Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Mauser posted:

I redid the rear wheel position as tight as possible against the chain and haven't had this problem again. I pulled on the wheel with one hand, bracing the bike with my foot and then gave the bolt a crank with the wrench in the free hand to tighten, which seemed to work. Is there an easier way to do this?

Depending on your dropouts, you could get a pair of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Chain-Tension-Adjuster/dp/B001GPJY1O?th=1
So you can only worry about pushing the axle up against the top track end.

Sometimes these are sold singly, as most of the tension is on the drive side, and it's trivial to align the wheel once you have the right side locked in.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Tug nuts will change your life.

E: y'all single speed folks, be aware of eccentricity in your chain ring. I see lots of destroyed bottom brackets from people who like their chain tight enough to play a note.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Dec 14, 2021

tylertfb
Mar 3, 2004

Time.Space.Transmat.

bicievino posted:

1) Polish, don't paint.

2) The correct way to tension a chain is to alternate adjusting the nuts on either side of the wheel. This gives you the most control over both centering and final chain tension. Start with a finger between the seat tube and tire, torque down the DS nut, leaving NDS loose. Check chain tension. If too tight, push the front of the wheel (near the bb) towards the DS chainstay, the torque down the NDS nut. If too loose, push towards the NDS stay. How far to push it is based on how much you want to adjust the tension by. Loosen the DS nut, and in a properly aligned and stiff frame, the wheel will center itself and adjust tension the way you wanted. Re-torque the DS nut, re-check tension, and continue fine-tuning.
In terms of deciding how tight is tight enough: you want it loose enough that there is no preload on the chain links (too tight will wear out your chain, bb, and hub bearings, as well as costing you a shocking amount of watts). Total deflection of about a centimeter is enough (although to be clear I judge it by feel, not measurement).
Having your chain come off while applying backpressure implies not only an issue with the chain being too loose, but also a chainline alignment issue. Worth checking that.

This is 100% the correct way to do it. Listen to bicievino.

bicievino
Feb 5, 2015

kimbo305 posted:

Depending on your dropouts, you could get a pair of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Chain-Tension-Adjuster/dp/B001GPJY1O?th=1
So you can only worry about pushing the axle up against the top track end.

Sometimes these are sold singly, as most of the tension is on the drive side, and it's trivial to align the wheel once you have the right side locked in.

Don't use these to set the tension, use them to prevent wheel-slip under effort.
That's why they're sold singly, because only the drive side will slip under an effort.

The reason they aren't great for setting tension is that you can still end up with a chain that is *too tight* while using them, and if you've got 'em dialed in like that it's annoying to adjust it back to the correct looseness.

bicievino fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Dec 14, 2021

eSporks
Jun 10, 2011

Long time single speeder, and I disagree with a lot of biciveno is saying... I know you ride track, but I just don't agree.

The descriptions of correct tension are good and sound. Chain tugs absolutely work to adjust tension though, yea you can go too tight, but don't?

Alternating back and forth is bad. Doing so will mean your wheel is shifting in the dropouts while tight meaning that paint and/or metal is going to get scratched leading to potential wheel slip in the future.

By using the lever method I described, everything can be adjusted and aligned while loose, then tightened in place. You avoid causing the wheel to slip and scratching the dropouts.

This has been my experience with both fixed gear, and BMX.

Also, if your wheel is not auto centering when tightening the drive side, your dropouts are bent or misaligned. Bent dropouts will always cause a wheel to slip because it wants to settle back in to it's natural state. You might be able to make it work, but it's not ideal.

tylertfb
Mar 3, 2004

Time.Space.Transmat.

eSporks posted:

wheel is shifting in the dropouts while tight meaning that paint and/or metal is going to get scratched leading to potential wheel slip in the future.


That is a good point. Every single-speed bike I own (track bikes, basically) has removable stainless steel dropout liners, so I'm not really worried about scratching paint/metal here. I guess on a painted frame, or one with softer metal there, I'd do something different.

eSporks
Jun 10, 2011

Yea, I used to sand off paint on BMX dropouts that were problematic. Same as you'd do with a set of handlebars that have already slipped once.

Mauser
Dec 16, 2003

How did I even get here, son?!
Thanks for the advice, polishing the component and lever method sound like the way forward. The dropouts are straight and I'll go measure the chain alignment just to be sure, but edit: hopefully that'll be fine

Mauser fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 14, 2021

bicievino
Feb 5, 2015

eSporks posted:

Long time single speeder, and I disagree with a lot of biciveno is saying... I know you ride track, but I just don't agree.

The descriptions of correct tension are good and sound. Chain tugs absolutely work to adjust tension though, yea you can go too tight, but don't?

Alternating back and forth is bad. Doing so will mean your wheel is shifting in the dropouts while tight meaning that paint and/or metal is going to get scratched leading to potential wheel slip in the future.

By using the lever method I described, everything can be adjusted and aligned while loose, then tightened in place. You avoid causing the wheel to slip and scratching the dropouts.

This has been my experience with both fixed gear, and BMX.

Also, if your wheel is not auto centering when tightening the drive side, your dropouts are bent or misaligned. Bent dropouts will always cause a wheel to slip because it wants to settle back in to it's natural state. You might be able to make it work, but it's not ideal.

Every bike I've ever used has enough potential deflection in the chainstays to move the hub on one side while keeping one side fixed without bending the dropouts. I'm talking about a few millimeters of deflection.

I've never used painted track ends, so not sure about how I'd change my approach with them.
I *do* however frequently run in to hubs that will walk back as you're tightening them, increasing the tension inadvertently. Yeah, typically an issue on cheaper hubs, but sometimes that's just what ya got.

Using a lever or wedge between the tire and seat tube means potentially crimping or damaging the seat tube. Maybe not an issue on a steel frame, but on anything else... I wouldn't.

If your method is working for you, then great! With a well-made frame and hub all this is easy enough that explanations are barely necessary, imo. I still think the root cause here is chainline being wrong, not an issue with chain tension.

Mauser
Dec 16, 2003

How did I even get here, son?!
Just double checked and chain is aligned. My first attempt at putting the wheel on that led to the chain coming off was almost certainly because it was way too loose.

I used a pry bar with some old tire strip to protect the seat stay bridge and got it where I think it's good and tight, but not too tight. It's steel frame and I don't think the pressure needed to get it in position was anywhere near doing potential damage to it, but I could be wrong.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb

eSporks posted:

2) I like to use the handle of hammer, pedal wrench, etc. Stick it in between the tire and seatstay bridge then use it as a lever to push the wheel back.

This has to be a BMX thing based on the two people in this thread pointing it out.

Mauser
Dec 16, 2003

How did I even get here, son?!
It certainly would not have worked on my road bike because there is no way to fit the handle of anything in that space

eSporks
Jun 10, 2011

Salt Fish posted:

This has to be a BMX thing based on the two people in this thread pointing it out.
It is admittedly where I first learned it. I've seen other people do it the shop too. I'm not sure what the resistance is against it, you don't need a lot of force to be effect, I do suppose it would be risky on carbon, but I've never worked with a carbon SS personally. It works great because you can really fine tune the tension easily, and often times the lever will stay in place making it hands free.
Its an absolute treat on low end fixies with painted and misaligned dropouts too.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

I dropped my bike in my apartment hallway this morning and snapped the tip off of my Magura HS22 front brake lever.



Is the best solution going to be replacing the whole lever assembly, or can I find a replacement lever by itself? If I have to replace the whole assembly, what's a good vendor for it, and what is a good brake bleeding kit?

SimonSays
Aug 4, 2006

Simon is the monkey's name

Safety Dance posted:

I dropped my bike in my apartment hallway this morning and snapped the tip off of my Magura HS22 front brake lever.



Is the best solution going to be replacing the whole lever assembly, or can I find a replacement lever by itself? If I have to replace the whole assembly, what's a good vendor for it, and what is a good brake bleeding kit?

Magura stuff is... Special. My first thought would be to write Magura or check their manuals to see if there are individual repair parts listed. You'll need a Magura-specific bleed kit too.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



I believe you want part number 4055184014165. Looks like it uses a pin.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

SimonSays posted:

Magura stuff is... Special. My first thought would be to write Magura or check their manuals to see if there are individual repair parts listed. You'll need a Magura-specific bleed kit too.


Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:

I believe you want part number 4055184014165. Looks like it uses a pin.

Thanks, I was worried I wouldn't be able to buy it piecemeal when google results didn't turn up anything promising. I'll see if my LBS can source the part for me, and how much they'll want to swap it out / do the bleeding too.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Do you grab that part of the lever? If not, I'd probably just superglue it back on.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Safety Dance posted:

Thanks, I was worried I wouldn't be able to buy it piecemeal when google results didn't turn up anything promising. I'll see if my LBS can source the part for me, and how much they'll want to swap it out / do the bleeding too.

Why would you need to bleed it? It’s just knocking the pin partway out, removing the broken lever blade, lining up the new one, and knocking the pin back in.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

Yep this is a pretty quick and easy one, no shop required.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:

Why would you need to bleed it? It’s just knocking the pin partway out, removing the broken lever blade, lining up the new one, and knocking the pin back in.

I mean, if I can't get just the lever and have to get the whole assembly. (On second thought, you're right. If I have to get the whole assembly, I can just pull the lever off of it and replace it that way. Duh)

kimbo305 posted:

Do you grab that part of the lever? If not, I'd probably just superglue it back on.

OK, good point. I'm pretty sure I put the broken part in one of my panniers. I'll try to find it tonight.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

Dammit, quote is not edit. You'd think I'd be better at forums by now.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb
Replacing a brake cable on a vintage schwinn, I have mountain bike brake cable on hand and it has the barrel style ends. The brake levers have a slotted swivel type drum designed to entrap a pear-shape cable end. I figured out I could just flip the swivel upside down and use the barrel end cable. Is this dangerous? Anyone else done this before? It seems to work pretty good, but also I'm aware that if it slips I'm probably getting hit by a car.

eSporks
Jun 10, 2011

Don't know about the specific brake, but I put these tektro levers on my touring bike specifically for the reason to work with any cable, and even a tied knot in a pinch. I've never had an issue with a barrel popping out.

Man_of_Teflon
Aug 15, 2003

What causes older indexed shifting spacing to be off to the point where it seems like the spacing between the index points is wider than the spacing of the gears on a cassette?

I have worked on a zillion old bikes at the local coop and I also fix up old donated bikes for refugees in my basement. Within the last two weeks I have encountered this specific problem with two bikes, one 8 speed and one 7 speed, both with SRAM gripshift shifters. 7 speed in particular doesn't seem to really have any possible variation in gear spacing.

In each case I swapped some parts around to see if it made a difference but all I have handy is other gripshift shifters and old metal derailleurs... each time the problem seemed to remain exactly the same. Is the is just worn parts in general, or are there some weird cassettes with the gears actually closer together trying to drive me insane??! No wobbly pulley wheels, no super gummed up shifter cables, hanger and dropouts seem fine... not sure what else it could be.

It's frustrating because all the other old bikes I've worked on shift fine when adjusted properly, which is quite easy to do.

norp
Jan 20, 2004

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil
I've broken yet another front brake cable on my fixie and need some help

I really cheaped out last time with a bar end shifter last time with an $8 chineseium lever and I think this has contributed to me riding home brakeless so often.

My question is that with something like this https://www.bikeinn.com/bike/sram-aero-500-pair-red-brake-lever-set/136003532/p

Why does it go into the front/back lever detail? Do SRAM TT groupsets have weird brake cabling systems? I thought brake cables were basically all the same across the board. (Note - the brake I'm using is a dual pivot tektro caliper)

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



norp posted:

I've broken yet another front brake cable on my fixie and need some help

I really cheaped out last time with a bar end shifter last time with an $8 chineseium lever and I think this has contributed to me riding home brakeless so often.

My question is that with something like this https://www.bikeinn.com/bike/sram-aero-500-pair-red-brake-lever-set/136003532/p

Why does it go into the front/back lever detail? Do SRAM TT groupsets have weird brake cabling systems? I thought brake cables were basically all the same across the board. (Note - the brake I'm using is a dual pivot tektro caliper)

SRAM’s site says the BL-500-Aero-A1 is reversible. There’s no manual on that page but the BL-990 has a manual, and the only difference appears to be the BL-990 is carbon while the 550 is alloy. Nothing mentioned about left/right requirement.

Since the bikeinn site also mentions which shifter controls which derailleur I’m thinking it’s just an FYI so people don’t order the wrong part and then they have to deal with a return.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

norp posted:

Why does it go into the front/back lever detail? Do SRAM TT groupsets have weird brake cabling systems? I thought brake cables were basically all the same across the board. (Note - the brake I'm using is a dual pivot tektro caliper)

If there's a difference, I'm guessing it's just where the brake cable housing plugs in. Not directly under but off to the side to help with aero routing.

norp
Jan 20, 2004

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil
I assume most go straight down the inside of the bar, my bars have internal routing and this was true even with the cheap lovely one
I'm not worried so much about them being reversible (although a bonus for a spare part) but don't want to be stung by some weird incompatibility. I'm fully prepared to have yet another left brake lever sit in the parts bin unused.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Man_of_Teflon posted:

What causes older indexed shifting spacing to be off to the point where it seems like the spacing between the index points is wider than the spacing of the gears on a cassette?
You probably checked some of these already:

  • cable not clamped correctly at derailleur. If the cable is routed different from this, it will move further with each shift.

  • 1:1 instead of 1:2 SRAM shifter (I might be wrong, but I think the numbered shifters like 3.0 and 4.0 are not Shimano compatible and the ones with letters like mrx are compatible)
  • Bent derailleur and/or hanger will also give inconsistent indexing along the range.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Dec 21, 2021

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

norp posted:

I assume most go straight down the inside of the bar, my bars have internal routing and this was true even with the cheap lovely one
I'm not worried so much about them being reversible (although a bonus for a spare part) but don't want to be stung by some weird incompatibility. I'm fully prepared to have yet another left brake lever sit in the parts bin unused.

I can only think of Campy having different brakes front to back, and even there, I can't imagine the designed cable pull is different.

Mauser
Dec 16, 2003

How did I even get here, son?!
Thinking about buying a cheap old bike on vacation. €30 for this:



Does that fork look messed up to anyone else or is it just the angle?

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

Eat a dick unicycle boy!
Looks like it's just steered to the left a little bit

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

That fork does look crashed. The toe overlap looks about the same as when people put their fork backwards.

SimonSays
Aug 4, 2006

Simon is the monkey's name

Mauser posted:

Thinking about buying a cheap old bike on vacation. €30 for this:



Does that fork look messed up to anyone else or is it just the angle?

That thing 100% had a super nasty head-on collision with something immovable.

Mauser
Dec 16, 2003

How did I even get here, son?!
Merci. That's too bad because it would have been perfect for what I need except for that one small detail

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

It's probably still fine for that price.

Mauser
Dec 16, 2003

How did I even get here, son?!
Nah, we have a junk bike here for me already, it's just too small for me and not very fun.

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

Eat a dick unicycle boy!
I'm looking to buy a new chain

Are their any odd traps that I could fall into.

It's got 2 front chainrings , and 7 on the back

As I understand it I get a 6 or 7 or 8 speed chain?

The issue is thickness of the chain?

Ty in advance

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jestery posted:

I'm looking to buy a new chain

Are their any odd traps that I could fall into.

It's got 2 front chainrings , and 7 on the back

As I understand it I get a 6 or 7 or 8 speed chain?

The issue is thickness of the chain?

Ty in advance

6/7/8 chains are cross compatible. Just make sure you get a chain that is long enough for how many links your current chain is. You’d need to cut the chain down to be the same length as your current chain, presuming it’s the right size.

Buy a chain with a quick link vs. a chain pin. Much easier to live with.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply