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What the gently caress is going on with these dudes? It's an entire species of assholes that take offense over every perceived slight. How did they get advanced technology when all they ever want to do is yell and fight constantly? Is there some nerdlinger class of Klingons that we never see? How the gently caress do they manage to keep a fleet of Starships running when you have a ship full of dickheads who grumble over every order? Do we ever seen Klingon engineers? How the hell can you have a functioning society where everyone is a member of the goddamn warrior class? Did the idea of Klingon honor that Worf believes in ever really exist or is he just a weeb? Or is he actually the only Klingon who is keeping it real? Is Worf really just a big joke... like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LnwLn9vnKo
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Jul 22, 2020 18:58
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I liked Klingon Lawyer who saw the courtroom as his battlefield.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:39
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Yeah Worf is a total weeb. Klingons were more fun before TNG- Klingon fandom was a big part of old Trek fandom, and a HUGE part of the 'culture' that was considered canon was based on John M Ford's novels The Final Reflection and How Much For Just The Planet. These presented Klingons as not some kind of pseudo-samurai warrior race, but much deeper people with a lot of guile and strategy behind their thinking instead of the guys we ended up with in official canon later. These two books were the basis of most of the Klingon culture in the FASA Star Trek RPGs as well. They are a lot of fun to read with some good humor as well and I recommend giving them a shot. edit: Discovery's Klingon afterlife "The Black Fleet" was originally presented in The Final Reflection. GATOS Y VATOS fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 21:42
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Zesty posted:I liked Klingon Lawyer who saw the courtroom as his battlefield. I know you're talking about the DS9 lawyer, but I'm going to pretend it was Lawyer Worf, whom I imagined lost every case. 
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Jul 22, 2020 22:31
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I liked it when Quark proved his Klingon wife's former husband had his life ruined through dishonorable means.
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Jul 23, 2020 08:45
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Worf is Schrodinger's Weeb-- he is the dorkiest cosplayer ever who based his entire adult identity around the Klingon equivalent of the novel "Shogun" yet because he forged that identity in paradise with no corrupting influences until he was already an adult he improbably shoot the moon and became the actual Klingon ideal, and one of my favorite details in Star Trek was the immediate and obvious realization that doing so would make him hated by most actual Klingons.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:39
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i still can't help but see calling worf a "weeaboo" or "weeb" as just so unnecessarily denigrating like, did weeaboo stop being an insult at some point?
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Jul 24, 2020 02:00
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Jul 24, 2020 02:15
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super sweet best pal posted:I liked it when Quark proved his Klingon wife's former husband had his life ruined through dishonorable means. House of quark is a great episode
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Jul 24, 2020 02:22
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mind the walrus posted:and one of my favorite details in Star Trek was the immediate and obvious realization that doing so would make him hated by most actual Klingons. There aren't many interactions Worf has with other Klingons that don't end with them rolling their eyes out of their heads.
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Jul 24, 2020 03:48
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Klingons, like most ST aliens, aren't really 'cultures' so much as 'ham-fisted moral lessons about 20th century American pop culture myths.' Which is funny but like a lot of ST basically stands up to no internal scrutiny.Farmer Crack-rear end posted:i still can't help but see calling worf a "weeaboo" or "weeb" as just so unnecessarily denigrating No people are mocking Worf.
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Jul 24, 2020 05:52
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Trek's monocultural planets has always been lazy bullshit.
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Jul 24, 2020 06:23
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Trek's monocultural planets has always been lazy bullshit. gently caress, monocultural EMPIRES. From TOS to Voyager you'd think that the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire, two massive, militaristic, expansionist super galactic powers, consisted entirely of Qo'noS and Romulus. At least modern Trek is paying some mind to the idea that the Klingons and Romulans each conquered a fuckton of alien species as they expanded from their respective homeworlds and forced them to become Klingons/Romulans like how everyone in the Roman Empire was a "Roman" even if they lived their entire life next door to Hadrian's Wall.
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Jul 24, 2020 07:35
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It's also extremely funny that each of these empires seems to be not just monocultural but nearly monoplanetary - the Cardassians and Romulans seem to have like 90%+ of their total power in their capitals, less like the Roman Empire and more like the Venetian one. E: Also being the weird history guy, "monocultural empire" is practically an oxymoron, the distinctive feature of empires is that they're polities that successfully bind multiple cultures in some fashion (usually swordpoint). Tulip fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 08:25
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Tulip posted:It's also extremely funny that each of these empires seems to be not just monocultural but nearly monoplanetary - the Cardassians and Romulans seem to have like 90%+ of their total power in their capitals, less like the Roman Empire and more like the Venetian one. I did like how they used the redesigns and art design changes of the Klingons to take this into account. Like the TOS Klingons we see are a different race of people whose world(s) are part of the overall Klingon Empire, their language was called Klingonese in TOS and they made that a separate language from Klingon the actual from Kronos Klingons speak in The Motion Picture/TNG/etc. I forget but I think the Orions (?), Nausiccans, and a few other races we see in TOS and TNG/etc. are in the Klingon Empire too. Same with the various Klingons we see in Discovery, they gave them a level of diversity that shows off each Klingon design we see throughout the franchise and at that point they're all warring mini-kingdoms from their own worlds with their own fleets/etc. It always made it feel more like the Klingons had a huge variety of families and factions and geographic space to manage even if the budgetary realities meant we usually got just a couple of sets repeatedly and not a lot of costume variety until more recently. I always appreciated that extra effort with the Klingons because it made them more believable, the other races really quickly hit the brick wall of like "look we already have like ONE matte painting that we use for three different planets so..." even if they were empires with multiple colonized planets and stuff in the cannon. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 14:11
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super sweet best pal posted:I liked it when Quark proved his Klingon wife's former husband had his life ruined through dishonorable means. House of Quark is an interesting one. Apparently Grilka's whole issue revolves around how she can't get a fair hearing for her problems specifically because she's nobility- they're expected to be above all that financial crap, and obviously the High Council doesn't have the time to deal with issues of being scammed, but Klingons DO have accountants and such, but they're about as well-regarded as Rom is by Ferengi. A lower court wouldn't see as much shame in bringing in an expert on the topic since they don't have as much to lose from it. Came up in the other thread that 'honor' is basically more like 'face' in practice; about presenting the appearance of your actions, not appearing to be cowardly or weak, and not engaging in specific activities deemed dishonourable. Quark manages to get the Council on his side because he manipulates the situation to show the other guy to be a coward engineering a fight with a foe who can't possibly harm him, but Quark does fulfil Klingon honour by (appearing to) bravely accept his inevitable death rather than surrender or retreat.
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Jul 24, 2020 15:46
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It wasn't the real point of the episode but I liked how the first parts of House of Quark have a series of Klingons angrily demanding to know if Quark killed the Klingon in question properly and Quark (and I) couldn't parse the context and tone of the question to figure out what their angle was. Just, kind of neat that a the translators were not perfect enough to overcome general cultural competency (taking for granted that a Klingon would understand the subtext and context of the questions more gracefully).
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Jul 25, 2020 00:22
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Yeah, it puts the viewer in Quark's position where he's out of his depth in a culture he knows very little about with values that are very alien to him, and he has to learn to navigate it quickly. (Especially since DS9 often has the Ferengi as standins for 20th century humans) I feel there's some interesting dynamics and comparisons between Ferengi and Klingons, especially with how a lot of Ferengi are concerned about masculine posturing in their own way. Like when Worf buys Nog's tooth sharpener.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:20
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The Klingons talk constantly about making conquests, but they never reference what happens to the conquered. Heck, the Cardassians did do some conquest, and then there was a whole awkward thing where they had to tell the humans to please leave, as if the people on the land you conquer are just awkwardly in the way instead of being part of the value that conquerors seize. Maybe the Klingons have a slave race of nerds living on their moon that do all the technological development that they're too embarrassed about.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:11
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Klingons talk constantly about making conquests, but they never reference what happens to the conquered. Heck, the Cardassians did do some conquest, and then there was a whole awkward thing where they had to tell the humans to please leave, as if the people on the land you conquer are just awkwardly in the way instead of being part of the value that conquerors seize. B'lana mentions on at least one episode of Voyager that yes, the warriors get all the glory in Klingon society, but they never would have made it off of Qo'noS without engineers, who do indeed exist in Klingon society. But yeah, it stands to reason that the actual Klingon-Klingons from Qo'noS probably conquered a more technically adept race with sheer brute force and numbers and integrated their technology and workforce into their burgeoning empire. Also it's all but canon that a LOT of the technology the Klingons utilize, from cloaking to the Bird of Prey itself, was straight up stolen from the Romulans and reverse engineered to Klingon standards.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:45
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Klingons talk constantly about making conquests, but they never reference what happens to the conquered. Heck, the Cardassians did do some conquest, and then there was a whole awkward thing where they had to tell the humans to please leave, as if the people on the land you conquer are just awkwardly in the way instead of being part of the value that conquerors seize. TOS actually does deal with Klingon occupied planets, mentioning repression and authoritarian policies. nine-gear crow posted:B'lana mentions on at least one episode of Voyager that yes, the warriors get all the glory in Klingon society, but they never would have made it off of Qo'noS without engineers, who do indeed exist in Klingon society. But yeah, it stands to reason that the actual Klingon-Klingons from Qo'noS probably conquered a more technically adept race with sheer brute force and numbers and integrated their technology and workforce into their burgeoning empire. IIRC, one of the backstories actually straight rips the Kzinti in that the Klingons were conquered by a technologically advanced civilisation and used as subject-soldiers, then rebelled and took the technology for their own ends. And the cloaking devices were from a brief, ill-fated alliance with the Romulans.
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Jul 25, 2020 08:04
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It's hard to believe the Romulans would willing just give their cloaking tech away, even to an ally. Had to be stolen. Which is dishonorable!!
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Jul 25, 2020 14:29
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Not all Klingons are warriors, early DS9 showed us they can be awesome chefs too.
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Jul 25, 2020 15:00
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Klingons talk constantly about making conquests, but they never reference what happens to the conquered. Heck, the Cardassians did do some conquest, and then there was a whole awkward thing where they had to tell the humans to please leave, as if the people on the land you conquer are just awkwardly in the way instead of being part of the value that conquerors seize. They conquered the greatest threat of all: Tribbles
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Jul 25, 2020 17:21
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Bogus Adventure posted:They conquered the greatest threat of all: Tribbles for awhile until scotty beamed a bunch onto one of their ships because he's a gigantic troll
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Jul 25, 2020 18:33
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blatman posted:for awhile until scotty beamed a bunch onto one of their ships because he's a gigantic troll Qo'noS: Tribble-free since 2273
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Jul 25, 2020 19:16
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blatman posted:for awhile until scotty beamed a bunch onto one of their ships because he's a gigantic troll It's extremely impressive the Klingons didn't declare it an act of war.
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Jul 25, 2020 23:26
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Hispanic! At The Disco posted:Not all Klingons are warriors, early DS9 showed us they can be awesome chefs too. Klingon Opera Chef is the best DS9 character with Garak as a distant second and everyone else a much more distant third 
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Jul 26, 2020 01:21
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Klingons loving rule and I guess OP got wedgied by one because how dare you even question their greatness???
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Jul 26, 2020 04:57
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Klingons totally give people wedgies. You can just tell.
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Jul 26, 2020 05:04
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Psycho Landlord posted:Klingon Opera Chef is the best DS9 character with Garak as a distant second and everyone else a much more distant third Dash Rendar posted:Klingons totally give people wedgies. You can just tell.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:37
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mind the walrus posted:Klingons have 30 different words for "wedgie." But oddly, no words for "purple nurple."
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Jul 31, 2020 14:54
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Hispanic! At The Disco posted:Not all Klingons are warriors, early DS9 showed us they can be awesome chefs too. I've never seen them eat anything but worms.
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Aug 3, 2020 19:44
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Star Trek was always "morality plays in space with contemporary ethics" and how consistent the different actors of the plays are between appearances have always been secondary to the plot Which is a good thing, btw
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Aug 3, 2020 22:44
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:I've never seen them eat anything but worms. people in the future loving love worms
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Aug 4, 2020 02:14
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:I've never seen them eat anything but worms. You gotta get the spices right on your worms.
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Aug 4, 2020 02:53
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Every indication is that Klingon worms are loving delicious
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Aug 4, 2020 07:31
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Psycho Landlord posted:Klingon Opera Chef is the best DS9 character with Garak as a close second and a Sisko distant third FTFY E: I liked it when high-grav wheelchair lady almost fukkin headbutted him because the worms were dead. 
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Aug 4, 2020 16:46
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I really like the idea that the freaky rear end Klingon live worms are legitimately incredibly tasty. Some EU suggests they're actually more tasty to the human palate than to Klingons, who aren't as big on the taste but love the feeling of their bodies killing live food. Klingon food in general is interesting, since it makes a lot of sense for a carnivore species. Also reminded that Star Trek Online has a card game mission about making Klingon-Ferengi fusion cuisine, which makes sense given both species seem to be carnivores who like invertebrates as food on the go.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:21
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Aug 4, 2020 20:43
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