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Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

I do wonder if the Twelve are "just" the Convocation, or if the Convocation were in turn appealing to the same powers that the Twelve represent.

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Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

I was under the impression Elidibus was mimicking the iconic vision of heroism, not that he had been the OG Hero?

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

FrozenGoldfishGod posted:

As I started doing the 'goodbye Norvrandt!' quests, I realized something that made it all the more poignant.

This is the first time the Scions of the Seventh Dawn have saved the day - and then had to leave forever. Every other place they've saved, they can go back to any time they want.

Eorzea? More powerful than ever, now that they've gotten rid of the Garleans and helped gain a buffer country as an ally.
Ishgard? Still there, doing better than ever and no longer telling everyone wandering in to gently caress off.
Doma? They've got a Great Wall that literally can't be permeated, and they've rebuilt their country and economy.
Ala Mhigo? Doing just fine, still fighting the Garleans but with the full support of the entire continent of Eorzea, they're doing great.

But once they leave Norvrandt, saved and restored, they can't ever come back. The Warrior of Light can, but the others are basically pulling a Frodo. And this is the first time in the story that's happened.

To be fair, Y'shtola does mention she intends to work on a way to cross worlds again.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Groggy nard posted:

I am concerned by how easily Graha decided to Rand Al'thor his past self but it all worked out in the end so lets not question it any further

Exarch!G'raha: "Hey Young Me you wanna fuse and become a timeless-yet-young-savior-of-nations-and-worlds?"
Young!G'raha: "Ballin."

To be fair it worked out pretty good with Ardbert too, and Ardbert may not even be the same gender or species as your WoL.

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Aug 12, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Rand Brittain posted:

I feel like Unukalhai got the Wrathion treatment, in that he was locked in a room until all the events he could have been relevant to had passed, and now G’raha has eaten his potential role in the Scions.

There is the inevitable Adventures in the Void when it comes up. Maybe we'll get Cyella as a buddy too.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Zomborgon posted:

As someone who played SMN first, it was neat to see the name "ink mage" as the logical equivalent title for a DPS arcanist class that didn't end up drawing on primal power.

In no way do I want that to be a new job but it is a neat name.

I kinda do tho.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Quite a flex for Ishikawa to go "kill my characters, will you? Well how about this?"

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Draynar posted:

We killed all the strong ones though, So only little bitches are left for us to slap around. And Zenos who is edgelord version of us. (Really getting to point where even game is acknowledging no one can actually beat us in power level and we're going to have to have like teams coming at us and we're now the raid boss)

Hydaelyn doesn't have power levels. The WoL isn't Goku.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

corgski posted:

Yeah Azem was always gendered as a woman for me as well, which threw me for a second reading other peoples speculation. I suppose ancient timeless beings don't really have genders as such, however.

Reincarnation makes gender basically fluid. Even if your WoL is a woman, Ardbert is Azem too just as much as you are, and he's definitely a man.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Power levels are canon, this is the only explanation for the end of Act 1 in Stormblood. Also the cell games Omega

What I mean is more that like, the WoL isn't just gonna tank lesser foes' attacks; some jackass with a sword is totally capable of killing the WoL if they get sloppy.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

erenoyo posted:

I mean we did kinda do that in the cutscene before the WoL trial

...point.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

hobbesmaster posted:

Emet Selch in SHB also makes a bit more sense now. He was the last ancient after we cut through the others - Elidibus was a primal and wasn’t a real person anymore. It makes the entire plot of SHB some sort of elaborate suicide by WoL.

I thought it was supposed to be WoL as an ancient, but then it’d have been a fist punch and not the hand wave.

Hell, consider how he was introduced to us. "I had earned my rest." Emet hasn't enjoyed being alive for a while now.

I'm not sure if it was a conscious plot, but I definitely feel like by the time we reached Amaurot he was basically ok with throwing the dice, even if he couldn't consciously or emotionally give up until you took the choice away from him.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Regy Rusty posted:

I think the crystal was a backup rather than his real plan. I'm pretty sure he still wanted to beat us and was genuinely surprised when we pulled out stuff he couldn't see coming like Ardbert.

BUT he certainly acknowledged the possibility that we could win

Yeah, same, I think Emet was basically in a hopeless death-or-glory mindset rather then actually wanting to lose.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Mad Wack posted:

Anyone understand why Amaurot warped to the surface outside of Eulmore for the starshower that led to the heroes gauntlet? I will accept Anime as an answer but I was wondering if there was more to it.

Probably just an illusion to reinforce the Past-Life-Triggering.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Hogama posted:

Even people who didn't have the Echo triggered said they felt a palpable sense of loss upon seeing the image of Amaurot..

I read that as implying that everybody has souls tied to Amaurot, just not necessarily the Echo?

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

There's also a lot of ambiguity about whether the soul, as in the aetheric mass of aether animating a person's body, corresponds to their consciousness, which is often described as passing on to a different realm in death. Elidibus the person is almost certainly dead and at rest, it's just the equivalent of the aetheric atoms that stored his personhood are now within the Crystal Tower. Hades was capable of summoning the actual shade of a person from the Underworld, which - given that those souls are presumably long since both fragmented and reborn - implies that the mind isn't synonymous with the aether that holds it. People use up aether all the time.

Also keep in mind the Crystal Tower uses aether. It isn't just a giant battery, aether needs to flow through the world naturally. That aether's gonna be scattered out into the world again just as say, the aether that stored Lahabrea's consciousness is now dispersed with Thordan's destruction.

That said, yeah, I'm pretty sure Elidibus was a child, originally, and just never could entirely grow up since he was a primal now.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

ImpAtom posted:

It seems like you can basically bring anything across, it just depends on if it is capable of remaining together after you do so. Living beings are a lot more complex than bread and thus are at a greater risk of dissolving. As long as you think of it as part of you then it should be able to come across.

The real question is: How does your Chocobo get across.

Yeah, like, from a cosmic standpoint the difference between a living person's body and a dead person's body is relatively small. It's the same entity, just changed a bit.

It's also worth noting that Y'shtola seems to be fairly confident she can one day develop a way to cross the Rift, and I don't see why she'd fail. One thing I appreciate is that in FF14 technology and magic advances, and advances a lot.

Its Rinaldo posted:

So correct me if I'm wrong but killing an Ascian means basically busting them up and sending them to the life stream, which is why I was concerned with Elidibus because it seemed like just sticking him in a box forever and not killing him.

Thematically, never dying and living forever seemed to be part of what made the Unsundered so awful

His aether will be spat out of the Crystal Tower sooner or later. We basically just fed his unconscious soul aether to the aetheric equivalent of a woodchipper until it couldn't hold together.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Normally killing them lets them reform in the lifestream, because we don't kill their soul. Lahabrea, Emet-Selch, and now Elidibus have had their souls so irrevocably destroyed that even if they find themselves back in the lifestream, they're basically raw materials again.

And yet a shade of Emet shows up in the trial! Suggesting, as I said, that the aether of the soul and the consciousness of the soul, the imprint memory and self leave behind, aren't really the same thing. Hell, pixies explicitly say they don't actually see aether as the same thing as the person it belonged to. An Lad is not synonymous entirely with Titania, even if they share enough to be seen as a reincarnation/echo. And Alphinaud(?) says ghosts are the living imprints of dead people's memories and consciousness, yet are presumably separate from the soul-body.

It sounds, to me, like "soul" in Hydaelyn is more like...the spirit-body for your mind, the container it's stored in on the intangible plane.

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 13, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Was it him, or was it an imprint he put in the stone?

Either way, we know that souls get recycled all the time and they're not associated with whoever originally had them. We're not Azem. We're not Ardbert. We're not the thousands of people that shared this soul.

Ascians were different in that when they died, or whatever, their soul, consciousness, and everything else stuck together and they could just pop back out.

Good question. I feel like it's more satisfying if it's actually him, though?

I mean we seem to be Azem enough to count as a degree of continuity. We identify as Azem to a degree, we grieve for Amaurot, we even seem to have some sense of responsibility and ties to Ardbert's life. We are, and we are not. Reincarnation and personhood are complicated!

But yeah, the Ascian/immortal paradigm seems to be basically "your soul-body is strong enough it doesn't need a meat suit to hold itself together anymore, which means to kill you properly you need to have your soul-body broken down." It's actually quite consistent, really - primals and even voidsent likewise seem to have this super durable, dense soul-body, which is why they can jump across meatsuits and survive physical deaths.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

ImpAtom posted:

From what I understand:

Unsundered Ascians just return to the rift (the place the WoL sends you during the fight) where they chill out until they can make or possess a new body. As long as their body is killed they will effortlessly return assuming they have an option. (See: Emet-Selch) To kill an unsundered Ascian you need to not just kill them but effectively destroy their soul because they are so powerful that is the only option. You effectively have to erase them or they will come back. Elidibus isn't trapped but actively erased (IIRC they even mention his memories not coming along for the ride) and while the aether that made up his primal form might still be in the tower it isn't him anymore.

It sounded like even Sundered Ascians can't be properly killed without rupturing their soul's crunchy shell, though. Nabriales was sundered, I think?

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

ImpAtom posted:

Again I may be misremembering but from what I can recall

The are Unsundered Ascians and then varying degrees of Sundered Ascians. Stronger ones can reconstitute themselves by possessing other's bodies while weaker ones are basically killable but are replaced by grabbing one of their shards from another star.

Lahabrea did not need to possess new bodies but chose to do so anyway which apparently made him a total loser and actively weakened him.

It also makes Emet's behavior make a lot more sense when you realize that the only other true Unsundered Ascian was Lahabrea. Can you imagine how much that must have sucked?

What happened with Lahabrea is also very similar to what happened with Elidibus. He went through bodies without changing them to his own, and therefore identities, like candy, presumably because he either felt their identities were useful or because he just didn't care. The end result was a man whose identity was falling apart, leaving nothing but a cartoon villain.

A thing I like is that Hydaelyn seems to assume both a soul and a body have an imprinted/stored identity in their memory.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Was there anything in game associating Azem with the Hydaelyn summoning crew? They objected to summoning Zodiark, but were they linked with Venat and co at all, or did they just head out to do their own thing?

It sounds more like Azem didn't really oppose either group. They wanted to presumably go off and murderhobo the Sound itself. We have apparently always been a murderhobo at heart.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

So what exactly happened in the Heroes' Gauntlet, then?

The proper summoning ritual brings people over entirely, which is what happens to the WoL and the others in the Hades trial. Botching it gets what happens to the other Scions, separating soul/mind from body, but there's still a tether.

Elidibus says he basically did a smash and grab on a bunch of heroes with their souls not even needing to be whole? Does that mean there are a bunch of people who are soul-damaged or whatever across the shards now

Sounds like he basically did flash-imprints of bits of people's souls, yeah. Presumably fixable or recoverable, but it's why none of them seem to have concrete identities beyond vague signifiers of their heroic deeds and pasts. I'm actually fairly confident we'll see the Necromancer again given how big a deal they made of her; the Thief is transparently just Locke from FF6.

It's a pretty cute reminder that the other Shards have their own heroic sagas though.

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

My take was that since Elidibus was just a primal, he wasn't the real Elidibus to begin with. He was both Zodiark's and the peoples' wish for a saviour, and ultimately, that doesn't require memories or identities at all. He was the hero, he was salvation, and nothing else mattered. I don't think it had anything to do with body hopping like Lahabrea. His original summoners are also gone, so he's powered by the mixed prayers and needs of other scattered people.


That was my take, but I heard people thinking Azem and the rest of the Twelve were Venat's thirteen other summoners. I didn't remember anything linking Azem to the rest of the summoners, and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

My running theory is that the Fourteen are tied to the same powers that the Twelve embody, since the Twelve do appear to wield concrete power in the world. After all there's seemingly a whole other galaxy or even universe beyond Hydaelyn, and the Fourteen are all tied to constellations or celestial bodies. And aether is universal, as indicated by Omega and Midgardsormr (and Ultima) all wielding it.

Hell, for all we know the whole point of Sigmascape - which they make a big deal out of it being actually a different world and not just some mythic ancient era of Hydaelyn's past being referenced like the Deltascape or Omegascape - is that the world of FF6 actually exists in the cosmos of Hydaelyn and not just "beyond the Rift."

Although, is the Rift space?

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 13, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Perfect.

Azem is definitely the dissenter. Hythlodaeus outright says it, but it's nice to confirm they didn't work with either group.

Yeah, although it doesn't sound like there was hostility at first, either. The sad thing about the Convocations is that everyone involved totally understood why everyone was doing what they were doing.

I could totally imagine that Azem absolutely refused to be party to the mass sacrifice of the people or of a child.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Hunter Noventa posted:

The Rift where the Ascians hang out is, I think a more metaphysical place between the shards. Space is space, and both Omega and Midgardsormr crossed it to the Source sometime after the Sundering.

What's not known is are the other shards somehow isolated into little pocket dimensions that take up the same space in the universe as the source? Like if you had a spaceship and were observing the star system from outside of it, would the other shards be detectable?

Well they refer to Omega as having "crossed the Rift."

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Waffleman_ posted:

I'm going to assume that the .4 and .5 dungeons are gonna both be on the Source because it's not like we can bring trusts into the First anymore.

Which begs a fascinating question: will Ryne be removed from the "canon" Trust lineup? Or are we going to pull out our Azem Signature Spell to call her over?

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Mad Wack posted:

they need to add more stickers, stickers finally made gpose worth it for me

Personally what I would really like is an ability to change the weather.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

YES bread posted:

everyone is so sick of villains with understandable motivations and tragic backstories. "please" theyre crying out, "just let me bunch a dude in a nazi uniform!!!"

There was literally an editorial claiming this not long ago. Heh.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Cythereal posted:

Considering that he was the Emissary before he was the hart of Zodiark, I'm guessing 'Emissary' was a position of spiritual leadership among the Amaurotines, and it's not unknown for religious leaders to be young if not children when they're perceived to be special and enlightened.

Likewise, Elidibus implies that Emet-Selch's title of 'the Architect' was more a reference to building nations than to building physical structures.

Azem, the WoL, seems to have been the Convocation's very own murderhobo.


That was Azem. The Hydaelen folks split off from the Amaurotines only after Zodiark was summoned, but Azem resigned her post and left before Zodiark was even summoned due to her objecting to the plan.

And in his defense, Elidibus was an extremely dedicated leader, and the Convocation members do mention people doubted his abilities at first.

It's also worth considering that creation magic - and primals - come from the mind of those who create them. Zodiark was an impossibly vast ask as creations go, presumably without any precursor in their bank of ideal concepts. Who can better envision a wondrous savior who fixes everything and restores the world "back to normal" without considering disastrous concepts and side effects than the simple, creative imagination of a child?

In a world where the ability to create life and substance comes directly from imagination and philosophical concepts, a child's imagination is a unique asset.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

cheetah7071 posted:

I could see some people being annoyed at the idea that the WoL has no longer "earned" their accomplishments, because they were born special, but I think that's a misreading of the situation

The only special benefits we've gotten from having a fragment of Azem's sou; are the echo (which is a property of all sundered souls, seemingly) and we attuned to the Azem job stone remarkably quickly

I mean as I've said before I think this whole framing of the situation doesn't quite work within the context of reincarnation. We are as much Azem as Ardbert. We have always been thus. There is no beginning of end, just changes from one incarnation to the next; continuity clearly exists in some subconscious form.

No, the Warrior of Light is not a "Self-made" hero, but that's because self-made heroes, in the context of a reincarnation universe, don't really exist. And certainly don't when one considers the strong themes of legacy, picking up what was left to you by prior generations, etc. We've never been presented as just a self-made hero, and honestly the idea we're just Special Because - the "mightiest of your kind" - Of Will to Power isn't really any more egalitarian.

cheetah7071 posted:

Hydaelyn is still better than Zodiark in the current status quo because Zodiark still wants to do some more genocides, and Hydaelyn was satisfied with just the one. I don't expect us to actually turn on her any time soon for that reason, even if we break off our alliance. Maybe once Zodiark is dead

Idk, I think assuming that Hydaelyn has some malignant desire of her own is questionable. She hasn't been wholly honest with us, but she hasn't really lied, either. We don't quite have a specific unbiased account of the original Sundering and what caused it. Hell, I'm not even sure I'd call the Sundering a genocide - from Emet's metaphor, it seems to me more like all the various younger life-forms spawned by the Amaurotines just got forked into multiple worlds unaware of the others.

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Aug 18, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Doublestep posted:

I could see us renouncing Hydaelyn or needing to reckon with her being a primal but i think it’ll be less “welp time to kill My god, now” and more of a forced hand scenario or something, if we do need to kill her. the game has repeatedly shown us how primals damage everything around them by existing im curious to see if she fits that same category

It's complicated because, like, we've only ever known a world where Hydaelyn exists, and she also to be fair doesn't seem to really exist on the material plane? Like she seems to spend most of her time chilling in the aetherial sea, and if anything shoots energy into us to dunk on jerks even harder.

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Aug 19, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Cleretic posted:

That's like saying the pixies failed to create a flourishing economy. Emet literally never even tried to make any of the empires he built 'healthy', he built those empires up specifically so they would go on to destroy the world. Sometimes multiple times.

To be fair, I'm not actually entirely sure that's true. Emet seem to have had a very indecisive attitude towards his nation-states; whether it's just because of the scope of time involved in the span between "prosperous empire" and "dissolving catastrophe engine" he seems to have taken pains to build empires he found at least somewhat personally appealing. For example, in his guise as Solus, encouraging the arts and creativity in Garlemald doesn't exactly suit its fascistic purposes. If nothing else, since Emet presumably perceives time like a Spoken and not a dragon, he doesn't exactly go into centuries-long naps, so he's gotta spend time in the places he builds.

Emet seems to have repeatedly tried to go native, in the same way that Elidibus seems to have encouraged and posed as heroes throughout the history of the various Shards even if he was not actually the original Warrior of Light. (He explicitly says he's imitating the Warrior of Light.)

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Aug 25, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Its Rinaldo posted:

He was napping for fifteen years!

Just want to have him and Feo Ul to dramatically appear to poo poo talk me like my own fantasy royal Statler and Waldorf


Going to plays while you're sitting around waiting for your engineered evil empire to commit crimes while blowing up planetary populations doesn't exactly halt the boot stomping on the human face forever behaviors you set them up to do.

Sure, but like, a lot of Garlemald's whole deal seems to have initially involved a lot of genuine improvement for the lives of individual Garleans, and of course Allag for a very long time was a genuinely thriving and prosperous empire which bettered the lives of a lot of people before degenerating into its latter decadence of monstrous tyranny.

Doesn't excuse the evil fascistic stages, but it implies Emet was doing a lot of genuine nation-building as well as "setting up unwieldy nightmare state prone to collapse." You need a prosperous stage before your empire can fall apart sufficiently nastily.

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 25, 2020

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Weren't those empires, regardless of whatever benefits they provided in the interim, expressly designed to end in mass death and destruction in order to exploit the omnicide of an entire shard

Oh absolutely, I'm not saying Emet was good or anything, so much as he seems to have been indecisive and indulged himself in trying to build little reflections of things he valued in the interim stages.

Isn't it canon that he's periodically wavered and tried to go native?

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

why did Lahabrea make a fem-ifrit

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Gruckles posted:

Does the Amalj'aa culture even have the concept of genders?

I think they're supposed to have a concept of gender but almost no sexual dimorphism to speak of?

In other news, I find the notion they keep playing at with "concepts" in relation to creation magic fascinating. It's like it's a persistent pseudo-soul or essence to build a summoned entity around? And now they've confirmed there's some of 'em just lying around ready to use?

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Mulva posted:

No, a concept is exactly what it sounds like. Literally an idea. This means more to them because their magic is thinking about something and making it real. A detailed enough concept is enough for them to create something. And yeah, that's what the Architect is in charge of. Concepts, their use and their storage. What concepts are implemented and how, what concepts are kept in case they need to be used later, and what concepts should never be released.

What I mean is that concepts seem to be persistent and stored in physical vessels. Coherent platonic ideals.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Gruckles posted:

After Zodiark rewrote the rules of reality and stopped the calamities, but before Hydaelyn splintered everything, new non-Ancient mortal souls started appearing in the world. The Ascians' endgoal was to sacrifice these new souls as an exchange with Zodiark, so that the Ancients who sacrificed themselves to form him the first time could be reclaimed. While the Hydaelyn faction thought that wasn't right, and sacrificed themselves to create her and prevent that. So now everyone is sundered, but not all are former-Ancients.

There's also the people that felt a great sense of having lost something important from witnessing the starshower, but didn't actually awaken the Echo. Who I think might be sundered Ancients, but just lacking the part of their soul that would grant the special abilities. Which could then relate to why some peoples' Echos vary in strength and usage.

Yeah, I'd assume not every part of a former Ancient necessarily gets the Echo part.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

FFXIV doesn't have many villains who are Evil in the sense of being fundamentally bad people. Even Gaius, evil in his actions and legacy, is ultimately a man with a powerful capacity for goodness who made bad decisions. Hell, the Ascians in general are this - they are not evil in the sense of absolute objects of repugnance, they are originally good people who made really bad decisions and did monstrous things. The difference is subtle but important, I think.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Eimi posted:

Zenos is evil though because he's a piece of poo poo through and through.

In a warped sort of way, if we assume that the Amaurotines aren't just totally full of poo poo and the unsundered had senses and capacities sundered souls have dulled, I could totally see why Zenos is a solipsistic monster - he's got more unsundered essence in him than most folks around him. In a way, he is "more real" than the people surrounding him, if you buy the whole Sundered/Unsundered divide, and finds it difficult to consider anyone else around him as a full person who matters.

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Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011

Yelling at clouds.

Mister Olympus posted:

tbh the consistent implications that Zenos isn't really ensouled or human as we understand it are the worst things about him. I get that it's a reference to Sephiroth and that by the time you actually meet Sephiroth in present-day in FF7 he's stopped being human entirely, but from the perspective we have now, especially with that recent bonus story that just has kid zenos as in a very hostile home environment and somewhat autistic-coded, only to turn that into why he's inhuman/monstrous, not using it for pity or anything. There's a lot more to be revealed and said about him, and I'm ready for them to turn it around but it's written super awkward, just like the warriors of darkness felt like a really weird sidetrack during the heavensward patch cycle itself while you were waiting the story out.

Even putting myself in a hypothetical future point where everything has come together, the side story is pretty oof and the whole premise just isn't as great.

I mean, I can see Zenos as neuroatypical, but I'm not really sure that it's why he's a bad person or solipsistic. There's several other characters who are neuroatypical-coded, no?

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