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nobodygetshurt
Dec 11, 2007



Wow. This is growth.
I had also jumped on the make-fun-of-furries bandwagon back in the decade, without actually thinking about what I was actually participating in. And there's no mistaking that homophobia was part of it.

24 year old me was an idiot. 39 year old me is sorry.

[Edit]: JUST noticed the article was taken down. Weird.

nobodygetshurt fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jul 5, 2020

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Ughh
May 4, 2020

by Athanatos


Imagine that article changing your mind lol

nobodygetshurt
Dec 11, 2007



I wasn't clear. I haven't been on the anti-furry bandwagon since I was in my 20s.

It was just nice to see a front page article admitting how messed up it was.

Zombiejack
Jan 16, 2006
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

Ughh posted:

Imagine that article changing your mind lol

Imagine equating laughing at a manchild who masturbates to pictures of ocelots and spent his rent money on a wolf costume to homophobia.

Zombiejack fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jul 6, 2020

Soul Reaver
Mar 8, 2009

in retrospect the old redtext was a little over the top, I think I was in a bad mood that day. it appears you've learned your lesson about slagging our gods and masters at beamdog but I'm still going to leave this av up because i think its funny

god bless


Zombiejack posted:

Imagine equating laughing at a manchild who masturbates to pictures of ocelots and spent his rent money on a wolf costume to homophobia.

Pretty much this.
While I wasn't part of the whole 'furry persecution', I certainly laughed at it, and I guarantee it has nothing to do with how many of them may be homosexual.

Furry fandom is problematic for a whole bunch of reasons completely unrelated to the sexual orientation of its members:

1. It comes awfully close to sexualizing animals. Seeking sexual gratification via animals is considered highly immoral, taboo and illegal in most places in the world, and usually for good reasons. In this way, it's not too different from someone wanting their partner to dress up as and pretend to be a prepubescent boy/girl - sure, it's not actually illegal, but it sure raises some very worrying red flags.

2. While we're talking about sexuality and minors: furry fandom often fixates on things that are traditionally associated with children - anthropomorphic animal cartoon characters and fluffy, furry animals (like big soft toys). Except they then project sexual motives onto those childlike things. I personally doubt this relates to paedophilia directly, but it has the unfortunate consequence of creating a lot of 'fan art' and the like that gets spread all over 'net of characters from children's shows engaging in sexual acts - and furries are PROLIFIC artists. The most likely people to be searching for images of these characters are children, and thus the furry community is inadvertently saturating a child's image search results with sexualized content at an age their parents are not likely to want them exposed to sexualized content.

3. As with any kink, there is a difference between engaging in a kink and displaying it in public. Furries have in the past often shown confusion and/or outrage that they are not embraced with open arms when they display their kink in a public fahsion. Yet most would agree that we would frown on people making their love of bondage known in public too. It's generally considered bad form to involve 'non-involved' people in your sexual fetishes (eg: exhibitionism) as there are issues there with (a lack of) consent.

Then there's the last part of all this: the internet. Somethingawful's tag line has been "the internet makes you stupid", and furry fandom was a prime example of that at work.

Individually, furries would likely have been treated with mockery and derision - in no small part due to the reasons above - and might have abandoned their kink. But the internet gave them a platform to connect with other like-minded individuals. By existing and conversing with other members of the community, they could normalize their kink and behaviour and encourage greater involvement and investment - making it all the harder to abandon the kink and also making them less likely to think it would be treated with anything other than acceptance by the general public.

THAT'S why furries were relentlessly mocked.

Soul Reaver fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Jul 6, 2020

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Soul Reaver posted:

Pretty much this.
While I wasn't part of the whole 'furry persecution', I certainly laughed at it, and I guarantee it has nothing to do with how many of them may be homosexual.

you called them furfags.

qnqnx
Nov 14, 2010



PHIZ KALIFA posted:

you called them furfags.

That was 4chan.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


well in that case you've got nothing to be upset about.

Soul Reaver
Mar 8, 2009

in retrospect the old redtext was a little over the top, I think I was in a bad mood that day. it appears you've learned your lesson about slagging our gods and masters at beamdog but I'm still going to leave this av up because i think its funny

god bless


PHIZ KALIFA posted:

you called them furfags.

I certainly didn't. Yet the article would make it sound like I did. That's probably what I take issue with the most.

I'm sure there are people coming at it from the homophobic angle, and I don't think that's cool or ever was.
If that was your reason to mock them, then yes, you owe them an apology.

But it wasn't why I laughed.

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000



Dinosaur Gum

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

you called them furfags.

furries are bad and so are you

Bronze Fonz
Feb 14, 2019




PHIZ KALIFA posted:

you called them furfags.

You seem to have a problem with not seeing groups of people as homogenous for some reason.

A search of Soul Reaver's username with "fur" reveals they have not, in fact, called them "furfags" at least certainly not here.

I understand it must suck to get so much poo poo for your poo poo article but making poo poo up is not helping you either.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


bronze you've been spamming every thread about me or the front page with your hate for me and lowtax, you've been hassling me in PMs, you are fully loving unhinged.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014



Came up with a joke for the new amended version of the article. Dear Furries, We Werewolf. Feel free to use it free of charge.

Bronze Fonz
Feb 14, 2019




PHIZ KALIFA posted:

bronze you've been spamming every thread about me or the front page with your hate for me and lowtax, you've been hassling me in PMs, you are fully loving unhinged.

I sent you one PM dude, you responded, I responded.
Every thread would be grossly exaggerated as well as "hate".

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


you were trying to start poo poo in discord several days ago, as well. i'm not interested in your critique.

Bronze Fonz
Feb 14, 2019




Jfc "trying to start poo poo" by going WTF is that article and several people were in agreement... lots still seem to be expressing that same sentiment it seems.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


nah, just you in a bunch of ill-fitted costumes

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020
warning: i get triggered by extremely stupid shit

I think anyone would have difficulty growing as a writer if they weren't willing to accept criticism from people who think they're terrible, but that's an especially tough proposition for you in particular

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


"bloo bloo bloo, we've spent days hating and attacking you, in public and PMs, why aren't you accepting our bad faith feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedback!!!"

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


for anyone reading along at home: i've given the feedback i recieved a few days to percolate and i'm working on a response now. plenty of folk reached out in good spirits with helpful pointers about poo poo i hadn't considered when i wrote it.

these two numbnuts are not those folk.

pram
Jun 10, 2001


stop loving posting

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


ask nicer

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020
warning: i get triggered by extremely stupid shit

I think you'd have a hard time classifying my posting as particularly hateful, when it was mostly just letting your own words speak for themselves.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Y'all thought you could make a meal of me with my back turned and now that i've returned from vacation, you've got your noses in my rear end trying to score points.


naaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. if you want to make friends take the knives out of your mouths. try leading with something other than naked hostility for once in your lives.

Spinz
Jan 7, 2020

Party Time! Be excellent to each other.



Wow

You really need to chill out. How can someone see a few other people so obviously overreact to their great detriment and yet absolutely do the same thing.

We all make mistakes. Just stop, let it go and see what happens in the next few weeks.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


nah, this, the other threads, and Discord, is excessive. he knows he's being harassing.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020
warning: i get triggered by extremely stupid shit

Actually I just felt a pang of sympathy knowing what it's like to want to write something meaningful that connects with your community and having neither the skills nor the self-awareness to execute on it. I've worked hard writing something I thought people would at least appreciate only to get trashed; it's upsetting and made me question if I'm entirely delusional or if people were blowing smoke up my rear end when they complimented me before. It is actually very difficult for me to feel this empathy while you're acting like such a lovely, stupid person and I wish you'd stop making me have to think about your sad existence.

Spinz
Jan 7, 2020

Party Time! Be excellent to each other.



I wasn't referring to Fonz. It doesn't matter tho. Everyone needs to take a breath- it's a rough time in the US and here, everything is stressful as gently caress right now.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Daikloktos posted:

Actually I just felt a pang of sympathy knowing what it's like to want to write something meaningful that connects with your community and having neither the skills nor the self-awareness to execute on it. I've worked hard writing something I thought people would at least appreciate only to get trashed; it's upsetting and made me question if I'm entirely delusional or if people were blowing smoke up my rear end when they complimented me before. It is actually very difficult for me to feel this empathy while you're acting like such a lovely, stupid person and I wish you'd stop making me have to think about your sad existence.

i'm not making you do a darn thing, pal.

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020
warning: i get triggered by extremely stupid shit

No at this point I blame the mods

Bronze Fonz
Feb 14, 2019




At least I dropped it. I'm currently annexing Venezuela and it feels great! Try it sometime.

youre
Dec 30, 2019



I didnt get to read the article before it got taken down

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014



PHIZ KALIFA posted:

nah, just you in a bunch of ill-fitted costumes

I thought you were cool with people like that now.

youre
Dec 30, 2019



OK I read it and the only thing wrong with it was it wasn't penned by Roamin' Dad

Zombiejack
Jan 16, 2006
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

Soul Reaver posted:

Pretty much this.
While I wasn't part of the whole 'furry persecution', I certainly laughed at it, and I guarantee it has nothing to do with how many of them may be homosexual.

Furry fandom is problematic for a whole bunch of reasons completely unrelated to the sexual orientation of its members:


THAT'S why furries were relentlessly mocked.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here, I'd also like to note the fandom has endemic issue with stuff which goes way beyond the new more 'socially concious' SA such as Gaslighting, Bestiality, Child pornography and genrally toxic behavoir. The open door policy combined with the strong fetish aspect empowers deeply toxic behavoir. The Keiro the wolf incident shows that the fandom really cannot be trusted to self-police.

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

you called them furfags.

Did I? I was half tempted to use my negative experinces as a girl whose dated girls as a cugel, but truth be told I don't really consider vulgar mid 00's argot an indication of deeper malice, their are and were homophobes who hate furries but that's just a Hitler ate sugar fallacy.

The online etiquete has shunted towards neoliberal/intersectional, which while overall 'nicer' for LGBT we're very much throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.

Zombiejack fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Jul 6, 2020

Literal Nazi Furry
Jan 27, 2008

Swastika - Helvetica - Ikea
Last night I dreamt of Adolf searching for Anne.
I lay on my back
standing alone in the corner watching the girls dance.

I'm on crystal meth.
I piss in my pants.

i accept your apology. thank you for turning a new page

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020
warning: i get triggered by extremely stupid shit

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

you called them furfags.
Did you know Google returns no results for "furfag" until after the advent of 4chan? Whose vernacular calls everything -fag? And that goons of the time were stringent against importing their terminology eg how long it took "meme" to supplant "catchphrase"? Do you have even the most basic sense of the SomethingAwful/4chan cultural schism or is it all just an undifferentiable melange of premodern ironybros to you

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


I never read the article before it was removed, so I want to check here. Okay, furries are off limits now, but are we still allowed to mock Bronies and their desire to gently caress cartoon horse children?

Bifner McDoogle
Mar 31, 2006

Tengo gusto del pene

Daikloktos posted:

Did you know Google returns no results for "furfag" until after the advent of 4chan? Whose vernacular calls everything -fag? And that goons of the time were stringent against importing their terminology eg how long it took "meme" to supplant "catchphrase"? Do you have even the most basic sense of the SomethingAwful/4chan cultural schism or is it all just an undifferentiable melange of premodern ironybros to you

Google never pulls anything up for SA. Furfag got thrown around here a lot, it was a perfect fit for old school SA. Remember that then this forum was not a place to hate the gays (as in monagamous gay couples) so much as a place to hate "the bad gays" (gay people engaging in any kind of kink). I specifically mean hate here, not good natured ribbing.

Really, even if nobody here said furfag this place did kinda draw a literal, deliberate holocaust analogy and made a big show of marking, isolating, ridiculing and banning all the furries instead of just banning them in general. You can say it's for the good of the community, but the SA community is a website run by a wife beater that has a drug forum with a massive body count, so nobody without motivated reasoning would buy it.

I made fun of this article in QCS when it was first posted because, on it's own, it's an unfunny tone-deaf apology that nobody wanted. Really, any furries who got kicked out must consider it a good thing at this point, and the whole thing would have been better if it was more obviously just trolling Lowtax.

But I may have to reconsider that this was accidentally a great article. The degree to which Lowtax and other goons, who famously don't give a poo poo about the front page at all, have melted down at Phiz over this, of all things, is genuinely funny. People are legit harassing the author here, which isn't funny, but the insistence that they don't obsessively hate furries why they obsessively, almost defensively, hate furries has been really funny. Context really is everything in comedy, I guess.

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Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020
warning: i get triggered by extremely stupid shit

Oh yea, it's definitely beside the point, but not remembering myself I'd have assumed anything -fag should be attributed to 4chan. Pretty damning if that's one of the few phrases we readily adopted from them - I wish archives search was working because now I'm curious

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