Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.
<this space left intentionally blank, will be updated later. Fuck Lowtax>

In the spirit of Cyrano's call for threads, I'm starting one about first aid kits, and why everyone who owns a gun should have one.
The first thing to say is that I am in no way a medical expert. I have taken two Stop the Bleed classes, which I would highly recommend, but that's the extent of my training. I know that there are people here on TFR who have a lot more medical training and experience than me so I'll welcome any input or advice from them. Given that this is TFR, I'm going to focus on trauma or "blowout" kits that are intended to deal with gunshot wounds or similar traumatic injuries.

Training:
The first thing you should consider, before even buying or assembling a kit, is learning how to use the contents. I've had very good experiences with the Stop The Bleed program, which offers intro-level classes around the US that cover the basics of how to treat gunshot wounds. They are also typically free, which is nice. There are other companies that offer similar training as well. One thing to consider is that Red Cross first-aid classes sometimes take a more broad approach, and may not deal specifically with trauma medicine. At a Stop the Bleed class, the instructor will demonstrate things like how to properly put on a tourniquet, how to apply chest seals, the use of hemostatic blood clotting agents, and how to pack a wound with gauze.

Kits themselves:
You can buy pre-made first aid kits at any number of websites, but many of them have items that are more useful for minor injuries than major ones. If you really don't want to go to the effort of putting your own kit together, then I would recommend a kit from North American Rescue or Chinook Medical Gear. There are other companies out there that put together kits, but those are the ones that I have experience with.

The other option, of course, is to build your own kit. This will allow you to tailor the contents to fit your situation, budget, and training. Common components include, iin no particular order, tourniquets, pressure bandages, hemostatic agents, gauze, shears, gloves, and a sharpie. I don't carry decompression needles or nasopharyngeal airway tubes in my kits, because I haven't been trained to use them.

A note on tourniquets: What tourniquet to buy and carry has become something of a hot-button issue on the internet. At the Stop The Bleed classes I've attended, I was trained how to use the NAR CAT-7, but the Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC) does have a list of approved tourniquets. I would not recommend getting a tourniquet that's not on this list. Also, make sure you don't get a counterfeit tourniquet. The CAT series in particulr is prone to being faked, especially on Amazon. It's best to order them directly from the manufacturer, North American Rescue.

All that being said, here are the two kits that I've built:


In terms of contents, going clockwise from the upper left I have a compact chest seal, a pair of rolled nitrile gloves, a roll of kerlix gauze for packing wounds, a CAT-7, a roll of duct tape, a pair of compact EMT shears, a Quick-Clot hemostatic gauze, and a compact H&H pressure bandage. This is the kit I carry in my backpack when I'm at college. It's a bit smaller than my other kit, but I have all the basics. The bag is just one I reused from a more general-purpose first-aid kit. I like the clamshell style, that makes it easy to get at everything, and the size was good for what i wanted.

I keep my other kit in my car, and I take it with me when I go to the range:



The contents are essentially the same as in the smaller kits, except that there's more of them.

Resources:
Stop the Bleed - They offer free classes that cover the basics of trauma medicine.
North American Rescue - They make the CAT tourniquet, and also offer some good pre-made kits as well.
Chinook Medical Gear - They sell everything you need to build your own IFAK, and their LIFE kit series would also be a good choice for a premade trauma kit.
Adventure Medical Kits - They are a good option for non-trauma oriented kits and supplies.

Beardless fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 13, 2020

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.
<this space left intentionally blank, will be updated later. Fuck Lowtax>

Useful stuff from the thread:

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

I did an effortpost in the chat thread awhile ago re: first aid kits, so I'll repost it:


Disclaimer: I am not a doctor nor a paramedic. I am not a nurse! This is all just the personal opinion of an idiot on the internet. CALL 911

I worked for years doing first-aid response at a public/touristy destination and got to see a very wide variety of cool ways people find to hurt themselves. I've looked at a lot of commercially available kits and never really found a good one that wasn't wildly expensive. I would suggest anyone needing one to just build their own - you will end up with much higher quality ingredients and have a more tailor made kit not generally designed for an office break room. You know your hobbies, your house/yard, how your friend likes to juggle knives when he's over drinking, etc. As a bonus 'cuz we're buying in (relative) bulk you will have enough to split it into three kits so you can keep one in your house, one in your car and give the other one to your spouse, friend, range buddy, etc.

Box of nitrile gloves - you may have these already but if you're doing first aid on anyone but yourself, wear them!
Antiseptic wipes - clean the wound you dummy
Box of Large Bandages
Box of regular bandages
Box of Fingertip Bandages
Box of knuckle bandages - these are different from fingertip bandages, and will actually stay on and allow your knuckle to flex after you smash it on a tree or w/e
Gauze Wraps - key for keeping gauze on head/scalp wounds or large arm/leg injuries
Gauze pads - for the cuts/scrapes/punctures too big or too bloody for bandaids. I link the individual sterile ones here because they're more suited to long-term first aid kit storage or public use, but for my personal kits I prefer a ziploc full of bulk gauze:
Bulk gauze - if poo poo happens and you need a lot of gauze fast, this in a ziploc is better for a more trauma oriented kit. Cheaper too.
1 ace bandage per kit
1 adhesive wrap per kit
1 eyewash per kit
1 tweezer per kit - probably what you'll use the most. For the love of god don't cheap out on these... this is where pre-made kits will let you down. So many of them come with the throwaway plastic tweezers which are essentially useless on anything smaller than a matchstick. I actually carry several kinds of tweezers as often one will work where another doesn't.
-A small pair of scissors. You probably have a spare in the house already.
-Two or three gallon ziploc bags - fill with ice+water for icing injuries/burns, saving a severed finger for transport to the ER, and also for cleaning up bloody gauze for disposal. Surprisingly useful.
-A few sewing needles for getting very small, annoying splinters

That's most of what you'll likely ever need. Divvy up the bulk stuff into small ziplocs and you're good to go. Assuming you buy 3x of the single items above for three kits, you're at about $50/kit at this point, and it will all fit in one of those plastic ammo cans from Harbor Freight. Now you can start adding stuff specific to your needs:

Medicine - I bought bottles of generic advil, ibuprofen and antihistamine at Costco. Mix them into an old prescription bottle etc, and put a sticker on the side with a key showing what color = what pill. A small, seperate bottle of aspirin for heart attacks could be advisable too.
More sterilizing supplies - depends on how big you want your kit to be, but a bottle of rubbing alcohol, iodine, etc
Heavy duty trauma poo poo - let's face it, we're all here for the guns and poo poo happens. I hesitate to make any recommendations here because this is where you should be calling the paramedics but that being said, you could add a tourniquet, Israeli bandage, etc. and LEARN HOW/WHEN TO USE THEM. Something to consider especially if you like to do remote offroading or are in extremely rural areas where emergency response is a ways off.
Regional - consider poison oak/ivy wash, sting/bite relief, etc.

You will find yourself using, customizing and changing your gear over the years as you learn what you want. When you hurt yourself around the house use your kit, not the box of band-aids in the bathroom cabinet. This will help to slowly rotate out your supplies as well as teach you how to use your kit in (hopefully) low-stress situations. Maybe you discover that it's really hard to open xyz container with a bloody hand so you decide to package it differently, etc. Also, take a Red Cross certified first-aid class! They are great, the instructors are very friendly, and you will learn CPR. I take one every two years. Ask dumb questions. Think of the most likely way you are to hurt yourself and ask how to treat it.

I know I've forgotten things, and like I said I'm not a medical professional so take everything with a grain of salt. If you are one and I'm incorrect I welcome correction! Thank you for tuning in to my tedtalk.

pantslesswithwolves posted:

Iím gonna link Kommieís awesome thread from a few years ago about gunshot wounds and the science behind them. This is a super good resource for learning how bullets disrupt soft tissue and imparts a good bit of medical knowledge in a way thatís easy to digest and understand.

I have a few kits that I keep around. In my kitchen at home, I have a NAR Public Access Bleeding Control Kit in case a dynamic tactical situation occurs and I have to engage in close quarters combat with a number of heavily armed assailants and- my wife or I have an accident while cooking and end up with a bad bleed. I also have a NAR MFAK that I wear on my belt if Iím at the range. Both of these kits are the Basic variety so they donít contain needles for decompression or anything like that, just a CAT, chest seals and hemostatic gauze. This matches my level of training and can only aid a patient if the equipment within is applied correctly, especially if definitive care is relatively close.

For bumps and bruises incurred outdoors (for me, mountain biking), Iím a fan of Adventure Medicalís kits, especially these ones. Iíve augmented mine with some additional gloves and meds, especially Benadryl, Aspirin and single-serving electrolyte drink powder, and some combat gauze.

In addition to Stop the Bleed, I highly recommend doing a Wilderness First Aid course from NOLS. Theyíve partnered with REI to make the training that much more accessible, and itís like $250 for 16 hours of instruction and practice on managing injuries in a backcountry or austere environment. It also provides an excellent foundation for further learning, such as the Wilderness First Responder certification.

Beardless fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 14, 2020

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Do you include anything for less traumatic wounds in your kits? Iíve got a very basic one in my car and having some simple bandages has come in handy more than once. For those times when you donít need to bust out the quick clot and a tourniquet but also need something more than a band aid.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Also great thread idea.

stuxracer
May 4, 2006



If you can post some good recommendations for general kits: small cuts, bumps, burns, etc. that would be very helpful. There are like 500 options on Amazon but I have no idea which companies are good. For home use I just buy products I normally use, but not great for a kit. Maybe just assembling my own from an empty bag is the best option.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

Do you include anything for less traumatic wounds in your kits? Iíve got a very basic one in my car and having some simple bandages has come in handy more than once. For those times when you donít need to bust out the quick clot and a tourniquet but also need something more than a band aid.

For me, it depends on the first aid kit. I have a comprehensive first aid kit that also has a load of comfort and bumps/bruises related supplies that I carry with me when I travel but I keep a bare-bones stop-bleed kit in my range bag at all times.

Edit: all my kits have aspirin in them because heart attacks are serious loving business.

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.
<this space left intentionally blank, will be updated later. Fuck Lowtax>

Cyrano4747 posted:

Do you include anything for less traumatic wounds in your kits? Iíve got a very basic one in my car and having some simple bandages has come in handy more than once. For those times when you donít need to bust out the quick clot and a tourniquet but also need something more than a band aid.

I usually keep a small kit like this one in my bag as well. I admittedly do not have much in the way of medium-level stuff though.

stuxracer posted:

If you can post some good recommendations for general kits: small cuts, bumps, burns, etc. that would be very helpful. There are like 500 options on Amazon but I have no idea which companies are good. For home use I just buy products I normally use, but not great for a kit. Maybe just assembling my own from an empty bag is the best option.

Adventure Medical Kits makes good stuff, and if you wanted to build your own they also sell components and refill packs. Chinook Medical Gear also sell more general first-aid kits as well.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

I actually had to use and then restock the mini-FAK I keep in my range box on my last trip.

One of my guests managed to cut himself on something (using one of two disinfectant wipes and a bandage) and then managed to put a staple through a target holder and into his finger (which took a disposable shop towel, the last disinfectant wipe, and another bandage).

I now have more disinfectant wipes and bandages in that kit, because that's the second staple gun accident I've seen at my gun club.

The first and worst was a guy who stapled his drat hand to the target holder because he was an idiot.

Injury honorable mention to the dude who managed to eject a round from some AK-variant into his face so hard it broke the skin and bled for a solid 15 minutes.

stuxracer
May 4, 2006



Beardless posted:

Adventure Medical Kits makes good stuff, and if you wanted to build your own they also sell components and refill packs. Chinook Medical Gear also sell more general first-aid kits as well.
Thanks I will take a look. The ranges I've been visiting are much further away from civilization so I bring a North American Rescue M-FAK but it's the tiny injuries that happen all the time and last time I just brought a ziplock bag with random things. Getting something a little nicer is probably due since my version was a bit of a mess.

As Cyrano said, great thread idea.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Cyrano4747 posted:

Do you include anything for less traumatic wounds in your kits? Iíve got a very basic one in my car and having some simple bandages has come in handy more than once. For those times when you donít need to bust out the quick clot and a tourniquet but also need something more than a band aid.
EMT for the last six years, with a dash of construction site medical, so I'm gonna toss in my two cents on this:
A forearm-length 2x4 and some cravat bandages are great for upper extremity breaks- if you know any EMTs ask them to teach you "sling and swath" techniques.

Duct tape to fix anything is a meme but it's also great for splinting long bone fractures since you can use that with basically anything long and rigid to splint a leg. No, they can't walk on it but you can use it to drag them out.

For less severe stuff, cold packs (make sure they aren't somewhere where they can get crushed), 4x4 gauze and both gauze and Koflex roller bandages, ibuprofen (not acetominophen, that stuff is awful for you), eye flushes, and splinter removers.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Cyrano4747 posted:

Do you include anything for less traumatic wounds in your kits? I’ve got a very basic one in my car and having some simple bandages has come in handy more than once. For those times when you don’t need to bust out the quick clot and a tourniquet but also need something more than a band aid.

Yeah especially now that I'm a parent, I have my real trauma kits, and a "boo-boo" kit for abrasions, cuts, etc. I'm sure you can guess which one gets pulled out more often.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


A quick word on medications: be really careful when giving someone medication, even aspirin or a hemostatic dressing. (Hemostatic dressings are a paramedic skill in some jurisdictions.) It's really easy to move into doing what is legally prescribing or administering medication without realizing it. This can cause you problems depending on your state law. Even if you're in the clear legally due to a Good Samaritan statute, you may end up paying a lawyer a lot of money to figure that out for you if things go sideways. Same goes for putting anything into another person's body or pulling anything out. Do not under any circumstances attempt a field crichothyrotomy or thoracostomy, no matter how many times you have seen it in the movies.

Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Aug 13, 2020

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

Dead Reckoning posted:

A quick word on medications: be really careful when giving someone medication, even aspirin or a hemostatic dressing. (Hemostatic dressings are a paramedic skill in some jurisdictions.) It's really easy to move into doing what is legally prescribing or administering medication without realizing it. This can cause you problems depending on your state law. Even if you're in the clear legally due to a Good Samaritan statute, you may end up paying a lawyer a lot of money to figure that out for you if things go sideways. Same goes for putting anything into another person's body or pulling anything out. Do not under any circumstances attempt a field crichothyrotomy, no matter how many times you have seen it in the movies.

*slowly puts away steak knife and bits of ballpoint pen ripped apart with his teeth*
...fine.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Dead Reckoning posted:

. Do not under any circumstances attempt a field crichothyrotomy or thoracostomy, no matter how many times you have seen it in the movies.

Those are usually the things that are a "NO, DON'T DO IT!"

Basically, never do anything invasive (where you make a hole in a person) unless you are certed for it. And working under a doctor if you are.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


There are an unfortunately large number of Ricky Rescues who cannot wait to pull cervical traction, spray narcan up the noses of unconscious diabetics, and use the thoracostomy needle that came with their NAR Combat Trauma Kit.

But even below that, it's really easy to make a mistake treating an injured person when your adrenaline is up. If someone suffered an impact sufficient to break long bones, I wouldn't try moving or splinting them on my own unless it was absolutely necessary.

Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 13, 2020

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





This thread made me dig up the best tweezers I've ever used (that I needed to rebuy): http://www.slivergripper.net/

Uncle Bill's Silver Grippers. The website is non-secure but the payment is a secure squarespace page, or you can order from Amazon.

These things have put in some work while staffing the medical tents at Bonnaroo lemme tell you what.

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007

Most of the gear, most of the time


Thanks for this thread, between my interests of guns, motorcycles, and hiking, it seems like I should have more "how to handle medical trauma" knowledge. Just signed up for a Stop the Bleed class in October (and it's free!)

The Royal Nonesuch
Nov 1, 2005



Pillbug

I did an effortpost in the chat thread awhile ago re: first aid kits, so I'll repost it:


Disclaimer: I am not a doctor nor a paramedic. I am not a nurse! This is all just the personal opinion of an idiot on the internet. CALL 911

I worked for years doing first-aid response at a public/touristy destination and got to see a very wide variety of cool ways people find to hurt themselves. I've looked at a lot of commercially available kits and never really found a good one that wasn't wildly expensive. I would suggest anyone needing one to just build their own - you will end up with much higher quality ingredients and have a more tailor made kit not generally designed for an office break room. You know your hobbies, your house/yard, how your friend likes to juggle knives when he's over drinking, etc. As a bonus 'cuz we're buying in (relative) bulk you will have enough to split it into three kits so you can keep one in your house, one in your car and give the other one to your spouse, friend, range buddy, etc.

Box of nitrile gloves - you may have these already but if you're doing first aid on anyone but yourself, wear them!
Antiseptic wipes - clean the wound you dummy
Box of Large Bandages
Box of regular bandages
Box of Fingertip Bandages
Box of knuckle bandages - these are different from fingertip bandages, and will actually stay on and allow your knuckle to flex after you smash it on a tree or w/e
Gauze Wraps - key for keeping gauze on head/scalp wounds or large arm/leg injuries
Gauze pads - for the cuts/scrapes/punctures too big or too bloody for bandaids. I link the individual sterile ones here because they're more suited to long-term first aid kit storage or public use, but for my personal kits I prefer a ziploc full of bulk gauze:
Bulk gauze - if poo poo happens and you need a lot of gauze fast, this in a ziploc is better for a more trauma oriented kit. Cheaper too.
1 ace bandage per kit
1 adhesive wrap per kit
1 eyewash per kit
1 tweezer per kit - probably what you'll use the most. For the love of god don't cheap out on these... this is where pre-made kits will let you down. So many of them come with the throwaway plastic tweezers which are essentially useless on anything smaller than a matchstick. I actually carry several kinds of tweezers as often one will work where another doesn't.
-A small pair of scissors. You probably have a spare in the house already.
-Two or three gallon ziploc bags - fill with ice+water for icing injuries/burns, saving a severed finger for transport to the ER, and also for cleaning up bloody gauze for disposal. Surprisingly useful.
-A few sewing needles for getting very small, annoying splinters

That's most of what you'll likely ever need. Divvy up the bulk stuff into small ziplocs and you're good to go. Assuming you buy 3x of the single items above for three kits, you're at about $50/kit at this point, and it will all fit in one of those plastic ammo cans from Harbor Freight. Now you can start adding stuff specific to your needs:

Medicine - I bought bottles of generic advil, ibuprofen and antihistamine at Costco. Mix them into an old prescription bottle etc, and put a sticker on the side with a key showing what color = what pill. A small, seperate bottle of aspirin for heart attacks could be advisable too.
More sterilizing supplies - depends on how big you want your kit to be, but a bottle of rubbing alcohol, iodine, etc
Heavy duty trauma poo poo - let's face it, we're all here for the guns and poo poo happens. I hesitate to make any recommendations here because this is where you should be calling the paramedics but that being said, you could add a tourniquet, Israeli bandage, etc. and LEARN HOW/WHEN TO USE THEM. Something to consider especially if you like to do remote offroading or are in extremely rural areas where emergency response is a ways off.
Regional - consider poison oak/ivy wash, sting/bite relief, etc.

You will find yourself using, customizing and changing your gear over the years as you learn what you want. When you hurt yourself around the house use your kit, not the box of band-aids in the bathroom cabinet. This will help to slowly rotate out your supplies as well as teach you how to use your kit in (hopefully) low-stress situations. Maybe you discover that it's really hard to open xyz container with a bloody hand so you decide to package it differently, etc. Also, take a Red Cross certified first-aid class! They are great, the instructors are very friendly, and you will learn CPR. I take one every two years. Ask dumb questions. Think of the most likely way you are to hurt yourself and ask how to treat it.

I know I've forgotten things, and like I said I'm not a medical professional so take everything with a grain of salt. If you are one and I'm incorrect I welcome correction! Thank you for tuning in to my tedtalk.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


Pillbug

Iím gonna link Kommieís awesome thread from a few years ago about gunshot wounds and the science behind them. This is a super good resource for learning how bullets disrupt soft tissue and imparts a good bit of medical knowledge in a way thatís easy to digest and understand.

I have a few kits that I keep around. In my kitchen at home, I have a NAR Public Access Bleeding Control Kit in case a dynamic tactical situation occurs and I have to engage in close quarters combat with a number of heavily armed assailants and- my wife or I have an accident while cooking and end up with a bad bleed. I also have a NAR MFAK that I wear on my belt if Iím at the range. Both of these kits are the Basic variety so they donít contain needles for decompression or anything like that, just a CAT, chest seals and hemostatic gauze. This matches my level of training and can only aid a patient if the equipment within is applied correctly, especially if definitive care is relatively close.

For bumps and bruises incurred outdoors (for me, mountain biking), Iím a fan of Adventure Medicalís kits, especially these ones. Iíve augmented mine with some additional gloves and meds, especially Benadryl, Aspirin and single-serving electrolyte drink powder, and some combat gauze.

In addition to Stop the Bleed, I highly recommend doing a Wilderness First Aid course from NOLS. Theyíve partnered with REI to make the training that much more accessible, and itís like $250 for 16 hours of instruction and practice on managing injuries in a backcountry or austere environment. It also provides an excellent foundation for further learning, such as the Wilderness First Responder certification.

pantslesswithwolves fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Aug 14, 2020

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.
<this space left intentionally blank, will be updated later. Fuck Lowtax>

MomJeans420 posted:

Thanks for this thread, between my interests of guns, motorcycles, and hiking, it seems like I should have more "how to handle medical trauma" knowledge. Just signed up for a Stop the Bleed class in October (and it's free!)

Excellent!


The Royal Nonesuch posted:

I did an effortpost in the chat thread awhile ago re: first aid kits, so I'll repost it:
...

This is awesome, mind if I quote it in the reserved post? I had intended that for a general repository of good advice that the thread generated.


pantslesswithwolves posted:

I’m gonna link Kommie’s awesome thread from a few years ago about gunshot wounds and the science behind them. This is a super good resource for learning how bullets disrupt soft tissue and imparts a good bit of medical knowledge in a way that’s easy to digest and understand.

I have a few kits that I keep around. In my kitchen at home, I have a NAR Public Access Bleeding Control Kit in case a dynamic tactical situation occurs and I have to engage in close quarters combat with a number of heavily armed assailants and- my wife or I have an accident while cooking and end up with a bad bleed. I also have a NAR MFAK that I wear on my belt if I’m at the range. Both of these kits are the Basic variety so they don’t contain needles for decompression or anything like that, just a CAT, chest seals and hemostatic gauze. This matches my level of training and can only aid a patient if the equipment within is applied correctly, especially if definitive care is relatively close.

For bumps and bruises incurred outdoors (for me, mountain biking), I’m a fan of Adventure Medical’s kits, especially these ones. I’ve augmented mine with some additional gloves and meds, especially Benadryl, Aspirin and single-serving electrolyte drink powder, and some combat gauze.

In addition to Stop the Bleed, I highly recommend doing a Wilderness First Aid course from NOLS. They’ve partnered with REI to make the training that much more accessible, and it’s like $250 for 16 hours of instruction and practice on managing injuries in a backcountry or austere environment. It also provides an excellent foundation for further learning, such as the Wilderness First Responder certification.

Thanks for posting that link, and that's a good call on the Wilderness First Aid course. Again, do you mind if I quote this in the OP?

thr33n0r
Nov 18, 2006
www.theowla.com

Cyrano4747 posted:

Do you include anything for less traumatic wounds in your kits? Iíve got a very basic one in my car and having some simple bandages has come in handy more than once. For those times when you donít need to bust out the quick clot and a tourniquet but also need something more than a band aid.

I think trauma is generally over-represented in personal first aid kits. Yes, you want to be able to handle a traumatic injury, but you're far more frequently going to be dealing with small wound care, allergic reactions, minor medical things, etc. I work as a paramedic and my kits are far more generally focused. A good compression bandage and a tourniquet are usually in any given kit, but most of the kit is more pedestrian and more useful.

Your training will dictate what your kits hold. Mine have evolved massively over the years.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


thr33n0r posted:

I think trauma is generally over-represented in personal first aid kits.
I'm of two minds on this.

One part of me says that you're absolutely correct, and that people fixate on the dramatic emergencies to the detriment of basic first aid skills.

The other part says that it doesn't really matter (outside a wilderness/disaster scenario) if a layperson can't help with a minor cut or even an extremity fracture, because passing the problem off to higher levels of care is an extremely reasonable solution. On the other hand, controlling bleeding and administering rapid, high-quality CPR on someone observed to go down are two scenarios where an unlicensed layperson can potentially make a huge difference in the patient's outcomes. Recognizing stroke and activating EMS falls in this bucket as well: even though a medic isn't going to be pushing thrombolytics on the truck, time to that TPA needle or stroke center is critical. (Or maybe medics can in some wild west systems, IDK.)

I think if someone was going to learn nothing else, I would want them to know bleeding control and CPR, but once they have those down, the focus should be on expanding skills horizontally, rather than vertically into higher levels of care.

I'll second NOLS classes for anyone who likes to go where an ambulance can't easily drive, because they do a good job of teaching students how to expand their ability to get a patient to definitive care in both time and distance.

The Royal Nonesuch
Nov 1, 2005



Pillbug

Beardless posted:

This is awesome, mind if I quote it in the reserved post? I had intended that for a general repository of good advice that the thread generated.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


Pillbug

Beardless posted:

Excellent!


This is awesome, mind if I quote it in the reserved post? I had intended that for a general repository of good advice that the thread generated.


Thanks for posting that link, and that's a good call on the Wilderness First Aid course. Again, do you mind if I quote this in the OP?

Sure thing; Iíll edit in a link to NOLS so itís more of a complete post.

Tyler Whitney
Jan 21, 2020

Why don't you make it sing?


Beardless posted:

Adventure Medical Kits makes good stuff, and if you wanted to build your own they also sell components and refill packs. Chinook Medical Gear also sell more general first-aid kits as well.

Their adventure pack is a pretty decent choice for a ~20 buck pack base to build off of since the Quickclot itself is like 15 bucks.

quote:

QuikClotģ fast-clotting agent
(1) 3" conforming gauge bandage
(1) 5" x 9" trauma pad
(2) 4" x 4" sterile gauze dressing
(2) 2" x 2" sterile gauze dressing
Triangular bandage
2" x 26" roll of medical-grade duct tape
Pair of nitrile gloves, hand wipe, antiseptic wipes


It's not comprehensive by any means but you could do worse for that pricing.

thr33n0r
Nov 18, 2006
www.theowla.com

Dead Reckoning posted:

I'm of two minds on this.

One part of me says that you're absolutely correct, and that people fixate on the dramatic emergencies to the detriment of basic first aid skills.

The other part says that it doesn't really matter (outside a wilderness/disaster scenario) if a layperson can't help with a minor cut or even an extremity fracture, because passing the problem off to higher levels of care is an extremely reasonable solution. On the other hand, controlling bleeding and administering rapid, high-quality CPR on someone observed to go down are two scenarios where an unlicensed layperson can potentially make a huge difference in the patient's outcomes. Recognizing stroke and activating EMS falls in this bucket as well: even though a medic isn't going to be pushing thrombolytics on the truck, time to that TPA needle or stroke center is critical. (Or maybe medics can in some wild west systems, IDK.)

I think if someone was going to learn nothing else, I would want them to know bleeding control and CPR, but once they have those down, the focus should be on expanding skills horizontally, rather than vertically into higher levels of care.

I'll second NOLS classes for anyone who likes to go where an ambulance can't easily drive, because they do a good job of teaching students how to expand their ability to get a patient to definitive care in both time and distance.

Agreed. I live in a very mountainous rural area, and good quality bystander CPR is always a positive influence on outcomes for arrests that I attend. Our response area is an hour in each direction, so immediate arrival of ambulance is not a reality for much of that area, even assuming units are available. Ditto bleeding control. In both of these cases, however, it is the training that matters vastly more than the equipment. I'm not advocating dumping all trauma equipment from kits, but a good general kit can accomplish effective bleeding control whereas an IFAK style trauma kit can't accomplish general first aid. A single tourniquet and a good compression dressing/wound packing gauze is an excellent addition to a kit, but for the whole kit to be compression dressings, clotting agents and tourniquets seems more like operator cosplay than actual medical preparation for the vast majority of people. This is all dependent on your situational context of course. I build a kit specifically for a trip or event, in many cases, based on likely medical needs.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Dead Reckoning posted:

Recognizing stroke and activating EMS falls in this bucket as well: even though a medic isn't going to be pushing thrombolytics on the truck, time to that TPA needle or stroke center is critical. (Or maybe medics can in some wild west systems, IDK.)


Fun fact, there are systems with trucks that have CT scanners and thrombolytics! Theyíre super rare though.

B-Rock452
Jan 6, 2005




This has been said a few times but think about what sort of scenarios you might end up using your kit for. At work I keep a blowout kit separate from my regular kit since there is a higher probability I might roll up on a shooting/stabbing and in the city the police policy is scoop and run so you will pretty much get the chance to throw a tourniquet on or stuff some gauze in a hole and then the guy is off to the ED in the back of a cruiser.

Also making sure you have little things like chap stick or smaller band aides in your kit can be a life saver. I was working a few weeks ago and saw a little girl take a pretty good fall on a bike and I sat with her while her brother went to get his mother and she had stopped crying by the time she got there because she was too distracted trying to pick the perfect Elsa bandage for her scrape.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Fun fact, there are systems with trucks that have CT scanners and thrombolytics! Theyíre super rare though.
I'm aware, but I'm pretty sure they are staffed with MDs or someone else at a similar level of care to push the TPA, and I would definitely not count on one showing up to any particular "grandma smells toast and can't smile with half her face" call.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Dead Reckoning posted:

I'm aware, but I'm pretty sure they are staffed with MDs or someone else at a similar level of care to push the TPA, and I would definitely not count on one showing up to any particular "grandma smells toast and can't smile with half her face" call.

In NY they have two medics and a nurse (standard for critical care units) plus a CT tech. The doc is consulted via telemedicine. Definitely not something youíre going to see outside of major cities though.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

I bought a kit from LA Police Gear and added a few bits of my own. They were having a sale at the time that made them a steal, not sure if that's still the case. I got enough to make five of them and handed them out to family as Christmas presents.

One thing I recommend is buying a bulk bag of miniature hand sanitizers. I have mine clipped to the outside of every bag, and in the process of using it it reminds me to check and update the bag. Any time it starts getting low I'll replace it and a bunch of the other stuff

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



DarkHorse posted:

I bought a kit from LA Police Gear and added a few bits of my own. They were having a sale at the time that made them a steal, not sure if that's still the case. I got enough to make five of them and handed them out to family as Christmas presents.

One thing I recommend is buying a bulk bag of miniature hand sanitizers. I have mine clipped to the outside of every bag, and in the process of using it it reminds me to check and update the bag. Any time it starts getting low I'll replace it and a bunch of the other stuff

Similar to this I keep a few extra pairs of gloves in a bag next to where I store the ifak so I will never not have them if I need them, and it's obvious when they run out.

TurdBurgles
Sep 17, 2007

I AM WHITE AND PLAY NA FLUTE ON TRIBAL LANDS WITH NO GUILT.

Does stop the bleed or NOLS cover anything on how to treat kids? I always worry when we are out with kids around.

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.
<this space left intentionally blank, will be updated later. Fuck Lowtax>

TurdBurgles posted:

Does stop the bleed or NOLS cover anything on how to treat kids? I always worry when we are out with kids around.

The main thing that was discussed in my Stop the Bleed class was that not all tourniquets would work on children, since their arms or legs might be too small for the tourniquet to have an effect. Other than that, most everything in the class is applicable for children as well.

B-Rock452
Jan 6, 2005




Beardless posted:

The main thing that was discussed in my Stop the Bleed class was that not all tourniquets would work on children, since their arms or legs might be too small for the tourniquet to have an effect. Other than that, most everything in the class is applicable for children as well.

From what I remember North American Rescue has had a few posts about their tourniquets being used on kids and it looks like my Gen 7 will fit a small child. I think it's the tac med solutions SOF tourniquets that don't cinch down enough

Prof. Banks
Apr 22, 2015

Computer lab day! Time to spend 45 minutes trying to load pokemon.com!




We did a stop the bleed class for professional development at my school last year and they did mention that some tourniquets wouldn't work if the kid had a ultra small limb, but that they should fit on the vast majority of kids.

thr33n0r
Nov 18, 2006
www.theowla.com

I'm a Stop the Bleed instructor and here's the kid specific part of the supplied presentation:

"In all but the extremely young child, the same
tourniquet used for adults can be used in children.
ē For the infant or very small child (tourniquet too
big), direct pressure on the wound as described
previously will work in virtually all cases.
ē For large, deep wounds, wound packing can be
performed in children just as in adults using the same
technique as described previously."

As with anything, you will be paying attention to your patient. Stop cranking when the bleeding stops and reassess periodically.

TurdBurgles
Sep 17, 2007

I AM WHITE AND PLAY NA FLUTE ON TRIBAL LANDS WITH NO GUILT.

Thanks all, I'll make it a priority to try to attend a class!

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade




I'm assuming the answer is yes, but does Quikclot (or equivalent) expire? How often does it need to be refreshed, generally?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.
<this space left intentionally blank, will be updated later. Fuck Lowtax>

Shooting Blanks posted:

I'm assuming the answer is yes, but does Quikclot (or equivalent) expire? How often does it need to be refreshed, generally?

It should have an expiration date marked on the packaging.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply