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While I don’t have any specific links to videos, research the power, draw, pry, and jstrokes. Canoeing is such an ancient thing that there are a ton of good resources out there and you won’t likely get fooled by bad information if you just watch some of the top results on youtube. I bet the American Canoe Association has a decent series.
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Jun 5, 2021 05:46
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The important thing to know is that you are each introducing opposing, but not equal forces. Most people assume you are each paddling on opposite sides so you should mostly go straight. However, you have a lot more leverage in the back and that will cause the canoe to turn away from the side you are paddling on. For example, if you are paddling on the right side, the canoe will start going left. This goes for front and rear which is why it's important that you paddle on opposite sides to balance those forces out a bit (both paddling on the right will push you pretty hard to the left). Maintaining a nice vertical stroke, keeping the blade of your paddle close to the canoe will reduce this drift. Lots of beginners hold the paddle on an angle causing the blade to enter the water further from the canoe which is going to push you further off course (not sure if this is common language but we have always called it "sweeping" your stroke). So, assuming you're now both paddling at a nice evenly matched pace with decent technique, your boat will slowly drift opposite your stern paddler. How do you fix that without switching sides? The J Stroke, the pry or simply ruddering a bit at the end of your stroke. J Stroke would be most proper for just keeping it straight as a pry is more of a turning tool and will slow you down quite a bit, and ruddering will reduce your cadence. The J Stroke and pry are both included in the following video as well as the draw stroke which is another good one. https://youtu.be/dVUNzKkBE5o Mini-FAQ: 1. "I'm having to J Stroke a lot. Too much." -slow down! You're overpowering your partner. You will go faster and expend less energy if you aren't constantly performing corrective strokes. 2. "You lied. The canoe turns opposite my bow paddler!" - Check your partner's form and make sure they aren't sweeping the water at a distance from the boat. If they are stronger or have a bigger paddle, get them to cool off! 3. "Okay we can sort of go straight. What next?" - Practice and teach your partner the draw stroke. It's useful at both ends of the boat. Play some with your strokes to get a feel for the how they impact the boat. For example: you might want to sweep your strokes a bit, or even both paddle on the same side to overcome a wind or to initiate a bit of a turn without drawing or prying (which slow you down). Get comfortable with paddling backwards to stop, dock your canoe and manoeuvre in tight areas. Back paddling introduces opposite forces to going forwards so it's good to practice so that you can predict how your course will change when you do it.
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Jun 5, 2021 06:33
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Arkhamina posted:Rented a canoe at an outfitters on the Kickapoo River today. Heavy freaking tank of a plastic body, two beat to poo poo oars, $40. Realize now why - the water is so low, grinding against gravel was pretty regular. Had a good time and went about 8 miles, in 90F (31C) heat. You need to know how to do a J-Stroke so you can paddle straight without having to switch sides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrh4bC2_Wc Note, I tend to do a 'push' when I turn the paddle. My wife wasn't much help when I went canoeing with her in Oregon a few years ago, but 7 years of summer camp and paddling Grumman canoe beasts was good training for me. 
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Jun 6, 2021 05:26
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Arkhamina posted:Rented a canoe at an outfitters on the Kickapoo River today. Heavy freaking tank of a plastic body, two beat to poo poo oars, $40. Realize now why - the water is so low, grinding against gravel was pretty regular. Had a good time and went about 8 miles, in 90F (31C) heat. Check out videos from Bill Mason. YouTube has some, but the quality ones are at the NFB website. https://www.nfb.ca/film/path_of_the_paddle_solo_basic/ He's like the Canadian Bob Ross of Canoeing. Kerchief not optional.
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Jun 6, 2021 12:30
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I almost capsized yesterday. I was on the middle of a bigass lake, my kayak was loaded with gear (everything for camping 3 days + rock climbing equipment, ropes and all) so I was pretty low, and there was heavy wind and waves. I took a quick break to stretch and lost my balance for a second, the side of the boat went under the water and a whole bunch of water rushed in. Thankfully I was able to right myself relatively quickly and made it to an island to pump the water out. Closest call I've had so far. It would've been pretty bad with all the gear. Always be on your guard, wear your pfd and practice emergency measures.
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Jun 7, 2021 18:13
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Thanks for the links, I will check them out. The J-stroke I know, but well I am not quite sure what he was doing in back.... We were zooming all over. I think I will stick him in front next time. There is a lake rental place near us, and some remedial canoe time is going to happen before Boundary Waters in September.
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Jun 7, 2021 18:31
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Arkhamina posted:Thanks for the links, I will check them out. The J-stroke I know, but well I am not quite sure what he was doing in back.... We were zooming all over. I think I will stick him in front next time. Yeah, the experienced paddler in the back works best. (Darn, I need to find a good deal on a canoe)
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Jun 8, 2021 17:51
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Survived my intro to river kayaking course. Its interesting just hanging out upside down underwater just waiting for a t rescue. My next question is about roof racks. I have a leased mazda 3, so I don't want to spend a ton of cash on a roof rack that I will just have to sell when my lease is up. Is something like https://www.amazon.ca/Rightline-Gear-100K10-Block-Carrier/dp/B07YN33SX7 decent, or just a recipe for disaster?
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Jun 9, 2021 17:53
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I would be concerned about paint damage on a lease, maybe look into fb groups (especially local whitewater ones) and see if anyone is selling used racks? They pop up regularly out here. Alternatively buy new racks and sell when the car is gone. Double alternative is that the towers are often replaceable for less than the whole setup and new towers might be all you need to get old bars onto new car.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:04
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Demon_Corsair posted:Survived my intro to river kayaking course. Its interesting just hanging out upside down underwater just waiting for a t rescue. There is a massive roof rack shortage. I've been waiting on a few different Yakima racks to come in stock for months now and no luck. I have a J rack that I don't like using since it's hard for me to get the kayak onto it. I really want a flat one with cradles and I have a discount code for Yakima so I'm trying to hold out for them and not spend $300 (more than what my kayak is worth) for a rack. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 18:54
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Pennywise the Frown posted:There is a massive roof rack shortage. I've been waiting on a few different Yakima racks to come in stock for months now and no luck. I’ve been wanting to replace my 40$ no name amazon roof rack with a proper Yakima or Thule cross bar on my Jeep Patriot, but kept putting it off and now can’t get anything. I’m a bit paranoid now, because I’ve got a six hour freeway trip coming up to pick up a new kayak down in Tennessee. I’ve got ratcheting bow and stern tie downs and ratcheting NRS straps, and the plan was to put a pool noodle over the bars and ratchet down on those in the front and back. Is there anything extra I should be doing? A few years ago the bars held two kayaks on J hooks for a two hour trip, but I’m worried UV exposure may have degraded the plastic clamps and it might fail and just want to do whatever I can to make sure that doesn’t happen.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:53
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Classic kayak tiedown (whitewater anyways) is boats on the bars (upside down to protect hull from dents) with cam straps up and over and through a tiedown point or similar. Long drives it's not a bad idea (and legally required sometimes) to do bow and Stern tethers to something on the frame of the car, which certainly adds peace of mind if you don't trust your rack. Careful with ratchet straps, they can get tight enough to damage boats, usually a cam strap is all you need.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:38
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I have a rack with Subaru "Aero Bars" going across my roof horizontally so if I really wanted I could just throw it up on there upside down and ratchet the hell out of it and it probably wouldn't go anywhere. However, I appear to be a moron because I tried two different ratchets just now (I'm going kayaking for the first time this year today  ) and can't get them to work. They both can't ratchet down to far. I have like 10 feet of cord left before the roll is filled up too far and it just clogs/stops.Luckily I have the tie downs both of my racks came with. The Subaru ones failed on me on a SUPER windy day and my kayak almost flew off but I was able to pull off the road. However I also have the Yakima ones which are the same style. So I used both of them, 4 tie downs. 
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Jun 9, 2021 20:40
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I have a rack with Subaru "Aero Bars" going across my roof horizontally so if I really wanted I could just throw it up on there upside down and ratchet the hell out of it and it probably wouldn't go anywhere. However, I appear to be a moron because I tried two different ratchets just now (I'm going kayaking for the first time this year today With a ratchet strap, start with the ratchet mechanism as loose as possible. Then pull the loose end of the strap through the ratchet mechanism. You should get the strap kinda tightish before you start ratcheting. The ratchet mechanism is just to take up the last few inches of material.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:43
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I'm here to preach the gospel of cam straps and roller cams in particular
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Jun 9, 2021 21:02
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You absolutely can securely mount a kayak or canoe using just the foamies on the roof of your car. I did it for years and if you're doing it properly, it will not go anywhere. I would just get proper blocks designed for the application and not use pool noodles or whatever. Get two 12-14ft straps and loop them through your door frames. Bing Bang boom That said, a rack is way way better to deal with. The nature of the blocks and the way you need to compress them to get appropriate tension means you will occasionally need to pull over and re-tension everything... Especially if it's wet out. I recommend bow and stern tie downs, especially on the front of the car. Don't buy straps for these. Just get some 550 paracord and Google how to tie a Trucker's hitch. They sell tie down loops that you screw down onto engine mounts and stick up under your hood, but again you can use some paracord to achieve the same results. Both will save your hood and grille from abrasion. You need 2 tie downs one on each corner of your hood, and 2 cords to properly secure it. V straps aren't really optimal (and are expensive). I'm speaking from the experience of securing 16-18ft craft where there's a lot of nose and tail sticking out beyond my straps. Someone with a 10ft recreational kayak might be able to get away without them. Lastly, ratchet straps work fine. You just have to be extremely aware of the leverage you have using them, and how easy it is to crumple your hull. The tension on the strap is the only measure you should use to determine tightness, and not try to get the ratcheting "hand tight". I personally prefer them because cam straps tend to wear out when they tightened down to the same spot over and over and I don't have to reef on anything.
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Jun 9, 2021 23:05
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Safety Dance posted:With a ratchet strap, start with the ratchet mechanism as loose as possible. Then pull the loose end of the strap through the ratchet mechanism. You should get the strap kinda tightish before you start ratcheting. The ratchet mechanism is just to take up the last few inches of material. I see. I was putting the very end of the strap in there and ratcheting it all the way. I'll try that next time! I went kayaking with a Meetup.com group and it was nice. Just on a calm lake for about 1.5 hours. The youngest one was a pediatrician about 5+ years older than me and the rest were 20+. It was still fun. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jun 10, 2021 |
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Jun 10, 2021 02:39
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:I'm here to preach the gospel of cam straps and roller cams in particular Oh yeah, I probably should clarify, that’s exactly what I bought. These NRS cam straps with the cushioning around the buckle. Math You posted:You absolutely can securely mount a kayak or canoe using just the foamies on the roof of your car. I did it for years and if you're doing it properly, it will not go anywhere. I would just get proper blocks designed for the application and not use pool noodles or whatever. Get two 12-14ft straps and loop them through your door frames. Bing Bang boom Just to clarify, my thought was to use pool noodles cut and slipped over the rails, so there’s foam to prevent denting and scratching from the aluminum cross bar when I heave the kayak up top and strap it down. But it actually looks like Cargoloc makes velcro and uv resistant foam crossbar pads for 15$, so l’ll just buy those instead. I also have ratcheting bow and stern tie downs, which I have used with borrowed J hooks before. I’m just worried about the rack itself failing on the freeway since it’s a 40$ amazon cargolock thing and not a proper thule or yakima rack. But those are impossible to find right now, so here’s hoping what I have is good enough! It’s just new boat and long trip anxiety…. My nightmare scenario is one of the clamps failing and a brand new thousand dollar kayak I had to drive three states over to buy flying off into the freeway. Knowing the bow and stern tie downs are a good backup solution that’ll let me know if something is wrong and give me a minute to pull off the road is all I wanted to know!
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Jun 10, 2021 11:15
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I use these  in my hood and trunk to create anchor points and these ratchet ropes  to tie down the bow and the stern. Along with cam straps and J-bars on my rack, I never feel like my kayak can move at all.
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Jun 10, 2021 14:09
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OSU_Matthew posted:Oh yeah, I probably should clarify, that’s exactly what I bought. These NRS cam straps with the cushioning around the buckle. I would honestly prefer to get kayak specific foamies or something than to use cheap crossbars. Will there be more play? Yeah. But I know that the attachment points are not going to fail. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/customer-reviews/R164T1INR2QAU3/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00GA2HKAU Seems unlikely to happen (most reviews are positive or mixed relating to long term durability), but I wouldn't want to risk it..
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Jun 10, 2021 15:24
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Colonel J posted:I use these For the ratchet ropes, do you use two or four?
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Jun 10, 2021 15:37
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theflyingexecutive posted:For the ratchet ropes, do you use two or four? One in the front, one in the back, so 2. OSU_Matthew posted:It’s just new boat and long trip anxiety…. My nightmare scenario is one of the clamps failing and a brand new thousand dollar kayak I had to drive three states over to buy flying off into the freeway. If you're REALLY paranoid you can run a strap around the boat and into your car, you'll get redundancy in case the rack fails. Hope your car stereo is loud though. Colonel J fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 10, 2021 |
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Jun 10, 2021 16:00
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A half or full twist in the straps where they are bridging between boat and rack will usually cut vibrations and wind noise massively, if they run flat they'll vibrate and make noise.
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Jun 10, 2021 16:51
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Colonel J posted:One in the front, one in the back, so 2. Twist the strap to stop the flap! Put two twists in the strap below the hull and above the door frame before tightening down and it will stop the dreaded hum. Again, ideally you want two straps in the front, as they are meant to prevent the nose from being lifted as well as lateral movement. It's probably only really necessary for longer boats, but it's technically best practice. I cannot recommend enough that people learn how to tie the truckers' hitch. With a couple bucks worth of cord, you can create perfect length lines for the front and back dependant on the location of your tie down points. It's super flexible and you'll find a million ways to use it when camping if you do that. Best of all, it's dead simple to learn. If you can tie your shoes you can do a truckers' hitch. https://youtu.be/W86XNUmElP4
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Jun 10, 2021 16:51
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Math You posted:Twist the strap to stop the flap! Put two twists in the strap below the hull and above the door frame before tightening down and it will stop the dreaded hum. Trucker's hitch is also very necessary for tying up heavier boats by the painter line. My coworkers get sick of me coming behind them and untying their stupid slipknots and poo poo that tighten to the point that they can't be untied and the line is weakened and a hazard. Don't ever use knots in your boat lines, hitches only. Or knots that are easily untied, like a bowline or something on a bight.
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Jun 10, 2021 17:01
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OSU_Matthew posted:Oh yeah, I probably should clarify, that’s exactly what I bought. These NRS cam straps with the cushioning around the buckle. I've been doing the pool noodle thing with my Trailblazer and it's worked with both my plastic kayak and wood pirogue just fine.
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Jun 11, 2021 01:45
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Math You posted:Twist the strap to stop the flap! Put two twists in the strap below the hull and above the door frame before tightening down and it will stop the dreaded hum. Wait, the straps are the things causing the eerie, ghostly whistle/hum? This whole time I was thinking it was the open cargo hatch on the kayak doing that. 
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Jun 11, 2021 02:03
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pseudorandom posted:Wait, the straps are the things causing the eerie, ghostly whistle/hum? This whole time I was thinking it was the open cargo hatch on the kayak doing that. Strap flap is a very distinctive (violent) noise and I find is most prone to happen when you go through the car. If the strap is nice and flush to your boat and bars it's less likely to happen. Your description sounds different. Watch this and you'll be able to tell in about 5 seconds if that's what you are experiencing. https://youtu.be/eIFi_jTvo68 That's a pretty good demonstration of how it sounds and how much a simple twist corrects it.
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Jun 11, 2021 03:48
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My strap flap sounded like a buzzing noise. I only ever encountered it on my old Mazda, where I put the middle strap inside the front doors, around the B pillar and outside the back doors. I usually remedied it by wrapping a bit of electrical tape between the strap runs on the passenger side. Never had it happen on my Corolla. I'd strap it the same way but around the roof rack bars rather than the B pillars.
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Jun 11, 2021 13:24
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n0tqu1tesane posted:I've been doing the pool noodle thing with my Trailblazer and it's worked with both my plastic kayak and wood pirogue just fine. 
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Jun 11, 2021 14:36
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Math You posted:Strap flap is a very distinctive (violent) noise and I find is most prone to happen when you go through the car. If the strap is nice and flush to your boat and bars it's less likely to happen. Hmmm, its similar, but not as deep. It might be because the straps are shorter, only the width of the kayak; or, it might still be the open hole in the kayak itself. Mine sounds a bit more like the sound you make if you blow over the top of a soda bottle, which I guess might suggest it's the latter case.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:56
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is this a good kayak? https://www.frugalhotspot.com/2021/03/costco-pelican-mission-100-kayak/ I might go buy a kayak tomorrow but I dont want to buy it if it is a bad one.
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Jun 12, 2021 01:10
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Nooner posted:is this a good kayak? Pelican is not known for great boats, but they’ll do.
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Jun 12, 2021 03:24
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Nooner posted:is this a good kayak? $299 is a hella deal.
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Jun 12, 2021 06:44
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Nooner posted:is this a good kayak? What's makes a "good" kayak has a lot to do with what you intend to do with it. Fishing, crossing big lakes or hitting the ocean, going down rivers.. You're going to have multiple hull shapes, lengths and materials that are specialized for those purposes. Inside of those you are going to have more variety with models favouring speed, weight, capacity, stability, durability, attachment points for accessories, etc. This is a 10 foot recreational kayak. A cottage cruiser. It's not really specialized to do anything but be cheap. But guess what? You can fish in it. You can cross lakes on it, you can take it down river. Maybe don't hit rapids or take it on the ocean, but you can still do a lot of things with it even if it's not ideal. To me, it seems like a good start, and it might even fulfill your needs long term depending what you're gonna do with it. Bonus is it appears to be 40lbs so it'll be nice and easy to get up on your roof. Some of the cheaper ones I've seen have been total pigs. When I worked retail around 10 years ago we had these orange sit on tops I'd give myself a goddamn hernia moving.
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Jun 12, 2021 11:36
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Math You posted:I would honestly prefer to get kayak specific foamies or something than to use cheap crossbars. Will there be more play? Yeah. But I know that the attachment points are not going to fail. Oh hey, whatchu know, my very specific nightmare! Good to know I’m not imagining things lol Colonel J posted:I use these I think this is literally the exact same kit I got lol. Last time I used ratcheting straps on the trailer hitch and found an anchor point to the frame in the front. For whatever stupid reason the front towing hooks on the jeep patriot are super specialized and expensive, and you have to dremel out some of the bumper (same as installing the trailer hitch). I am curious to try the hood anchor strap and see how the works though! The rack did hold two kayaks on j hooks before, so hopefully I should be fine. I’ll just run an extra strap or two around the top rails and hang some lucky fuzzy dice from the mirror
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Jun 12, 2021 13:32
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Math You posted:What's makes a "good" kayak has a lot to do with what you intend to do with it. Fishing, crossing big lakes or hitting the ocean, going down rivers.. You're going to have multiple hull shapes, lengths and materials that are specialized for those purposes. Inside of those you are going to have more variety with models favouring speed, weight, capacity, stability, durability, attachment points for accessories, etc. Good info, thank you! Just intending to fucks around on lakes at this point, wife and I have only gone once before when we borrowed some, but we moved up to an area where lakes are a lot more accessible so looking to kinda get into it more so "not really specialized to do anything but be cheap" sounds perfect, haha
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Jun 12, 2021 18:33
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 kayaks are fun
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Jun 15, 2021 06:29
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:
What class? It looks really hardcore from the perspective of the photographer! Even a couple sweepers to watch out for there.. Guy upthread, don't do this with your pelican kayak
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Jun 17, 2021 15:51
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4ish, Cooper river in Washington state. None of the rapids are that hard but they're all stacked up in a pretty committed canyon so it feels a little more intense.
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Jun 17, 2021 16:34
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