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pop fly to McGillicutty posted:I love posts like this. "Don't question the empire or else your life is forfeit" is how I read it. You act like discussion of what's wrong is verboten. He's not wrong either. Whining about obviously broken systems while hiding behind your child as justification for risk-aversion is pretty loving impotent. Don't get me wrong I'm absolutely guilty of the exact same thing, I'm just not lying to myself about what that makes me-- a spineless, domesticated coward. History will point to people like us and say we're some of the worst people of this era, and they'll be largely right.
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Jul 7, 2020 13:31
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mind the walrus posted:He's not wrong either. Whining about obviously broken systems while hiding behind your child as justification for risk-aversion is pretty loving impotent. Don't get me wrong I'm absolutely guilty of the exact same thing, I'm just not lying to myself about what that makes me-- a spineless, domesticated coward. History will point to people like us and say we're some of the worst people of this era, and they'll be largely right. unless you plan to go full unibomber there is nothing an individual can do to physically fight the state. stop suggesting it your an idiot
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Jul 7, 2020 13:33
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Rutibex posted:maybe they should kill some current americans and take their houses over. then they would have the legitimate right to stay by the traditions of america Have you seen the average international student? They couldn't conquer a 5 dollar Hot-N-Ready, let alone the most powerful military, and the best-armed populace, in the history of civilization. (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 7, 2020 13:45
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Rutibex posted:unless you plan to go full unibomber there is nothing an individual can do to physically fight the state. stop suggesting it your an idiot
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Jul 7, 2020 13:50
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The Persian Funk posted:Have you seen the average international student? They couldn't conquer a 5 dollar Hot-N-Ready, let alone the most powerful military, and the best-armed populace, in the history of civilization. lol stfu dweeb
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Jul 7, 2020 13:50
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Welcome to CSPAM, thread. Squizzle is your god now.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:20
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im gonna sticky this thread for a day or three. no real reason, im just trying to welcome the new arrival
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Jul 7, 2020 14:22
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and i know its bad form to nail someone for a post made before the thread was moved here so im only going to probe The Persian Funk
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Jul 7, 2020 14:36
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:Welcome to CSPAM, thread. Squizzle is your god now. hmm cspam huh neat good to finally be posting here welp bye
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Jul 7, 2020 15:10
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You guys are missing the forest for the trees here. This order isn't aimed at China or at international students in general, though yes, international students are an easy target for this administration because of racism. It's aimed at universities themselves, to force them to open back up in a hybrid format offering enough in-person classes that international students don't get deported. It's no coincidence that Trump tweeted an all-caps tweet that schools must reopen in the fall around the time ICE released this. It's part of the administration forcing the country to reopen as if Covid is over. And considering how much higher ed depends on international student tuition, it's likely going to be very effective at forcing universities to do that, because the risk of international students dropping out and not paying tuition will blackmail universities into reopening even if they don't want to. It's also possible, though, that this could be held up in court at least through the fall term when the inevitable lawsuits start and judges grant stays on the rule. Universities have been operating based on the assumption that ICE would continue what they did during the spring, when universities went online on very short notice and ICE announced they wouldn't enforce the prohibition on all-online classes for universities that went online because of the pandemic. You can imagine this being the sort of thing that courts would see poorly in that light, especially given the Supreme Court recently overturning the administration's DACA repeal because it was done arbitrarily and capriciously. I feel like lawyers for the ACLU or Harvard University or whoever wants to challenge this could pretty easily make a similar argument about this announcement, especially coming with so little time between now and the start of the new school term (most schools start in September but some start in mid-August). Schools have been working on plans for Covid teaching for months now, and if their planning concluded with all-online classes like it did at Harvard and some other schools, or even with a hybrid delivery mechanism that doesn't have enough in-person classes for international students to all get one, then they could argue that having to change that on a few weeks' notice is an arbitrary and unreasonable imposition. Call your senators and yell at them but also if you want to fight this be prepared to donate to the lawyers who I'm sure are writing up legal challenges to this loving bullshit as we speak.
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Jul 7, 2020 15:15
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Hammerite posted:is that like a legal declaration? or can they turn around any time they want and say "oh well we didn't really mean 100% online for immigration purposes, oh deary me no" they can but the practical impact of this would be to force universities to hold in-person classes in the middle of a pandemic, even though those schools have already made arrangements for all-online teaching after determining that in-person classes are unsafe for students and staff
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Jul 7, 2020 16:17
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Main Paineframe posted:they can they can require professors to offer an online option but allow in-person attendance w draconian limitations on how many people can be in a building. technically not online-only, but effectively
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Jul 7, 2020 16:20
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I'm terrified of this, my fiance is an international student studying in the US. While she needs to access the lab in person for her research, the classes she's TA'ing have been online only. Everything is up in the air, and on top of everything else right now, we didn't really need this added stress.
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Jul 7, 2020 16:59
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this is probably a galaxy brain take but this smells like an attempt from the trump admin to scare colleges into OPEN ER UP this fall so they can continue pretending that covid does not exist.
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Jul 7, 2020 17:38
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Too Many Birds posted:this is probably a galaxy brain take but this smells like an attempt from the trump admin to scare colleges into OPEN ER UP this fall so they can continue pretending that covid does not exist. this is absolutely what is happening. this tweet came out at almost the exact same time as the ICE announcement https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280209946085339136
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Jul 7, 2020 17:59
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Too Many Birds posted:this is probably a galaxy brain take but this smells like an attempt from the trump admin to scare colleges into OPEN ER UP this fall so they can continue pretending that covid does not exist. I'm seeing on Twitter that a lot of professors and instructors are considering workarounds like courses that require one in-person, socially distanced meeting per term. Unfortunately, the higher education labor force has been so casualized / adjunctified that I'm not sure they'll be able to make it happen on any large scale. Relatedly, it also remains to be seen if administrations will go along with it. My impression is that most university leadership is deathly afraid of potential liability and will do anything to avoid taking a stand on virtually any issue. Maybe they'll grow a spine now that "their" money is being threatened? It's hard to say. This is going to be a shitshow.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:00
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gloom posted:I'm seeing on Twitter that a lot of professors and instructors are considering workarounds like courses that require one in-person, socially distanced meeting per term. Unfortunately, the higher education labor force has been so casualized / adjunctified that I'm not sure they'll be able to make it happen on any large scale. Relatedly, it also remains to be seen if administrations will go along with it. My impression is that most university leadership is deathly afraid of potential liability and will do anything to avoid taking a stand on virtually any issue. Maybe they'll grow a spine now that "their" money is being threatened? It's hard to say. This is going to be a shitshow. yeah i was thinking that they could work around this by just having a facility member in the same room as a student while they plug away on their laptop/pc/tablet. campuses are big places and there can't be that many foreign students that they wouldn't be able to effectively spread them out around it. obviously not an ideal solution because the risk of covid transmission is still there but if the brownshirts want to play their loving fashy games then so be it.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:04
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microaggressions posted:I'm terrified of this, my fiance is an international student studying in the US. While she needs to access the lab in person for her research, the classes she's TA'ing have been online only. Everything is up in the air, and on top of everything else right now, we didn't really need this added stress. drat put (another) ring on it already
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Jul 7, 2020 18:24
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BrassRoots posted:100% online courses and you get to live in the country sounds like a visa scam run by universities. If I was an enterprising young adult I would move to America then farm out the actual course work to some kid in Bangladesh. I have no idea what you are trying to say. What if you were an enterprising young adult from Bangladesh? You would move to the US to exploit people in your own country? I don't think so. It's not a surprising thought from someone that's from the US though, because that's exactly what a lot of companies do here.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:46
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Frankenstyle posted:Let's be honest and admit that getting a degree from a third world failed country isn't exactly marketable on the world stage. So while it's true that ICE is the capitalist gestapo, can you really say that not blowing money on a degree from a US school is a bad thing? Read what you wrote. You say that getting a degree from a third world failed country isn't marketable. US degrees are a lot of money, but yes, a lot of higher paying jobs look for those degrees. Of course it would be an attractive option to get a degree from the US. Many colleges and universities offer a scholarship to international students to make it less expensive.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:51
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Actually a visa to the country you live in does give you a right to live there you jive turkey
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Jul 7, 2020 20:17
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e: never mind
Good Sphere has issued a correction as of 23:46 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:23
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Updated OP with link to petition which you should sign right now and instructions with how to contact your representative for any US state.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:34
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Good Sphere posted:Updated OP with link to petition which you should sign right now and instructions with how to contact your representative for any US state. Sorry about the thread move I just didn't want idiots shitposting in a good thread.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:38
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gloom posted:My impression is that most university leadership is deathly afraid of potential liability and will do anything to avoid taking a stand on virtually any issue. Maybe they'll grow a spine now that "their" money is being threatened? It's hard to say. This is going to be a shitshow. I work pretty closely with this issue and it already is my dude. if my institution is any indication, your first impression is correct.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:39
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gloom posted:It's this and what vyelkin said, long term it's a power play to damage publicly funded universities and make them look bad. As most people here probably know, due to funding cuts and administrative bloat in the last 20-30 years a lot of state systems have come to rely on international students for revenue. This regulation takes that revenue and holds it hostage to force universities to OPEN 'ER UP. If they do, they help carry on the charade that everything is normal, and probably take some of the blame for inevitably spreading the disease. Parents of a dead kid are going to blame the institution at least a little bit, even if they know it's mainly the fault of the federal government. And if the universities don't open, they're aiding and abetting xenophobia, and risking that (some) students will go to universities that do. Either way I imagine a whole generation of Chinese college students is going to think hard about maybe going to Canada or Australia / New Zealand instead. My tiny old college plans to do on campus with full social distancing, which they can (maybe) do because they are isolated in the middle of nowhere and have the capacity for more than twice their current student population. I imagine universities that have urban campuses will be forced to stay mostly online just to avoid the PR nightmare of thousands of students getting sick. Public universities in particular are screwed though if their state's governor is going full megadeath in addition to Trump.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:43
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:Sorry about the thread move I just didn't want idiots shitposting in a good thread. That’s okay, here is fine. I’m actually surprised about the lack of idiots when it was there. It was well received.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:51
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Good Sphere posted:That is so beside that point that I don't even think you took the time to examine the problem at hand here. they are responding to the probated moron i think
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Jul 7, 2020 23:38
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babypolis posted:they are responding to the probated moron i think You’re right. I read that wrong. Edited
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Jul 7, 2020 23:46
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I know many current international students who are terrified about what this means and have been worrying nonstop since the announcement. Several of them escaped abjectly terrible living conditions and at least one escaped an abusive family in China through international study. The thought of being forced back after coming so far just because of this pettiness is earth-shattering to them. Never forget the real human cost of these sorts of policy changes and please email your congressperson and sign the petition in the OP.
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Jul 8, 2020 00:44
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Good Sphere posted:Read what you wrote. You say that getting a degree from a third world failed country isn't marketable. US degrees are a lot of money, but yes, a lot of higher paying jobs look for those degrees. Of course it would be an attractive option to get a degree from the US. Many colleges and universities offer a scholarship to international students to make it less expensive. Pretty sure they were dissing the USA as a soon-to-be third world failed country that will not be able to present the prestige required for the degrees to have a marketability value worth the risk of getting COVID, getting run over, getting attacked for being the wrong color, or all the other risks that manifest when a country experiences a turbulent transition period from being a global power to being one of the shitholes its leaders malign. I don't think the collapse in value will happen quite that quickly. I do think this could inspire academic flight and brain drain to other places. If I were a competing country I'd be seriously looking at poaching as much US education talent as possible.
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Jul 8, 2020 00:45
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microaggressions posted:I'm terrified of this, my fiance is an international student studying in the US. While she needs to access the lab in person for her research, the classes she's TA'ing have been online only. Everything is up in the air, and on top of everything else right now, we didn't really need this added stress. get married asap. im in an international relationship too and we are gonna just do the paperwork this month
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Jul 8, 2020 06:23
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Youth Decay posted:Public universities in particular are screwed though if their state's governor is going full megadeath in addition to Trump. These tend to be chud states and guess who they won't blame
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Jul 8, 2020 07:24
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https://twitter.com/myeshachou/status/1280670088077676546?s=20
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Jul 8, 2020 10:17
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Hopefully the DOJ will file a lawsuit. They typically don't look kindly at people thumbing their nose at the law. Another option would be for the Dept. of Ed. to withhold funding - such as student loans. The schools wouldn't be such tough guys then, and would get in line REAL quick. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) The Persian Funk has issued a correction as of 13:27 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 13:24
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The Persian Funk posted:Hopefully the DOJ will file a lawsuit. They typically don't look kindly at people thumbing their nose at the law. Another option would be for the Dept. of Ed. to withhold funding - such as student loans. The schools wouldn't be such tough guys then, and would get in line REAL quick. wait, you support this thinly veiled xenophobic bullshit?
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Jul 8, 2020 14:29
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corgski posted:wait, you support this thinly veiled xenophobic bullshit? the guy who autobanned 10 years ago only to give lowtax 10 more dollars 3 days ago once it came out lowtax was an abuser? yeah, I think he's probably poo poo!
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Jul 8, 2020 15:50
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Famethrowa posted:the guy who autobanned 10 years ago only to give lowtax 10 more dollars 3 days ago once it came out lowtax was an abuser?  dipshit needs an alt check imo
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Jul 8, 2020 16:01
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Harvard and MIT sues Trump administration:quote:"The order came down without notice—its cruelty surpassed only by its recklessness. It appears that it was designed purposefully to place pressure on colleges and universities to open their on-campus classrooms for in-person instruction this fall, without regard to concerns for the health and safety of students, instructors, and others," Harvard University President Larry Bacow said.
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Jul 8, 2020 16:27
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what's the average family income of foreign students in the US? because I bet it's not a class anyone would shed tears for if they were citizens. edit: quote:Most of the international students pay for their American education, which is the most expensive in the world, with personal or family funds. About 20 percent receive funding from their respective American institution, while a smaller percentage receives funding from colleges or governments in their home countries. quote:In SY 2016–17, about two-thirds of all international students received most of their educational funding from sources outside the United States: 60 percent relied on personal and family funding, and another 6 percent primarily used foreign government or university aid. The remaining 34 percent financed their education primarily through current employment, U.S. university or government aid, or other sources. quote:The IIE report found that close to two in three international students use family money to fund their education. And given that one year at NYU for tuition, room and board, and fees costs $66,022, it would take the average Chinese family—with a yearly income of $2,100—decades to save enough money to afford attendance there. That suggests that many international students at American colleges aren’t exactly middle class by their nations’ standards. Won't somebody please think of the international elite??? unlimited shrimp has issued a correction as of 16:57 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 16:33
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