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I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004




I never got to play Super Metroid when it was first released on SNES decades ago (2024 will be its 30th anniversary). And then just kinda forgot about it and have never really paid attention to the Metroid series. Last week I decided randomly to finally play Super Metroid because it's available on SNES Online for Switch. I finished the game last night and really wanted to share my thoughts. First of all, this game is fantastic. I feel like for an almost 30 year old game, you could honestly release it today as an indie title on Steam, and it would hold up with any other game in this genre released in 2020. There were very few and only ever minor moments where the limitations of the SNES hardware shows through and hurts the immersion of the game. I love the level design a lot, and appreciate how straight forward it is, but still encourages exploration to find hidden secrets. Something will look curious in spot that you can jump to, and ooh look at that! IT'S A SECRET AREA WITH AN UPGRADE! It's blast whenever you get a new ability / weapon, and now you want to go back to other areas and see what new stuff you can find with those new abilities. If there was anything I didn't like, it was that the difficulty of the bosses felt a bit all over the place. I killed all mini-bosses as well, and probably Draygon was the most annoying, while Mother Brain phase 2 was disappointingly the easiest to me. There are easier bosses, but Mother Brain felt like it should have been way harder than it was.

Lastly, Samus is just straight up a badass character in every single way.

I think my next step is to play Metroid Fusion, and then the Metroid Prime trilogy. All games I have never really played before either. Metroid Prime I only played the intro level and then stopped for whatever reason I dont know!

I said come in! fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jul 1, 2020

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Overbite
Jan 24, 2004




Is Nintendo gonna announce Metroid prime trilogy on da switch or not

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.




No. Buy a Wii / U.

But also do that if they do because unless they completely rework the control scheme, woof. It is a testament to how good Metroid Prime is that it's worth learning to deal with that mess, but now that a better way exists no one should ever go back to it.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


Did you kill Draygon the "normal" way or the "secret" way using the grappling hook? The grappling hook method is kinda cheesy but it kills him so quickly that it's hilarious and I was quite impressed that Nintendo actually thought to include something that creative in the game in order to reward players who think outside the box.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013





I beat Metroid 1, 2, and 3 (Super) during my Very Metroid Christmas. It was the first time I had played any of them and it was really neat to see the evolution of the games. 1... has issues but it is a very good idea and plays as well as a game could on that system. It also really makes you feel lost in space like none of the other two do. 2 was an achievement for being all it was on the GB. It's way more scaled down but it features everything you'd want from the series, but yeah Super Metroid was a real revelation. It's so drat good.

I'll probably re-visit the series next Christmas and play Metroid Zero, Fusion and the latest 3DS remake of 2 to wrap up the 2D Metroids. Prime is great but they really had something going with the 2D ones.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

I'm replaying the Primes during quarantine.
The first one is just a stone cold classic masterpiece that I can never decide on, in terms of it being better, equal, or slightly lesser than Super. They're twin peaks.

My feelings for Primes 2 and 3 jostle around so much. Which is better I mean.
2 is definitely more of a proper Metroid game than 3, but on the other hand it can feel like a slog a lot of the time.
3 betrays a lot of Metroid stuff (and the Pirate Homeworld is a super linear crap area).... but it also is way more fun to play than 2 (and Skytown is a super awesome kickass area).

Another shout out to Fusion for being a really cool game.

yeah ok ok yeah
May 2, 2016



Hey OP, if you liked Super Metroid, you should also check out Zero Mission and AM2R. Zero Mission is an update of Metroid 1 and adds and epilogue and is, imo, the best of the 2D Metroids. AM2R is a really drat good fan made version of Metroid II.

Also, Super Metroid is Metroid III. So if you play Zero Mission, AM2R, and Fusion (Metroid 4), you've done the entire mainline series!

Also Prime is really good--I hope you enjoy it!

falz
Jan 29, 2005

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Definitely check out zero mission. It adds some lore to Super Metroid in some of the late parts of the game too.

Pegnose Pete
Apr 27, 2005

the future


Any opinions as to what modern game, indie or otherwise, captures the essence of Super Metroid?
I think of the recent Metroidvanias, I enjoyed Hollow Knight the most, but I'm not sure if it nails (or is trying to) the atmosphere and flow of Super.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.




Uhhh, none, in my experience. There are a fuckton of metroidvanias out there, but Super Metroid being a superlative game to this day implies that nothing else reaches the bar. I adored hollow knight but it's a very different game. Environment Station Alpha is a goon-made one that focuses on exploring a techno-organic environment but the gameplay is nothing like SM.

E: is Cave Story modern?

EE: OP is the second person this year I've seen play SM for the first time and say it was as good as everyone says. Not that this has anything to do with anything, just thought it was neat.

EEE: maybe Axion Verge? I haven't played it but I hear good things.

Some Goon fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jul 6, 2020

yeah ok ok yeah
May 2, 2016



Pegnose Pete posted:

Any opinions as to what modern game, indie or otherwise, captures the essence of Super Metroid?
I think of the recent Metroidvanias, I enjoyed Hollow Knight the most, but I'm not sure if it nails (or is trying to) the atmosphere and flow of Super.

If you have a DS. Aliens: Infestation scratched that Super Metroid itch for me. It's exactly what you'd expect if Aliens was combined with Metroid... it doesn't quite have the spirit of exploration that Metroid has but it captures that hostile atmosphere while exploring a lonely world that the series does so well. It doesn't overstay its welcome either. The final boss sucks, but the rest of the game up to that point is enjoyable.

Also unironically spin-off game for that lovely Tom Cruise The Mummy reboot: The Mummy Demastered. It's more on the Castlevania side of things, though.

falz
Jan 29, 2005

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Some Goon posted:

EEE: maybe Axion Verge? I haven't played it but I hear good things.

Haven't played either but heard good things.

Shadow Complex on 360 is great though. From 2009, looks like it was remastered and re released for newer stuff too.

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004




I hated axiom verge. One of the few games I put down out of disgust at how bad it was.

Poorly designed bosses and weapons are just the start. Having the wall phase ability be bound to double tap left or right makes it very easy to wall phase into a boss. Iím getting annoyed just thinking of axiom verge.

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004




One of the bosses has an attack that is impossible to avoid if it uses it while itís sprite is stretched up a few pixels during its idle animation.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013





Isn't a Robot Named Fight a roguelike Super Metroid? No idea if that is actually good, but there's that.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002



Nothing quite feels like Super Metroid but two recent metroidvanias I really enjoyed are Iconoclasts and Timespinner. Timespinner is a total love letter to Symphony of the Night

Empress Brosephine
Mar 31, 2012


Winner of the "Poor Games Poster" avatar.

i really loved super metroid when i played it first time like three yaers ago. i should try metroid prime again

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Some Goon posted:

Uhhh, none, in my experience. There are a fuckton of metroidvanias out there, but Super Metroid being a superlative game to this day implies that nothing else reaches the bar. I adored hollow knight but it's a very different game. Environment Station Alpha is a goon-made one that focuses on exploring a techno-organic environment but the gameplay is nothing like SM.

E: is Cave Story modern?

EE: OP is the second person this year I've seen play SM for the first time and say it was as good as everyone says. Not that this has anything to do with anything, just thought it was neat.

EEE: maybe Axion Verge? I haven't played it but I hear good things.

Cave Story isn't a Metroidvania though.

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004




There are way more vanias than metroids.

Catellite
Apr 29, 2008


falz posted:

Haven't played either but heard good things.

Shadow Complex on 360 is great though. From 2009, looks like it was remastered and re released for newer stuff too.

Shadow Complex is I think the only recentish one to give me the Metroid feeling of getting a new toy and being excited thinking of the places I could use to to explore further.
Hollow Knight feels a bit too stingy with its modest upgrades, and I tried to like Axiom Verge but that art style was a bit much for me. Its as if they overshot 'weird alien world' and landed on game-long Vinesauce Metroid video.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013





Overbite posted:

There are way more vanias than metroids.

I really think Metroid just requires such perfect level and map design that not a lot people manage it well. And that's before getting into the atmosphere which just doesn't seem to have been reproduced successfully.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


Some Goon posted:

EEE: maybe Axion Verge? I haven't played it but I hear good things.
More than any other game, Axiom Verge gave me the exact same feeling as the very first time I played Metroid--you wake up in this haunting, alien world with no idea why you're there or where to go. It's my favorite indie game to date.

Fabulousity
Dec 29, 2008

= (Displacement through a hetero medium) / Time


Nap Ghost

Guacamelee 1 & 2 are Metroidvania platformer fighter thingies that are worth a look. Really great visual art direction too, it's a very bright and colorful game that's a joy to watch in action.

And who needs morph ball or crawling when you can turn into a chicken?

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

100YrsofAttitude posted:

Isn't a Robot Named Fight a roguelike Super Metroid? No idea if that is actually good, but there's that.

It is! And its actually pretty good. You'll start to notice the cracks after a few runs (multiple different weapons open basically the same door in different ways) but it works extremely well with the multiple different boss and ever increase areas the (solo) developer keeps adding.

Its really worth the $2.60 for the next hour or so before the sale ends.

Casey Finnigan
Apr 29, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔


The Messenger seemed to be completely ignored when it was released but it's actually a really good action platformer/metroidvania. It just takes a while to get into the metroidvania part of it, and a lot of the game is a tribute to the NES Ninja Gaiden.

The humor can be hit or miss at times but it's not obnoxious like it is in Guacamelee.

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004



I wandered the map for about a dozen hours before I realized you had to power bomb the glass tube to get into Maridia. I would just run straight past that spot on the map thinking there was another entrance in the crashed ship.

Wish the ship was bigger, too. They could have expanded upon whatever the ship was about and had more examples of the alienís technology besides the walking robots. But then again this is the SNES and unique art assets come at a premium.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


Coffee Jones posted:

I wandered the map for about a dozen hours before I realized you had to power bomb the glass tube to get into Maridia. I would just run straight past that spot on the map thinking there was another entrance in the crashed ship.
There is an elevator to Maridia passed the Wrecked Ship. Barring speedrun tricks, you do have to blow up the glass tube to progress in Maridia, but the intended path is to take the elevator to Maridia first where you come across the other already-blown tube, which is supposed to clue you into bombing it.

itry
Aug 23, 2019






You should definitely try Zero Mission.

I really like the 2d Metroids. It's a real shame how it's completely ignored by Nintendo. There really isn't any Metroidvania quite like it (that I know of).

Fabulousity posted:

Guacamelee 1 & 2 are Metroidvania platformer fighter thingies that are worth a look. Really great visual art direction too, it's a very bright and colorful game that's a joy to watch in action.

And who needs morph ball or crawling when you can turn into a chicken?

It's nothing like Metroid, but Guacamelee is really fun with some (optional) challenging platforming sections.

Movement is fun and fluid. And there's co-op.

Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012



After having skipped it in the SNES era, and never being able to get into the game on various emulators/re-releases, I finally got further than a few hours and in fact finished Super Metroid over Christmas last year, on the Switch.

It was very good! Still largely felt very modern, except maybe having to go into the menu to change beam weapons. I was surprised at how linear it felt though.

falz
Jan 29, 2005

01100110 01100001 01101100 01111010


Comrade Fakename posted:

I was surprised at how linear it felt though.

Interesting, I mean it is linear in that you have to do things in a certain order to get the right power ups, but most of that is via going back to other areas to get to doors you couldn't get in to before.

Unsure of linear is the best word for that but I see your point.

yeah ok ok yeah
May 2, 2016



Casey Finnigan posted:

The Messenger seemed to be completely ignored when it was released but it's actually a really good action platformer/metroidvania. It just takes a while to get into the metroidvania part of it, and a lot of the game is a tribute to the NES Ninja Gaiden.

The humor can be hit or miss at times but it's not obnoxious like it is in Guacamelee.

The Messenger was a blast and i played the heck out of it! some of the jumping puizzles loving sucked but they were really satisfying to beat

Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012



falz posted:

Interesting, I mean it is linear in that you have to do things in a certain order to get the right power ups, but most of that is via going back to other areas to get to doors you couldn't get in to before.

Unsure of linear is the best word for that but I see your point.

Yeah, linear isn't really the right word, but in general you get into an area, you spend a while doing things in that area, and then you're basically done there and move on. There's the odd optional pickup left, but by and large you tackle one area after another, in order, until you're done. It's not a criticism at all, but considering other Metroidvanias I've played, and the reputation it has, it surprised me.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


One of the major differences between Super Metroid and OG Metroid is that Super has a linear critical path, whereas in OG Metroid you can fight Kraid and Ridley in either order.

So yes, it's a fair comment that Super Metroid is linear, which is why sequence breaking is as interesting as it is. That said, the remarkable design of Super Metroid is that the discovery of the critical path feels organic, rather than just being told where to go. As a player, you spend much of the game evaluating your options to figure out what to do next. It's just that, in practice, aside from extra power ups there's really only one place you can go at any time.

cirus
Apr 5, 2011


Years ago I used to speedrun Super Metroid and loved it. I tried going back after I got into the Prime scene and found the physics much too floaty for my taste. It's interesting how perceptions can change.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Comrade Fakename posted:

Yeah, linear isn't really the right word, but in general you get into an area, you spend a while doing things in that area, and then you're basically done there and move on. There's the odd optional pickup left, but by and large you tackle one area after another, in order, until you're done. It's not a criticism at all, but considering other Metroidvanias I've played, and the reputation it has, it surprised me.

What Metroidvanias do you play where finding all the secret pickups isn't a massive part of the point of retreading old ground?

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Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012



Grape posted:

What Metroidvanias do you play where finding all the secret pickups isn't a massive part of the point of retreading old ground?

Most Metroidvanias Iíve played have involved more toing and froing over previously visited areas as part of the critical path. Crazy speedrunning sequence breaking aside, Super Metroid doesnít do that much.

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