|
V. Illych L. posted:the issue with libya is that it seems to have been forced by sarkozy when he was horrified that gadaffi would air some dirty laundry, so obama sort of went along with it rather than create it from basically nothing like bush did in iraq
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 13:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 09:06 |
|
|
obama's casus belli for the libyan war was just as ridiculous as the pretext for the iraq war and the aftermath of the libyan invasion resulted in a failed state even worse off than iraq
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 13:37
|
|
|
yeah but the thing with iraq is that it came out of nowhere, it was an entirely proactive move by bush and his crew to create an invasion and occupation out of nothing - libya was in a real sense everybody reacting to events playing out on the ground and scrambling. sure obama wanted to get rid of gadaffi (i went to ineffectively protest against my country's involvement in libya which really was basically decided by five dudes texting each other and then presenting a fait accompli to parliament) but the guy who was really pushing western involvement was sarkozy - obama sort of came along for the ride out of opportunism and hawkishness. this, and obama's alliance with reactionary dictators helping snuff out the arab spring, is really bad poo poo, but it's a different beast to a totally unprovoked invasion of a basically functioning state in order to plunder their riches
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 13:55
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:yeah but the thing with iraq is that it came out of nowhere, it was an entirely proactive move by bush and his crew to create an invasion and occupation out of nothing - libya was in a real sense everybody reacting to events playing out on the ground and scrambling. sure obama wanted to get rid of gadaffi (i went to ineffectively protest against my country's involvement in libya which really was basically decided by five dudes texting each other and then presenting a fait accompli to parliament) but the guy who was really pushing western involvement was sarkozy - obama sort of came along for the ride out of opportunism and hawkishness. this, and obama's alliance with reactionary dictators helping snuff out the arab spring, is really bad poo poo, but it's a different beast to a totally unprovoked invasion of a basically functioning state in order to plunder their riches
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 14:22
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:yeah but the thing with iraq is that it came out of nowhere, it was an entirely proactive move by bush and his crew to create an invasion and occupation out of nothing - libya was in a real sense everybody reacting to events playing out on the ground and scrambling. sure obama wanted to get rid of gadaffi (i went to ineffectively protest against my country's involvement in libya which really was basically decided by five dudes texting each other and then presenting a fait accompli to parliament) but the guy who was really pushing western involvement was sarkozy - obama sort of came along for the ride out of opportunism and hawkishness. this, and obama's alliance with reactionary dictators helping snuff out the arab spring, is really bad poo poo, but it's a different beast to a totally unprovoked invasion of a basically functioning state in order to plunder their riches it's a proven fact that nobody in the west actually knew what was reall happening on the ground in libya and the whole op was the french and the brits taking the opportunity to engage in some good ol' imperialism. obama went along because he and the dems wanted to engage in some good ol' tough guy posturing because the liberal mind is diseased and murderous
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 14:30
|
|
|
if john mccain (or even bush jr) did the exact same things that obama did in bombing libya, you probably would not be defending him in a similar way that you are downplaying obama's actions here
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 14:37
|
|
|
Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 15:09
|
|
|
wrongo
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 16:28
|
|
|
The Muppets On PCP posted:meanwhile jon stewart and stephen colbert openly mocked gay and trans people oh my god i forgot about this
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 16:29
|
|
|
We've got four and a half more years of Trump lmao
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 16:32
|
|
|
If Bush was president during corona the stimulus checks would have been nonrefundable tax credits
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2020 04:18
|
|
|
shovelbum posted:trump, from any perspective, this isn't even a question and that's really saying something because bush slaughtered millions of civilians and destabilized an entire region lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2020 05:43
|
|
|
TrixRabbi posted:Trump has also undone every single environmental regulation you can possibly imagine for no reason other than gently caress you. lots of people apparently have no idea what was going on with the EPA under bush the lesser quote:Johnson's stance on this and other issues was criticized in an editorial by the scientific journal Nature, which claimed he acted with "reckless disregard for law, science or the agency's own rules — or, it seems, the anguished protests of his own subordinates." H.P. Hovercraft has issued a correction as of 20:14 on Jul 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2020 17:15
|
|
|
America cannot be at peace as long as Kissinger lives. But Bush 2 was way worse than Trump.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2020 19:26
|
|
|
I think it's Bush 2, and by think I mean definitely know
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2020 21:39
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ogibWCNKI
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2020 23:02
|
|
|
hmmm. not sure i agree with this op
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 02:03
|
|
|
obviously W is worse than trump, the real question is HW worse than W? i think that, upon reflection of his entire life's work that yes, HW's role in the intelligence community's take over might be worse than W mere implementation of his father's designs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 04:36
|
|
|
P is obviously going to be the worse of the lot
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 04:36
|
|
|
The Muppets On PCP posted:meanwhile jon stewart and stephen colbert openly mocked gay and trans people whats this referring to
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:17
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:whats this referring to
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:47
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:whats this referring to Colbert: quote:"Folks, it’s just like when someone lies to you. Technically, they’re telling you the truth as long as you never find out it was a lie." Stewart: quote:“Here’s a general rule of thumb I have: if you don’t know whether you’ve made a particular mistake more or less than 50 times, that’s not really a mistake. At that point, it’s something you do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:15
|
|
|
no checkbox poll, no goku option what the gently caress, OP
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Colbert: me reading that poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE1HriDzlJs
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
Reagan was worse than both combined.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 14:34
|
|
|
Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 14:47
|
|
|
docbeard posted:Reagan was worse than both combined.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 16:06
|
|
|
Algund Eenboom posted:Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush indigi posted:wrongo
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
Algund Eenboom posted:Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush explain your reasoning so we can berate you you stupid idiot
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 16:49
|
|
|
Most of Trump's actual sins as President are sins of incompetence or neglect, though you can't really discount the deliberate malice of some members of his administration that sails under the radar because everyone's paying attention to "Oh god did he really pose with cans of beans". Bush was actively malicious and knew what he was doing and made sure we knew it too. In terms of body count, Bush is the clear loser. In terms of overall lasting harm to the United States and its standing in the world, it's probably a wash, honestly. Trump probably has the worst cabinet, though it's close. Trump has been awful to live through but the Bush Administration was a loving banal nightmare if you were old enough to be aware of anything that was going on. He was every bit as spiteful and as stupid as Trump, though he was substantially more charming, and Cheney was a psychopath on a level that Pence can only dream of being. Trump is worse at being President. W Bush was a worse President. But nothing either of them have done would have been possible if not for the deeply evil groundwork laid by Nixon and Reagan. They're the granddaddy fiends of the current age.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 18:55
|
|
|
Algund Eenboom posted:Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush this is what liberals actually believe
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2020 20:35
|
|
|
docbeard posted:But nothing either of them have done would have been possible if not for the deeply evil groundwork laid by Carter and Clinton. They're the granddaddy fiends of the current age. Fixed that for you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 00:20
|
|
|
It's bad presidents all the way down.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 01:09
|
|
|
You know that aphorism that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it? If you think Trump is worth than Dubya it's talking about you
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
lol at all the smug idiots itt still arguing about which president is worse loving wankers
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 02:46
|
|
|
John DiFool posted:lol at all the smug idiots itt still arguing about which president is worse lol british people
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
whos worse. pitt 1 or lord palmerston
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 03:30
|
|
|
*slams mug down* pitt the elder
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 04:52
|
|
|
They both suck rear end, the US has barely survived the last 12ish years of Republican presidents. I guess I would say that Bush was worse in terms of foreign policy and Trump is worse in terms of domestic policy, but only because those were respectively the more visible parts of their presidencies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 05:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 09:06 |
|
|
fart simpson posted:explain your reasoning so we can berate you you stupid idiot I think the guy who's said a variation of that a dozen times in the thread might be doing a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2020 09:06
|
|