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Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


Regarding the concern of lack of incentive and progression from battles, it seems like they might have actually addressed that this time around according to leaked copies of the game.

Coins can be used to permanently upgrade your stats. Why they didn't reveal this in marketing is beyond me.

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Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

Martman posted:

I think a big part of what appeals to me about the Paper Mario "vibe" is the shifting of Mario, as a character, more towards his origins. No matter how good a game is I am kind of weirded out at how far he's otherwise shifted into "Hey Ha WOWWWW IT's a MARIO TIME!!!! YEAH!!!!!! I'MA SCREAMING ITALIAN!!!!!! LETSAGO" Mario should just be a dude who's here to help out

I want Gravel Voiced Captain Lou Albano Mario.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

Araxxor posted:

Regarding the concern of lack of incentive and progression from battles, it seems like they might have actually addressed that this time around according to leaked copies of the game.

Coins can be used to permanently upgrade your stats. Why they didn't reveal this in marketing is beyond me.

Wow this is really re-assuring Iím super glad this is the case.

Vookatos
May 2, 2013


Araxxor posted:

Regarding the concern of lack of incentive and progression from battles, it seems like they might have actually addressed that this time around according to leaked copies of the game.

Coins can be used to permanently upgrade your stats. Why they didn't reveal this in marketing is beyond me.

Thatís super cool! Having exploration, minigames and battles all matter is a great idea

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Araxxor posted:

Coins can be used to permanently upgrade your stats. Why they didn't reveal this in marketing is beyond me.

the online-maligned Paper Marios have sold more or less as well as TTYD (Colour Splash kind of balances out if you account for how few Wii Us sold), so they probably just don't see the point

as much as I agree with some criticisms of SS and CS, I think the reality is that how "bad" those games are for not having as many numbers going up isn't as loud an opinion as your favorite echo-chamber would lead you to believe

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Araxxor posted:

Regarding the concern of lack of incentive and progression from battles, it seems like they might have actually addressed that this time around according to leaked copies of the game.

Coins can be used to permanently upgrade your stats. Why they didn't reveal this in marketing is beyond me.

If this is the case then everything is fine.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend



Araxxor posted:

Regarding the concern of lack of incentive and progression from battles, it seems like they might have actually addressed that this time around according to leaked copies of the game.

Coins can be used to permanently upgrade your stats. Why they didn't reveal this in marketing is beyond me.

I'm pretty sure the gamexplain guys said that there's no stat upgrades or anything just Olivia saying "you look stronger" after boss fights and you being able to instant kill weaker enemies.

Did they just miss a mechanic entirely or

LiefKatano
Aug 31, 2018

I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!!


Bleck posted:

as much as I agree with some criticisms of SS and CS, I think the reality is that how "bad" those games are for not having as many numbers going up isn't as loud an opinion as your favorite echo-chamber would lead you to believe

I'd agree with this. If absolutely nothing else, there's way bigger problems with Color Splash (imo) than not having an EXP system (besides Hammer Scraps but... how much did that even affect things? I'm genuinely curious).

Also I can't say I'd blame Nintendo for rolling EXP into coins, if only because I feel like a decent amount of games kind of have money become fairly worthless sooner rather than later. There's exceptions, sure, but...

fakeish edit: also yeah I want to confirm: are the "cash for stat boosts" for things like accessories (which were revealed pre-release) or can you actually upgrade Mario's innate stats by using coins?

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

I'm pretty sure the gamexplain guys said that there's no stat upgrades or anything just Olivia saying "you look stronger" after boss fights and you being able to instant kill weaker enemies.

Did they just miss a mechanic entirely or

No, Gamexplain was right. People mustíve confused being able to buy accessories as stat upgrades.

Apparently most battles arenít avoidable, which I guess is how Intelligent Systems decided to ďsolveĒ the ďrunning away from everythingĒ issue. Clearing battles either open up parts of the world, or the pre-existing encounters are nearly impossible to avoid with how fast they can catch up to Mario.

Araxxor fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jul 11, 2020

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD



Maybe they think the gameplay will be fun and you wonít want to spend all your time avoiding it.

LiefKatano
Aug 31, 2018

I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!!


I mean, I would hope the game devs would think that the gameplay of their game is fun and you wouldn't want to spend your time actively avoiding it.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

Go ahead and pull the trigger, I'll never stop being a troll


On the other hand, that would mean thinking sticker star was fun and that bodes poorly.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


Well it's clearly very a different battle system this time around, so that can't really be compared there. The question is will this system hold up? Hopefully it will.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

Araxxor posted:

Well it's clearly very a different battle system this time around, so that can't really be compared there. The question is will this system hold up? Hopefully it will.

Yeah I think if done right the battle system should be more like fun puzzle mini games than RPG battles, Iím cautiously optimistic for the battle system.

Vookatos
May 2, 2013


LiefKatano posted:

I'd agree with this. If absolutely nothing else, there's way bigger problems with Color Splash (imo) than not having an EXP system (besides Hammer Scraps but... how much did that even affect things? I'm genuinely curious).

Quite a bit. It's effectively just your strength upgrades and if you're incredibly underleveled, you're doing barely any damage. I had issues with Bowser on myfirst playthrough and two levels really helped there.

Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl


Bleck posted:

the online-maligned Paper Marios have sold more or less as well as TTYD (Colour Splash kind of balances out if you account for how few Wii Us sold), so they probably just don't see the point

as much as I agree with some criticisms of SS and CS, I think the reality is that how "bad" those games are for not having as many numbers going up isn't as loud an opinion as your favorite echo-chamber would lead you to believe

None of them have sold anywhere near what super paper mario did, though.

Meanwhile, you can put a decent chunk of damage for any given wii u game on the wii u itself, but causing your sales to be less than 10% of the supposed ideal is pushing things a fair amount. It's a bit hard to find a solid comparison, but I guess the best is probably Xenoblade? It was pretty much the ideal of cult classic until the switch came around. Xenoblade X sold about a third of Xenoblade 1, around double what Color Splash sold.

As for Sticker Star, it pretty much benefited from people buying it because they assumed it'd be good due to the name. It's a pretty common phenomenon. It's usually followed with the next game selling like dogshit, regardless of whether or not it's good, or even just better than the predecessor. Like Color Splash did.

Supremezero fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jul 12, 2020

LiefKatano
Aug 31, 2018

I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!!


Vookatos posted:

Quite a bit. It's effectively just your strength upgrades and if you're incredibly underleveled, you're doing barely any damage. I had issues with Bowser on myfirst playthrough and two levels really helped there.

Wait, do hammer scrap levels actually upgrade the damage you deal or is it just more paint -> able to paint more cards, especially in long fights -> higher damage because your cards are painted more?

Vookatos
May 2, 2013


LiefKatano posted:

Wait, do hammer scrap levels actually upgrade the damage you deal or is it just more paint -> able to paint more cards, especially in long fights -> higher damage because your cards are painted more?

Yeah, it's just ability to paint better and more.

Dr.D-O
Jan 3, 2020


All I want from this game is fun gameplay and clever/funny writing. That's what I got out of the first two games (plus most of the Mario & Luigi games).

If one of those components is lacking, like the very un-fun platforming/adventure game mechanics in Super Paper Mario, then I'm out.

I feel like this is how most online detractors feel about this series, but they tend to express it in terms of adherence to the overall structure set by the first two games (e.g., must be an RPG, must be turn-based, must have companions in battle, etc.) rather than an adherence to the strengths of the series (i.e., funny dialogue, fun gameplay loop).

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

LiefKatano posted:

I mean, I would hope the game devs would think that the gameplay of their game is fun and you wouldn't want to spend your time actively avoiding it.

There is a quote from Tanabe about Color Splash where he said he didn't consider battles the main gameplay, and were just hurdles to get by in-between it. So at least for that game it sounds like they were supposed to be an annoyance that broke up everything else. If there are way more mandatory fights that presumably isn't what they're going for in this game though, at least hopefully.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

Hey guys just a heads up, if any of you are planning to buy this game and are american and live near a Walmart, you can get the game for 10$ off if you purchase it in-store and are willing to brave the creaming hordes of Karenís in your path.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/p...e/1100-6479651/

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

Relinquish your foolish
delusions of control.





Al-Saqr posted:

willing to brave the creaming hordes of Karenís in your path.


Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.


HAHAHAHHAHA


Lol


Reviews are coming out soon hopefully, Im cautiously optimistic, if the game gets a general 8/10 across the board I'll purchase it.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

It looks like the illegal leaks of Paper Mario is now playable on PC via emulator.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ng-played-on-pc

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

REVIEWS ARE OUT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBT0XlKGE7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lM7E4MtuWY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPfq3ZWqENM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGu8-8PpK_4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPfq3ZWqENM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEq5ADGXrf8

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-quite-stand-up

The game seems very divisive it generally seems to be hovering between 7.5 - 9 out of ten, which is pretty good!

Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jul 15, 2020

mancalamania
Oct 23, 2008


Excited to play the cute Paper game and actively engage in every battle presented to me as the fools cry about not being properly incentivized. "No EXP!" they cry as I play the fun puzzle-centric turn-based combat with a huge grin on my face.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012




This game seems extremely charming and funny but I can't help but think that the battles are going to get really tedious after a while. The ring-based system seems clever but I feel like I'm just going to get tired of it a lot faster than I'd get tired of a more straightforward turn-based combat system.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

Overall the average score is at where I expected it to land (8/10) so it meets my criteria score-wise and I'm in the mood for a simple fun story adventure, I'm already getting my Thousand-year door itch getting scratched with 'Bug Fables' so I'm perfectly happy to pick it up and see what laughs I can get out of this game.

not a bot
Jan 9, 2019


So basically a Paper Mario game with regular battles getting a bit tedious as the game progresses, gripes about exp not being a thing and a lot of praise for the humour and puns. I'll take it.

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013

shitty freeloader friend


I don't know how I feel about removing XP entirely, I'm curious to see how it plays out but I'm slightly concerned about it.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend



Curious about the elemental boss fights that GX mention. They said it took them over a hour to beat some of them and they got super pissed during it but literally every other review never really mentioned them or said the difficulty was fine

Wonder if it's just a bit of not getting it or just something that got glossed over by others.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Curious about the elemental boss fights that GX mention. They said it took them over a hour to beat some of them and they got super pissed during it but literally every other review never really mentioned them or said the difficulty was fine

Wonder if it's just a bit of not getting it or just something that got glossed over by others.

Thereís a weird spectrum of reviewers who have very different views on how hard the battles are, some thing itís easy, others think theyíre hard, some think itís annoying and some thing itís fine so I think it depends on who you talk to.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




remember that game reviewer that took ten minutes to get out of the ten second-long Cuphead tutorial

PsychoInternetHawk
Apr 4, 2011

Perhaps, if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque.

Grimey Drawer

This is your reminder that numerous reviewers did not realize the vault chapter of Super Paper Mario was a puzzle despite the game screaming hints at the player and actually spent five hours or whatever running on a treadmill

PsychoInternetHawk
Apr 4, 2011

Perhaps, if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque.

Grimey Drawer

Anyway I'm getting the sense from reviews that the whole ring puzzle mechanic is just incredibly difficult for some people to wrap their heads around, I've seen a couple reviews that amount to "this is insanely hard and I can't believe Nintendo would make a Paper Mario game this challenging" while the rest seem to feel that it's pretty easy overall

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS



PsychoInternetHawk posted:

This is your reminder that numerous reviewers did not realize the vault chapter of Super Paper Mario was a puzzle despite the game screaming hints at the player and actually spent five hours or whatever running on a treadmill

To be fair it's not like anything was stopping you from spending 5 hours on a treadmill, especially when "tape down a button and leave the console on overnight" has proven itself to be a viable method outside of Super Paper Mario.

AlphaKeny1
Feb 17, 2006



PsychoInternetHawk posted:

Anyway I'm getting the sense from reviews that the whole ring puzzle mechanic is just incredibly difficult for some people to wrap their heads around, I've seen a couple reviews that amount to "this is insanely hard and I can't believe Nintendo would make a Paper Mario game this challenging" while the rest seem to feel that it's pretty easy overall

Agreed. Some people just have pretty bad spatial intelligence. That doesn't make them stupid or bad. Just that the rubik's cube inspiration for battles would be pretty hard to balance.At least thats how I see it without playing. There's no exp to grind your way past difficult bosses, you just either have a knack for rubik's cubes or you don't. Seems like poor design if you develop your game around these intrusive puzzles that provide no consistent incentive to solve.

edit: I also remember a GX person saying if you screw up the ring phase even in regular mobs the battle will take long and is a huge hassle to clean up. Like, the idea that battles are a literal puzzle is cool but maybe don't punish the player with super tedious battles for sucking at it and not providing much incentive. Just go the SMT route and give me a full party wipe for messing up my press turns.

AlphaKeny1 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 15, 2020

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

The major bosses are also fought differently from regular enemies too. I could see that causing a feedback loop where you stop fighting mobs if they don't train you for bosses, and gain less experience actually fighting mobs as a result to the point they become more difficult than they'd be ordinarily.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




I want a fun and engaging system but also I don't want it to engage me at all

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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

HONKING IS VIOLENCE


Harrow posted:

This game seems extremely charming and funny but I can't help but think that the battles are going to get really tedious after a while. The ring-based system seems clever but I feel like I'm just going to get tired of it a lot faster than I'd get tired of a more straightforward turn-based combat system.

If each new fight is essentially a new puzzle, I'm totally down. Menu based combat RPGs get boring during the first battle. I'm not horny for XP, I think generally it's a bad system for exactly the same reasons some people love it, being able to be under or overpowered via XP is a turnoff. Every battle should have a point, or it's a poo poo encounter we should skip. Intentionally fighting random trivial battles for XP is mechanic and system I won't allow in my household.

This is a buy. Question is, do I buy this or Death Stranding? I'll only have time for some of either this month and next.

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