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Roth
Jul 9, 2016




I never read or watched it, Fluff changed the forum name to this because I called it Attack on Poopoo

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Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

It's closer to Pippi Longstocking than Star Wars, but don't let that get in the way of a good, new forum name.

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012



Tortured By Flan

I donít know anything about an Attack on Titan.

The moon is cool though. One day weíll be taking all that sweet nitrogen and dumping it into Venus.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Is Attack on Titan the one that's really fascist until someone told them then stopped being that

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

What about Titan AE?

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Itís vore.

Itís just vore.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012




Roth posted:

I never read or watched it, Fluff changed the forum name to this because I called it Attack on Poopoo

no but muv luv(which the author cited as inspiration) is and you should just read that instead.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird





Charles posted:

What about Titan AE?

Mods please change the subforum title to Attack on Titan AE

Eminent Domain
Sep 23, 2007





nine-gear crow posted:

Mods please change the subforum title to Attack on Titan AE

Not empty quoting

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.




nine-gear crow posted:

Mods please change the subforum title to Attack on Titan AE

Am emptyquoting.

Wait, poo poo.

Musluk
May 23, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Some Goon posted:

Am emptyquoting.

Wait, poo poo.

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

Fuck!


More fantasy, but as with anything fantasy, there's a lot of crossover.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Han Solo, ha! If I'm around, you don't need that guy.





AT-AT on Titan AE

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Sally posted:

AT-AT on Titan AE-35

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

A DAILY DOSE
OF OLD SHOOTERS


PLAY NOW MY LORD



RBA Starblade posted:

Is Attack on Titan the one that's really fascist until someone told them then stopped being that

it's a little more complicated than that

basically nobody actually knows for sure what Isayama's political views are, and it's pretty much equally easy to read the series as pro-fascism or anti-fascism depending more or less on what you're bringing into it

and then post-timeskip it introduces some really muddled Holocaust/Israel parallels that clarify basically nothing about wtf Isayama is trying to do here

there's evidence that he might be kind of a nationalist shithead, which would give credence to the pro-fascism interpretation, but nobody's actually a hundred percent sure if the twitter account at the center of that is actually him, either

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...


There's plenty of room to critique the use of imagery and ideas that belong to cultural traumas that aren't your own for the sake of your fantasy story, but aside from that, the actual text of AoT is very anti-fascist. The fascism stuff is usually rendered as some very scary and bad poo poo, except in the anime OPs, which deliberately use gaudy exaggerations of fascist aesthetics for satirical purposes (note how the first OP depicts the First Battle of Trost, except it shows the humans WINNING, which doesn't happen. All the other OPs use other poo poo parodying military march songs while having lyrics that basically amount to "you don't know why you're doing this, but just go die anyway". It's very Veerhoven Starship Troopers in that way.)
It's also worth noting that the villains who are framed in a sympathetic light Reiner, Annie, etc aren't really members of their Nazi-adjecent regime, but slave-Janissaries who have no place in the world and intense self-loathing. It's equally worth noting that while Warsaw ghetto imagery is used, it's not the only historical parallel that is drawn for the plight of the Subjects of Ymir, and it's too complicated to pigeonhole poo poo into a 1:1 allegory. Because the Wall civilization is also almost brought to its knees after two big, explosive, mushroom cloud forming attacks on their island nation (HMMMMM), that eventually leads to an international conflict revolving around a stockpile of Colossal Titan weapons (HMMMMM). I don't know how the politics of "man, the atom bomb was hosed" are read in Japan, but my understanding is that it's pretty common subtext in media, especially anime. I mean, I think the atom bomb was hosed, so I'm not sure I'd consider that a nationalist dogwhistle, but I suppose it could be to some.
Point is, AoT has consistently characterized racism, militarization, and systemic power structures as very bad things that need to be resisted. It just doesn't always use its metaphors perfectly, nor does it have a particular optimistic outlook for the future - which is fair, I suppose. But I'd honestly say that I read way more fascist poo poo into the likes of My Hero Academia than Attack on Titan, just because the latter is so loving unsubtle about how it feels.
As for the alleged Isayama Twitter thing, I'm gonna be honest and I say I don't buy it. The account in question wasn't associated with his name or business or anything, and folks seemed to just get convinced that it was him over a game of internet telephone.
I could go further into why I think the series is fundamentally anti-fascist (though falls into a few tropes that are borderline unavoidable in stories that feature superpowers), but I'll stop for now. Also, the last few arcs have been really, really good and I'm amazed at how well this series was planned out.

EDIT: The other thing the series wants you to keep in mind is that Eren is not a role model. He's not even flawed in like an Ed Elric sort of way. He is a very hosed up person and you're meant to feel for him as a broken human being, but not actually agree with him or his ideology.

Beefstew fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Aug 7, 2020

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes!
Nov 6, 2002

TB Times


I like it when they eat people.

Frankenstyle
Dec 3, 2005



It breaks away from the whole giant robot trope by using giant robots made from meat!

It's pretty groundbreaking.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird





Frankenstyle posted:

It breaks away from the whole giant robot trope by using giant robots made from meat!

It's pretty groundbreaking.

I have some bad news for you OP: Evangelion already exists.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


nine-gear crow posted:

I have some bad news for you OP: Evangelion already exists.

that is bad news lol



(j/k. eva is weird and hosed up but i've enjoyed watching it and i'm glad it exists.)

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018



Pillbug

I don't think the Titan in Attack on Titan is Titan the moon, as that would make too much sense. Instead there are giant monsters called "Titans", which are attacked.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005


Mooey Cow posted:

I don't think the Titan in Attack on Titan is Titan the moon, as that would make too much sense. Instead there are giant monsters called "Titans", which are attacked.

The Japanese title doesn't even translate to "Attack on Titan." It can translate to either "Attack of the Titans" or "The Attack Titan," the former making the most generic sense and the latter being the name of the titan that Eren transforms into.

Dr. Red Ranger
Nov 9, 2011



Nap Ghost

Mooey Cow posted:

I don't think the Titan in Attack on Titan is Titan the moon, as that would make too much sense. Instead there are giant monsters called "Titans", which are attacked.

Nearly there. https://youtu.be/aFbuSShYKpc

Roth
Jul 9, 2016




The most hosed up think about Attack on Titan is that tumblr always referred to it as SnK which is very misleading!

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005


Roth posted:

The most hosed up think about Attack on Titan is that tumblr always referred to it as SnK which is very misleading!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84u5n1BTpWQ

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"

I like the Attack on Titan opening parody vids. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDx2ceMiWnU

e:fb!!!

Dr. Red Ranger
Nov 9, 2011



Nap Ghost

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I like the Attack on Titan opening parody vids. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDx2ceMiWnU

e:fb!!!

I do too.

https://youtu.be/r0eYJjsQB8U

Roth
Jul 9, 2016





I've never seen the show, but the first OP is still one of the best OPs I've seen.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Beefstew posted:

It's also worth noting that the villains who are framed in a sympathetic light Reiner, Annie, etc aren't really members of their Nazi-adjecent regime, but slave-Janissaries who have no place in the world and intense self-loathing.

Well, later on...

We DO get a sympathetic major character who's a high ranking officer in Marley with Captain Theo Magath.

The interesting thing there isn't just that his arc focuses on him overcoming his inbuilt racism, befriending Eldians and eventually dying side by side with one of the "Devils of Paradis" to protect the children he trained, but that he gets a scene in one of his earlier appearances where he goes "The military is a bunch of morons because they're continually expanding and making more enemies, so no matter how much we win for now, we're doomed long term."

Meanwhile, the character who insists on increased military might and campaigns against the other as the only path forward turns out to be a traitor plotting against Marley the whole time.


Attack on Titan also has things like the "good guy" military leaders being emphasized as supporting a free press, even when it makes their lives more difficult, being willing to make friends with former enemies, and being responsive to the people. And as soon as they abandon that, everything goes to hell.

It's not like Attack on Titan's subtle about some of those themes either, with the character that espouses violence as an inherent good and dehumanizing others being AOK being named "Gross" and giving a speech directly to the camera before his horrible death, and how the most morally upright character, visually based on John Boyega, gives a speech about how God made people different because the world is a better place if everyone isn't the same.

As for Eren... Isayama tends to talk a lot about Breaking Bad, The Mist, a manga about a serial killer... he's clearly interested in stories where the protagonist makes wrong choices, but ones where you can totally see how they arrived at that decision, and even think you might make the same choice in the same position.

And it's also really interesting how Eren is separated from his supporters narratively.

Floch is kind of a fascist piece of poo poo, fully committed to the cause of national superiority, and spending a lot of time getting owned even as he does things so vile that you don't feel sorry for him. He murders anyone who doesn't bow down, talks lots about the Eldian Empire and how other countries deserve to be destroyed. Yeagerists are portrayed as a tragic group because the protagonists are forced to kill their own friends and countrymen, but they're bad guys, with none of the viewpoint characters endorsing their cause.

Eren, meanwhile is shown to be cool and sympathetic, even as he does horrific things. Importantly, this comes partially through Eren's hatred for what he's doing, and his admission that what he does is wrong. Even if it is an us-or-them situation, the simple math says that he should lay down and die so more innocent people will live.

But he rejects that out of love for the people closest to him, and thus knowingly becomes the worst monster in the series, equating himself to an even worse version the people who killed his mother. Unlike early Eren, he's no longer able to dehumanize his enemies, knowing that "saving his people" is mostly just murdering innocents no different from the people he saves except in that he doesn't know them as well.

Also, you know. There's the whole Dune thing going on for him, where he knows he'll do horrible things in advance while being unable to stop himself without sacrifices he can't bring himself to make. So that's also a complication.


Edit: Just going back to general thematics, two things stand out as not working with AoT as propaganda.

1) It's emphasized that "special" people aren't the only important ones. While Erwin, Mikasa, Historia, and other characters are highlighted as being exceptional by nature, other major characters like Jean, Reiner, and even Eren have scenes highlighting the opposite. Their only claim to greatness is the universal one, that they were born into the world, and that's treated as more than enough.

2) For all that Attack on Titan emphasizes heroic deaths and the necessity of sacrifice, pretty much everyone dies with regrets, often in pretty pathetic ways. Characters who are shown to be tough badasses die weeping in fear, people's last thoughts are emphasized to be wishing they'd been the coward instead, and even the guys calling for that sacrifice are often shown to be furthering their own agenda rather than acting for the goals they tell people to sacrifice for. It's not the hero martyr narrative.

chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Aug 14, 2020

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