Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

JOHN CENA posted:

there's the third scum.

You've said that a couple times, but haven't cased me.

I've been a lot lower key this game than I usually am. RL sucks, and people were being upset at each other in thread and I'm low on bandwidth for dealing with it all. This is the best I've got right now.

This day feels like it's been a week already.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



I'm probably not going to the lake tomorrow anymore because the weather's supposed to suck so I'll most likely be around for deadline. Saturday though is paddle day for sure, this covid gut is getting depressing


tpink posted:

I am going to repeat what Sci said already, but wow, you and I really have different takeaways from JC's posting and the thunderdome stuff. I'll admit that my read of JC is probably influenced by the last game we just finished playing, where he was similarly performative and frustrated, and ended up flipping scum. But whoo boy, that does not read town to me.

(And I'm a he/him, btw. Men can wear pink. :D)

What reads not town about it? I really can't see scum confidently going that hard (sorry about the mistake! Never again :hfive:)

tpink posted:

Cheese, what made you change your mind from thinking JC's proposed thunderdome was silly to going along with it?

I did not say the thunderdome was silly, that was in response to the self vote which was silly. I don't think it's that out there to shut down the dumb self vote and then after interacting be open to responding to a shared read

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



Scientastic posted:

OK, here we go.

Look who knows in advance that Spoonsy is town:
Sorry your bad vote sucked. This is also the third time in D2 you accused somebody that wasn't into the spoonsy lunch of outside knowledge which reads kind of like you're shopping it around until it sticks

Scientastic @ JC posted:

I have reread, and thereís one player whose posts make it sound like they knew Spoons was town...

Scientastic @ Sal posted:

I find the ďIím not defending him
In the slightestĒ really powerfully self-conscious of Sal not wanting to look like he has inside knowledge of Spoonsí alignment.

quote:

Look who is trying to have it both ways on Sandwolf vs. JC:
Misrepresenting, I did not do this. The chain of posts you quoted;
  • Me pressing his sandwolf vote, saying that reading him over I was leaning town based on content but still had a gut scum read on him I couldn't articulate
  • Me asking why he voted himself under no pressure. This really doesn't have much to do with the other two posts
  • Me choosing to vote sandwolf after he helped validate my read

quote:

Look who is making lazy call outs that show he's not really interested in scumhunting, he's just dropping into the thread to stir poo poo without actually contributing.
Disagree, including specifically with what you quoted to try to reinforce

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



Scientastic posted:

His town reads are all couched in equivocation,
Incorrect & misrepresented again

quote:

his null reads are all worded in such a way that he can flip them to town/scum either way without any serious effort or reasoning,
That sounds like, by definition a null read. If it wasn't null it would be in one of those other two directions

quote:

and his scum reads are both awful. His call about RF is not backed up by the evidence, and he provides no thought whatsoever on Sandwolf

Fair re: RF, I do want to follow up. JC has pretty comprehensively explained why sandwolf is probably scum I feel and I don't have anything helpful to add atm, if I do I'll post it. Just trying to trust my gut more

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



tldr re Sci, that was mostly shite.

I feel like I'm giving you more of a pass than I should because I always feel like you're scum and probably still feel kinda bad about cuomo time but I'm not the first person calling you on misrepresenting them and it's probably fair to point out the irony of you calling out lazy and bad scumhunting while doing the same & heavily skewing things that you're even quoting? A confusing strategy to be sure

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



spacing in vienna posted:

I've been a lot lower key this game than I usually am. RL sucks, and people were being upset at each other in thread and I'm low on bandwidth for dealing with it all. This is the best I've got right now.

This day feels like it's been a week already.

I'm feeling this. It's exhausting working a 14 hour day because of covid layoffs & trying to help get work and then reading people either calling each other pissbabys or trying to justify it.

I waited a while for this game to start so I'm trying but it would be awesome if we could shave 10-15% off of some of the toxic poo poo

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



Lol ok

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

cheese sandwich posted:

I waited a while for this game to start so I'm trying but it would be awesome if we could shave 10-15% off of some of the toxic poo poo

Everything else aside, I agree with this. Itís a big turn off when these games turn too personal and heated tbh. And I get that part of Mafia is needling people to get reactions, and it might be a fine line, but I kind of hate it when it gets to the point when people seem to genuinely get upset because that stops being fun.

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



Sandwolf posted:

You can vote anywhere Sal just explain it, your reasoning against Hum was just very weak and you didnít really flesh it out as to be at all convincing

Sandwolf posted:

Okay but the problem with this Sal is it looks like nothing, itís so easily fabricated, youíre not even pretending to have logic behind it, just a purely emotional feel?

Itís bad because it doesnít seem like itís trying to convince anyone, it doesnít appear like you actually want Hum lunched, you just have to have some read today so youíre doubling down on it being made up.

Also, a lot of people are providing reasoning for their votes, so this just feels like youíre tryna draw attention other places. If you feel another player is making votes without any reasoning and itís scummy, call them out.

I would argue that emotional reads are the easiest to lean into or feel defensive about but that it's not inherently scummy? Regardless if I agree or not it's objectively not nothing since he is pointing at behaviour to try to justify it

And I mean Hum was being a poo poo disturber eod D1 and arguably still is. And you're doubling down on this saying he's not trying to convince anyone while also trying to draw attention away (from himself, even). This poo poo w Sal is pretty bad all around

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



My wild poo poo disturber play where I call people out for not playing mafia or commit a hate crime by indirectly referring to someone as a piss baby

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control




Hum is barely disturbing any poo poo in this game. Mid tier disturbance at best

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Mr. Humalong posted:

My wild poo poo disturber play where I call people out for not playing mafia or commit a hate crime by indirectly referring to someone as a piss baby

:rolleyes:

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


tpink posted:

Everything else aside, I agree with this. Itís a big turn off when these games turn too personal and heated tbh. And I get that part of Mafia is needling people to get reactions, and it might be a fine line, but I kind of hate it when it gets to the point when people seem to genuinely get upset because that stops being fun.

yeah im not happy with how some players have conducted themselves in this game.



also the cheese vote is really dumb.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


Mr. Humalong posted:

My wild poo poo disturber play where I call people out for not playing mafia or commit a hate crime by indirectly referring to someone as a piss baby

you suck, man.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


like, it's a game. take apart peoples cases. don't call names or insult people personally. it's super mean spirited.

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



Retro Futurist posted:

Hum is barely disturbing any poo poo in this game. Mid tier disturbance at best

That's basically all he's doing, particularly wrt the context that I made that comment towards which was Sal & Sandwolf re eod d1

Whether or not he's doing it successfully or not, sure mid tier

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Masonry Update

11:44pm - John Cena - I feel a ton better, so vote is moving to Cheese eh?
11:52pm - SalTheBard - I don't know

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo




SalTheBard posted:

Masonry Update

11:44pm - John Cena - I feel a ton better, so vote is moving to Cheese eh?
11:52pm - SalTheBard - I don't know

no wonder you are so sure of each other

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



This is what initially rubbed me the wrong way while I was doing reads yesterday, shortly before eod d1

SalTheBard re Spoons posted:

This is a very yikeseroo post for me, but what is more interesting to me was how quickly people were like "Lets cuddle this person!" it seems very opportunistic IMHO. To be clear I'm not defending Spoonsy's post in the slightest, I just feel like the quick change, especially in peoples votes are a little O_o.

Retro Futurist re that Sal post posted:

So what you're saying is Spoonsy is town and you're scum trying to look good here for when he flips?

and then opens d2 with

Retro Futurist posted:

##vote Sal ayup

Retro Futurist re Sal pressing the vote posted:

Yes, it is my vote. Here you are.

Retro Futurist re his earlier post posted:

You felt iffy yesterday and then this distancing post felt super off

It feels like he's projecting on Sal on what he's doing here (or setting up to do) himself and just tunnelling in. This is safe as poo poo for scum because he's laying groundwork to shade Sal d2 when spoons flips town and leaving room to act like Sal is unreasonable when he reacts. Like what I was calling Sci on earlier but actually setting it up well

All fairness to Opop he did make a call on JC shortly after I'd made this this first comment about his play but before that all he'd done was lazily shade Sal & comment on self meta

but stuff like

Scientastic posted:

RF is pretty town, heís been making alignment calls and calling out bad posts in a townie way.

Retro Futurist posted:

I'm doing more work than like 2/3 of the people here

is patently false if you've been paying attention to him or spend 30 seconds looking over I was going to say his interactions with Sal but anything he's actually posted really

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



Retro Futurist posted:

I am very helpful but I will grant you I come off as scummy often. I do have a pretty good track record at catching scum though

Retro Futurist posted:

If you're not reading the thread and have to make a read just to have one, saying that I'm lurking is usually a very safe case to make. Unfortunately for cheese I'm participating more than usual on this one.

defending yourself with self meta is p scummy. If this is you participating idk man

For what it's worth though I haven't played with you in like 8 years and I was happy when I saw you were opop :)

cheese sandwich
Feb 9, 2009



Now that I'm into this I'm feeling opop more if sandwolf isn't happening today ##vote opop

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


just to clarify, I still have a fever and my comment to sal more specifically was it appears they're trying to put the vote on cheese, because as long as sal and I are both alive and a non scum like cheese is voted, there is still doubt over us and it let's them string along a convenient target. so what sal is saying isn't inaccurate except for my physical being, but I just wanted to better get across what our small chat was like today.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


cheese sandwich posted:

defending yourself with self meta is p scummy. If this is you participating idk man

For what it's worth though I haven't played with you in like 8 years and I was happy when I saw you were opop :)

I think he's town this does feel like standard opop

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Hal Incandenza posted:

Sal probably comes off slightly townier after all this nonsense but he got pretty upset as scum in the past too so heís not out of the woods.

I donít agree with this, I think Sal looks scummier for his recent posting, I think the anger is feigned, largely because I canít believe anyone would get so ostensibly angry about such a weak ďinsultĒ

quote:

It would be nice if Sal could talk about who besides hum is scum instead of relitigating votes with no analysis
Also this: he is just focusing on defending himself against specific posts that fit his narrative, instead of engaging in any real scumhunting

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


JOHN CENA posted:

that is my case on sandwolf. i request all votes are either on himself or myself.

I donít think your case is good and I donít think your either/or is good

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

JOHN CENA posted:

like, it's a game. take apart peoples cases. don't call names or insult people personally. it's super mean spirited.

Thatís where I am at too. This seems like a good rule of thumb. Like, if you think somebody is putting forward a bulllshit case, by all means tear it down as aggressively as you want. But you donít have to tell the other person theyíre a loving idiot in the process. :shrug:

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

cheese sandwich posted:


What reads not town about it? I really can't see scum confidently going that hard (sorry about the mistake! Never again :hfive:)


:hfive: indeed!

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


cheese sandwich posted:

Sorry your bad vote sucked. This is also the third time in D2 you accused somebody that wasn't into the spoonsy lunch of outside knowledge which reads kind of like you're shopping it around until it sticks
Part of your defence is that several people have done the same scummy thing and Iíve called them out for it and called them scummy? OK.

cheese sandwich posted:

Misrepresenting, I did not do this. The chain of posts you quoted;
  • Me pressing his sandwolf vote, saying that reading him over I was leaning town based on content but still had a gut scum read on him I couldn't articulate
  • Me asking why he voted himself under no pressure. This really doesn't have much to do with the other two posts
  • Me choosing to vote sandwolf after he helped validate my read
I am not the only person who thought your ďthis is sillyĒ referred to JCís setting up of a false dichotomy, and I think itís unreasonable of you to accuse me of misrepresentation in doing so. Are you saying you DONíT think JCís him or me thing is silly?

cheese sandwich posted:

Disagree, including specifically with what you quoted to try to reinforce
Fortunately for me, I donít need to persuade you to agree that youíre scum, I think those posts speak for themselves, and others in the thread can read them and make up their minds.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


cheese sandwich posted:

That sounds like, by definition a null read. If it wasn't null it would be in one of those other two directions

Youíre right, I hate null reads for that very reason. Everything you posted is written in such a way that you can flip away from your read with no explanation. Your post of null reads and couched town calls gives the appearance of scumhunting but adds nothing to the game, thatís kind of my point.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


All of the people decrying the ďmental effortĒ of engaging with a game that has become toxic need to go back and actually read the thread. Hum posted a single incredibly innocuous insult and Sal completely overreacted. If anyone is creating poo poo and making the game unpleasant, itís Sal for the outrageously sanctimonious bullshit he posted in response.

And theyíre just posts in an online game, if you canít play because ďpissbabyĒ causes too much emotional turmoil you probably need to work on regaining some sense of proportion.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


If Sal hadnít gone completely overboard, I doubt anyone else would have even noticed Humís grave insult

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control




cheese sandwich posted:

Now that I'm into this I'm feeling opop more if sandwolf isn't happening today ##vote opop

Youíre case is all just made up stuff, pretty clear you decided to call me scum and then bent reality to fit that.

Sal/Cheese/JC scum team probably

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Iíll stop talking about this now, but you all got to add a bit more while I was asleep, I just wanted to say my piece

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Retro Futurist posted:

Youíre case is all just made up stuff, pretty clear you decided to call me scum and then bent reality to fit that.

Sal/Cheese/JC scum team probably

This is pretty much exactly where I am

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control




Scientastic posted:

If Sal hadnít gone completely overboard, I doubt anyone else would have even noticed Humís grave insult

Thereís a definite line. Games have gotten weirdly aggressive and personal lately and thatís just not fun for anyone, but yeah ďpissbabyĒ seems pretty far from that line.
OTOH I donít think itís offsides to be able to say ďhey please donít call me namesĒ and have that be respected. Itís silly to not be able to play because someone called you a name, but itís equally silly to think you canít play without calling someone names.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


call my bluff then.


vote for me.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



JOHN CENA posted:

you suck, man.

Please donít do this.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



Actually I know how to solve this problem

##vote sal

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


yknow what


##vote sal

:redhammer:

I'll take this into my own hands.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

: ghost: Have fun everyone :ghost:

Except Sci... And maybe Humalong.... And maybe Cena..... And maybe tpink..... And maybe Sandwolf..... And maybe SiV..... And maybe forum mafia Superstar Toalpaz..... And maybe Spoonsy...... And maybe Bif.... And that is everyone I can think of sorry.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply