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ur in my world now
Jun 5, 2006

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was




Smellrose

a cooler full of beer and a camelbak for water

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Luvcow
Jul 1, 2007




really hot days i'll bring a frozen 2 liter bottle of water and as the day goes on it melts into ice water. most days i bring a little cooler, some water, some kind of sugar drink, and in my small dry bag a couple bags of honey roasted cashews. nice long days i'll bring a sandwich and some beers too.

Syano
Jul 13, 2005


Welp... flipped the yak for the first time tonight. Ive been practicing for a bit now keeping my keys/wallet/phone back in the truck so that wasnt an issue. Had my tackle lashed good and the depth was only about 5 feet so my rods stayed in their holders and I guess the tips just flexed and didnt break. It was just dogone cold. Youd think it would be hard to flip a 36 inch wide 14 foot boat but youd be wrong.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

That was fast, how'd you flip it?

Syano
Jul 13, 2005


Im guessing its just physics/bad luck. I weigh about 275 and I had the fishing seat clicked up to full height, which on the feelfree lure is like 10 inches off the deck. I suppose that just having that much weight up off the center of gravity of the boat makes it easier to flip. I mean, the boat has always rocked a bit but I watched tons of videos before I bought it of guys doing crazy stuff and not being able to flip these things. I am going to have to ride with the seat lower I think

EDIT: or maybe I should get some outriggers

Syano fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Oct 27, 2020

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



I think it's just a rite of passage, especially with a newer boat. A couple years ago, my wife (who has plenty of kayak experience, mostly in sea kayaks) got into my rec boat and promptly just went right over. I definitely flipped my rec boat a few times throughout the time I had it, and also my whitewater boat. Once you get tipped past that point of primary stability, things happen really fast.
Glad you didn't lose/break anything. That's good thinking to have your stuff all lashed down even in shallow/calm water.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

I have yet to flip my boat. I only weigh 140 though and I only paddle in calm water. Some outriggers wouldn't be a bad idea if you're able to flip your boat just from sitting and leaning. The times when I've come closest to flipping are either when I'm fishing standing up (which my kayak kinda sucks for) or if I'm snagged bad on a windy day.

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.

Fallen Rib

I went camping 2 weeks ago. It was 40F in the morning, colder overnight. As I was loading up to leave, I saw a couple putting up kayaks. I asked him if it wasn't kind of cold to river kayak - his answer: the trick is not to flip! Braver than I...

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



All this talk of capsizing is a good time to remind everyone to wear a good pfd. It doesnít matter how well you can swim, having one on makes getting your poo poo together in the water while youíre swimming soooo much easier. Especially if the water is cold. A good pfd turns a boat flip from something dangerous into a pain in the rear end, which is way better. Without one, about all you can do is get yourself to the shore/shallow water. With one, you stand a good chance of recovering your boat and gear.

Plus, pfds are a fun piece of gear to nerd out over. The difference between a decent paddling vest and a lovely old horsecollar, fishing pfd, or waterskiing vest is huge.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Don't forget cold water gear. The number I heard was if the air temp and water temp don't add up to over 120f you need cold water gear. If you flip into 40 degree water on a 40 degree day shock isn't is going to set in real fast.

For me if the air temp and water temp don't add up to 120 I'm probably indoors

prom candy fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 29, 2020

Syano
Jul 13, 2005


Well heres a good question then. What do I need for cold water gear?

meowmeowmeowmeow
Jan 4, 2017


Medium cold water a farmer john wetsuit and splash/dry top will keep you pretty good if it's splashing or spray and a small chance of a flip and immersion. Dry pants and top or drysuit are gold standard for expected immersion in cold weather, with the drysuit being way safer than a combo but more expensive.

Drywear is more comfortable and will restrict motion way less, paddling in a full wetsuit sucks. Drysuits are slightly more fragile and way more expensive, but a good suit will last 5 years of heavy use of it's cared for well. Buy Immersion Research or Kokatat if you can afford it, NRS gear doesn't last.

Add in pogies (paddling gloves basically) and a neoprene skull cap and cold weather/water paddling is very comfortable if you can afford the gear.


It's something like below 120 combined temp wetsuit, and like sub 100 or sub 90 drysuit is recommended. I go straight from shorts and drytop to drysuit personally based on how water and air temps work here and skip wet suits entirely.


This day was combined temps of maaaybe 65 and was pretty comfy in a drysuit and good layers underneath.

meowmeowmeowmeow fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Oct 29, 2020

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

meowmeowmeowmeow posted:

This day was combined temps of maaaybe 65 and was pretty comfy in a drysuit and good layers underneath.


you could not get my rear end in a kayak on a day like that

Syano
Jul 13, 2005


Im not sure I even know what snow is. I literally just got my boat a few weeks ago so I plan on using it all winter but the lowest the air temp gets here in the south where I am at is mid 30s on average.

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



Syano posted:

Im not sure I even know what snow is. I literally just got my boat a few weeks ago so I plan on using it all winter but the lowest the air temp gets here in the south where I am at is mid 30s on average.

If youíre not doing whitewater or offshore paddling, really technical dry- and wetsuits are overkill and youíll hate them and never wear them. Dry suits are for when you know youíre going to get wet in cold weather, or thereís a really good chance of it and your life depends on staying dry if you end up swimming. A good one costs more than your boat.

For winter flatwater paddling in the south, youíre fine with just good synthetic base layers (UnderArmor type stuff, the low $ C9 stuff from Target is all Iíve ever worn and itís great), quick dry hiking pants, and a splash layer. I paddled all seasons in Arkansas for years, and that was great for me. Rain pants and jacket from Cabelas, fleece top, synthetic base layer, and usually chacos. Stuff that dries reasonably quick while you get back to the car. I got pretty soaked a few times and it wasnít fun but wasnít dangerous either. A paddling splash top is nice, too, because they have some gasketing in the wrists and neck and a waist cinch. Wrist gaskets is key so water doesnít run all the way down to your armpit. Again, this is all assuming you're not intending to get wet or there's otherwise a low chance of it happening.

Thatís still what I wear a lot of the time in Colorado now. When it really gets cold, Iíve got a 2.0 mil farmer john wetsuit that has been great. I did some summer sea kayaking in Alaska with it and it handled those temps well too. I don't really whitewater kayak any more though, if I did I'd have a drysuit setup like meow^5 described. I wore one for a swiftwater rescue course in the Colorado River in April and a wetsuit absolutely wouldn't have cut it.


To be clear, though, 30-degree ambient temps are cold enough that even a dunk in 60-degree water would suuuuuuck. If you've ever experienced the mammalian diving response in cold water, you will take great precautions to avoid it forever after, or at least learn how to deal with it safely. Hence a good pfd being one of the most important things you can wear, especially in cold weather. A hypothermic person who can float with their head above water will probably get out of the water and live. A hypothermic person who is swimming frantically without the aid of a pfd is probably already dead and hasn't figured it out yet.

HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Oct 30, 2020

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


HenryJLittlefinger posted:

If youíre not doing whitewater or offshore paddling, really technical dry- and wetsuits are overkill and youíll hate them and never wear them. Dry suits are for when you know youíre going to get wet in cold weather, or thereís a really good chance of it and your life depends on staying dry if you end up swimming. A good one costs more than your boat.

I really want to start doing some cold-water diving, but holy poo poo good dry suits are expensive. Worth every penny, but not cheap.

meowmeowmeowmeow
Jan 4, 2017


Listen to the guy up there, sounds like he has a better idea of your use case and weather.

Imo it's all about balancing likelyhood of immersion/getting really wet vs the temps vs how close you are to your car or other warmth after you get wet.


And yeah the number 1 piece of cold weather gear is you off, which is also your number 1 piece of warm weather gear.

Tall neoprene socks make a huge difference if you have to get in the water to launch your boat as well.

ur in my world now
Jun 5, 2006

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was




Smellrose

i have a 5 mm wetsuit that I use when I want to paddle board in january. it works pretty good in combination with some neoprene gloves and boots. that and my wake vest keeps me toasty even in a lovely missouri winter. not bad for using the sit on top kayak in the middle of winter either. it kind of owns to listlessly float around the river in the snow and drink beer.

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



meowmeowmeowmeow posted:

Tall neoprene socks make a huge difference if you have to get in the water to launch your boat as well.

Iíve never used these but was going to shill my neoprene booties as well. How are the socks? I think about getting a pair every now and then. I usually wear chacos up to the point that itís just too cold for bare feet and switch to the booties. I picked up a pair of Astral water shoes recently though and was thinking neoprene socks might be good to pair with them.

meowmeowmeowmeow
Jan 4, 2017


yeah neoprene socks, like the 0.5mm ones are what I wear if its a little too cold for wool socks and astrals but im not quite ready for the drysuit.

Syano
Jul 13, 2005


I took the.boat on the big lake for the first time yesterday. Never brought the seat more than a out 4 inches off the deck and there was never really any danger of flipping. Funny how physics works. Problem now is I have no clue where the friggin fish are on the big lake

Elmnt80
Dec 30, 2012

OH NOOOO!





https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3933162&pagenumber=17&perpage=40

There's a thread for that too!

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.

Fallen Rib

The season has passed for me (as a dunk in Wisconsin water this time of year sounds like what I want to avoid). I am wondering on how many used once/never kayaks and canoes may be on the market next year... Then again, next year will likely be the same situation as vaccine distribution could be slow...

Hoping the production catches up with demand, too!

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Arkhamina posted:

The season has passed for me (as a dunk in Wisconsin water this time of year sounds like what I want to avoid). I am wondering on how many used once/never kayaks and canoes may be on the market next year... Then again, next year will likely be the same situation as vaccine distribution could be slow...

Hoping the production catches up with demand, too!

Used market always seemed weird to me. I've sold a handful of kayaks (not 2020 market) and gotten close to what I paid. But the market has been growing in my area for the last 10 years. That said I know people who have kayaks and canoes that get used, at best, once a year, and sit in the rafters the rest of the time. They aren't interested in selling, so they turn into holiday boats.

I'll be selling my canoe as my wife doesn't feel comfortable in it (Interested? You'd get a sweet deal...). I'd like another canoe, but need to get something I can use solo.

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.

Fallen Rib

I am still waffling on what I want. On one hand, I enjoy canoes, and have more experience with them. On the other hand, my goal is water-craft travel based camping. My other half is ok with going camping, canoeing - he seems to enjoy it, he just never initiates it, and I am fairly sure my desire to sleep under a bug net and eat ashy food, sneak up on turtles on logs is much higher.

So do I get a solo craft, and one for him, or a two person I only can use if I drag him along? One would be more economical, space in garage is pretty tight too. I could be wrong, but I think there are canoes that can do solo or 2 people?

Also I am working on it, but the last couple times I went canoeing, I could easily go for hours, but I can't lift a 2 person canoe over my head. (Am a 43 year old lady goon). So to roof rack something heavy is tough. (I do have a rack, hood loops though!). Kayaks seem to be easier to throw around. But canoes hold more stuff...

(Long post, here is a picture of a turtle I snuck up on this summer)

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Arkhamina posted:

I am still waffling on what I want. On one hand, I enjoy canoes, and have more experience with them. On the other hand, my goal is water-craft travel based camping. My other half is ok with going camping, canoeing - he seems to enjoy it, he just never initiates it, and I am fairly sure my desire to sleep under a bug net and eat ashy food, sneak up on turtles on logs is much higher.

So do I get a solo craft, and one for him, or a two person I only can use if I drag him along? One would be more economical, space in garage is pretty tight too. I could be wrong, but I think there are canoes that can do solo or 2 people?

Also I am working on it, but the last couple times I went canoeing, I could easily go for hours, but I can't lift a 2 person canoe over my head. (Am a 43 year old lady goon). So to roof rack something heavy is tough. (I do have a rack, hood loops though!). Kayaks seem to be easier to throw around. But canoes hold more stuff...

(Long post, here is a picture of a turtle I snuck up on this summer)


You can absolutely get a two person canoe that is still acceptable for one person. My canoe is not that canoe (17'). I got it to use with my wife and son. It was a great deal, but since she isn't into it it's too big. In hindsight I wish I'd have gotten a 14 or 15 that was kevlar. Now you've got a 35 lb boat instead of a 60 lb boat.

As far as the weight capacity, how often are you hauling hundreds of pounds of gear? A Nova Craft 15 has an 850 lb capacity and weighs 52 lbs. Subtract your weight, his weight, and you've got a ton of capacity. A Tsunami 140 (plastic boat, not composite) weighs 52 lbs with a capacity of 325 lbs. The issue I had camping with the Tsunami was actually fitting it all inside.

If I get another canoe it'll be a 14 or 15', kevlar or carbon, and something I can use solo with a kayak paddle. Then I can throw the dog into it.

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



Arkhamina posted:

I am still waffling on what I want. On one hand, I enjoy canoes, and have more experience with them. On the other hand, my goal is water-craft travel based camping. My other half is ok with going camping, canoeing - he seems to enjoy it, he just never initiates it, and I am fairly sure my desire to sleep under a bug net and eat ashy food, sneak up on turtles on logs is much higher.

So do I get a solo craft, and one for him, or a two person I only can use if I drag him along? One would be more economical, space in garage is pretty tight too. I could be wrong, but I think there are canoes that can do solo or 2 people?

Also I am working on it, but the last couple times I went canoeing, I could easily go for hours, but I can't lift a 2 person canoe over my head. (Am a 43 year old lady goon). So to roof rack something heavy is tough. (I do have a rack, hood loops though!). Kayaks seem to be easier to throw around. But canoes hold more stuff...

(Long post, here is a picture of a turtle I snuck up on this summer)


Get a kayak for yourself. You might have to learn how to pack lighter and get some backpacking camping gear, or you might be able to do it with what you have. Drink wine instead of beer, get a backpacking tent, try a hammock, or sleep out, downsize your sleeping bag and pad, dehydrate your food and get a little MSR stove, etc.

I love canoes and will always stan for them but I also love kayaks and have done multi days out of them easily. The bottom line here is you need to be able to easily get out by yourself. As much as I like canoes I will always have some kind of solo boat. For years it was an Old Town Voyager, lately itís my wifeís paddle board that she lets me use. For that matter, consider a canoe and an inflatable sup board. Itís a different kind of paddling (slower, wetter), but easier to do on your own, and easier to store than a kayak.

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.

Fallen Rib

My dogs in a canoe.. that would be so much comedy, for about 5 minutes. My lab mix hates/is afraid of water, and the Rottie mix is a fireplug with about the flexibility of an english bulldog. She would have to be lifted in and out.

Yeah, I really should just aim for what I can use. In the Before Times, the other half would play hockey 3x a week, we very much have our own hobbies.

So a 14' canoe or a touring yak is what I am getting as recommendations? I am pretty sure I could lift up to about 75Lbs up. Not sure how big the rental we had for boundary waters, that held 2 adults, a kid, and 5 days of gear just fine. Absolutely could not get it up and over (although I had just paddled for 3 hours in wind so I was a bit beat too).

meowmeowmeowmeow
Jan 4, 2017


Not sure if you've seen them but you can get roof rack rollers that make it easier to get a heavy canoe or kayak on the roof. My 65 yo mom uses them and can get her wood kayak on the roof by herself by getting one end onto the rollers and then sliding it into place.

E: based on what you've written I think you might like a canoe more, kayaks are a little faster and easier to paddle but I'd usually take a canoe for a quiet day on flat water or a camping trip where the point isn't all distance or something. A medium sized canoe is something you could do solo and would fit your partner as well, a duo kayak is a pain solo and solo kayaks don't really do two people well at all.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Arkhamina posted:

My dogs in a canoe.. that would be so much comedy, for about 5 minutes. My lab mix hates/is afraid of water, and the Rottie mix is a fireplug with about the flexibility of an english bulldog. She would have to be lifted in and out.

Yeah, I really should just aim for what I can use. In the Before Times, the other half would play hockey 3x a week, we very much have our own hobbies.

So a 14' canoe or a touring yak is what I am getting as recommendations? I am pretty sure I could lift up to about 75Lbs up. Not sure how big the rental we had for boundary waters, that held 2 adults, a kid, and 5 days of gear just fine. Absolutely could not get it up and over (although I had just paddled for 3 hours in wind so I was a bit beat too).

Those boundary water canoes are built like tanks. Only thing worse is a tupperware Coleman canoe. Indestructible but unportagable.

I'd look at a solo-tandem canoe in either 14' or 15' or kayak in similar length. Like meoweowmeowmeow said, roller racks are a great thing. I'm a bit fitter than the average goon and lifting my 50 lb 17' canoe is difficult, not because of the weight but how damned awkward it is. Lifting it off of our old Subaru was an exercise in futility. Depending on your budget, there is a Wenonah Heron, 15', in ultralight aramid that weighs only 36 lbs for a price of $2899.

If you're near Madison it's worth a drive to go to Rutabaga. Probably the premiere canoe-kayak outfitter in the Midwest, if not entire country. Not sure how it is in covid days in regards to test paddling though.

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.

Fallen Rib

I am indeed in Madison! I was going to take their kayak class this summer, but they were cancelled in favor of 1 on 1 minimum 2 hour lessons, never got around to signing up for. I have a friend in the big sailboat club here, but he doesn't do anything that small.

My budget isn't quite that high, unfortunately. Used market more likely for me... Student loans, mortgage, car payment and I'm gov clerk, not a cool IT goon.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Arkhamina posted:

I am indeed in Madison! I was going to take their kayak class this summer, but they were cancelled in favor of 1 on 1 minimum 2 hour lessons, never got around to signing up for. I have a friend in the big sailboat club here, but he doesn't do anything that small.

My budget isn't quite that high, unfortunately. Used market more likely for me... Student loans, mortgage, car payment and I'm gov clerk, not a cool IT goon.

Start watching for Outfitters selling used boats and summer home cleanouts. Minocqua, Eagle River, Hayward etc. The downer about the outfitters is the boats err on the side of durability, not weight and most are 17-19 foot boats.

For example : https://duluth.craigslist.org/boa/d/grand-marais-wenonah-kevlar-boundary/7214985193.html that is a 17' kevlar Wenonah.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

My wife assisting with my canoeing in Klamath OR from a few years ago:



I really want to move to a place with cool lakes so I can do this every day.

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.

Fallen Rib

Oh! I used to live near the Klamath (in the pit that is Yreka, CA). Is the water still really low there? I recall going tubing and bottoming out pretty often. (This was the early 90s, though....)

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Arkhamina posted:

Oh! I used to live near the Klamath (in the pit that is Yreka, CA). Is the water still really low there? I recall going tubing and bottoming out pretty often. (This was the early 90s, though....)

This was near Klamath Falls, OR

Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


Do the Immersion Research Basic Paddle Pants and Basic Splash Jacket fit the bill for someone in the southeast US who wants to extend kayak fishing season? I'm probably looking at ambient temps around 45 and water temps a little above that (I think) as sort of the lower end of the scale of when I'd want to get out there.

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



Easychair Bootson posted:

Do the Immersion Research Basic Paddle Pants and Basic Splash Jacket fit the bill for someone in the southeast US who wants to extend kayak fishing season? I'm probably looking at ambient temps around 45 and water temps a little above that (I think) as sort of the lower end of the scale of when I'd want to get out there.

I have had good luck with inexpensive rain pants and this splash top, which looks similar to what you posted. So yeah, that stuff looks perfectly suitable. Synthetic layers underneath are key. Some booties like these help a lot when it's really too cold to be barefoot or in sandals.

Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


HenryJLittlefinger posted:

I have had good luck with inexpensive rain pants and this splash top, which looks similar to what you posted. So yeah, that stuff looks perfectly suitable. Synthetic layers underneath are key. Some booties like these help a lot when it's really too cold to be barefoot or in sandals.

I got some of those NRS Kicker Remix shoes and have been real happy with them so far. Iíve got merino base layers for days that I think will do the trick. If I can get a couple of seasons out of the cheap splash gear Iíll be happy.

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


ur in my world now posted:

i have a 5 mm wetsuit that I use when I want to paddle board in january. it works pretty good in combination with some neoprene gloves and boots. that and my wake vest keeps me toasty even in a lovely missouri winter. not bad for using the sit on top kayak in the middle of winter either. it kind of owns to listlessly float around the river in the snow and drink beer.

I'm also a diver, but a diver that despises wearing wetsuits unless they're absolutely required. Turns out SharkSkin used to make a non-hooded version of this, but without pockets. I found mine in the clearance rack of the local Divers Direct. I wear it diving, I wear it for cold-water kayaking, I wear it on boats when its cold, thing is fantastic. Its basically a hoodie made out of a fancy 3mm neoprene composite. Absolutely wonderful for cool-weather water activities.

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HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



Easychair Bootson posted:

I got some of those NRS Kicker Remix shoes and have been real happy with them so far. Iíve got merino base layers for days that I think will do the trick. If I can get a couple of seasons out of the cheap splash gear Iíll be happy.

Oh youíre set then.

One thing about splash layers: hang them on hangers (pants on suit pants hangers by the waist or cuffs) or stuff them into high-volume stuff sacks like you would a nice down sleeping bag when itís in storage. The liners in those will break down along folds after a couple seasons, and itíll start by flaking off a little bit at a time. Hung carefully or crumpled randomly and loosely, theyíll last a lot longer. Rinse the sweat out of the interior too, especially the collar.

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