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Mistaken Identity posted:Today I learned there is sexting in the Bible. The “ivory towers” that bad elites live in come from the Song of Solomon. It’s describing a woman’s neck.
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Nov 5, 2020 08:59
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"Your hair is like a flock of goats leaping down the slopes of Gilead. Your teeth are like a flock of shorn ewes that have come up from the washing, all of which bear twins, and not one among them has lost its young." --Song of Solomon 4 That whole thing is just steamy. I too went to the dentist to fix my teeth into the shape of mother sheep with twins. It gets all the single ladies.
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Nov 5, 2020 09:30
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There's a widespread theory in biblical scholarship that the song of Solomon is derived from sacred Sumerian (ritual?) texts about the divine marriage of the goddess Ishtar. So the weird imagery isn't just people being creative, but has some links to symbolism associated with this fertility goddess.
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Nov 5, 2020 09:37
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It's really kind of worrying that there's a lot of people who look at porn, which is basically a bunch of shortcuts and weird abstractions to make the most appealing (to a certain consumer) sex depiction possible, and go, "Yup, I figure this is exactly what real sex is like." Especially animated porn, where you're not limited to reality. It's like watching James Bond and going, "Yeah that's probably a pretty literal depiction of what spies do." I just... even with younger people, they normally know what the difference between fiction and reality are, but in the case of porn, that poo poo just goes right out the window. 
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Nov 5, 2020 16:45
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Puppy Time posted:It's really kind of worrying that there's a lot of people who look at porn, which is basically a bunch of shortcuts and weird abstractions to make the most appealing (to a certain consumer) sex depiction possible, and go, "Yup, I figure this is exactly what real sex is like." Especially animated porn, where you're not limited to reality. Capitalism.
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Nov 5, 2020 16:50
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Yeah, my girlfriend's theory is that porn is the solution to being unable to really experience your sexuality properly due to having no time and being worn out b/c of capitalism. If have only 15 minutes to cum you need the BIGGEST TITS, the HARDEST COCKS, and the FATTEST ASSES. But like any coping mechanism, it solves a problem, but can generate new ones if it gets normalized and seen as desirable in itself.
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Nov 5, 2020 17:48
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now i'm picturing porn for the flaccid penis demographic
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Nov 5, 2020 18:56
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DicktheCat posted:Hey, this was level-headed, and I appreciate it. I was kind of cranky because I hadn't slept the night before and kind of went off on you, so I'm actually genuinely sorry if my wording caused any upset. No worries, I was definitely the rear end in a top hat in this case.
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Nov 5, 2020 19:27
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Kenning posted:Yeah, my girlfriend's theory is that porn is the solution to being unable to really experience your sexuality properly due to having no time and being worn out b/c of capitalism. If have only 15 minutes to cum you need the BIGGEST TITS, the HARDEST COCKS, and the FATTEST ASSES. But like any coping mechanism, it solves a problem, but can generate new ones if it gets normalized and seen as desirable in itself. I'd say the being worn out from capitalism isn't the only issue, though it's a big drat issue. A lot of heavy porn consumers are people who have issues socializing in real life and could do with some kind of therapy* but for various reasons aren't getting that. Add in the hedonic treadmill and some of these people having more money than sense and you get porn increasingly catering to the weirdest goddamn stuff. (And often the most worrying goddamn stuff.) Like I'm not super worried about porn getting super weird- if people want to get their rocks off to making GBS threads dicknipples, gently caress it, go hog wild- I'm just... nobody should look at porn and think that it's a realistic sexual education, any more than they should look at Rush Hour and think that it's a realistic depiction of police. Like, goddamn. *As could we all.
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Nov 5, 2020 19:29
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Puppy Time posted:any more than they should look at Rush Hour and think that it's a realistic depiction of police i mean let's be completely honest here it would actually own if, rather than being bastards, all cops were pairs of martial-arts-practicing asian men and quippy black guys who exclusively got involved in wild rear end james bond poo poo instead of harassing regular people it may not be a realistic depiction but it's at least one i can get behind, whereas porn is often in the opposite direction
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Nov 5, 2020 19:32
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:i mean let's be completely honest here Oh, same. Porn... eh, most of it isn't aimed at me but I can understand why it's like that. Especially the hentai stuff which is just an ouroboros of weird tropes and a weird belief that women are made of taffy and hollow inside.
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Nov 5, 2020 19:52
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Not to mention the simple stuff porn usually gets wrong. Most women can't achieve orgasm without clitoral stimulation, but most porn has ladies screaming just from jamming it in. So you get women thinking something's wrong with them, and men being lovely lovers. See Come As You Are.
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Nov 5, 2020 22:46
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You don't have to think it's realistic to like it, I think even if people know it isn't realistic they can have their concept of attraction drift because of the media they consume, especially as for a lot of people arousal is a complicated thing that has a lot of overlap with feeling comfortable, feeling familiar can be an impotant part of being able to feel arousal properly and unfamiliarity and nerves can kill it. So in part I think it is an unavoidable progression, sexual media is an artform and all artforms have people who use stylization to communicate their ideas better, and you get, as noted, shortcuts and also particular linguistic quirks of the medium that become standard ways to express things through it. But all of that diverges what is actually on the page or screen from what you would experience with someone else, and I think people can become more accustomed and comfortable with the stylized portrayal than with the thing it is (loosely) based off. I think the problem is in the expectation that your taste in porn or fantasy needs to be the same as what you would experience with someone else, when I think necessarily they cannot really be the same thing because it is highly unlikely you would find someone who is into exactly what you are and chances are if you have a very active fantasy life it's probably pretty divergent from the sort of things you could really do IRL. And that's fine as long as you can deal with that divergence, I think it's wrong, really to conflate porn and sex, like they may superficially scratch the same itch but porn is its own thing too, in the same way fantasy books are different from real life. But there is still this lingering social pressure that people should be able to... fit all their sexual wants into a real life partner, I guess? And that's the only "legit" form of sexuality, that if you have other interests that means you're pathetic in some way. Which I don't think is necessarily a good thing. I think that helps to feed the projection of unrealistic desires onto real people.
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Nov 5, 2020 22:58
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:i mean let's be completely honest here I was late for work again because I got stuck behind a bus that five men were fighting on top of and then one got thrown through my windshield, and when I got to site someone had stolen the bulldozer and driven it through the mafia warehouse next door, and then a huge shirtless man pulled down the scaffolding as someone was running across it and we all get sent home
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Nov 6, 2020 00:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As1Y5O0rLNA Strange Aeons does r/menwritingwomen
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Nov 10, 2020 21:49
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Puppy Time posted:any more than they should look at Rush Hour and think that it's a realistic depiction of police. Like, goddamn. I dunno, Jackie Chan goes into a bar and says slurs, then beats the patrons when they object.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:22
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 Wasn't sure if this was posted already, but wow
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Nov 12, 2020 05:08
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Jesus if women gained an inch the night after getting insinuated they wouldn't need pregnancy tests. Edit: says something that that's not the weirdest poo poo on there
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Nov 12, 2020 05:35
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Also, why does this guy think sperm reach up the fallopian tubes, grab the egg, and bring it back? Not to mention the "tingling". There's just so much going on there.
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Nov 12, 2020 07:17
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The conversation in this thread a few weeks ago about the vaginal vestibule and how the genitals form in the embryo/the location of the urethra inspired me to try to come up with an appropriate metaphor that I want to shop around and get opinions on, relating to the relationship between chromosomes and genitals but also general genetic development: I think a good way to think about the whole chromosome thing is that the chromosomes you inherit, just determine which sliders you get in the character creation screen of your life. Not how they are set, just which ones exist. Then the embryo hits randomise, and anything goes from there. Like "Is this bit gonna be a Clitoris or Glans"? would be one slider, and in the situation mentioned earlier in the thread where the urethra gets plumbed straight through the clitoris rather than ending up separate from it, the slider would have been set around the middle. Allergies that are inherited would also fall into that, with the slider being between "no reaction to this allergen" and "GET THE EPIPEN THIS KID IS gently caress'D". It's always taught as switches, but that's too limiting an idea.
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Nov 12, 2020 07:20
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sticklefifer posted:Also, why does this guy think sperm reach up the fallopian tubes, grab the egg, and bring it back? Not to mention the "tingling". There's just so much going on there. Oh wow there is a joke from grade school I can't google to get right. "Baby grabs penis" gets weird results. Needless to say all the boys knew not to have intercourse with a pregnant woman because her baby would come out and grab you by the donk. All of that cow skull stuff was for years away.
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Nov 12, 2020 07:24
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are motherfuckers in this thread seriously trying to say porn is caused by capitalism, and hasn't been something humans have made since art existed?
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Nov 12, 2020 07:28
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BioEnchanted posted:The conversation in this thread a few weeks ago about the vaginal vestibule and how the genitals form in the embryo/the location of the urethra inspired me to try to come up with an appropriate metaphor that I want to shop around and get opinions on, relating to the relationship between chromosomes and genitals but also general genetic development: I get what you're trying to do but putting it in video game terms is always off-putting and reductive. The sheer number of factors that go into how any particular gene is expressed in the phenotype are massive that even trying to stick with the slider metaphor, the slider would be more like a sphere, except even that is too simple. Gene expression involves a constant reading and re-reading of the genome as something of a recipe that is performed trillions of times as individual cells replicate and follow "instructions" based on where they are physically next to each other and what other outside forces (hormones etc.) are acting or not acting on them. Explaining it in terms of a slider even in a casual way implies a negatively correlated binary that doesn't even come within a galaxy of adequately capturing how a human being becomes a human being (or anything else.) A human and a water bear both share DNA as a baseline development rubric but are vastly different in virtually every possible respect as life forms. Edit: for example, consider teratomas, a type of tumor that tends to form in the ovaries (and sometimes testicles) whose cells can differentiate into all kinds of weird things, including hair follicles and even mature teeth. Like other cancers, it arises due to a misreading of the genome occurring at the cellular level and that error being carried over into new generations of the cells. It's weird as hell but it happens. That's a complex thing to occur, and trying to fit that even obliquely into a "slider" analogy would be torturous. Heath has a new favorite as of 07:47 on Nov 12, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2020 07:29
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That's fair. I was trying to decouple the idea that chromosomes definitely determine the same genitals every time by changing how to visualise it and explaining that there are many inbetween states, but it's one of those things that's really too complex to boil down. Like a gateway into more detailed trans discourse for people who'd failed to decouple the idea and still stuck to XY=MAN XX=WOMAN. The metaphor failed to take into account also that every cell is reading the genome individually, rather than all following the same exact instructions.
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Nov 12, 2020 07:45
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StillFullyTerrible posted:are motherfuckers in this thread seriously trying to say porn is caused by capitalism, and hasn't been something humans have made since art existed? What? No?
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Nov 12, 2020 07:48
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seriously though, i'm willing to bet a lot of the dudes who thought sex works like in hentai had some Abstinence Only sex ed poo poo growing up
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Nov 12, 2020 07:49
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DicktheCat posted:What? No? Puppy Plane and Biplane and Kenning('s girlfriend) did it yo Like, there are a shitload of awful problems with the porn industry that are caused by capitalism (human trafficking, rampant drug abuse, mistreatment of laborers), but porn itself being caused by capitalism is some galaxy brain poo poo. StillFullyTerrible has a new favorite as of 07:57 on Nov 12, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2020 07:50
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StillFullyTerrible posted:are motherfuckers in this thread seriously trying to say porn is caused by capitalism, and hasn't been something humans have made since art existed? No, just that porn is influenced by capitalism.
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Nov 12, 2020 07:59
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yeah but p sure love of the BIGGEST TITS and FATTEST ASSES predates capitalism by a real fuckin long time
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Nov 12, 2020 08:03
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We were talking about the specific gonzo elements of modern commercial porn. Also, I don't think that it's reasonable to consider Neolithic Venuses porn.
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Nov 12, 2020 08:12
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Why isn't it reasonable tho
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Nov 12, 2020 08:16
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StillFullyTerrible posted:Why isn't it reasonable tho IIRC, a current theory is that they were self-portraits by pregnant women looking at their own bodies without the aid of reflective surfaces; the proportions closely match what such a woman would look like from her own perspective. There isn't a lot of evidence that they were created for sexual arousal, as far as I know.
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Nov 12, 2020 08:31
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StillFullyTerrible posted:Puppy Plane and Biplane and Kenning('s girlfriend) did it yo I think they're saying that the unrealistic aspects of modern porn are a byproduct of capitalism, not that capitalism literally invented porn.
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Nov 12, 2020 08:33
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StillFullyTerrible posted:Why isn't it reasonable tho I don't wanna nut when I see them.
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Nov 12, 2020 08:35
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Fister Roboto posted:I think they're saying that the unrealistic aspects of modern porn are a byproduct of capitalism, not that capitalism literally invented porn. This is also patently false though. Look at ancient japanese, greek, and other such art. Giant fuckin dicks and buttsex all over the place. poo poo has always been unrealistic. Kenning posted:I don't wanna nut when I see them. sounds like a you problem
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Nov 12, 2020 08:37
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BioEnchanted posted:That's fair. I was trying to decouple the idea that chromosomes definitely determine the same genitals every time by changing how to visualise it and explaining that there are many inbetween states, but it's one of those things that's really too complex to boil down. Like a gateway into more detailed trans discourse for people who'd failed to decouple the idea and still stuck to XY=MAN XX=WOMAN. The metaphor failed to take into account also that every cell is reading the genome individually, rather than all following the same exact instructions. It comes down to how curious the person is on their own terms. I think it almost has to be approached by establishing gender as behavioral and making sure to hold it as distinct-from-but-interrelated-to sex, which is a whole level of nuance that isn't available to the vast majority of people to begin with. This muddies things for people who are not already bought into the idea that sex and gender aren't essentially the same thing but are heavily correlated - i.e. the vast majority of XX individuals develop a feminine gender identity, obviously, or else this wouldn't even be a discussion. There's an intersex condition which is super fascinating to me called androgen insensitivity syndrome that is very rare but has potential implications for our understanding of the relationship between genotype expression and hormonal response in determining the development of the person.  Everyone in this photo is male. They're all XY, but for whatever reason, the androgens produced by their testicles just don't act on their cells, and they developed female secondary sex characteristics (breast growth, scanty body hair, female body shape.) Their testicles don't descend into a scrotum but remain within the pelvic cavity, and they don't develop a uterus or cervix but do develop otherwise female external genitals with labia and a vagina. This isn't always the case, as AIS, like most complicated human things, operates on a spectrum, with "partial" AIS accounting for some intersex conditions like the urethral meatus (your pee hole) developing on the underside of the glans of the penis. What's really interesting about complete AIS as seen above is that all of those women developed a feminine gender identity. They were raised as girls, became women, and probably had no idea that they had testicles until they hit puberty and grew boobs and hair but didn't menstruate. To my knowledge none of them experienced a shift in gender identity, seeing as they're all adults and no one would look at them and see anything but a cis woman. So what does all that mean? Depends on where you're asking the question - in terms of the individual, that's between them and their doctor; but in the abstract discussion of sex and gender, it poses a lot of questions about which forces exert themselves, and to what degree, and the mechanisms by which they act upon the brain in the development of a gender identity vis-a-vis physical sex. If nothing else it stands as proof that being male is not the same as being a man, because all of those women are unequivocally male. They also pose some questions about what being cis or trans means - can you meaningfully describe any of those women as trans or cis? They've had the gender experience of a cis woman from birth, so they're not trans, really, since that implies a transition; but being cisgender carries the implication of a conformity between gender and sex, which isn't the case here either, since their femininity is the result of a diagnosable medical condition. They're not genderfluid or queer by the usual metrics, either - they have a consistently feminine gender expression. Just calling them intersex is sidestepping the question. The really interesting question is whether someone with CAIS is even capable of developing a masculine gender identity, and from what I can see there is very little literature on the subject (exactly one person is described; virtually everyone else appears to develop a feminine gender identity.) The condition is so rare that sample sizes are going to be vanishingly small. And none of this takes much into account with regard to intersex people with partial AIS, who may be otherwise basically a cis masculine man but have a micropenis, and everything in between. That's a lot of poo poo to think about with regard to what gender development means, and so much of it is relatively new in the discourse such that having a meaningful discussion about it with most people, in my experience, just overwhelms someone who isn't already willing to listen and think about it, and the vast majority of those people are not coming at it from a place of curiosity, but instead some gut reaction to nonsense about bathrooms and sexual propriety. I think just starting with very basic and broad questions about what it means to be a man or woman that undermine the gender essentialist notions that most people carry is a good way to start to break through and widen the discussion. The vast majority of people live in the simple cisgender world where boys have a weewee and girls have a hooha, so that's where you have to start. *"Condition" here intended as "condition of being" and not in the pathological sense
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Nov 12, 2020 09:16
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THinking about it, would a better metaphor be that the cells are individual chefs trying to follow the same recipe, with variation in how that turns out? Like one cell could have the instruction to add 50g of flour or whatever, and some cells would add exactly that, but some would add 52g or 48g or even go way above to 60, and while that may have an effect other cells that did the same also upped the butter to compensate, some of them may have accidentally grabbed the salt or sugar instead of flour and had a completely different outcome? That sort of thing?
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Nov 12, 2020 09:21
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StillFullyTerrible posted:Puppy Plane and Biplane and Kenning('s girlfriend) did it yo Hey awful app colors my name when written, giving me a tiny dose of the good brain chemicals, neat
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Nov 12, 2020 09:29
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Biplane posted:Hey awful app colors my name when written, giving me a tiny dose of the good brain chemicals, neat Yeah it's weird for me when people are having discussions around the Matrix or Sandman.
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Nov 12, 2020 14:46
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BioEnchanted posted:THinking about it, would a better metaphor be that the cells are individual chefs trying to follow the same recipe, with variation in how that turns out? Like one cell could have the instruction to add 50g of flour or whatever, and some cells would add exactly that, but some would add 52g or 48g or even go way above to 60, and while that may have an effect other cells that did the same also upped the butter to compensate, some of them may have accidentally grabbed the salt or sugar instead of flour and had a completely different outcome? That sort of thing? What if it's a chef and hundreds of monkeys. The chef has a recipe, and the monkeys each are trained to grab/add one ingredient. But, each monkey also likes to eat the ingredients some of the other monkeys have, and so they will steal things back and forth from each other, and from the kitchen table. Also monkey is one of the ingredients.
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