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CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!


Pillbug

The problem is hydrogen fuel cells are just basically a freebie for the fossil fuel industry since the majority of hydrogen is sourced from natural gas but then brings up the question okay if you don't Source it from natural gas where do you get it the obvious answer being electrolysis of water but you need a lot of power to do that and it would just make more sense to have an electric car at the end of the day versus using the power to do electrolysis.

At the end of the day we can no longer allow methane sourcing of energy that includes natural gas and any sort of hydrogen derived from natural gas we've got to cut that stuff out

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CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!


Pillbug

Maimgara posted:

This is a very America-centric point of view (quite natural on a american forum). In a european context, the production of H2 is increasingly happening with off-peak renevables (wind, mainly) and Norwegian/Swedish hydro. Yes, most H2 produced is brown H2, but this is changing.
Your point with "just having an BEV" is true for ordinary people - Im agreeing with you here. Fuel Cells are for those vehicles where extended charging breaks are hard/impossible to accomodate, such as metro busses, cabs, garbage trucks and the like. These vehicles typically return a depot, where a single fueling point can serve the entire fleet, trained mechanics can do service and the organisation have the resouces to get funding from development funds such as FCH-JU (again, an EU thing - CARB in California is the closest).
I think dismissing fuel cells because the current sourcing of H2 isnt CO2 neutral is misguided. Yes, people should buy a BEV - economics permitting - but for commercial transport BEVs are not great.

It would be far more efficient to charge batteries with those off peak renewables than produce H2. And given that the EU considers "Natural Gas" over Nuclear in the EU Green Energy summit, this is not a US Centric viewpoint.

And as long as the majority is methane originated H2, its not helping. Natural Gas is a key greenhouse gas and must go away. We cannot depend on Natural Gas sourced H2 if we want to fight Global Warming

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 15, 2020

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!


Pillbug

Gros Tarla posted:

Yeah I don't see the point of hydrogen either. One of the underestimated advantage of a BEV is the fact you can charge at home, which means I save that trip to the station all the time. Since I have a 400km range BEV, it works for me 98% of the time, winter included. The only time I would have to use a public station is for long trips which doesn't happen often enough to be a problem for me.

I see hydrogen cars as a stop gap until batteries improve, but I think PHEVs are a better stop gap since you don't need to deploy a whole infrastructure around it. Plus, where I live in Canada my power source is all Hydro and very very cheap so hydrogen doesn't make much sense here either.

At this point biodiesel and diesel-electric hybrids make more sense than hydrogen, its just a non-starter all together. We need to focus on electric vehicles and shifting our electrical generation away from fossil fuels faster.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 16, 2020

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!


Pillbug

MrOnBicycle posted:

It's still US centric (but in another way) in the fact that most of Europe is much more densely populated with focus on cities, where at home charging is pretty much impossible compared to the much more prevalent home ownership with a garage and/or drive that seems much more common in the US. In Europe I'd say that the EV is the least useful where it does the most good, i.e. in cities.

I still disagree entirely.

However, to caveat, I saw this article recently:

https://www.rechargenews.com/transi...lear/2-1-872014

Basically, France wants to take a portion of their nuclear fleet and use it to produce hydrogen from water. This could really be a bold step.

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