of the LP's main cast, so if you want to see how someone specific looks in Ruina feel free to ask?

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...


GilliamYaeger posted:

So with the Assistant Librarians beginning to show up in the LP, I figure now's a good time to show off some of my own attempts at them.



It was completely unintentional on my part, but Paul came out of the creation process looking shockingly badass - guess him remembering how he died all those times toughened him the gently caress up. The open shirt and tattoos of Gin's page only added to that. Next, Yun's page and Boris's shades match BICEPS perfectly. Like, god drat. The very image of a silent, bald badass right there. Finally, the casual, friendly air of one of the Grade 7 Fixer's page fit Mr. Black perfectly, and more importantly it was green. (I, uh, wound up color coordinating all my floors whenever possible.) The game's title system letting me label him "Your friend, Mr. Black" was just the icing on the cake.

I wound up making pretty much every one of the LP's main cast, so if you want to see how someone specific looks in Ruina feel free to ask?

Show me the Anime Crew (Bishop may or may not be included), I've had some trouble getting their look right.

also my character shut up i definitely was part of the main cast and not a tertiary nobody

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Infinity Gaia posted:

Show me the Anime Crew (Bishop may or may not be included), I've had some trouble getting their look right.

also my character shut up i definitely was part of the main cast and not a tertiary nobody


The anime crew! Naturally in Liu outfits because Malkuth is the floor of burn. Bishop's hair needs a mod. Actually they all kinda do, because fun fact: the "all gifts unlocked" cheat mod also lets other floors use what would otherwise be floor-exclusive Abnormality gifts! :eng101: These guys are pretty much the only ones I did that with, mostly because they looked wrong without their accessories from LobCorp. One Sin's gift being golden in this game just means that Bishop has finally gone Super Saiyan.

And your nugget...



I wound up using Tiph's floor as my shooting gallery. I'd have used Netz instead for the slight optimization benefit, but I'd already gotten them color coordinated and everything.

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Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.


Acerbatus posted:

Footfalls not being in D and Matchlight being in C is the first thing that sticks out to me as weird.

I can't think of a time where you'd ever want to actually use footfalls.

I always assumed that Malkuth's floor is built to crumple zone opponents later in the game with its prevalence of burn damage and stuff that works on DOT's. Footfalls fills the same general space as Teadrop in that regard, I would think, albeit more specialised for single targets.

Of course, this is also in a world where time has changed and that's I assume far from a viable strategy.

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