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bicievino
Feb 5, 2015

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Bear in mind that it's just a mathematical fact that you're going to see a much larger proportion of riders who are going faster than you than the ones going a similar speed. This is doubly true on climbs as the speed differential is much higher.

mods this man is personally attacking me

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
In case anyone is interested, to go into the maths of it a bit:

Let's say you're going up a climb that takes you an hour, and there's a constant stream of other riders starting the climb with varying speeds.

Consider someone going very slightly faster than you - say, they do it in 59 minutes. If they start a moment behind you then they'll overtake you. If they start a minute behind you they'll overtake you at the summit. If they start more than that behind you, then you'll never see them. So in that hour, you see 1/60th of the hourly rate of those riders.

Now consider someone going a lot faster than you - say, they do it in 30 minutes. Now, they'll overtake you if they start anything up to half an hour after you instead of just a minute. This means that you see a full 50% of the riders who start that hour who go at that speed, 30 times the proportion of the riders at a similar speed.

Something similar is true for riders who are slower than you as well. If someone takes, say, 1h20 to go up the climb then you'll catch all the riders who started at most 20 minutes before you, meaning you see 1/3rd of an hour's worth of those riders as you go up.

In general, the proportion you'll see of a given pace is related to | tyours - ttheirs |. What does this look like?

Let's assume that rider speed is normally distributed, like so:



If you're a lot faster than average (a full SD away, so faster than 84% of people), most people you see will be substantially slower than the average.



If you're a little slower than average (faster than about a third of people), you'll think the most typical speed is nearly as fast as the fast rider above!



And if you're bog standard average you'll see that most people are either a lot faster than you or a lot slower than you, despite there actually being more than 2/3 of riders between those peaks.

MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 26, 2021

Vando
Oct 26, 2007

stoats about

Partycat posted:

It might just be the rides I'm signing up for as well. Mostly the frustration has been with the tour de zwift, but I wandered on to the Alpe and committed myself to it before I realized how long I was going to be there spinning along at 3 mph, with pretty much the same results.

I'll try and mind the W/kg next time to see how that looks. It sure feels like anyone out there can breeze right by me when I'm on an incline, and I find it rather discouraging. Trying to bust rear end to keep up with whatever position I'm in or pod I'm with is the motivator and it's just gone in those cases.

The Tour mountain stages were last week so you should be ok now, and chances are if you're the kind of person who can motor along at speed on the flats a whole bunch of tiny babies with helium-filled bones will be flying past you on any decent incline, so it's hard to 'compete' especially in group rides. The real marker on a climb is how fast you can run it compared to your last effort.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



The standard ride for this stage ends on the NYC KOM which is great fun if your a tiny baby like me.

Aphex-
Jan 29, 2006

Dinosaur Gum

How did you get a POV of me when pedalling.

Partycat
Oct 25, 2004

Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:

The standard ride for this stage ends on the NYC KOM which is great fun if your a tiny baby like me.

Yeah that was alright. I set the camera to POV with my iPad in my face on a gooseneck and kinda get into the ride and keeping up with the other people nearby. The climbs just feel so slow and monotonous that I notice the soreness from old worn bike shorts or incorrectly tightened shoes. I need to work on my comfort when in position for an hour plus and that should improve it.

I played around with trying to get my W/kg up on inclines with NYC which was a lot easier with the short ones than longer climbs, seemed to go pretty well until I'd gassed out later in the ride.

Thanks for the info on how it works all.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
Anyone have zwift workout plans they particularly like? I mostly have been racing and I’m thinking about mixing it up.

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm
Hello indoor bikers, I am happy to report that I have joined your ranks. After some fiddling, I got everything to communicate and have a few rides in and it's fun! Currently on the Zwift free trial and will probably roll through several other app's free trials to see what I like best.

Since I am using an Apple TV, I think I have to use some sort of bridging device to connect the power, control, cadence, and HRM. I have been using my phone with the companion app and it was a little shaky on the initial connections, seemed to work ok once I got going. I am not a big fan of needing to use my phone for this, wondering if there is another way.

Currently I have:
- Wahoo kickr core
- Wahoo tickr fit HRM
communicates with
-Android phone Zwift companion app
communicates with
- Apple TV 4k
- HDMI to computer monitor

Is there a device I can buy that will fill the bridge function my phone is currently doing? I'm finding references to this CABLE (Connect ANT+ to BLE) device. Or would a used iPhone/iPad work just as well? I don't want to use my primary phone because it's one more thing I have to remember to charge and it seems like it's a big draw on the battery. If I must have a bridge device, I'd rather it be a cheap/sacrificial device which I can leave plugged in in the pain cave so I don't even have to think about it.

mexecan
Jul 10, 2006

spf3million posted:

Since I am using an Apple TV, I think I have to use some sort of bridging device to connect the power, control, cadence, and HRM. I have been using my phone with the companion app and it was a little shaky on the initial connections, seemed to work ok once I got going. I am not a big fan of needing to use my phone for this, wondering if there is another way.

Is there a device I can buy that will fill the bridge function my phone is currently doing?

I just switched to pretty much the identical setup this week. AppleTV, Wahoo HRM, Kickr Core.

I didn’t need to use my phone to bridge the power, cadence or HRM sensors to connect to the AppleTV. Have you tried it without?

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe

spf3million posted:


Is there a device I can buy that will fill the bridge function my phone is currently doing?

I've got a cheap rear end kindle fire that I side loaded the companion app to. Works just fine. Share your profile so we can friend up!

As the above poster says, any device that supports bluetooth should be able to talk to the sensors. I do like having the tablet on my handlebars though.

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm

mexecan posted:

I just switched to pretty much the identical setup this week. AppleTV, Wahoo HRM, Kickr Core.

I didn’t need to use my phone to bridge the power, cadence or HRM sensors to connect to the AppleTV. Have you tried it without?
Oh dang, it does work. Not sure how I missed it before, this is great thanks!

LRADIKAL posted:

Share your profile so we can friend up!
Does a straight link to my profile do the trick?

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
Yeah! It opens straight into the companion app. Added!
Bonus, we're in similar performance ranges.

Hey, I've got a question. Am I giving thumbs up to people? I'm using the companion app and it has a button that'll audibly say "ride on". The interface will show thumbs on the rider list on the right, but I'm not sure the two are connected.

Also a quick tip, to stop a ride from the companion app you need to long press the orange stop button, a tap won't do.

LRADIKAL fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 31, 2021

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm

LRADIKAL posted:

Yeah! It opens straight into the companion app. Added!
Bonus, we're in similar performance ranges.

Hey, I've got a question. Am I giving thumbs up to people? I'm using the companion app and it has a button that'll audibly say "ride on". The interface will show thumbs on the rider list on the right, but I'm not sure the two are connected.

Also a quick tip, to stop a ride from the companion app you need to long press the orange stop button, a tap won't do.
I got a few ride ons from you, seems like it's working.

Good tip on the orange stop button. I was wondering why it wasn't stopping when I tapped it.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
I mean when on an actual ride. I know it works outside the game.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007

wacky cycling inflatable
tube man

spf3million posted:

Hello indoor bikers, I am happy to report that I have joined your ranks. After some fiddling, I got everything to communicate and have a few rides in and it's fun! Currently on the Zwift free trial and will probably roll through several other app's free trials to see what I like best.

Since I am using an Apple TV, I think I have to use some sort of bridging device to connect the power, control, cadence, and HRM. I have been using my phone with the companion app and it was a little shaky on the initial connections, seemed to work ok once I got going. I am not a big fan of needing to use my phone for this, wondering if there is another way.

Currently I have:
- Wahoo kickr core
- Wahoo tickr fit HRM
communicates with
-Android phone Zwift companion app
communicates with
- Apple TV 4k
- HDMI to computer monitor

Is there a device I can buy that will fill the bridge function my phone is currently doing? I'm finding references to this CABLE (Connect ANT+ to BLE) device. Or would a used iPhone/iPad work just as well? I don't want to use my primary phone because it's one more thing I have to remember to charge and it seems like it's a big draw on the battery. If I must have a bridge device, I'd rather it be a cheap/sacrificial device which I can leave plugged in in the pain cave so I don't even have to think about it.

You don't have to use a bridging device because the KICKR Core does power/cadence/control on a single BT channel and the HRM takes up the remaining channel. Even if you had a separate power meter, you can replace the KICKR Core's own power measurement with the power meter through its "power match" feature. Open the Wahoo app, click on the KICKR Core, turn on "Control w/ ANT+ Power Meter" and enter the ANT+ ID.

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm
Good deal thanks, worked like a charm yesterday.

I did a 20 FTP test yesterday and ended up with 246w average for the 20 minute test = 234w FTP for a 3.1 w/kg.

Compared to an 8 minute FTP test last May where I averaged 231w = 208w FTP. I weighed 5 lbs more last May resulting in 2.7 w/kg.

This seems like too big of a jump considering I barely rode at all for 3 months last fall. Very different test conditions so I'm planning on repeating in a few months. The 8 min test was outside on a different bike with power meter pedals. The 20 min test was using the power meter on the kickr core, possibly in ERG mode? Or does it automatically switch out of ERG when running a test.

Either way, this indoor biking is way better than I was imagining. It's almost kind of fun. Definitely great being able to get home from work, throw on bibs and shoes, grab some water and ride without worrying about the time of day, weather, getting geared up for the right temp, deciding on a distance, choosing a route, etc. Not to mention safer. I could see myself riding almost exclusively in doors except for weekends when I'm getting out for nice multi hour rides.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
Zwift defaults to ERG mode for the FTP test (all training?) I ran the 45 minute FTP test which closely matched a recent standard ride where I had a good 20 minute effort in the middle.

Your equipment might have a surprisingly large variance in detected power, and 8 minutes is a very different test than 20. How does an outdoor test compensate for wind resistance?

Question for the pros: I feel like I'm just now getting strong enough to really push out of the saddle at around 600 watts. What kind of power are you generally pushing while off the seat? Any recommendations on techniques/best times to do so, etc?

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



LRADIKAL posted:

Zwift defaults to ERG mode for the FTP test (all training?) I ran the 45 minute FTP test which closely matched a recent standard ride where I had a good 20 minute effort in the middle.

Your equipment might have a surprisingly large variance in detected power, and 8 minutes is a very different test than 20. How does an outdoor test compensate for wind resistance?

Question for the pros: I feel like I'm just now getting strong enough to really push out of the saddle at around 600 watts. What kind of power are you generally pushing while off the seat? Any recommendations on techniques/best times to do so, etc?

I can’t hit as much inside as I can outside, simply because I can’t yank the bike around side to side. On the trainer I’m usually topping out around 900W. I’m betting a rocker plate may help to get a bit of that side to side motion.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007

wacky cycling inflatable
tube man

LRADIKAL posted:

Zwift defaults to ERG mode for the FTP test (all training?) I ran the 45 minute FTP test which closely matched a recent standard ride where I had a good 20 minute effort in the middle.

Your equipment might have a surprisingly large variance in detected power, and 8 minutes is a very different test than 20. How does an outdoor test compensate for wind resistance?

Question for the pros: I feel like I'm just now getting strong enough to really push out of the saddle at around 600 watts. What kind of power are you generally pushing while off the seat? Any recommendations on techniques/best times to do so, etc?


The 20min max interval is self-paced. It flips from ERG mode to incline mode.

He's using presumably the same power meter in both tests and you realize wind has gently caress-all to do with any of this, right?

Good Dog
Oct 16, 2008

Who threw this cat at me?
Clapping Larry

LRADIKAL posted:

Zwift defaults to ERG mode for the FTP test (all training?) I ran the 45 minute FTP test which closely matched a recent standard ride where I had a good 20 minute effort in the middle.

Your equipment might have a surprisingly large variance in detected power, and 8 minutes is a very different test than 20. How does an outdoor test compensate for wind resistance?

Question for the pros: I feel like I'm just now getting strong enough to really push out of the saddle at around 600 watts. What kind of power are you generally pushing while off the seat? Any recommendations on techniques/best times to do so, etc?

Zwift does not use ERG mode during the 20 minute testing portion of the FTP test. If it locked you in to a set power output you'd never be able to make any gains. During the 20 minute test it sets a standard resistance level and keeps it that way (ie does not change resistance with in-game % grade).

I would say you get better results the longer you test, taking 90% of your max 8-min power vs 95% of your max 20min power should give similar results but I would trust the 20 minute test more because ultimately you're trying to estimate 1 hour power. An outdoor test will require a power meter, spf3million said they were using a pedal based power meter. Outdoor testing otherwise will be tough, you can get a basic estimation with a very steep hill as this will minimize wind and aerodynamic effects but at that point you're better off using segment time as a measuring stick for your current ability as opposed to using a hill to estimate power and FTP.

Sprinting indoors feels weird and I generally don't train for sprinting because thats not what I do and I think its needlessly hard on equipment, but I can hit about 1000w indoors and 1200w outdoors. Your aluminum front wheel is probably stiffer than a block of wood so it might allow for more force generation.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007

wacky cycling inflatable
tube man

Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:

I can’t hit as much inside as I can outside, simply because I can’t yank the bike around side to side. On the trainer I’m usually topping out around 900W. I’m betting a rocker plate may help to get a bit of that side to side motion.


Almost definitely not. When you sprint outdoors, your bike leans the opposite direction due to small countersteering inputs. This doesn’t apply to a rocker plate. If you mash down on your right pedal, the bike will lean right. You have to consciously throw the bike in the other direction with your arms to mimic outdoor sprinting.

I think Holden Comeau has over 200lbs of dumbbells and plates chained to the legs on his trainer. Some people buy the top platform of a rocker, anchor the trainer to it, then stick weights on the platform. I have 120lbs in sandbags on my trainer’s legs, myself.

mikemelbrooks
Jun 11, 2012

One tough badass
Can I get a recommendation for Bluetooth earphones that can handle Discord I find my current ones battery barely last an hour? annoyingly they start disconnecting when they show 20% charge.

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm
Is there a way to upload the Zwift ride report as a photo to the Strava activity? I see other people doing this on Strava.

Currently using apple tv without the phone companion app, wondering if the only way is to take a snapshot/photo of the report via the companion app or if there is some other way.

bicievino
Feb 5, 2015

mikemelbrooks posted:

Can I get a recommendation for Bluetooth earphones that can handle Discord I find my current ones battery barely last an hour? annoyingly they start disconnecting when they show 20% charge.

I use the jabra "elite active" ones. They last fine, and have good noise cancelling for my insanely loud trainer.

Sarthek
Dec 30, 2002

This may be a silly question, but I thought I'd post it here before subjecting myself to a range of off-topic tirades on the Zwift forums: is there a way to cap the number of other riders Zwift renders on a route?

Huge maps like Watopia are all fine and well, but if you go for a ride in smaller map like New York right now it's crazy crowded. You're just overtaking a conveyor belt of slower riders and, if you're (the low end of) mid-pack like me, getting overtaken by another conveyor belt of faster riders at the same time. This seems to result in my rider freaking out and making quite violent zig-zags across the route to avoid people whenever I get to a steep hill where there are a bunch of people stopped or moving super slowly.

Overall, it's not the end of the world (and I'll freely admit that I'm one of the new influx of lockdown riders contributing to the problem), but if there's an easy config file change or something to cap how many other riders I see at one time then it'd be nice to know about.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



If you’re on a PC you can use ZwiftPrefs to ride in a non-featured world, which will be massively less populated. Not exactly the solution to your problem but somewhat of a workaround.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
You can also make a meetup with "meetup view only" selected, invite one person who doesn't show up, and you have any world/route all to yourself at any time.

mikemelbrooks
Jun 11, 2012

One tough badass

Sarthek posted:

This may be a silly question, but I thought I'd post it here before subjecting myself to a range of off-topic tirades on the Zwift forums: is there a way to cap the number of other riders Zwift renders on a route?

Huge maps like Watopia are all fine and well, but if you go for a ride in smaller map like New York right now it's crazy crowded. You're just overtaking a conveyor belt of slower riders and, if you're (the low end of) mid-pack like me, getting overtaken by another conveyor belt of faster riders at the same time. This seems to result in my rider freaking out and making quite violent zig-zags across the route to avoid people whenever I get to a steep hill where there are a bunch of people stopped or moving super slowly.

Overall, it's not the end of the world (and I'll freely admit that I'm one of the new influx of lockdown riders contributing to the problem), but if there's an easy config file change or something to cap how many other riders I see at one time then it'd be nice to know about.

I believe you can also just turn off or disconnect your wifi/internets for the length of your ride, but you will need to reconnect to upload your ride to Zwift, Strava etc.

Partycat
Oct 25, 2004

I’ve ridden in first person camera a few times and when someone overtakes you from behind you spend a minute looking at their face from inside out.

tylertfb
Mar 3, 2004

Time.Space.Transmat.
Don't tell the UCI but I did my final two Zwift intervals tonight in the puppy paws position...

road potato
Dec 19, 2005
Right now I am trying to decide whether or not to get a specific trainer wheel/trainer tire. I tend to ride on the trainer more than outside, so it would make sense to not totally wear through my rear tire while the front one stays mostly fine.

I'm having trouble finding a solo rear wheel for cheap. I live outside the US, and the bike shops i've stopped by all make their money on high-end, so they don't seem to have anything spare wheels at a moderate price around.


Is it worth the trouble to get a trainer wheel? Should I just buy a normal tire and not worry about it, assuming it's going to wear through twice as fast and that's ok?

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Gstu posted:

Right now I am trying to decide whether or not to get a specific trainer wheel/trainer tire. I tend to ride on the trainer more than outside, so it would make sense to not totally wear through my rear tire while the front one stays mostly fine.

I'm having trouble finding a solo rear wheel for cheap. I live outside the US, and the bike shops i've stopped by all make their money on high-end, so they don't seem to have anything spare wheels at a moderate price around.


Is it worth the trouble to get a trainer wheel? Should I just buy a normal tire and not worry about it, assuming it's going to wear through twice as fast and that's ok?

What kind of wheel

Vando
Oct 26, 2007

stoats about
Normally this is where I would convince myself I need a nice new wheelset and then the old wheelset becomes the trainer wheel.

Sarthek
Dec 30, 2002

jamal posted:

You can also make a meetup with "meetup view only" selected, invite one person who doesn't show up, and you have any world/route all to yourself at any time.

mikemelbrooks posted:

I believe you can also just turn off or disconnect your wifi/internets for the length of your ride, but you will need to reconnect to upload your ride to Zwift, Strava etc.
Yeah, I've had it get upset about my internet connection once or twice and leave me riding alone. It's alright, but seeing a few other people is nice. There's kind of a goldilocks thing going on here: company is good, but there's definitely a point where it crosses over to just plain crowded.

Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:

If you’re on a PC you can use ZwiftPrefs to ride in a non-featured world, which will be massively less populated. Not exactly the solution to your problem but somewhat of a workaround.
I guess this is the most straightforward solution then, in the absence of a hidden cap in a config file somewhere.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007

wacky cycling inflatable
tube man

mikemelbrooks posted:

Can I get a recommendation for Bluetooth earphones that can handle Discord I find my current ones battery barely last an hour? annoyingly they start disconnecting when they show 20% charge.


The latest PowerBeats have something like 15hr advertised battery life and the best sounding mic out of everything I checked out on RTINGS. I don’t love the earhook design or the fact that they aren’t truly in-ear, but I wanted something that sounded clear through heavy Discord noise suppression for my team’s ZRL races.

road potato
Dec 19, 2005

e.pilot posted:

What kind of wheel

The current wheel is a ksyirum elite, standard road bike 700x23 cm.

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Gstu posted:

The current wheel is a ksyirum elite, standard road bike 700x23 cm.

quick release or thru axle? rim or disc brake?

road potato
Dec 19, 2005

e.pilot posted:

quick release or thru axle? rim or disc brake?

Rim brake, quick release.

I now realize how non-helpful my info was, thanks for continuing the conversation.

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Gstu posted:

Rim brake, quick release.

I now realize how non-helpful my info was, thanks for continuing the conversation.

Prime wheels are absolute boat anchors (yes they really weigh 2kg) and not that great of wheels, but that doesn’t really matter on a trainer and they’re stupidly cheap. Pick up a cassette and trainer tire and you’re good to go. I used them for a couple of thousand miles on zwift before I upgraded trainers.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/prime-stagiaire-alloy-wheelset/rp-prod185011?mx01=a&mx02=a

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TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007

wacky cycling inflatable
tube man
Can we get a hell yeah for BeastPussy who went from 237W FT on zPower to 292W FT with a power meter?

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