|
In fact, I’ve just had a read of Amni’s posts, and it all looks conspicuously terrible
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 14:26
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 17:41 |
|
|
I’m on a train at the moment and can’t really face phoneposting my analyses of his awful posting, but I will do so when I get home later
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 14:27
|
|
|
OK, Amnistar. His posting can be broadly divided into three parts that I think all have a scummy motivation... I started this based on a gut feeling, and as I looked into his posts in more detail, there is a trend that I see in here that backs that feeling up. Using this incredibly reaching "smug scum call back" idea to tunnel on me and refuse to move his vote: Amnistar posted:##vote sci Amnistar posted:Softclaiming a "night vig" as scum at the beginning of the game. Amnistar posted:I'm more focused on the second half, where you "definately don't have a dayvig" which is soft aiming a might vig. Amnistar posted:Just the smug comment about potentially having a nightkill. Amnistar posted:I think Sci is scum and I caught them in a deliberate scumslip, so I'm not moving my vote until it is clear they are not an option. Amnistar posted:Accidentally yes, but I think it's intentional so Sci can be a smug bug at the end of the game and I refuse to let them have that. Amnistar posted:When I read the post I read it as "Before I read my role pm I could have had a dayvig or a non-dayvig (i.e. nightvig) and now I *definately* don't have a dayvig *wink wink*" Amnistar posted:I think Sci deliberately said "non-dayvig" instead of "no dayvig" not as a breadcrumb to be found but as something to point at after game and say "See look, I told you I was scum!" This has a scummy motivation because it's easy to stick to and claim that you just got caught up in your own brilliance: if I get executed, when I flip town, he's got plausible deniability to shrug his shoulders and move onto someone else. If I don't get executed, it gives him a chance to continue to shirk real scum hunting in favour of harping on this stupid "scumslip" or whatever he decides to call it. It's stupid, and ignores the fact that I have never done anything of this sort ever as scum. Whiteknighting Bif: Amnistar posted:I agree with Toalpaz. Bif does not feel like scum to me. Amnistar posted:In ythe hambeet v Bif debate, bif looks good, hambeet looks bad. Amnistar posted:Bif reads as geniune in their stance. You come across as someone that thinks you've found something and aren't actually interested in any of the responses given. I see this back and forth as scum hambeet seeing a wedge that can be driven and town bif trying to explain why that wedge is dumb and being ignored. Amnistar posted:I think Bif is town. Amnistar posted:Basically, I read Bif as genuine and you as not genuine in the engagement. Amnistar posted:Exccept her arguement does make sense. Which is why I don't think you're being genuine, I think you're being deliberately obtuse to push a narrative. I think both Bif and Beet are townie in there exchange. The point is that Amni is poking at this argument from the sidelines and driving a "pick a side" narrative. This is scummy because it's not real scumhunting, and it creates a false dichotomy. I would be 100% unsurprised if both bif and beet are town: when I am scum I love it when two townies start targeting each other, because it becomes easy to manipulate the town into executing at least one townie, and I think that's what Amni is doing here. And the really great thing about it is that again, there is plausible deniability to it, and Amni can easily say "who, me?" if two townies get executed. Fake scumhunting SNG on bullshit: Amnistar posted:This, however, feels scummy to me. Amnistar posted:The feeling is fine. Postingit is white noise that is setting up for excusing themselves from reading. Amnistar posted:Scientastic, what do you think of SNG's entry to the thread? Amnistar posted:Naw, how people come into the game shows a LOT about where their mind is. SNG's entry to thread was functionally an excuse for not engaging, which is scummy in and of itself. Absolutely later activity is relevant to alignment, but the action itself stands alone. This is not real scumhunting, Amni is just sort of bullshitting his way around SNG's entry post here. SNG's post was fine, and Amni is mega-reaching, but he can also excuse this mega-reaching (and does so) because it's D1. It has an outward appearance of scumhunting, but really all he's doing is throwing poo poo at the wall, while keeping his vote on me for obsessively dumb reasons. Bonus fourth strand to the case! Dumb post ascribing scum motivations to me for voting for him, trying in advance to discredit any point I might have Amnistar posted:I eagerly await your analysis! You have waited long enough for it not to look like an OMGUS. Come off it. This is just terrible. Pre-emptively calling me out for an OMGUS and simultaneously implying that I have deliberately timed my vote so as not to make it look like a reaction to his incredibly reaching theory that, as far as I can see, has gained no traction and isn't a real threat to me. I think this is actually slightly telling: Amni is projecting a motivation here, because he is aware of how long ago the vote was and how he would dislike having one vote on him. I don't care about his vote on me, it makes no difference to my play.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:28
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Ok weirdly I feel like Sci is scummy for trying to make a huge deal out of Amni's dumb tunnelling than I do for a single thing that Amni's said That's very silly. The scum motivation for Amni to tunnel me is pretty clear, the town motivation is paper thin. My motivation in calling it out is to show other players that there is a scum motivation to Amni's actions, because so far there seem to be plenty of people who agree that his tunneling thing is dumb, but none who seem to understand why it would be a benefit as a scum play.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:37
|
|
|
If calling out scummy behaviour is "making a huge deal" of something, I think you and I might not see eye to eye much this game
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:38
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:O.o. I love the spin the scientastic. One of bif/hambeet must be scum is something I've never said, instead I am making a case on hambeet, because I think they are scum based on the kerfuffle. What? The first half of that sentence is in direct contradiction to the second half.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:42
|
|
|
Rarity posted:I'm not saying it wouldn't benefit scum to make that play, I'm saying I don't believe Amni's got the scum game to make what is a pretty high level play. I don't think most players do cause it's a very out-there move and anyone looking on would assume this is dumb town. That's why you trying to push it looks suss to me. I hate this argument. Scum make sub-optimal plays, just because something's dumb, doesn't make it townie.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:46
|
|
|
Scientastic posted:I hate this argument. Scum can also make sub-optimal plays, just because something's dumb, doesn't make it townie. Mafia edit
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:46
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:No? Your case has me presenting an either or scenario. I am not. Bif is town from that interaction. Even if hambeet is town I still think bif is town from that interaction. Oh, OK, I see what you're saying. I think you're drawing attention to the argument and creating an either/or dichotomy because it suits your ends. I don't necessarily think that you are pushing a chain execution. I guess that was unclear.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:48
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:Please explain what "either or dichotomy" im stting up if its not 'either hambeet is scum or bif is scum.' You are creating a narrative in the thread of focusing all of our attention onto this particular argument and pushing the idea that we must all pick a side. I get that you want me to be able to point to concrete examples of this, because that discredits my point, but mafia is a game of subterfuge: motives aren't always transparent and players try to manipulate events without being obvious. I think you're doing what I have described. If other people don't agree, I'm fine with that. Obviously, I don't really care that you don't agree, you're scum.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Your response doesn't make any sense. I said this play is either 'dumb town' or 'smart scum' and your response is 'scum can be dumb too'. I mean, yes they can? That's got nothing to do with what I said. Yes it does. You are saying there are only two possibilities: dumb town or smart scum, and I am saying that there is a third possibility, that Amni latched onto it and it was a sub-optimal scum play. Sometimes scum aren't masters of 3D chess, they just do things that might not appear to make sense. There is a scum motivation for doing what Amni has done, I see it, I am genuinely confused why you are attacking me for this.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:56
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:Please explain how making a case in the thread is not scum hunting (something you claim i am not doing) but is instead focusing all attention? Can you point me to this case you have made, please?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 15:57
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:Maybe "not interested" isn't the right phrasing then. You don't care about any answer given as an explanation. You are engaging to make Bif look bad, not because you think bif is scum. Do you mean this one? I guess you could call it a case. The "case" is not what I am claiming you are using to focus attention, it is the totality of your posting on the issue. You are misrepresenting what I am saying and hoping that people just won't check. I find your attacks on my case against you pretty disingenuous, you are needling at tiny points, instead of addressing the whole of it. This is, again, typical scum play. I am pretty happy with my vote.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 16:07
|
|
|
I'm going to make a start on dinner, I should be able to check in at some point between now and bed, but I won't be around for deadline, as usual.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 16:09
|
|
|
Rarity posted:These two sentences back to back don't seem legit at all ##vote Sci Just saw this in preview, and just want to say that you not seeing it and it appearing not make sense to you is a completely separate thing from me seeing the motivation.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 16:10
|
|
|
Scientastic posted:Just saw this in preview, and just want to say that you not seeing it and it appearing not make sense to you is a completely separate thing from me seeing the motivation. And on that incredibly arrogant sounding note, I am off to chop my ingredients and listen to the Cure with a glass of wine
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 16:11
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight". Woah, I thought your vote wasn’t moving and you were glad I’d cased you, so you could get me executed?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:16
|
|
|
I could vote for SNG, that big post of town reads is completely pointless and makes a big show out of very little scum hunting material
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
Amnistar posted:Yeah, but SNG's post is like...superbad Agreed ##Vote SNG
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
Maybe there’s... MORE THAN ONE SCUM?!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
There’s a continuum of confidence with scumreads, it is colossally disingenuous to think that two players who are extremely suspicious of each other can’t agree that someone is more scummy
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
I don’t like Amni’s play so far this game, but I respect him enough as a player that if I agree with him on a scumread, I’m not going to pretend I don’t see what he’s saying because I think he could be scum What a crazy thing to say
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:37
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:You'd think that your essay would lead you to believe you are more sure of Amni being scum than SNG. Can you explain to me why you'd vote SNG over Amni, even if they're both scum? In what ways is SNG the best option today? Did you read SNG’s post? It didn’t require anywhere near as much reading between the lines, interpretation or deduction, I read it and immediately thought “this guy’s scum”. With Amni, my gut says he’s scum, I went through his posts and tried to understand what my gut was subconsciously seeing and explain it to the thread, working out what motivations and reasoning I could see from a town or scum perspective. It’s complicated and involves a lot more mental work. My read on SNG is much simpler, and I prefer it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:40
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:You wrote more words about amnistar being scum than SNG, it makes it feel like you think amnistar is more scum reading your case on him than sng. That is why I bring it up. That is the inconsistency when you vote SNG on a single post. I don’t agree. Maybe if this were later in the game and we had a couple of scum flips, I could see where you were coming from, but for D1, I’d rather vote for someone who posted an egregious scum post
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:42
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:##vote Sci You are wrong and I don’t understand why you are unable to grasp what I think is a pretty basic principle
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:43
|
|
|
I woke up to over 100 posts, I’m not going to quote anything, but give my general impressions: SNG is still scum, he’s really defensive and reactive, and is not playing a town game Amni is less scummy now than he was yesterday, he seems to be being a bit more reasonable, like he’s remembered how to play Shalashuka Whatever is shitposting from the sidelines, I’d say he’s lurking scum Toalpaz is doing what he did D1 in our flawless scum victory, could be scum I don’t like E+ or Rarity, don’t know why, can’t be bothered working it out, it’s early Like Hum, fee like he’s town, he seems to have a good balance between engaged and having fun I guess DGK is playing his normal game, not posting much or doing much of consequence Don’t remember any significant contribution from any other players that leap out, I apologise if you’re reading this and I’ve forgotten you, maybe post better Time for tea
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 07:42
|
|
|
Hal posting exactly as he always does regardless of alignment
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 08:22
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Hal lurks as town too but he still looks like he's actually trying when he does show up. He's so low effort here, it comes across like he's just looking to coast through the day. I’m not sure I agree, it’s D1, I can’t recall a time when Hal ever really actively contributed to D1
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 08:44
|
|
|
Sandwolf posted:There are a couple people I’m actually willing to vote for today so I think I’ll pass on the Hal special today This too, there are way better reasons to vote for several players
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 08:45
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Sci going to bat for Hal so hard makes me want to vote Hal more lol “so hard” Yeah, I really went balls to the wall there, what a catch
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 09:31
|
|
|
I haven’t seen a good vote on DGK, they’re all bad
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 18:02
|
|
|
sandnavyguy posted:I didn’t disappear I went to sleep. And to say I’m lurking when I’ve been posting consistently is ridiculous. This post makes no sense to me. If you think they’re both scum, why are you voting for the one who has the fewest votes, as opposed to voting for DGK and making him vote leader?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
I feel like SNG’s vote for gridlocked is really self aware and he doesn’t want to look like he’s pushing DGK simply because he’s tied for votes with him
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
SNG doesn’t really think both are scum in that post
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
I would also vote for Gridlocked if push came to shove, but SNG is posting really scummy poo poo
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
And we should all vote for him
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
sandnavyguy posted:Yes I do, but I love the speculation posted as fact. Sorry I’m picking on your scum bro but maybe help them out in scumchat? When I was doing my GCSEs, my history teacher told me that pupils at my school had a particular disease, wherein they wrote “I believe” or “I think” when writing the conclusions to their essays. He said that the reader knows that the conclusions drawn in an essay are the opinions of the author, and that there is no need to state this. Basically, what I’m saying is that I learned an important lesson twenty years ago, and I am sharing it with you now: I don’t need to start every post I make with “In my opinion” or “Here is what I think:” because it is a given.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
sandnavyguy posted:A given yes, but when framed as you did, with only the conclusion sentence, the implication Int the same. Because, well, there’s usually an argument in essays, no? You claim I am asserting things “as fact” and it should be perfectly obvious that it is simply a strong expression of my opinion. The argument is made in the preceding posts. It is completely disingenuous to try to paint any posts I make as me trying to state things as fact, and you know it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 21:10
|
|
|
sandnavyguy posted:I gave you my case on you I read your case, and I found it extremely bad and reaching. Like REALLY reaching.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 21:14
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 17:41 |
|
|
sandnavyguy posted:Can you define why you think it’s a reach? You’ve cited a load of things that I don’t think are actually scummy, the worst example of which was posting a lot of times in a row to bump up post count, and you say that DGK has done them. I read his posts, and I don’t think he’s been performative, I don’t think he’s been lurking any more than usual or any more than other players, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with agreeing with other players without comment. I apologise if I’ve missed any of the strands of your bad case that you made to avoid looking like you were just bandwagoning, I am phoneposting while watching Star Trek and falling asleep.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 21:28
|
|