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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



POV played. Kevin down. Ian up. Nicole denied she knew and cried for her edit.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Nicole blames Day for this. They all do. Its Day’s fault they betrayed Ian and are now lying to him that he’s the pawn and are gonna blindside him on Thursday. Stupid selfish Day.

Ian: If I do go, that's just the game. It's okay.
Dani: It's not okay. Please don’t comfort me.

Day apologized to Ian for it and said she thinks he’ll survive this. Oh, Day.

They are of course lying to him and telling him he’s a pawn and Tyler is the target.
Ian: All I need is four votes because you'll break the tie in my favor.
Dani: …

But lets remember the real victim.
Nicole: She knew how upset I’d be and she still used the veto anyway.

You know what’s good gameplay? Blindsiding Ian. David, Kevin, and Day for the first jury vote. I mean that doesn’t look like a bitter voting block or anything. Its a good think Tyler got Bayleigh out before she could poison the jury again.

Cody promises Ian he’ll vote to keep him and says he’ll get Enzo to as well. This seems smart and decent.

Nicole: Why did she use it? Me and Dani are supposed to be her allies. We begged her not to use it and she used it, so where are her loyalties? I am not mad at anyone besides Da'Vonne right now.
Christmas-:Kevin knew he had the votes and she still used it. It's selfish.
YOU WERE LYING!!!!! WHAT THE gently caress!?!

Ian tells Day and David that he felt like he was a bad sport in BB14 so he’s just trying to be more sportsmanlike this time and remember its a game. To that end he told Tyler the best man wins.

Nicole: I love Day don't get me wrong but the way that she was so chipper…
Dani: I know it rubbed me the wrong way.
Christmas: Me too.
Dani: You know my heart is breaking and you're smiling.
Christmas: It's because it's her first win.

Nicole: Ian was saying it makes no sense.
Daniele: Well, come on? Kevin was going home.
Nicole: Yeah but... it wasn't necessary with the information she had.

Nicole: There is no way in hell Day would have saved me off the block.
Xmas: It's because of optics!

Cody: You (Da'Vonne) are now going to go or your friend is going to go very shortly. You benefitted for a week.



I hate them. I hate them all.
https://twitter.com/Tooms_BB/status/1305582661864357888

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


oh so the massive majority alliance is also really petulant and entitled too what a surprise, glad i checked out. cue ian realizing three weeks too late "oh drat maybe i should have worked with janelle and kaysar"

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I will say, I'm mildly interested in the edit on this. Because like from the way they're all acting I gotta assume they're going into the DR and going "ITS ALL DAY'S FAULT! SHE IS SO SELFISH AND CUSED ME TO BETRAY IAN!" And that's so detached from reality that they can't shape it into the narrative. So I'm curious what they do. They'll protect their majority as they always do but its gonna be really tough to write around Nicole blindsiding her bestest buddy Ian.

I mean, Ian hasn't been a main character so its not a big deal and probably won't be anything. But I look for silver linings.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!



What's the fallout if they actively seek out and show the lies and hypocrisy for the rest of the season? Mild cruel entertainment (still better imho than covering up for it) and people second guess signing onto the show in the future? There's the general feeling that these shows are supposed to have your back but not if you are too crazy or if your issue makes for good tv or can't be avoided for the narrative.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I think BB just generally tries to avoid making its viewers hate the HGS unless the game demands it. Its why none of Gr8ful's behavior was shown until they ganged up on Nicole publicly or none of Paulie's bad behavior was shown until he started openly attacking women and the house flipped on him. It has to happen in the game for BB to show it, otherwise they just assume that if everyone hated the cast then they'd stop watching.

Which makes sense. What kind of crazy person would just keep watching when they hated everyone?

...

...

...

When Memphis is the only person who recognizes they’re being dicks for no reason.
Christmas: Ian has to think he's staying.
Memphis: Why?
Christmas: To keep the peace.
Memphis: With Da'Vonne?
Christmas: Yeah, that'll shake her in the next HOH.

Dani tells Tyler about the aborted plan to interrupt the POV meeting and all vow to vote out Tyler to try and get Day not to use the POV. Tyler thinks she should have done it. Dani says it would have just embarrassed Day. Tyler things it would have been a good move anyway. Old Schoolers deeply confused by New Schoolers’ weird rear end level of sociopathic scumbaggery.

Nicole wants to give Ian a pity vote but everyone’s very against that since it will sell them all out.

But at least Dani covered her rear end.
EnzoL Dani put you on the block. You cant trust her.
Tyler: Hell no.
Enzo: No matter what deal she cut with you, you cant trust her.
Tyler: I have got to be real nice though. "I deserve it"
Enzo: Her HoH was a mess! She is getting rid of somebody that isn’t even coming after her.
Tyler: She is getting out her own best friend's loving best friend! She loving should have put you up.
Enzo” That's what I'm saying.

Nicole’s also all mad at Dani because Dani says she can’t give Ian a “pity vote” (hence forcing a tie and making Dani vote him out). Nicole says she just wants to convince Day, Kevin, and David to vote out Ian so she can not vote out Ian and Dani keeps “micro managing her.” Cody of course also wants Nicole to vote out Ian and to leave him taking the heat but he uses this to encourage Nicole to be mad at Dani.

Meanwhile Day and David are deciding they should get Ian out anyway since he’s the master strategist of the other side. Which is evidence by him being on the block. David congratulates Day on making a power move and making the alliance nominate a core member. They feel good about this and working with Tyler as an associate going forward.

Also Day sold out Dani to Tyler.
Day: Let me ask you this, at any point during Dani’s HOH, did you say to put me on the block?
Tyler: No. No. Did she say that?
Day: *silent*
Tyler: I am coming after her, it is so typical of her.

Tyler is the victim of everyone. Day and David are voting out Ian. Nicole will get away with her pity vote and pretending she didn’t screw Ian. This cast is so terrible. I’m now officially standing Nicole. She may be a terrible person but she deserves to win over the rest of them.

Bucswabe
May 2, 2009


I'm embarrassed about my early posts in this thread, so optimistic about having a great season of Big Brother.

This may be the season that finally kills my interest in the show. Unless they cast the next season with white people as the minority, I don't know how you salvage this franchise...

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Casting Questionnaire for BB23:

1. What does "Black Lives Matter" mean to you?
Proctor Manual: If the response includes "all", "blue", "political", or "Chicago" reject the applicant.

2. If the HOH wants you to vote our your friend what do you do?
Proctor Manual: If the response includes "the house" reject the applicant.

3. Who do you think the best player ever is?
Proctor Manual: If the response has "Tyler" or "Paul" reject the applicant. If they name anyone pre-BB14 advance them to the next round.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!



Bucswabe posted:

I'm embarrassed about my early posts in this thread, so optimistic about having a great season of Big Brother.

This may be the season that finally kills my interest in the show. Unless they cast the next season with white people as the minority, I don't know how you salvage this franchise...

Hunger Games it. Fans can pay to get advantages for their favorites and make requests. Microtransactions are an untapped reality tv market.

Or Open House. How would it change the game if they could openly see the internet reaction, whether completely unfiltered or curated by BB. Like say if the portraits arranged in the living room based live on their internet popularity like the charts, what would that stir up.

The game as is definitely needs an overhaul.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Yeah, I think the real solution is to just copy from BB Canada and gently caress with the HGs a ton. Make BB a character and do lots of fan voted elements that aren't just majority favoring powers. Keep them on their toes and don't let them fall into their bubble of "the house" mentality.

Although there's definitely fundamental problems with the casting focusing so heavily on young, white mactors and so few people with real world experience and personality and just a few token POC. Obviously its easier to find people willing to give up 3 months of their lives and live in a tv studio with live feeds from a pool of 20 something fame chasers but its a big country and you only need 16 people. You can do better.

Ultimately the show's had the same production and casting crew for like a decade so if there's systematic problems that's where they are.

Savahontas
Jun 13, 2005

I say..
Yea buddy!
Rolling like a big shot,
Chevy tuned up like a Nascar pitstop


There are plenty of 20 something fame chasers who aren't white and from Texas A&M. I can't think of another explanation other than laziness. Or white supremacy.

I hope Tyler gets HOH which is a thing I never thought I'd say.

Either he goes Dani and it gets interesting or he goes Day/Kevin and people have to finally shut the gently caress up about him being a mastermind.

Savahontas fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Sep 14, 2020

Bucswabe
May 2, 2009


STAC Goat posted:

Yeah, I think the real solution is to just copy from BB Canada and gently caress with the HGs a ton. Make BB a character and do lots of fan voted elements that aren't just majority favoring powers. Keep them on their toes and don't let them fall into their bubble of "the house" mentality.

Although there's definitely fundamental problems with the casting focusing so heavily on young, white mactors and so few people with real world experience and personality and just a few token POC. Obviously its easier to find people willing to give up 3 months of their lives and live in a tv studio with live feeds from a pool of 20 something fame chasers but its a big country and you only need 16 people. You can do better.

Ultimately the show's had the same production and casting crew for like a decade so if there's systematic problems that's where they are.

Yeah I think the biggest thing is just making sure that there are no "token" characters, and that every quality is well represented. Have 5-6 white people, and make 4 of them gay/30-49 y.o./over-weight/nerdy. The game as it is now makes it way too easy for the in-group to immediately ostracize everyone who doesn't fit in and pick them off one by one as those very people do whatever they can to be liked by the majority.

As for the game itself, make competitions less skewed towards young/slim/athletic. I think there should be an HOH where EVERY question is the like the normal tie-breaking question. Have a baking contest, or make the players write and perform in a play. Reward unconventional talents, and maybe even freshen up a very well used format.

Bucswabe fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Sep 14, 2020

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Yeah as much as the athletic comps are more fun if you want a more even game you'd probably need a lot more mental and puzzle comps. Survivor does a pretty good job with that I think. It doesn't matter how bad rear end your tribe is if they can't solve a puzzle. Or just get weird. BB's always been weird. Lean into it and away from the "BIG GAME CHANGING TWIST" and just to the "lots of weird poo poo" thing.

But it really is about the cast makeup. And its not all race. Its age, life experience, culture, just what you're doing with your life. A bunch of people in the house have spent the last two weeks talking about how much they miss Kaysar because he could actually hold normal, adult conversations about something other than game. So many of the young BB HGs are just kids with nothing going on or just talking about their social media influencing careers. Bayleigh's not white but there's a reason she's twice been drawn to the "cool kid" group and away from the "outcasts". Day too. She's a reality tv star. BB needs less reality tv stars and social media influencers and more well rounded people who are less likely to be sucked into the group mentality and less scared of making a big move to win even if it risks taking them off tv.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Sep 15, 2020

Ironic Twist
Aug 3, 2008

I'm bokeh, you're bokeh


The problem is that the type of people who we'd want to see in the BB house at this point are people who would never enter the BB house in a million years. There's a self-selection element that's always been in play where "well-adjusted people" and "people willing to live in a house full of cameras and microphones for ninety days" is a Venn Diagram with circles that very rarely intersect.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



But like, I think the reality is if they tried harder they could do better to find 16 of those people a year in a country of billions. As said though they just have lazy habits with the same handful of casting communities, and in recent cases just personal friends of production.

Suddenly Susan
Oct 21, 2003



This would have been the perfect year to increase the prize to a million. Keep that going forward and you get a slightly bigger pool of possible houseguests. Even MTV can do a million for The Challenge.

mancalamania
Oct 23, 2008


Fixing the casting and making the comps less physical are two of the easiest things to do to make the show better, but I still think The Twist Era really broke this show (and sort of Survivor too). When you tinker with the game mechanics so much you erode the players' trust in the rules of the show which makes them want to stick together in big blobby alliance to try to ride the wave of whatever the show throws at them.

The twists this season haven't even been that bad (the Safety Suite was actually mechanically interesting!) but it's going to take years of scaling back twists to actually change the metagame. You see it a little bit explicitly (everyone saying they're only voting Kaysar out because Janelle will inevitably come back in the Battleback), but the damage is still there even if it's not spoken about. If you want to turn on your alliance in one of these shows you have to be able to strategize together a longterm plan, and you can't do that if your constantly worried about new unpredictable secret powers (even if your imagination may be worse than anything the show actually throws at you). It also doesn't help that you have no recent players to model your strategic game after because essentially every successful player in this modern era has followed the same safe metagame to avoid these twist landmines.

I had sort of hoped Jackson would break this trend by showing you can turn on your alliance and still win the game, but the lesson the players seem to have learned from that (if any) is "the only viable way to turn against your alliance is to win every competition in the second half of the game."

All that said, while this season is definitely awful, it's hard to blame production *too* hard this time just because they had such bad luck with those HoHs. Janelle, Kaysar, and Day coming in narrow second places for HoH three weeks in a row was a catastrophe, and any one of those three HoHs going another way could have very well changed the course of the season. If Janelle had won that third week HoH and got out one of Cody or Nicole then, for all we know, this may have turned out to be one of the best seasons ever.

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.



Suddenly Susan posted:

This would have been the perfect year to increase the prize to a million. Keep that going forward and you get a slightly bigger pool of possible houseguests. Even MTV can do a million for The Challenge.

It is kind of weird that the show where you have to abandon your home, job, and loved ones to live under constant surveillance for up to 90 days has half the prize of the show where you spend two weeks traveling around the world with a partner of your choosing. The big prize should definitely be $1 million.

Also, I wonder if they should guarantee the full stipend for everyone who makes the show, not just the ones who make it to jury. We've seen so many seasons lately where the entire goal for a bunch of players is to survive until jury, which leads to a lot of passive gameplay. But if that financial consideration was removed, I wonder if we'd see some bolder moves in the early game. It wouldn't solve the "influencers trying to stay on TV to build their brand" problem, but I think it might help shake things up and curb some of the floater tendencies and might make the show a more attractive opportunity for people with actual lives and jobs.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


returning players get paid a downside when doing new seasons of reality shows. across the board.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Wrote this stuff down hours again. More stuff might have happened since. Dunno. Don't care. Tired.

Nicole’s pushing Cody HARD to keep ian. She argues that Tyler’s a bigger threat and harder to control. Cody in turn says he’s in too comfortable a spot to vote out Tyler and risk that. Cody says he respects Nicole wanting to keep Ian but its personal. Nicole insists its better for game and that Tyler will gun for her and Dani soon. Cody very plainly doesn’t care. Cody says if she has to vote for Ian to do it but Nicole says Dani will be furious at her. She’s worried that even if she does vote Ian out someone will throw a hinky vote to frame her. They’d never do that.

Nicole: My game is getting blown up. When I don’t vote for Ian, I am going to look so bad not only out there but in here. He is my best friend. If I can do that, I can cut anyone's throat.

Ian: I would really hope I would have your vote to stay.
Christmas: Yes. Of course.

Apparently they got booze last night. So it seems like these mysterious feed shut downs are just so they can party and not let us see what lovely things they do and say.

Ian once again talks about walking out and quitting if he “gets twisted out.” I’m losing a poo poo ton of respect for Mr. Two POVs.

David, Day, and Kevin plotting how to “flip the vote” to keep Tyler. This is incredibly embarrassing. I’m cringing.
https://twitter.com/BB_Pissed/statu...626282307145728

Kevin asks Ian what happened when he was all gung ho about the alliance and then “did a 180”? Ian says the Wall Yeller freaked him out but he was probably on the right track and this might be proving that. They both agree its sketchy that Memphis didn’t go up. Kevin says how sketchy it was that everyone promised him their votes like it was one big alliance trying to keep Tyler. Ian agrees it has him worried. Ian says if he goes Kevin will know something’s up. Yeah, I mean, its only Week 6. No one was predicting this poo poo in Week 1 or anything. Ian says he thinks he has Nicole, Day, and Kevin’s votes but doesn’t think he’ll have Dani’s tiebreaker. Kevin says Ian only went up because of extreme situations but Ian says clearly Enzo and Memphis are higher up than him. Ian says he’s starting to get worried he’s the target. Kevin says he’d be surprised by that. Kevin asks who Ian would work with if he stayed and if he’d stick with Nicole. Ian says he’s friends with Nicole but if he’s getting played that will be a problem and he’ll have to realign with the people who keep him.
https://twitter.com/girlsmeg/status/1305670031305449472

Cody: I think a lot of people let this poo poo get to their head too much.
Enzo: He (Tyler) is talking about if he gets evicted, he ain’t going to jury.
Cody: That pisses me off.
Dani: He has said that, Ian said it.

Lets see if Cody and Enzo like the idea of Jury if their times finally come. A LOT of this cast finished top 3.

Nicole: I'm going to look like a monster, aren’t I?
Enzo: No.
Dani: We all are.
Enzo: The thing is this, why did Da'Vonne use it?
Nicole: That's why I'm the most mad at her. But I get it. Whatever. She said she has no reason to use it then used it.

I really don’t think this whole “its Day’s fault we betrayed Ian” narrative is gonna work. Then again America.

Enzo mentions that he felt like Day thought she was “being bullied” and Nicole takes offense but the feeds are in hardcore defense mode right now so we don’t see the answer. Obviously its how transparently the entire alliance told Day if she used it to save her friend she’d make herself a target. But I doubt they see that as threats even though the strategized it as a threat.

Dani: She doesn’t trust us and also he is her #1.
Cody: I'm going to ask her "if you felt that you had us, why did you feel the need to use him?".
Dani: She doesn’t trust you.
Cody: I'm going to ask her when I win HoH.
YOU WERE LYING!

Day joins Ian and Kevin but they leave to let Ian rock on the hammock since he’s had a hard day.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Sigh Lets see what they’ve been up to…

Yep, that’s the direction its going.
Dani: Is it just me or do you feel like Da'Vonne is slowly trying to pit us against each other?
Tyler: Yeah. 1000%.
Dani: It's really annoying to me now.

Ian’s campaigning on the whole “I’m gonna quit and leave” thing telling Nicole that if he leaves Jury then she won’t have an advocate in there. I’m really understanding this friendship more and more each day.

David told Enzo that “they” screwed up and put Ian on the block so now “we” can vote him out and weaken “them.”

Look, at least Dani’s somewhat self aware.
https://twitter.com/NoahArbz/status...903147467051009

Memphis and Christmas discussed proposing a F3 to Enzo. Enzo’s definitely finishing 3rd again.

For some reason Danielle now wants Tyler out and was campaigning to Memphis, but Memphis wasn’t budging. Danielle won’t do anything with the security of the alliance. Daniele, Nicole, Day, Kevin, David could save Ian but that will never happen because Dani and Nicole want to save Ian less than they want to not stick out their necks.

Nicole’s also still running around campaigning/covering her image/whining that she wants to give Ian a pity vote but only if it keeps him or is completely safe in not keeping him. She’s now thinking she’ll vote out Ian but as long as Day, Kevin, and David vote to keep him she’ll just lie and claim David’s vote.

I think Day is next week’s target again. Everyone’s real mad at her coming up with all kinds of nonsense of why she’s the villain because she didn’t trust their lies and manipulations. They thought she’d be a passive pawn once Bayleigh was gone but her using the POV even though they didn’t want her to proves she’s actually a sentient human being so that makes her an rear end in a top hat and villain and target. Kevin and David might Eeyore and Magoo their ways respectively to another week.

Enzo did propose voting out Tyler to Cody on the grounds that he knows the Committee exists and he doesn’t like being the extra wheel in that so weakening it makes sense to him. Cody just shot that down as not important and that they’d be the next targets and Enzo went with it.

That’s enough. I need time away from them before Thursday. Its gonna be the same stuff. Ian’s going home. He’s throwing a temper tantrum about Jury. Nicole’s throwing a tantrum about being exposed as a snake. Dani’s throwing a tantrum about her bad HOH. Cody’s throwing a tantrum about Dani and Nicole trying to play safe. Everyone’s throwing a tantrum about Day. No one really wants to win HOH again. Rinse repeat.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


if day wins hoh (yeah right lol) i'll probably be sucked back in

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



If Day wins HOH I honestly wouldn't be shocked if she put up David.

More realistically I could definitely see Christmas/Memphis noms. Which would accomplish nothing except help the core more.

MAYBE she takes a shot at Cody or Tyler. But I have my doubts. She wont touch Dani, Nicole, or Enzo. I don't think she'll do Cody either. But MAYBE Tyler/Christmas.

But I think the most likely thing is that she throws HOH and then gets surprised/betrayed for like the 4th time this season.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


i mean if shes stupid enough to not realize she's in danger when her friends keep getting nominated and evicted every cycle she deserves to lose. seriously, this week only AFTER TWISTS AND VETO, is the very first time a white guy has sat in the nomination chair. if she hasn't figured it out already, she's never going to figure it out.

JOHN CENA fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Sep 15, 2020

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Day’s perpetual (internal) problem is her ego. One time she figured out that there were twins so now she’s convinced she has great reads, clocks everything, and reads everyone. It makes her really susceptible to overconfidence because she’s getting played even to the point where she buys into excuses and new spins.

And it doesn’t help that she strategize a with Kevin. That’s a lot of bad reads and unearned confidence.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


kevin sounds like the most self sabotaging player the game has seen since brian hart

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012

SO EMBARRASSING



I was going to say that Kevin's playing better than Ian, but they both only have one other person that would use the veto on them and they're both oblivious and hapless.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Ian's playing badly but like his is at least just trusting the wrong person. If you accept the premise that Nicole is a trustworthy ally then you assume that if her bestie was HOH and was targeting you she'd know and tell you. Or if the alliance she started with you was fake she'd tell you. Ian's game mostly comes down to getting screwed by Nicole. And that's based on some kind of real friendship outside the house which makes it tough for us to read how much he should be questioning it and how much Nicole might just really be a scumbag.

Kevin's defense would be that he's left so far out of the loop he never has actionable information to form a good read. But even with the information he's had he's always so far from reality that its disorientating. He also is pretty clearly driven by petty stuff like being mad Kaysar and Janelle wanted him out W1 and didn't trust him. He let his sore feelings about that shape how he perceived them and turned them into the villains at the center of every one of his theories. Its a wonder he's not still blaming stuff on Kaysar. Ian at least at one point mostly know what was going on, even if he decided to just float along with it.

Savahontas
Jun 13, 2005

I say..
Yea buddy!
Rolling like a big shot,
Chevy tuned up like a Nascar pitstop


I mean isn't trusting the wrong person and LITERALLY having one ally basically the definition of playing badly? I don't think Ian's game is defensible here.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I don't think I was defending it so much as analyzing it. I think Ian's played badly and deserves to go. I also think he's being an entitled diva and I've lost respect for him threatening to quit the game and complaining about twists. But I do on some level get how he got here game wise. And I guess I'm sympathetic to the fact that he's trusting in a real world friendship that's betrayed him.

But that doesn't change the fact that I think Ian should have got off his rear end the first few weeks of the game, opened doors to people like Janelle, Kaysar, and Nicole A who were knocking, and make an effort to keep Kaysar when he realized he was right and could be useful. Or Janelle and Nicole if we are to believe what he says that he was onto the alliance in Week 2.

I don't know if Ian's played a better or worse game than Kevin. That's a very subjective case and we still haven't seen how Kevin's game ends. But like I get why Ian thought he was safe in his best friend's best friend's HOH and I don't get why Kevin thinks David is secretly plotting to twist the vote against the house target Tyler and to Ian who he believes in his the controlling 4 alliance with the HOH who put him up.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Sep 16, 2020

Savahontas
Jun 13, 2005

I say..
Yea buddy!
Rolling like a big shot,
Chevy tuned up like a Nascar pitstop


That's all very fair points. So much for pre-gaming eh Ian?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



The funny thing is I don't know if they did "pregame". Like there's two things in play this season. There's actual pregame deals we know exist like Tyler/David or Tyler/Christmas/Josh/Kaycee or the heavily suspected Derrick/Dan organized Cody/Memphis and Cody/Nicole stuff. And then there's "Janelle and Kaysar are old friends and haven't talked in years but naturally connect" or "Day and Bay don't really know each other but they're 2 of only a handful of AA women BB alumni and Day was with Swaggy when he heard about Bay's pregnancy so there's a bond there" or "Nicole A and David were on the same season, went through some of the same poo poo, have stayed in contact, and have each other's backs."

Its not super clear which of these Nicole/Ian is. For Ian it sounds like the latter. Like they've actually been friends for years and he trusts and cares about her. When the feeds started we saw them meet and say "yeah, I think we should work together" vs like Cody/Tyler who seemed to just be working together without a word. Nicole hasn't played like that though as its been obvious she's using him the whole time. And that I think makes it weird and sketchy but also makes it hard to know how much Ian should have questioned Nicole and how much she's just a really lovely friend.

But again, none of that changes that Ian had opportunities pre-jury to build more relationships or address the dynamics of the house and he chose to go all in with Nicole. And this is what it got him. Nicole not campaigning to save him, but rather just to save face and protect her image by casting a useless vote but ONLY if its useless.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Sep 16, 2020

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



The last state of the vote I saw was that Day and Kevin are onto that Nicole, Enzo, Cody, Memphis, and Christmas wanting to keep Tyler but they think Dani wants him gone but also that David is playing them and wants him to stay. So they’re gonna try and convince David and Nicole to follow through and vote him out to get a 4-4 vote to force Dani’s hand.

There was booze. And another wall yeller. So more no feeds. Is anyone mad at this stage?

Also this…
https://twitter.com/UnfilteredFeeds...087475094458368

When you might have a problem.
https://twitter.com/AdamAndEvel/sta...088544377745413

When feeds come back there’s drama. Ian had some kind of argument with Dani and that seems to have set stuff off.
https://twitter.com/powerofcheeto2/...130370195337216

Ian’s telling Cody and Nicole that people are gonna call him a bad player. Cody says that’s stupid and the people who say that are just losers in their basements who only watch the tv episodes and have no idea what is happening. Ian agrees that anyone who says he’s a bad player is just jealous and says he just keeps getting paranoid. Nicole pulls Cody aside. Someone asks Ian if everything is ok. Ian says it is. “People are just drinking.”

Nicole’s pissed and thinks Cody was making Ian feel bad. Nicole tells Cody that they formed 2 4s with Dani, one with Enzo and one with Ian. Ian is her #1 side ally and Enzo is his #1. She says if Enzo was up Cody wouldn’t vote him out and would “have empathy” for him and would want to keep him, but Cody can’t see her position. Cody says she can’t compare the two… he doesn’t have a reason. You just can’t. Which I think is actually him proving he doesn’t have empathy. Nicole cries because she realizes that Dani effectively chose Cody over Nicole by choosing Ian over Enzo.

Dani’s complaining to Tyler about Ian telling her its her fault. Tyler says “this is not real life.” Dani basically says that’s nonsense and they’re all real people with real emotions and relationships. “When people say this is game and not real life that’s silly to me.” Tyler says he used to love this game but now he hates it. Dani agrees. Dani says Ian has a “childlike innocence” and he uses it. Dani says this week is insane “especially with Nicole” and America hates her and wants them to vote out Tyler. She says if this doesn’t prove to him she’s loyal what will? Dani’s drunk.
https://twitter.com/powerofcheeto2/...128819074592769

Kevin has a good read! David still wants Ian out and says he’s part of the core four but Kevin says everything that’s happening is because Ian just realized he’s a side. He tells David that Ian is panicking and Tyler is chill so its clear Tyler’s got the numbers and is with the alliance and Ian isn’t. David thinks Tyler just doesn’t know how to campaign because he’s never had to. Kevin says look at each week and who scrambled and who chilled. He brings up when David was on the block with Nicole A and he told Nicole he had the votes. Kevin says you know from the way people are talking to you. Kevin says there’s probably a bunch of different overlapping alliances between the rest of the house. He says when Ian went up it created problems between the overlapping alliances. They both agree some combo of Cody, Dani, and Nicole need to go on the block.

Kevin: For a dude who wanted to self evict because he did not want to be stuck in jury hell. Then he finds himself in a situation where he’s about to be stuck in jury hell and he’s like I’m chilling?

Nicole cries to Christmas about Cody being a dick and having no empathy for her position (and I guess Ian’s). Nicole says Cody said “Ian went crazy” but Nicole says he’s just upset because he thought people had his back and Cody would be upset if he was in that position. Nicole says Cody was making Ian feel bad so she had to pull him aside. Christmas says he’s immature. Tyler joins and Nicole says Ian has a right to be upset because he trusted people.

Cody tells Enzo that he feels bad for Ian… but its not his fault. Its Dani’s fault for playing badly and getting close to Day. Cody has no responsibility for allying with everyone and then betraying them.

Christmas apologizes to Ian for “being short” with him. Apparently everyone was in this.

Oh, what’s that, Taylor?
https://twitter.com/powerofcheeto2/...150505698263041

Cody tells Dani about Nicole’s epiphany about the Enzo/Ian Cody/Dani thing. Cody and Dani say they don’t understand i but also basically say Enzo is Core Four and that’s the real alliance in the house… for reasons. Dani says she’s full Core Four and its great that no one associates Enzo with her and was surprised he didn’t go up. She says if she wasn’t he’d be up and would be getting voted out instead of Ian. Then Dani and Cody complain that the Core Four aren’t on the show and they only get asked about the Committee. They’re gonna be so mad when they find out Memphis was running the game. Dani says there’s something about Ian and Cody says she cares about him. Dani says she could never hurt Cody the way she’s hurting Ian. Uh oh, drunk Dani is crushing too hard. Cody says he doesn’t feel bad for Nicole because its just a game. He does feel bad that Kevin and David are going to be here longer than Ian though because “he’s a better player and person.” Then he says Dani’s in this situation because she trusted Day too much and wouldn’t put her on the block. Cody’s charming.

Day slept through everything but says “they’ll mend it, they always do.” She’s not wrong.

Tyler tells Cody he has no idea how he got out of his trouble and is not being voted out. Me neither. At least we both know it wasn’t really anything Tyler did. Shame his stans don’t. Tyler says Nicole is making the mistake he did and trying to convince everyone they’re her #1 and then they’re mad at her in Jury. Its funny because Nicole really isn’t doing that. Its basically just Cody, Dani, and Ian for Nicole. But Cody? He’s definitely doing it.

Ian says that its not 100 days of Big Brother, its years of psychological damage. David says the game goes against human decency and everything you’re taught.
https://twitter.com/UnfilteredFeeds...152979788181504

Savahontas
Jun 13, 2005

I say..
Yea buddy!
Rolling like a big shot,
Chevy tuned up like a Nascar pitstop


So am I correct that Ian's just sort of bouncing between crying and whining when what he should be doing is pressing Nicole on the fact that she's playing an embarrassingly passive game? All the pieces should be there for him. Enzo to Cody to Dani shouldn't be a hard read. Plus Dani has made it pretty clear she nominated Ian because everyone else in the house was untouchable to her which should be red flags for the POC and Ian himself. And Nicole should see this as a preview of what F8 will look like.

Baffling.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



He's kind of been campaigning. Like he definitely hasn't been passive, but yeah its manifested more as whining and anger from what I've seen. But I guess its the basic New School problem. Everyone's assuring him that he's fine. They're just lying. He suspects they might be but what do you do about that? You can't just call them a liar. He has been talking to the other side and campaigning. It sounds such a conversation with David last night is what set him off.

And I think Nicole did see this and its long term implications last night with that thing with Cody. She had a kind of epiphany while scolding him about not being empathetic to Ian/Nicole that the fact Ian was up there at all instead of Enzo and that Dani/Cody were fighting with Ian was basically a sign of her position.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I assume Dani will be gone before Nicole. But losing Ian definitely hurts her and she probably should have pushed for Enzo to go up.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 16, 2020

Savahontas
Jun 13, 2005

I say..
Yea buddy!
Rolling like a big shot,
Chevy tuned up like a Nascar pitstop


I do think that this move was maybe then smart for Dani. If there's only room for one pretty blonde snake then axeing Ian certainly has to endear her to the Jersey tools.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Ian campaign to Kevin and Kevin said he wants to keep him but he doesn’t have the votes. He says that Tyler’s not campaigning because he has the numbers and people have been campaigning on his behalf, and warns Ian that the people he’s closest to are playing him and Dani’s either in on it or being duped.

Ian of course tells this to Nicole who gets really angry that Kevin told the complete truth. She tells Cody who gets so much angrier at how “stupid and clueless” Kevin is just like all those other stupid terrible players who figured him out. They want to call Kevin out… about him telling the truth. But Nicole realizes that might be stupid because… you know… its true. They agree its all the Wall Yeller’s fault.

Everyone’s mad at Kevin now for figuring things out in Week 6. He’s a troublemaker and needs to go. And of course they all know because Ian sold him out even though Kevin might be the only person sorta kinda trying to keep him or wise him up. BB All Stars.

Enzo tells Dani about all of it, that Kevin basically explained the game to Ian, and that Enzo had to just play dumb and lie and say he’d keep Ian. \Ian’s basically angry at Kevin and David over all this stuff they’re saying to him and is promising to target them. Enzo basically wants to keep Ian because he’s just gonna target the other side anyway but they’re still gonna vote him out. Enzo and Dani find the whole situation hilarious.

Dani: Its so true, its all true!

Memphis told Dani he’s just gonna tell Ian he’s voting him out. What a novel idea.

Ian: Here’s the reality of the situation. If I stay, there are 2 people who have really pissed me off over the past 3-4 days. I offered David safety, he has continued to kick the tire. And if I stay, I put his rear end up. And he'll loving go. Or Kevin.

Nicole says she wants to tell Ian the truth. Dani says she can’t because they’re in an alliance with him and he’ll tell everyone. Nicole is moving towards not caring because “its obvious that meant nothing” and they’re in alliances with everyone in the house besides David and Kevin anyway.

Nicole: Why blindside him? He is going to hate us more than anyone.
Dani: I also don’t want him thinking this was the plan all along.

Meanwhile Ian’s projecting all his anger on Kevin and David because they’re telling Ian the truth and Ian’s once again threatening to quit if he gets voted out and says he’ll demand to review his contract.

https://twitter.com/maximusmom13/st...300713794904064

All Stars is just the worst loving season.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Dani thinks its hosed up that Kevin, David, and Day think that they’re all conspiring against them and don’t even give them the decency of running their theory by them. Which is such a braindead take that I’m going to repeat it but in a slightly rephrased way so we can all fully process it. Kevin, David, and Day believe that Ian is the target and all his allies are conspiring to blindside him because they’re allied together. This is 100% true. Dani’s mad because they’re not coming to her and there other conspirators and saying “we think you’re conspirators” so that they can then say “no we’re not” and they should believe them because they should trust them because they’re lying. Wait, no… that’s a mess. There has to be a way to describe this that doesn’t sound like deranged narcissistic lunacy. Unless…

Cody’s also trying to convince Dani to use her power but she doesn’t want to.

Nicole: Kevin went to Ian and told him that me and Cody are playing him. I have no idea where he got that from.
Tyler: He is making poo poo up.
Nicole: And you are too comfortable so he knows that we are in on this plan and whatever.
We’re just super obvious with our conspiracy or whatever.

Tyler’s “campaigning” is literally him telling people “Don’t be a clown, keep Ty around.” This whole thing is a joke. He tells Nicole that if its a 5-3 vote he wants to stand up and hug David and loudly thank him for keeping him so as to confuse Ian about who voted him out. This is gonna be the bitterest jury in BB history. Nicole doesn’t actually think David, Kevin, and Day will vote him out though and expects it to be an 8-0 vote.

Nicole: If they flip and vote to keep you, they are taking a huge shot at me and a huge shot at Dani.
I feel like I’ve suffered a stroke.

Nicole tells Enzo and Christmas that the other side is trying to flip the vote specifically to screw Nicole over. Specifically. Its about loving Nicole. And since they’re 100% telling the truth that the house is betraying and blindsiding Ian Nicole wants to cut this off and have Enzo and Christmas admit their votes to Ian so Nicole and Cody can just lie and say they’re going with the house. Enzo and Christmas kinda agree to this because they haven’t actually promised Ian their votes and were planning not to blindside him anyway. Nicole says this isn’t about jury management, its about not losing her friendship with Ian. That’s why she’s conspiring to lie to him about why he’s going out which he’ll learn the truth of when he gets out. Christmas finds the whole idea of having to manage jury votes “arrogant” anyway. Enzo just wants the conversation to be over.

Nicole: I am trying to not look like a monster. If Kevin didn’t say anything to Ian this morning, I would have been like this is fine. The fact that he is telling him makes us look so bad.
Yes, its people accurately describing your actions that makes you look bad. Not your actions.

Oh, ok. I get it now.
Nicole: Also I don’t want Kevin to get the satisfaction of "I told you that they were playing you.”

They’re really gonna show Kevin by confirming he was right.

Meanwhile Ian’s gone full Trump and started calling them "Crazy Kev and Tire-Kickin' Dave”.

Dani tells Kevin that if Ian goes the week’s a disaster for her.
Kevin: And that wasn't your intent?
Dani: Are you serious, Kevin?
Kevin: If people are close to you why would they do opposite?

gently caress, we’re at a place where Kevin is the Kaysar.

Memphis tells Ian he’s voting him out because he thinks he’s a better player than Tyler and a bigger threat to him and one of the few people in the house smarter than himself. Ian says he respects that. Gee, that was easy. Afterwards ian says that’s bad for him. Ian should recognize that Memphis ain’t just flying rogue in this house.

Christmas is mad at Dani because Nicole told her something Christmas told Dani in confidence… or something. Its all incomprehensible at this stage.

Ian tells Cody and Nicole that Memphis is voting him. “I think my game is over.” Cody tells him to relax and its just one vote. Ian doesn’t want to go home “over someone else’s blunder.” Yeah, its not because you hosed up your game its because someone else messed up the boot order. Ian says Christmas will vote with Memphis. Cody again tells him to relax. Cody’s not aware the blindside is slipping away and is gonna be mad when he finds out.

Ian: Let me ask you this, as of right now, do you think I have the votes?
Nicole: I think you can get four votes.
Ian: So I don't have them.
Nicole: I don't know.

Savahontas
Jun 13, 2005

I say..
Yea buddy!
Rolling like a big shot,
Chevy tuned up like a Nascar pitstop


Yikes yikes yikes. I will say at least this week isn't boring. And being trapped in a house with narcissists is honestly what they all deserve so!

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Ian knows he’s dead but still is clueless as to why. He thinks Nicole and Cody have his back and Dani just hosed up putting him up as a pawn. He’s bitter and nasty and is still getting played. He’s also continuing to insist he won’t do press or jury or whatever.
https://twitter.com/TheBigBroTea/st...380975979470848

At this stage Ian’s just completely lost the reservation. He’s not even campaigning against Tyler, he’s campaigning against David, Kevin, and Day. I guess that’s been the strategy in the house so he thinks it might work but he needs their votes and he’s actively telling everyone he’s targeting them and blames them. This is basically Nicole A blaming Janelle again.

What is this world where Kevin is all woke?
David: There's a house majority, so how do we disrupt that?
Kevin: Do what they don't want.
David: Do, win HOH and put two of them up.
Kevin: I just don't want to play into someone else's plans.

Ian’s basically giving up and just planning how to best insult Kevin and David in his eviction speech. Why? Because he’s decided that what's really happening is that Kevin and David are leading a charge to flip the votes and what he’s really mad about is “inferior” players beating him. He tells Dani that he rather be played by her and Nicole/Cody than beat by Kevin/David. Seems about on case with this crew/BB/America. And once again the real assholes are gonna get away with it. If it were a 5-3 vote Ian would be convinced the 3 votes were Cody, Nicole, and maybe Day.
https://twitter.com/Tooms_BB/status/1306396338649587712

They’re having the half way party tonight. More booze, that seems smart. We won’t see anything because feeds have been down like 5 hours a day the last couple of weeks and they’re doing everything they can to protect Ian/Tyler/whoever especially when the “I’m not going to Jury” stuff starts.

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