|
A bunch of the time survivors get something stupid as hell and then after a length of making GBS threads things up, it'll get nerfed (Old DS, Older BT, Old OoO, the game wrecker that was original MoM etc.), so they don't get buffed so much of the time because they often get better things to start, that then get nerfed into more sane levels eventually, sometimes, gently caress keys. Also the indoors maps are bad for most killers for different reasons, loads of corners to duck around when it comes to ranged powers, goofy rear end collision for sprint powers and things like that. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jun 17, 2021 |
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
Umbreon posted:EDIT: Survivors almost never get buffed, because they get released with perks and mechanics that are fundamentally overpowered and then slowly, often very slowly, tuned down. And usually when survivors get buffed it's because a nerf to a problematic perk just makes it problematic in a different way. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:07
|
|
|
Man thinking about it though, god how did it take so long to change Object of Obsession, that poo poo with discord SWFs was just some bald faced cheating level nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
I had to expound on thisUmbreon posted:Jesus, I've lost my last 8 matches in a row, and only one of them wasn't a 4k. No matter what perks or strategies I use, if a killer wants me dead, I'm dead. I even tried decisive strike, but it's literally a "while this skill is active, become completely useless to your team for 60 seconds and pray the killer doesn't just slug you". I'm almost always the first to die, or in matches where I'm not, get instakilled by some special perk or addon that allows that. If survivors stick to gens, they would escape in most situations. A solo player has no control over escaping. Umbreon posted:Ok hold up, I refuse to believe that's true. For however much this thread complains about the game being survivor biased, there's no way that survivors are never buffed. They have to get buffed at least sometimes, right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
temple posted:A new perk (like dead hard) is complained about. lol what, people have griped about parts of Dead Hard for ages. (Again mainly that it's used for free untouchable bonus distance, instead of the concept of it having been skirting through an attack to safety) Also gently caress keys, they've busted down moris multiple times and keys have kept skating by being dumb bullshit. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:lol what, people have griped about parts of Dead Hard for ages. (Again mainly that it's used for free untouchable bonus distance, instead of the concept of it having been skirting through an attack to safety) People complain about everything. So now DH is the worst perk ever now that the previous worst perk is nerfed. Scott Jund has queued up the next gripe in survivor spawns. Which how do you fix that? Spawn survivors directly on the killer? It always something. I guess you could say legion and freddy were nerfed but they were absolutely oppressive prior. Ruin was nerfed but undying made it better. Undying was nerfed but the nerf made it save stacks (improving other totems). Strange how nerfs to killers aren't really nerfs at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:24
|
|
|
rydiafan posted:thecoolmikeshow and one_stalky_boi Oh, neat. I always enjoy the solo killer streams. If anybody wants to see the Trapper taken to an art form, check out TheEntityLeftHand. Lefty knows his trade, which is getting survivors stuck in a bear trap and then sticking them on a hook.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
temple posted:I guess you could say legion and freddy were nerfed but they were absolutely oppressive prior. Ruin was nerfed but undying made it better. Undying was nerfed but the nerf made it save stacks (improving other totems). Strange how nerfs to killers aren't really nerfs at all. Legion was real dumb at the start but the initial Freddy that got absolutely dumpstered for ages wasn't even crazy, that was purely on people bitching that new killer did a new thing and mass review bombing instead of even trying, that whole deluge happened almost immediately on his launch and the turnaround on making him the worst killer in the game for a long time was breakneck pace. Also old Ruin would still be preferable to the new one Undying included. Also again, no, people have had problems with DH forever and a lot of the griping about the perks that have gotten nerfed, were always happening in tandem. Like particularly because stacking a lot of the previous bullshit felt like such garbage to play against. A get out of jail free card on it's own can be annoying, but someone having a get out of jail free, followed by another get out of jail free, then one more was tedious as all hell and miserable. Then you had the actual standouts though, again the best example will probably always be release Mettle of Man. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:45
|
|
|
Umbreon posted:Jesus, I've lost my last 8 matches in a row, and only one of them wasn't a 4k. No matter what perks or strategies I use, if a killer wants me dead, I'm dead. I even tried decisive strike, but it's literally a "while this skill is active, become completely useless to your team for 60 seconds and pray the killer doesn't just slug you". I'm almost always the first to die, or in matches where I'm not, get instakilled by some special perk or addon that allows that. Well I mean how often do you play killer? There are plenty of people super vocal about the game being crazy killer biased, but the thing is they're drat near always people who overwhelmingly play survivor only (if not exclusively) Only by being well versed & invested in both sides can you really understand the major differences in frustrations and how easily it is for killers to be eviscerated by remotely efficient players. For all the matches where you're getting stomped (and reasonably so being new), you're not seeing all those other matches where they're getting stopped instead. Its simply more adept players than yourself. Much of the killer experience is really a vicious cycle. Most spend so much time getting pummeled by insane matchups and SWF that, when given half a chance, they end up taking it all out on solos and newbs because that's the only time they're flipping the tables and winning. That and/or because this game conditions you to come out swinging. You never know if the survivors are ten ranks above you (a common occurance due to the killer shortage) and/or they're equipped with the massive steroid boost of voice communication. Its usually too late to turn the tables around after a soft start if you're not playing for keeps, so you assume the worst. When it comes to high level gameplay thoigh... if by that you're meaninglike red ranks and streamers, youre just dealing with a self-excluding definition there. Any killer who can't hit that 70% kill rate consiatently is a killer who wouldn't hit/maintain red ranks in the first place. Its effectively the game average required for pips as a red rank killer, else youre knocked back out and not one. IE, even if you were to add a bunch of survivor+ balance changes, that only impact the # of red rank killers, not their average kill rates. Its a misleading statistic and really bad metric. Meanwhile, in the real highest level gameplay the ONLY two killer characters who are even viable in competition.... nurse and spirit. Though even streamers who seem like Gods at this game, like Otz, playing as Spirit tend to get destroy by genuine tournament squads. DBD is absolutely a survivor dominant experience, though of course there's still skill sets weighed too at every level. You're just crazy new to a game where most players measure hundreds or thousands of hours. (Oh and as far as interpreting things via bloodpoints: killer is just inherently designed to provide more bloodpoints. Originally due to how survivor items/add-ons can be retained, but now its mostly because so few people are willing to keep playing killer long enough to get good at it & bp works for incentive.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:Legion was real dumb at the start but the initial Freddy that got absolutely dumpstered for ages wasn't even crazy, that was purely on people bitching that new killer did a new thing and mass review bombing instead of even trying, that whole deluge happened almost immediately on his launch and the turnaround on making him the worst killer in the game for a long time was breakneck pace. Also old Ruin would still be preferable to the new one Undying included. Key nerfs are confirmed, so what's next?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
Have they even said what they're gonna do to keys yet. If it's actually significant and not some slap on the wrist, then that's the actual most egregious thing addressed right now.
Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:11
|
|
|
So are we not playing the same game or do we just have different memories? Nurse and spirit have both received major nerfs over the course of the game. Hillbilly being nerfed was also the price of getting a usable leatherface. Killer nerfs are almost all related tothe actual killer though instead of their perks because very few of the perks are as important as the default power, whereas all the survivors are basically identical so the nerfs have to go to their perks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:14
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:So are we not playing the same game or do we just have different memories? Nurse and spirit have both received major nerfs over the course of the game. Hillbilly being nerfed was also the price of getting a usable leatherface. Killer nerfs are almost all related tothe actual killer though instead of their perks because very few of the perks are as important as the default power, whereas all the survivors are basically identical so the nerfs have to go to their perks. People defended omega blink nurse
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:So are we not playing the same game or do we just have different memories? Nurse and spirit have both received major nerfs over the course of the game. Hillbilly being nerfed was also the price of getting a usable leatherface. Killer nerfs are almost all related to the actual killer though instead of their perks because very few of the perks are as important as the default power, whereas all the survivors are basically identical so the nerfs have to go to their perks. Wraith was also down in the dumps for a long while until more recent help given to him, Legion's still pretty far down there, Plague was basically left to being a time capsule for a long time, Michael's fun but probably more than any other killer he feels like he's still from an era of the game that hasn't been around for a while, Demo of all killers got (Mostly) nerfed this latest patch. Most nerfs to killer perks are just insult to injury for the already bad characters. Also lol at defending Billy nerfs above.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:18
|
|
|
temple posted:Hillbilly is the same, you lost the ability to hold the saw all day and his addons were insane. Nurse, how do you justify omega blink nurse? Did she lose power? Is nurse getting dunked on now? Is billy? The game is getting better but it's annoying that it took this long.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:24
|
|
|
temple posted:I had to expound on this Exactly this literally happened in my last 2 matches, both losses. Everything is a never ending cycle of "killer downs someone, people go to unhook and heal, killer downs someone else, repeat", with 1-2 gens getting done in total at best. And you feel like an absolute scumbag if you just "do gens", because all that ever leads to is someone dying on their first or second hook while the killer effortlessly chases you off of your gens anyway(and still hooks you). Even worse is when that happens to you, watching your teammates run around gens and no one goes for you after you get hooked. The game feels inherently designed to reward and encourage altruism, but heavily punishes actually doing it. temple posted:The only thing left are keys. After that, what will killers complain about? For the love of god, delete keys from the game. I have never used one, I never will. Theyre as stupid as instakill perks and addons. All they do is cut the killer's fun short, make you get less points than if you were to play out the match. I wish they were gone, killer mains complain about them constantly and use them as a scapegoat for the OP things they have available, and I hate keys just as much as they do. EvilTobaccoExec posted:Well I mean how often do you play killer? I played it once. I know you're going to stop reading here, but for anyone else who cares to know: I played Trapper, had no idea what I was doing, only ever set one trap that no one stepped on anyway, and I still got a 2K and 28k BP. I even got teabagged at the exit gate, and dropped a survivor because I got confused and couldnt find hooks. After all the poo poo I went through as a survivor, playing that badly as killer and still getting 2 kills and 28k BP felt so stupid that I never touched it again. I was garbage, I had no idea what I was doing and didn't deserve either of those kills. All I did was run at people and M1 them, and I always caught them eventually no matter how many times I guessed wrong or hosed up my mindgames or whatever else. Worse, I felt really bad for the 2 survivors I killed because they kept trying to save the people I originally hooked and getting caught(admittedly it was kind of cathartic to finally be on the giving end of those bullshit "hit people from 4 feet away through windows/palettes" hits that infuriate me so much), and they died really early on while the remaining two were basically ninjas and I couldn't find them on purpose. EvilTobaccoExec posted:For all the matches where you're getting stomped (and reasonably so being new), you're not seeing all those other matches where they're getting stopped instead. Its simply more adept players than yourself. I DO see those matches, it's just that theyre quite rare and only ever happen when matchmaking decides to give us a killer who 10 levels below the average. I've yet to ever see a survivor sided stomp on a killer who's decently matched to the survivors, save for the few times where the killer was trying out said killer for the first time or a similar situation. I know that's anecdotal at best, but to be fair, so is what you alluded to. EvilTobaccoExec posted:Meanwhile, in the real highest level gameplay the ONLY two killer characters who are even viable in competition.... nurse and spirit. Though even streamers who seem like Gods at this game, like Otz, playing as Spirit tend to get destroy by genuine tournament squads. I don't buy this. The very same Otz is like the biggest source of those huge winstreak compilations, and he does them on all sorts of killers. Hell, Otz himself even recently made a video on why Spirit is problematic. If you're only relegating things to tournament level play, that's a terrible metric because players who play at that level are completely different from 99% of the playerbase. For everyone else, especially solo players in general, killers are ridiculously strong EvilTobaccoExec posted:DBD is absolutely a survivor dominant experience, though of course there's still skill sets weighed too at every level. You're just crazy new to a game where most players measure hundreds or thousands of hours. If I'm reading your post correctly, at best you meant "DbD is a survivor dominant experience.. at tournament level play against SWF players."
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:24
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:Have they even said what they're gonna do to keys yet. If it's actually significant and not some slap on the wrist, then that's the actual most egregious thing addressed right now. All we know is that they seem to be tying keys and moris into a system you "earn" in a match.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:24
|
|
|
Umbreon posted:If I'm reading your post correctly, at best you meant "DbD is a survivor dominant experience.. at tournament level play against SWF players."
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:27
|
|
|
Just wondering - how many hours do you have in the game?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
Otz has definitely gotten drubbed on stream by Professional DBD Teams (to his credit, he isn't shy about admitting when that happens and then pointing out why he got drubbed)
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:29
|
|
|
Umbreon posted:I don't buy this. It's true, red rank games a whole lot of the time are basically a struggle to down someone before their buddies get two gens in the meantime of chase 1 a lot of games, especially if you're not a killer that can actually move.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:31
|
|
|
I enjoy playing killer a lot more right now as a terrible player, but I think it's because if/when I do terrible, everybody is happy. Survivors get their escape points and healing points and all that. When I'm bad as a survivor I know there's someone in the group going "Jesus, he got hooked AGAIN????"
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:31
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:You're arguing against a position I did not make. I think nurse is in a good place now, billy nerf might have been overboard but he was oppressive, but I also think that about literally every single survivor nerf you've been complaining about. OoO was a terrible perk that never should have been put in the game and now it's pretty good as better distortion. Same thing with d-strike actually being an anti-tunnel perk now, instead of being a purpose built bum rush the killer perk.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
Thom and the Heads posted:Just wondering - how many hours do you have in the game? I would answer, but I get the feeling you're not asking for any other reason than to go "you havent played enough, therefore your opinions are invalid" unless my hours are within several hundred of whatever yours are.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
Umbreon posted:I would answer, but I get the feeling you're not asking for any other reason than to go "you havent played enough, therefore your opinions are invalid" unless my hours are within several hundred of whatever yours are. I won't put exact hour numbers on it, because I think it can vary from person to person, but I know that for most people the game starts out feeling very killer-sided, then starts to feel balanced, then starts to feel very survivor-sided.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:35
|
|
|
temple posted:So after keys, what's next? Is the game balanced? Depends on what they do, if something stupid comes about, then it's a wait until they tone that down. If nothing else stupid happens, keys eating poo poo would set things fairly well overall, a couple of maps in particular could stand to be less huge, mainly because those very frequently end up being "Just lol if you're not Billy/Blight/Nurse" and even survivor side it sucks because it also tends to mean when you do get seen you can look forward to open spans of nothing for counterplay and mile apart gens. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:35
|
|
|
temple posted:So after keys, what's next? Is the game balanced? I think DS would be enough. Even with keys they aren't really a balance concern just getting rid of an anti-fun thing. If you could find keys in a chest but not on the bloodweb and they disappeared at the end of a match with or without use they'd probably be fine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:36
|
|
|
Also yeah, there's so many perks for both sides that are virtually never ever used, making some of the useless perks have some kind of fun or useful quirk would be nice.DeathChicken posted:Yeah, there's kind of a problem when you have perks like Surveillance, then perks like Gearhead which is "So it does what Surveillance does but you also have to hook the obsession while under the light of a full moon while Claudette is working a gen but only after she's hit 3 skill checks". The game is filled with perks like that which are dumb and overcomplicated to the point you might as well use something else It's a mix of that and "Uuuuh, I dunno people heal slower when you're nearby" because that's definitely something that happens much and is very useful, lookin square at you Coulrophobia you useless rear end perk. Or lol, stuff like Wake Up or Sole Survivor, the ever-present joke of Monstrous Shrine. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
Yeah, there's kind of a problem when you have perks like Surveillance, then perks like Gearhead which is "So it does what Surveillance does but you also have to hook the obsession while under the light of a full moon while Claudette is working a gen but only after she's hit 3 skill checks". The game is filled with perks like that which are dumb and overcomplicated to the point you might as well use something else
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
temple posted:So after keys, what's next? Is the game balanced? I think DS would be enough. I know you were joking or genuinely down on ScottJund calling out spawning as being an issue of the game design at the moment but his primary point in that video is what I actually want from the game design and balance. I don't think the game can ever actually be fully balanced, no game really can and DbD as a constantly expanding service game especially can't, but I want them to stop introducing a problem and then introducing a fix purely as new perks or new mechanics. Fix the problems that are there, not even necessarily balance ones but just bad, weird designs that shouldn't have been made, get them into a working order so that more than 10% of the perks get used and everyone at least has to dig to find something to complain about.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
I mean from what I recall, Scott's complaint was that for everyone bitching about gen rushing, the real problem is that survivors will 90% of the time spawn right on top of a gen and by the time a killer waddles over there they're already so far behind the eight ball they might as well quit. Which...yes, that *is* a problem that should be addressed
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
Also unless you have every single character P3 maxed out and every archive challenge done and every achievement in the game, worrying about pipping or depipping or your rank is pretty much the biggest waste of time you can ever inflict yourself with. Just slap people / run away from being slapped. DBD is the chillest game for not giving a gently caress about. Did I earn more than 1 bloodpoint this game? Make a little progress on a challenge? Pull off a sick axe throw or spear shot or hit a survivor from the moon with my M1 because of hilarious lag? Stop in front of a pallet so the killer hits the idiot riding my rear end in a double chase? Cool, I’m having a good time. Reading anything on their forums or Reddit or expecting your gameplay to resemble lifetime streamers is a recipe for driving yourself crazy. Mess around with stupid perks, work on your fundamentals, set little goals, play dress up. Live mas.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
I have never lost a match of DBD (any time i get at least 1 bloodpoint it is a win) except yesterday when the servers were having issues and I got no bloodpoints after a good Blight match
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
DeathChicken posted:I mean from what I recall, Scott's complaint was that for everyone bitching about gen rushing, the real problem is that survivors will 90% of the time spawn right on top of a gen and by the time a killer waddles over there they're already so far behind the eight ball they might as well quit. Which...yes, that *is* a problem that should be addressed He was saying that Lethal Pursuer is a perk added to allow you to combat, to an extent, the problem of multiple people spawning on gens. Which is a thing they do fairly regularly; introduce a mechanical problem, either through reworks or new systems, add a perk for the side that now has a problem, don't actually fix the underlying problem.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
https://v.redd.it/22vzizbrit571/DASH_1080.mp4
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:01
|
|
|
Orv posted:I know you were joking or genuinely down on ScottJund calling out spawning as being an issue of the game design at the moment but his primary point in that video is what I actually want from the game design and balance. I don't think the game can ever actually be fully balanced, no game really can and DbD as a constantly expanding service game especially can't, but I want them to stop introducing a problem and then introducing a fix purely as new perks or new mechanics. Fix the problems that are there, not even necessarily balance ones but just bad, weird designs that shouldn't have been made, get them into a working order so that more than 10% of the perks get used and everyone at least has to dig to find something to complain about. Tru and Dowsey played some matches against comp teams today to demonstrate the power (or lack there of) of wraith. Interesting stuff
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:09
|
|
|
Are you purposefully vying for the apple 2.0 slot or?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:12
|
|
|
Orv posted:Are you purposefully vying for the apple 2.0 slot or? What does that mean?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:16
|
|
|
Orv posted:Are you purposefully vying for the apple 2.0 slot or? That feels really uncalled for, nothing in his post even comes close to Apple.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
Umbreon posted:I would answer, but I get the feeling you're not asking for any other reason than to go "you havent played enough, therefore your opinions are invalid" unless my hours are within several hundred of whatever yours are. Not trying to bait you, I swear. I've only been playing the game for about a month but I found that my survivor play got WAY better once I put in some time as killer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:17
|
|