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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator




EVOLVE's Anthony Greene has signed with WWE

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J-Ro
Jul 26, 2005

Child Of The Revolution



Chud status of EC3 aside, dude got mishandled and it's still wild to me how they get perfectly decent workers in and then just go: "welp, no idea what to do with you".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKmuGYB3Tcg

quote:

"But, the call up, there is a purpose. This is it. When it happened, first off I was on injury reserve with a concussion when I got called up to the main roster. That was odd to me, but, thereís a reason. Thereís a purpose. Letís go.

The reason was the old man demanded new toys that he got bored with even before they were handed to him.

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

DEAN OF THE LOCAL ARCADE


Remember when they broke up The Shield, their hottest act in years, because they had "nothing for them"?

Eat My Fuc
May 29, 2007

Qu'ils mangent de la baise!


1glitch0 posted:

Remember when they broke up The Shield, their hottest act in years, because they had "nothing for them"?

It was the right time for that though, there was no where else for them to go and they all got to explore different characters, except for Roman which hurt him for years but Dean and Seth did well for a long time after.

Seams
Feb 3, 2005


It's weird how Derrick Bateman kinda looked like Andy Samberg but now ECIII looks like Kurrgan.

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


Eat My Fuc posted:

It was the right time for that though, there was no where else for them to go and they all got to explore different characters, except for Roman which hurt him for years but Dean and Seth did well for a long time after.

They were the hottest babyface act in the company at the time and breaking them up just hurt all three in the long run. "There was nothing else for them" is a cop-out to excuse lazy booking.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


the wwe were trying to break up the shield for months beforehand and couldn't do it because all three guys worked together to resist it and the wwe only succeeded in breaking them up by springing it on them the night of the show when it happened, you can't say they had nowhere else to go with the gimmick it was just a continuation of the pathological need to break up tag teams

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






And then they strapped a rocket to Roman into the main event while Seth and Dean futilely feuded. Which then lead to what killed Roman - Roman got injured and rather than have him leave and come back to a huge ovation they started giving bizarre weekly Roman injury interview updates that were essentially the same as Randy Orton's early 2000s heel turn but were portrayed as entirely sincere and got everyone to sour on him as it was so blatantly Mary Sue Golden Boy booking.

And now they pretend he doesnt exist.

JT Smiley
Mar 3, 2006
Thats whats up!

Seth turning on the Shield and joining HHH's goons the night after helping the shield beat those same goons was so dumb. But at least we got that amazing Simpsons meme out of it.

Eat My Fuc
May 29, 2007

Qu'ils mangent de la baise!


OctoberCountry posted:

They were the hottest babyface act in the company at the time and breaking them up just hurt all three in the long run. "There was nothing else for them" is a cop-out to excuse lazy booking.

they beat everybody including part timer old guys no one ever beats what else could they have possibly done?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


i always thought when they were doing their initial heel run someone from the shield should have won money in the bank because it would have been a completely different dynamic for that usual storyline. this was at a time when the shield was still really really well protected and if they decided they were going to target someone, it Did Not End Well for the target, and having the threat of them decide one day to as a unit take down whoever the champion was could have been unique storytelling.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001
Probation
Can't post for 33 hours!


J-Ro posted:

Chud status of EC3 aside, dude got mishandled and it's still wild to me how they get perfectly decent workers in and then just go: "welp, no idea what to do with you".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKmuGYB3Tcg


The reason was the old man demanded new toys that he got bored with even before they were handed to him.

He's not perfectly decent he's really bad. He has a physique and cuts e-fed promos that people claimed were good when he was in TNA.

https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/st...614796317290496

Decided to check, last year on USA Smackdown did 1,911,000 viewers on July 30th.

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 1, 2020

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

DEAN OF THE LOCAL ARCADE


Eat My Fuc posted:

It was the right time for that though, there was no where else for them to go and they all got to explore different characters, except for Roman which hurt him for years but Dean and Seth did well for a long time after.

It was absolutely the wrong time to break them up. No one wanted it and it didn't make sense. They were loving huge. But after they beat Evolution for the second or third time, welp, what can you do? It was such a short-sighted decision.

You really can't think about the hottest act in the company doing anything else? I could give you a list of a billion ideas. It might be the last act WWE had that was over close to Austin and they pissed it away.

Eat My Fuc
May 29, 2007

Qu'ils mangent de la baise!


1glitch0 posted:

It was absolutely the wrong time to break them up. No one wanted it and it didn't make sense. They were loving huge. But after they beat Evolution for the second or third time, welp, what can you do? It was such a short-sighted decision.

You really can't think about the hottest act in the company doing anything else? I could give you a list of a billion ideas. It might be the last act WWE had that was over close to Austin and they pissed it away.

I would genuinely like to hear a few ideas. I guess they technically lost their feud with the Wyatt family but theyíd done so many matches at that point I donít think returning to their older feuds would have been great. They could have formed a new three man heel stable for them to feud with but who and why?

All of Deanís title runs were cool and Seth arguably peaked as a performer when he was with the Authority having those matches with Cena and Lesnar. Roman is really the only one they botched though he almost always delivered in ring despite his lame character.

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

DEAN OF THE LOCAL ARCADE


Just off the top of my head you could slowly have The Shield win the world title, the IC title, and and the tag titles. And then they forget the crowd love and get egos and where they come from and become arrogant and backstage laughing at everyone else and losing their point of view and then they slowly turn heel with a bunch of faces coming after them. That's like 2 years of booking.

But HHH has to always win, even if it was a dumb talking segment.

TV Zombie
Sep 6, 2011

MAMAMOO STAN





Dinosaur Gum

All the way this talk of whether the shield should have broken up, makes me amazed at how long New Day has been together.

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

DEAN OF THE LOCAL ARCADE


Eat My Fuc posted:

I would genuinely like to hear a few ideas. I guess they technically lost their feud with the Wyatt family but theyíd done so many matches at that point I donít think returning to their older feuds would have been great. They could have formed a new three man heel stable for them to feud with but who and why?

All of Deanís title runs were cool and Seth arguably peaked as a performer when he was with the Authority having those matches with Cena and Lesnar. Roman is really the only one they botched though he almost always delivered in ring despite his lame character.

They didn't have to do 3 man matches. They could just be pals. Just supporting each other. And like I said above eventually they become assholes and people have to take down the most dominant group on the roster.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


TV Zombie posted:

All the way this talk of whether the shield should have broken up, makes me amazed at how long New Day has been together.

they've each threatened to retire if either of them are forced to turn or split brands

The Cameo
Jan 20, 2005

Higher, baby
Get higher, baby
Get higher, baby
And don't ever come down



Even something as simple as one of them winning the world title and another winning Money in The Bank becomes instantaneously intriguing, because is this going to be the crack in the group? You could feed off of wondering if there were going to be problems for quite a lot longer, but WWE isnít about stories, itís about moments! Ignoring that moments only work because the story led you to it!

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


Eat My Fuc posted:

they beat everybody including part timer old guys no one ever beats what else could they have possibly done?

Continued beating people up like cool bad asses in good matches.

And the fact that there weren't any strong heels available for them to feud with in the aftermath of the ad-hoc Evolution reunion is another indication of lovely booking.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.





TV Zombie posted:

All the way this talk of whether the shield should have broken up, makes me amazed at how long New Day has been together.

They tried to break them up almost as often as they tried to break up the Shield, the difference is the New Day members consistently replied with "we'll retire tonight if you go through with it" instead of just "gently caress no", so even writing it in an hour away from taping doesn't work

Seams
Feb 3, 2005


I canít remember a single one of Dean Ambroseís world title runs. If you told me he never won a world title I probably wouldíve believed you.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator




Seams posted:

I canít remember a single one of Dean Ambroseís world title runs

Fans don't even know he's a champ right now, wrap it up AEWailures

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

DEAN OF THE LOCAL ARCADE


JOHN CENA posted:

i always thought when they were doing their initial heel run someone from the shield should have won money in the bank because it would have been a completely different dynamic for that usual storyline. this was at a time when the shield was still really really well protected and if they decided they were going to target someone, it Did Not End Well for the target, and having the threat of them decide one day to as a unit take down whoever the champion was could have been unique storytelling.

That's a legit fantastic idea. There are so many places you could go with that. Goddamn WWE sucks at storytelling.

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


TV Zombie posted:

All the way this talk of whether the shield should have broken up, makes me amazed at how long New Day has been together.

The fact that New Day have stuck together and continued to be a pushed, popular act for 5 years should absolutely put the nail in the coffin of any version of "Well we HAVE to break them up, there's nothing else for them to do" booking rationalizations forever

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

The New Day act has been stale as gently caress for at least 3 years now so I'd argue that they legit have "nowhere else to go." Big E going singles is the first interesting thing they've done since Kofi's title reign.

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

DEAN OF THE LOCAL ARCADE


The Cameo posted:

Even something as simple as one of them winning the world title and another winning Money in The Bank becomes instantaneously intriguing, because is this going to be the crack in the group? You could feed off of wondering if there were going to be problems for quite a lot longer, but WWE isnít about stories, itís about moments! Ignoring that moments only work because the story led you to it!

Like imagine if WWE champ Roman won a match and then started getting beaten down by a group of heels and then Ambrose runs down with the briefcase and then there is a moment where you think Ambrose is going to cash in the briefcase, but then he protects Roman against the heels and beats the crap out of the heels with the briefcase. Friendship. But there is still a look in Ambrose's eyes that he questioned it and Roman being suspicious. This is MONTHS of storyline. But gosh, we have nothing for you.

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


I'm not saying they're not stale, but let's not pretend any of them would be in a better place if Big E had turned, had a five month in a feud with Kofi, then spent the last two years cutting "You People" promos in the undercard

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?




J-Ro posted:

Chud status of EC3 aside, dude got mishandled and it's still wild to me how they get perfectly decent workers in and then just go: "welp, no idea what to do with you".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKmuGYB3Tcg
REEEC

CarlCX
Dec 14, 2003

and she walked in
looking like dynamite




Even if you wanted to keep them a group that fought other groups, the "there was no one left on the roster to fight" thing doesn't make sense to me because The Shield were, themselves, a random assemblage of dudes they just pulled out of the semi-NXT ether and convinced everyone was important, and around the time they broke up is when NXT was first really going into indie-superstar-collectathon mode. Around the time of/within a few months after the breakup the NXT roster had Pac, Sami, Finn, Owens, KENTA, The Revival, The Ascension before they became a joke, even fuckin' Baron Corbin if you wanted to be all Vince McMahon about it. It would've been the easiest thing in the world, and a way to cross-promote a still-new NXT, to have Triple H get revenge for the slaying of his old friends by bringing in an army of his shiny new superwrestler toys the same way they had with The Shield in the first place.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!


1glitch0 posted:

Like imagine if WWE champ Roman won a match and then started getting beaten down by a group of heels and then Ambrose runs down with the briefcase and then there is a moment where you think Ambrose is going to cash in the briefcase, but then he protects Roman against the heels and beats the crap out of the heels with the briefcase. Friendship. But there is still a look in Ambrose's eyes that he questioned it and Roman being suspicious. This is MONTHS of storyline. But gosh, we have nothing for you.

This is kinda/sorta what AEW with the Elite and Adam Page and it's loving gripping television. And so drat simple too!

But nope, they've got nothing for you.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






The New Day are relics, but they survive because they are faces who through sheer force of will succeed at being faces in spite of WWE failing every other face writing. But i'm always a spicy take on this as i didn't even care for Kofi's title win as it felt like an unearned gold watch run that was to replicate Daniel Bryan and worse it was Mustafa Ali's build so it just felt artificial.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

CarlCX posted:

Even if you wanted to keep them a group that fought other groups, the "there was no one left on the roster to fight" thing doesn't make sense to me because The Shield were, themselves, a random assemblage of dudes they just pulled out of the semi-NXT ether and convinced everyone was important, and around the time they broke up is when NXT was first really going into indie-superstar-collectathon mode. Around the time of/within a few months after the breakup the NXT roster had Pac, Sami, Finn, Owens, KENTA, The Revival, The Ascension before they became a joke, even fuckin' Baron Corbin if you wanted to be all Vince McMahon about it. It would've been the easiest thing in the world, and a way to cross-promote a still-new NXT, to have Triple H get revenge for the slaying of his old friends by bringing in an army of his shiny new superwrestler toys the same way they had with The Shield in the first place.

This is a good idea but for it to work WWE would have to admit that everything outside it isn't just some meaningless little league mudshow so it'd never happen.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?




There's dozens of different ways they could've lead to the SHIELD breaking up without just doing what they did, and it could've been a months long story. Someone mentioned all three SHIELD members being in the Money in the Bank at the same time, they could've worked well together but the usually unhinged Ambrose could've pulled Seth off the ladder and shrugged it off later when all three failed to get the briefcase. Triple H could've continued to gently caress with them by giving them a shot at the World Title in a Triple Threat, and Dean and Roman would've had no qualms about fighting to the death over the title opportunity because that's who they are while Seth tries to calm the down mid match and he keeps getting thrown out of the ring while those two fight, because at the end of the day Roman and Ambrose were just warriors and they'd crack open a beer after and shoot the poo poo while Rollins was just a coward trying to keep the peace. Triple H could've kept getting into Seth's head about how he's the weak link in the group while Seth keeps getting pinned in multi-man matches, ignored, and starts to become unhinged, and eventually decides to turn on them because Triple H promises him the world, while The Shield can't even promise to work together until the heel turn happens at the next year's Money in the Bank where Triple H and his goons take out everyone in the match and let Rollins grab the briefcase.

Wrestling doesn't need to have a swerve to tell a good story.

yea ok
Jul 27, 2006



how will the big dog and the architect fare with the lunatic fringe waiting in the wings with the money in the bank briefcase for a championship opportunity? will the authority use their power to cause some cracks in the shield? miztv

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.





https://twitter.com/XavierWoodsPhD/...613107661172742

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?


Here's my take: if WWE didn't completely bungle the pushes of 2/3 of The Shield after they broke them up, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The most damning thing about WWE's irrational need to break up tag teams is that they don't even know what to do with people after they break up besides "boring rivalry between ex-partners that goes on too long".

yea ok
Jul 27, 2006



Lurks With Wolves posted:

Here's my take: if WWE didn't completely bungle the pushes of 2/3 of The Shield after they broke them up, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The most damning thing about WWE's irrational need to break up tag teams is that they don't even know what to do with people after they break up besides "boring rivalry between ex-partners that goes on too long".

obsessed with one partner being 'the janetty' too

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?




Lurks With Wolves posted:

Here's my take: if WWE didn't completely bungle the pushes of 2/3 of The Shield after they broke them up, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The most damning thing about WWE's irrational need to break up tag teams is that they don't even know what to do with people after they break up besides "boring rivalry between ex-partners that goes on too long".
It's Shawn Michael's fault. They've been chasing that star since it happened and with the SHIELD, it turns out that Ambrose/Mox was actually a star, and Roman isn't a boot licker so they had two HBKs and got defaulted into pushing the Jannety.

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CarlCX
Dec 14, 2003

and she walked in
looking like dynamite




yeah, the way that basically every single even moderately successful group in WWE history has some story about how they were fighting this constant pitched battle to keep from getting broken up on a weekly basis is really distressingly indicative of why our conversations about the better ways they could do things are basically meaningless

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