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Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010




Hadlock posted:

There are worse decisions you could make

The marina just north of there is called brickyard cove, it's both pretty nice and has really cheap rates, plus you don't have to motor for 15 minutes in and out of the channel to go sailing

Should be a snap to get out and sail a lap around red rock island. It's a wooden boat so you can repair anything yourself with hand tools, some cotton and a can of paint

Also, as mentioned before, it's less than 27' so all the replacement parts are going to be very affordable, and if you get hit in the head with the boom or the wind picks up, you'll be able to handle things better

Of course all this advice goes out the window if you decide to pay others to maintain your boat for you, and/or the owner is lying and the hull is significant rotten

Well, the reason it would be a pretty iffy decision is that I don't know how to sail. At all. I do have a friend over in Livermore who knows how, and I've been thinking of taking lessons over at the Berkeley club, but right now I'm clueless and it's a weird time to start learning.

What's the marina situation over on the peninsula? I'm in South SF, and if I do eventually get a boat I'd like to keep it on this side of the bay.

Edit: the most shameful admission snipe

Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Dec 22, 2020

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Brisbane Marina is pretty tits, we were there for about a year and a half. It is super duper clean, has concrete docks (this is a good/best thing) and is well run by nit picky attentive staff. They always have slips open and they're pretty reasonable, but they're kind of a pain in the rear end to drive to from, say, north beach or anywhere in the city really. From South San Francisco I can't think of a better marina. Oyster Point marina shares the same dredged cut but I've never been there. Brisbane is like $290/mo for a folkboat? Guessing

Immediately north of the golden gate bridge is a tiny marina that's alarmingly cheap and has insane views of the GG bridge, it's like $190/mo or something. It also has an absolute baller bar that pre-covid was full of some really interesting characters. It would not surprise me that it's running as a covert covid speakeasy a mere 2000 ft from the coast guard station.The docks are made of rickety wood that looks like it must be at least 40 years old. Location can't be beat, unless you're trying to get home during an ebb tide

Comedy option: Pillar Point marina on the north end of half moon bay, pretty much direct access to the pacific ocean.

We were coming out of the pilliar point harbor once as a gray whale was swimming in. The outer harbor has a breakwater that narrows down to about 200' wide at the entrance. He saw us, we didn't see him (he was under water, and whales typically do not carry nav lights) so he surfaced arm's reach from the stern of the boat, a school bus of gray whale meat sort of rises to the surface of the water, rolls over and I see this giant watermelon-sized eyeball and dinner plate sized iris slowly rotate with crazy veins look directly at me and give me the stink eye before submarining himself again, never to be seen again

Big Taint
Oct 19, 2003



Haha I love whales but I donít want to be that close to one. Iíve had a few within a boat length and itís always a big pucker moment.

The harbor at Fort Baker is called the Presidio Marina, and the bar is the Presidio Yacht Club. A bunch of my friends are members, itís a great club if you like dive bars. The marina is usually full, and the docks are pretty janky. It also shares a lot of the downsides of being in one of the SF marinas: windy and foggy, lots of surge, shallow.

Folkboats are excellent. I think the bar to own an old wood one is how good of a woodworker are you/do you want to be? Wooden boat maintenance is intensive and you canít let it down for a moment or the boat can have some very big problems. You will be painting and varnishing constantly and replacing fasteners/planks/stringers often.

That said they are really nice boats to sail, thereís still an active fleet of them raced globally and one of the serious ones is in SF. Definitely a top five one design fleet in SF bay. My buddies have one and they do pretty well.

That one is worth a look, still has the wooden mast which is much better than the alloy ones, nothing scary about the hull in the pics, sail looks crispy, they put fresh paint on her this year. And the full cover helps keep them from getting weatherbeaten. The glassed deck could be an attempt to conceal something rotten, Iíd give it a close look.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Hadlock posted:

Imagine four crew on the edge of a boat. Say a direct copy of the ball crew nearest the bow is sent to the back of the line of crew and takes the place of the pit. The formerly pit becomes the jib trimmer, the jib becomes the rail meat, and the fourth falls off the cliff becomes the foredeck. Time works the same way.

Well then instead of being foredeck they just grab booze for the rest of the crew.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Big Taint posted:

Haha I love whales but I donít want to be that close to one. Iíve had a few within a boat length and itís always a big pucker moment.

I have three short graybles

1. Doing spinnaker cup from SF to Monterey, surfing downwind in an 1D35 we t-boned a whale with our ~7.5' keel. Boat came to a complete stop in the middle of monterey bay, ~2500 ft depth. At first I'd thought we'd hit a sandbar, but was way too deep for that. Eventually the whale wiggled loose, surfaced and let out a loud cry in our wake before disappearing

2. During one of the.... three bridge fiascos? corinthian cup doublehander? one of the boats in our class about a quarter mile ahead of us, a whale swam between his keel and rudder, destroyed the rudder/rudder bearings, that could have been us

3. Coming back from a different spinnaker cup, a whale bumped into the aft quarter of the boat, but did no damage. Kind of felt like when you're backing in to a parking spot and your wheel hits the wheel stop. Bump.

Big Taint
Oct 19, 2003



Oof youíre lucky the sudden stop didnít take out the kite/rig, thatís scary.

Jam Session is the boat that was deruddered in the TBF, one of the J105s.

Whales donít really have any predators so they arenít scared of anything, and they are curious about the silly boats we like to float around in. Not great for us with our fragile sailboats, worse for them when they get too close to a cargo ship. Hopefully someday we can figure out how to warn them not to get too close.

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006



Grimey Drawer

I don't have enough struggle in my life, need another place to dump all my energy

https://kenai.craigslist.org/boa/d/kasilof-1973-balboa-26-sailboat-trailer/7278951064.html

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





I've seen worse ways to spend $12,000

Expect to put $3000 into it before you put it in the water. Expect to replace the swivel bolt on the keel $200??), and all new standing rigging ($1200? $1800?). Also it's hard to tell but if that's vinyl covered lifelines, expect to replace those. Look into dyneema lifelines, but make your own decision if they're for you

How important is the trailerability of the boat to you? Fixed keel is better unless you plan on ramp launching it in weird places a lot, or plan on doing a lot of gunkholing

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Total daydreaming at the moment because I don't want a truck and don't want to get in line at the Whittier tunnel with every other jackhole in anchorage. Maybe stick it in the yard and tinker and dream of quitting my job

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!


Hadlock posted:

Expect to put $3000 into it before you put it in the water. Expect to replace the swivel bolt on the keel $200??), and all new standing rigging ($1200? $1800?). Also it's hard to tell but if that's vinyl covered lifelines, expect to replace those. Look into dyneema lifelines, but make your own decision if they're for you

Briefly, what are the advantages/disadvantages of dyneema lifelines? I'm lazily daydreaming about a potential future boat in a couple years.

Karma Comedian
Feb 2, 2012

Dr. E/N, PhD




Safety Dance posted:

Briefly, what are the advantages/disadvantages of dyneema lifelines? I'm lazily daydreaming about a potential future boat in a couple years.

Pound for pound, dyneema  is ~ 15 times stronger than steel. It also weighs less. So you get stronger lifelines that don't weight as much and also don't rust

Karma Comedian fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Mar 6, 2021

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Safety Dance posted:

Briefly, what are the advantages/disadvantages of dyneema lifelines? I'm lazily daydreaming about a potential future boat in a couple years.

Well let's start with the cons

1. Although dyneema is extremely UV resistant, it's not 100% UV resistant
2. This is the really important one: it's about as chafe resistant as a pair of gym socks. This is mostly an issue with spinnaker sheets, and reaching/running where the main and jib sheets hang over the lifelines. A lot of offshore racing rules explicitly ban dyneema lifelines because a 2 week ocean race to Hawaii probably causes more chafe and wear than the average boat owner puts on theirs in a decade

Pros:

1. It's about a quarter the cost of stainless steel wire
2. Does not require any special crimping equipment (I generally use a 12" section of coat hangar wire and some electrical tape for splicing)
3. Will never rust (generally not an issue on freshwater boats)
4. It's super soft, like a pair of new gym socks, feels good on your hands
5. You can repair/adjust the lifelines yourself without any special tools
6. You get to brag about complex sounding stuff like "brummel lock splices" everytime somebody comes on board
7. Did I mention it's a quarter the cost and you can do this yourself

The big plus for stainless wire is it's 100% uv resistant, will last for decades, and is extremely chafe resistant, but it requires special tools, and if it breaks down, you get little snags that will tear open your hand/leg

Also a brummel lock splice takes about 12 seconds to do and is nearly impossible to gently caress up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohZyauGKfmc

If you want to play around with this stuff, splicing etc, that premium ropes channel has all sorts of stuff on it including soft shackles. I bought a 100' spool of 4mm dyneema (4000 lb test) for $40 on Amazon, it's held up to several years of summer racing here in SF so it is probably strong enough for day sailing on a lake somewhere. I'd maybe buy the name brand stuff for lifelines though. This stuff is good to learn on and make soft shackles to impress your friends:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N5F72YW

It does come with a sort of black waxy coating though which is annoying, but price it against amsteel dyneema and it's a screaming deal. One local rigger calls it "chineema"

While we're on the topic this is my favorite soft shackle video. This is the type I make, except without the blue helper thread. This makes a lot of people really angry because there's several theoretical problems with it, but the truth is, in practice none of them have ever come close to failing in ~4 years and they're easy to open and close. They're also pretty easy to make, I made one while motoring to the start line one saturday morning because the main sheet traveler blew up and we needed a good way to secure things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY--UwBrem0

Hadlock fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Mar 6, 2021

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!


Awesome, thanks! I actually ordered a small spool of 1/8" (4mm-ish) dyneema and some fids the other day, because it looked like it'd be fun to make some soft shackles and try some splices.

Karma Comedian
Feb 2, 2012

Dr. E/N, PhD




I'm in love with a CT56 in my marina

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!


Karma Comedian posted:

I'm in love with a CT56 in my marina

If it's legal in your state, love is love.


Hadlock posted:

Also a brummel lock splice takes about 12 seconds to do and is nearly impossible to gently caress up:


This is kinda fun. It'll get better when I get a proper 1/8" fid (somehow I managed this in 1/8" line with a 1/4" fid)

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Safety Dance posted:

This is kinda fun. It'll get better when I get a proper 1/8" fid (somehow I managed this in 1/8" line with a 1/4" fid)

Blue painter's tape, a sharpie, and a chopstick will get you places. Add a wire coat hangar and half an hour and the world is your oyster

That looks really good for a first try

Big Taint
Oct 19, 2003



I like a long piece of seizing wire bent in half for splicing 12-strand. I did dyneema lifelines on the Catalina, with heat shrink where they went through the stanchions. Held up great for the several years before I sold it. The splices will stretch a bit when you tension them so make sure you make them a bit on the shorter side so you can accommodate that. I lashed one end with dyneema lashing line so it was easy to fine-tune the tension and I had a big margin of error for length, my lashings ended up being 2-4Ē.

monsterzero
May 12, 2002
-=TOPGUN=-
Boys who love airplanes Boys who love boys


Lipstick Apathy

Yeah, I spliced a bunch of soft shackles and a couple of dyneema to double braid lines last year. A knitting needle for pushing and a bent piece of stainless tig rod (which I also use for lock wiring turnbuckles) for pulling were my favorite tools.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013



do any of you here actually live on their boat? if so how is it? living like that and just sort of cruising around the world is a dream i've always had although i'm not really currently in a position where i could seriously consider doing it

here in holland there have been a few notably young children sailing solo to america and i've always wondered how they manage that. is sailing something you can learn pretty quickly and then actually put into practice, like driving a car? or is it harder than that? in university i considered joining a sailing fraternity and ive always kind of regretted not doing it

Rob Rockley
Feb 23, 2009





Shibawanko posted:

do any of you here actually live on their boat? if so how is it? living like that and just sort of cruising around the world is a dream i've always had although i'm not really currently in a position where i could seriously consider doing it

here in holland there have been a few notably young children sailing solo to america and i've always wondered how they manage that. is sailing something you can learn pretty quickly and then actually put into practice, like driving a car? or is it harder than that? in university i considered joining a sailing fraternity and ive always kind of regretted not doing it

You can learn to sail competently in a few days in good weather. In the US you have classes like ASA 101 (which I took a couple years back), and I presume there are European equivalent classes. It was pretty comprehensive and good, although the instructor was a dick. Best way is to find an experienced friend with a boat cause all it will cost you is a few beers, though.

Sailing across the open ocean is fine and people do it all the time, but I think it's kinda like the difference between driving to work and doing a cross-country road trip. There's a lot more planning and stress and legal stuff to consider. Being alone a thousand miles away from anyone and sailing through a storm is beyond my abilities, and I plan to take the higher level classes or find someone trustworthy to learn. As for living on the boat, I'd like to know more too since that's kind of a necessity for a long trip. Someone posted a blog of his on the other boat thread a while back which is informative, and there's no shortage of youtube videos on the topic, but it's nice to hear additional opinions.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Shibawanko posted:

do any of you here actually live on their boat? if so how is it? living like that and just sort of cruising around the world is a dream i've always had although i'm not really currently in a position where i could seriously consider doing it

here in holland there have been a few notably young children sailing solo to america and i've always wondered how they manage that. is sailing something you can learn pretty quickly and then actually put into practice, like driving a car? or is it harder than that? in university i considered joining a sailing fraternity and ive always kind of regretted not doing it

As for living on a boat, there's an awful lot of overlap with living in a van. You can generally stand up in a boat, and you get a flush toilet, but it's about the same otherwise. If you don't like somewhere you can get up and leave. Your monthly costs can range from $450 to $3500/mo depending on lifestyle. The best man at my wedding bought a used blue water boat and lived aboard for three years (my mom owns the boat now) and he enjoyed it as a single guy.

Sailing is not difficult to pick up, go find a yacht club and volunteer to crew as "rail meat" you'll pick up the basics in a couple of weeks. The downside is that things can go sideways very quickly and there's a ton of edge and corner cases you need to be aware of. If you thread your whisker pole through your standing rigging for the genoa, and then autogybe in 25 knots of breeze, you're likely to bring down mast. Seems pretty obvious, but only if you know autogybing is a major risk.

Most people crossing oceans have more experience than they let on, or they pick a particularly good weather window. There's countless stories of less competent people crossing oceans in rubber rafts on purpose though.

Do a couple of regattas and see how you feel. Crewing is free, and there's free beer. Expect to put $15,000 into a $5,000 boat to make it seaworthy.

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